- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 03 2012,02:20) Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 03 2012,02:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2012,02:04) Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,08:59) You know what's uncanny about all this,
my grandparents are from Alexandria!
Born there, lived there, married there, had children there.
But nothing good can come out of Egypt, right?
Mike,But I came out of there,
and that spirit of Egypt is not in me
MikeWhy do you think that God called babylon now “Sodom and Egypt”?
His people, the Hebrews were freed from Egypt along time ago,
and Christ said he came to set the captives free?
and why did Christ say that many will say in that day,
Lord did we not heal in your name, and cast out spirits in your name etc etc,
and Christ says, depart from me, I never knew you
who is he speaking to?
believers or non believers?
Mike,
A perfect example, is that Pierre (God bless him)
asked the meaning of a simple scripture.
The reason he could not understand it was because the scripture in his version was incomplete. Words taken out.He could not of understood that scripture from another scripture, because it showed there were 3 that bare record in heaven, (recording our deeds etc)
God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth)
and three that bare witness in the Earth.
water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh (men who recieve the truth, and pronounce it – this truth witnesses on earth, through prophets, appostles, disciples, followers) and heaven witnesses our witness.
so witnessess in heaven,
and witnesses in earth,
both working in harmony,
for the love of God, and his son Jesus Christ, and for the truth.Quote (Devolution @ Sep. 01 2012,21:21) No Mike, it is the message we are discerning, look at it again, this time with your spiritual eyes.
I want YOU to tell me with YOUR OWN understanding, no other sources of reference, no outside help, just YOUR understanding alone, just like i will be doing, you, me, the bible, and our own understanding alone.
We should not need help understanding such basic matters.
Are you asking me to fault three translations for sticking with the words written in the oldest mss?Let me give you another example:
2 Kings 25:28
NET ©
He spoke kindly to him and gave him a more prestigious position than the other kings who were with him in Babylon.NIV ©
…the other kings who were with him in Babylon.NASB ©
…the kings who were with him in Babylon.NLT ©
…the other exiled kings in Babylon.MSG ©
…the other political prisoners held in Babylon.BBE ©
…the other kings who were with him in Babylon.NRSV ©
…the kings who were with him in Babylon.KJV
…the kings that were with him in Babylon;This statement is about King Jehoiachin of Israel. It is clear from the context that Evilmerodach started treating Jehoiachin better than the OTHER deposed kings who were being held prisoner in Babylon.
The word “OTHER” is not in the Hebrew text, although it is clearly implied.
Questions:
Shall we berate the versions that add the implied “OTHER” into their translations – even though the word is clearly implied?Or should we berate the KJV and other translations who stuck to the text and didn't add the word “OTHER” – although it is clearly implied?
Perhaps we should berate the NLT for adding the word “exiled”, even though it is clear that these were indeed “exiled kings”.
Or maybe we should berate the Message translation for switching the word “king” for the words “political prisoners” – which these deposed kings truly were.
I cannot possibly fault the KJV in the above case for sticking to the text written. But, since none of the other translations change the actual MEANING or TEACHING of the verse, neither can I fault them for trying to clarify. But TECHNICALLY, the KJV, NRSV, and NASB have all rendered 2 Kings 25:28 correctly – according to the Hebrew text. The other translations I listed, although they were only trying to clarify, and although their clarification did not change the meaning as far as I can tell, have still TECHNICALLY altered the text of God's written word, and are therefore TECHNICALLY wrong.
My answer is the same for Matthew 9:13. I believe that at some later time, a scribe ADDED the words “to repentence” to the Greek text, to CLARIFY the message. Since the MEANING and TEACHING of the verse have not been changed by this addition, I do not fault the KJV for including these words. But neither can I possibly fault the other three translations you listed for sticking to the original text – although “to repentence” is implied.
TECHNICALLY, the NIV, NASB, and NWT have rendered Matthew 9:13 correctly – according to the oldest mss. And TECHNICALLY, the KJV contains an alteration to the oldest mss – even though the alteration doens't change the meaning, and even though that alteration was most likely originally made as a simple clarification by someone with good intentions.
Shall we continue on to the next verse?
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:10) Mike So you believe anything men tell you?
Why don't you start looking at scripture now, instead of examining the ones who examine the book?
time is ticking….
journey,That post was nothing but what Ed calls “spin”. Here is what you are telling me, if I read between the lines:
Mike,
Don't believe the things that men tell you if those things disagree with the KJV translation. You need to start looking at nothing but the KJV, because that's the translation I like and believe.
But journey, since you never actually answered my question from before, I'm going to assume that you too find it odd that the extra words in 1 John 5:7 are only in the text of 5 Greek mss out of THOUSANDS of them – the earliest of which is from the 14th century.
Unlike you, who is happy with your “favorite translation” – wrong or right, I am the one who IS “examining the book”.
I suggest that YOU do the same………….. time is ticking after all, right?
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:12) Mike, But I came out of there,
and that spirit of Egypt is not in me
Hmmm…………..So that means there's a chance that certain mss came out of there without “that spirit” in them, right?
If Apollos came from there, and he was okay in the eyes of Paul, then why not Greek texts?
It seems that you and your grandparents have cemented what I said before: Just because it came from Egypt doesn't mean it is against God.
J42
Quote Mike,
A perfect example, is that Pierre (God bless him)
asked the meaning of a simple scripture.
The reason he could not understand it was because the scripture in his version was incomplete. Words taken out.
do not get me wrong ,I love to ask simple questions ,not because I do not have the higher knowledge but because many over look the basic and foundamental knowledge ,Quote He could not of understood that scripture from another scripture, because it showed there were 3 that bare record in heaven, (recording our deeds etc)
God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth)
and three that bare witness in the Earth.
water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh (men who recieve the truth, and pronounce it – this truth witnesses on earth, through prophets, appostles, disciples, followers) and heaven witnesses our witness.
so witnessess in heaven,
and witnesses in earth,
both working in harmony,
for the love of God, and his son Jesus Christ, and for the truth.now “HE ” is Pierre ,can not ,??? are you sure
? I always try to overlook the words that are not in harmony with all scriptures ,no matter what version I read in any language ,I do not agree with your version of events on;water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh ” we could look into it but your conclusion appears wrong to me in scriptures ,
Quote God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth) is this not all the same thing???
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:20) Mike Why do you think that God called babylon now “Sodom and Egypt”?
His people, the Hebrews were freed from Egypt along time ago,
and Christ said he came to set the captives free?
And where did Christ travel to set the captives free? Was is not Jerusalem and the surrounding areas?journey, there is more information in the Bible about people in Israel doing God dirty than there is about Egypt doing Him dirty.
I simply will never accept that a Greek ms is “bad”, just because we happened to find it in Egypt, which if you think about it, is the driest climate in the world, giving the mss a better chance of surviving.
Mike,
God delivers people out of any country, whoever he chooses.
Even some of Africa, Iran, Palenstine, Germany, and Israel
but there will be very few,
for MANY are called,
but few are chosen.
These are the ones that follow the lamb whersoever he goes,John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.He takes us out of captivity (lies, spiritual jail)
just like he did the hebrews, but they were really in captivity(slaves)
and the King did not want to let them go,
just like now, the King (Satan) does not want to let the adopted children go,
but he doesn't make it obvious,
he is so subtle,
He appears as an angel of light
but he puts the flock to sleep, and they feel they are at ease,
warm, full and satisfied,
but instead they are cold, naked, starving, and severely malnutritioned and they don't even know it
he speaks now of the spiritual “Sodom & Egypt”
because his people the Israelites, have gone back to Egypt (captivity, no truth, without a God leading them)
and the christian gentiles are willingly going to Egypt (into captivity)Shem and Japeth share the same tent.
Ham's tent is not the same
Egypt are the children of Ham
God would not let his holy word, and his recorded truth come out of there, a different tent
but many believe it, and they have made many rich, out of the treasures of egypt,
producing more bibles,
making profit in the name of God
producing counterfeits.
The egyptians are very good at making money on the side.Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:34) Mike,
A perfect example, is that Pierre (God bless him)
asked the meaning of a simple scripture.
The reason he could not understand it was because the scripture in his version was incomplete. Words taken out.
I think you may have misunderstood Pierre's question, journey. He often asks things that he already knows the answer to when he's trying to figure out if the OTHER person understands the teaching.And there are only two cases I can think of where words were taken out, and that is Matt 24:36 and Mark 13:32 – which are the same teaching.
The vast majority of alterations to the Greek text have occured by words being ADDED, not TAKEN OUT. 1 John 5:7 is a prime example of this.
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,10:15) God would not let his holy word, and his recorded truth come out of there, a different tent
Wasn't Apollos speaking God's holy word? Didn't he come “out of there”?Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,10:15) The egyptians are very good at making money on the side.
So are many Jews.journey, let's try to stick to the topic here. We are trying to find out if the KJV is the “Authentic and Only Translation that maintains the word of God accurately”.
All this talk about Egypt being bad is just talk, and really has no bearing on the point of this thread.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,01:32) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 02 2012,19:38) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 02 2012,10:34) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 02 2012,13:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 02 2012,02:59) Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 01 2012,17:50) See Mike, The evidence is clear that 1John 5:7 was added early on – as I have suggested.
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
Agreed Ed.
EDJQuote as I have suggested. was it the info you had or was it a revelation,
if it was an info you came across and share it ,this is a credit to you ,
other wise I haven a clue
Hi Pierre,Mike was saying (in essence) the I John 5:7 was added in
the 12th Century; I had suggested that it was really added early on.
Now devolution has provided the evidence that suggests that I was right.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjso it was an accident that you were right out of the blue because you had no clue of it right
Oh brotheredj
you never answer a straid question ,what can I do but try ,and try ,and try but no still not a answer
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2012,03:03) Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:12) Mike, But I came out of there,
and that spirit of Egypt is not in me
Hmmm…………..So that means there's a chance that certain mss came out of there without “that spirit” in them, right?
If Apollos came from there, and he was okay in the eyes of Paul, then why not Greek texts?
It seems that you and your grandparents have cemented what I said before: Just because it came from Egypt doesn't mean it is against God.
Mike,Apollos did not hold any “new” manuscripts in his hand, so he did not bring in another word watered down,
he was taught from the word already written,
same as myself for that fact
now you are getting personal with me?,
I don't accept what comes out of Alexandria,
concerning God's written scripturesQuote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,03:07) I do not agree with your version of events on;water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh ” we could look into it but your conclusion appears wrong to me in scriptures ,
God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth)
is this not all the same thing???
Pierre,
No it's not,
you had text missing.
Theres a witness in heaven, baring record (God, his Word, and truth)
and witnesses in the earth (declaring what comes from heaven is true)
what do you suggest, the water, blood and spirit is then?
does spirit contain water and blood?Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,09:39) edj you never answer a straid question ,what can I do but try ,and try ,and try but no still not a answer
Hi Pierre,I have fully explained why;
if you had been paying attention
you would have certainly understood.The “Textus Receptus” (received text) was based on
the “Majority Texts” that were being passed around by Early Christians.
The 'Johannine comma' must certainly been in most of them. (being added early on)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (journey42 @ Sep. 03 2012,10:10) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,03:07) I do not agree with your version of events on;water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh ” we could look into it but your conclusion appears wrong to me in scriptures ,
God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth)
is this not all the same thing???
Pierre,
No it's not,
you had text missing.
Theres a witness in heaven, baring record (God, his Word, and truth)
and witnesses in the earth (declaring what comes from heaven is true)
what do you suggest, the water, blood and spirit is then?
does spirit contain water and blood?Quote (Ed J @ April 22 2012,19:14) (What say you?) For 1John 5:7 to authentic: it should read… (Link) 1John 5:7 From heaven, there are three that born witness: “The Father”, “The Word” and “Jesus”.
עד (Joshua 22:34) Ed (Witness)
Hi Pierre and Georgie,SPIRIT – “The Father” – (John 4:24)
WATER – “The Word” – (Eph. 5:26)
BLOOD – “Jesus” – (Acts 20:28)Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 03 2012,03:13) Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 02 2012,09:20) Mike Why do you think that God called babylon now “Sodom and Egypt”?
His people, the Hebrews were freed from Egypt along time ago,
and Christ said he came to set the captives free?
And where did Christ travel to set the captives free? Was is not Jerusalem and the surrounding areas?journey, there is more information in the Bible about people in Israel doing God dirty than there is about Egypt doing Him dirty.
I simply will never accept that a Greek ms is “bad”, just because we happened to find it in Egypt, which if you think about it, is the driest climate in the world, giving the mss a better chance of surviving.
Mike,The captives, are not only Israelites.
Christ started with them, but they did not accept him,
The gospel then went out to the gentiles,
and the gentiles are being set free now
Free from false doctrines, strange beliefs, customs, etc
Israel will get their turn again,
but only after the fullness of the gentiles has come in,
And the Israelites will get to know the one they never knew (Christ) when Christ returns and not before.I know you will never accept anything other than what you rely on, that's your choice. You believe God's word was not preserved. Only a little bit here and a little bit there. I believe otherwise, every word of his is true.
Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 03 2012,17:10) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2012,03:07) I do not agree with your version of events on;water, blood, & spirit, which is flesh ” we could look into it but your conclusion appears wrong to me in scriptures ,
God, his Word (commandments) and his holy ghost (spirit of truth)
is this not all the same thing???
Pierre,
No it's not,
you had text missing.
Theres a witness in heaven, baring record (God, his Word, and truth)
and witnesses in the earth (declaring what comes from heaven is true)
what do you suggest, the water, blood and spirit is then?
does spirit contain water and blood?
J42I have difficulty to read you .it seems you do not understand what I am asking and saying ,I try again;
Quote Theres a witness in heaven, baring record (God, his Word, and truth)
and witnesses in the earth (declaring what comes from heaven is true)
what do you suggest, the water, blood and spirit is then?
does spirit contain water and blood?(God, his Word, and truth)
could you explain this to me ;God i know ,his word and truth or not ONE 1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
1Jn 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.
1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
1Jn 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
1Jn 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.Rev 12:11 They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.I have a hard time to see in those scriptures what you are claiming well in the order you say it that is .
terraricca,Sep. wrote:[/quote]
Hi PierreI don't quite understand your question?
Quote (God, his Word, and truth)
could you explain this to me ;God i know ,his word and truth or not ONE
All three are one. I don't get your question? All come out of God. All work together and bare record of everything.
There's God,
His Word bares record (his word is recorded as the law he sets, like a constitution, we obey, or disobey)
His truth. There is truth in his Word.
All three are one, from him, and have a job to do with authority to bare record . (but it's all God in the end)
All three are one.Edj
1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness because the Spirit is truth.
Ed it says above that the Spirit is truth.
Quote SPIRIT – “The Father” – (John 4:24)
WATER – “The Word” – (Eph. 5:26)
BLOOD – “Jesus” – (Acts 20:28)What is so hard to understand about Jesus coming in the flesh? This is basic stuff. He was born of Woman, but he had his Fathers Spirit in him (the same one promised to us if we keep God's commandments) The Spirit of God.
When babies are born they come out of blood and water. Ever seen a baby been born, and the fluids that come out with it? This is not high tech stuff?
God's Son came in the flesh,
he didn't come as a spirit,
and he didn't come as his Father,
he came as the Son of God.
He came as Flesh.Quote (journey42 @ Sep. 03 2012,19:17) Edj 1John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ, not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness because the Spirit is truth.
Ed it says above that the Spirit is truth.
Hi Georgie,John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
“the spirit is truth”
“thy word is truth”Thus: “The Word” is the “HolySpirit”. (Link)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
