Mike boll vs. martian

[mikeboll64]

Hi All,

This is my solution to my failed “Trinity Proofs that have been Refuted” thread.  It is a place where I can store acknowledgements from Keith, Jack, and others.  

The first thread was meant for easy access to these quotes, but I didn't think it through.  I put it in an open thread, and pretty soon I'll have to search through 500 pages to find the quote I'm looking for.

I would save them on my own computer, but this way others can also reference, copy and paste these quotes when needed.

Please do not post on this thread.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God

I said to Keith in the “Mike vs Francis” thread, page 118, 6th post from top:

Quote

If there are others called elohim who are neither God Almighty nor false gods, then JUST being called “elohim” is not proof of being God Almighty.

Keith responded:

Quote

Isn't that what Francis, D, and Jack and I have been saying…………. Everyone not just I are saying that just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God.

These are Keith's own words, and were backed up by those Keith mentioned above.  I don't think these guys should ever be able to bring up Isaiah 9:6, John 1:1, 1:18, 20:28, Titus 2:13, or Hebrews 1:8 ever again as trinity “proof texts”.  Keith's own words acknowledge that being called “god” is NOT proof that Jesus is God Almighty.  If he is true to his word, then none of those above scriptures are any kind of “proof” that Jesus IS God Almighty, and they are only brought up over and over again as DIVERSIONS.  And they MUST simply be diversions, because the only thing they prove is that Jesus may have been called “god”.  And by Keith's own words, that is NOT proof that he is God Almighty.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Mike, why don't you call Jesus your god?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,09:43)

But for some reason I never hear you call him your god. All you ever do is claim that he is not god. What gives Mike?

I have told you this many times, Keith.  This time I will post it in my new thread about points that need not be brought up again, just so we're all sure about my DIRECT and COMPLETE answer to your point.  That way, you never need to bring this point up again, right?  

Keith, if the word “god” meant to us today what it meant to the people of Biblical times, I would gladly call Jesus “my god”.  But it doesn't.  Today, we wouldn't refer to “Judge Judy” as “God Judy”.  Today we wouldn't call the king of a country the “god” of that country.  Today, if an angel brought us a message from God, we would tell people that an angel appeared to us.  We would not tell them that “God” appeared to us.

But this is now, and that was then.  Things were different then.  Back then, they DID call judges “gods”.  They DID call kings “gods”.  They DID call angels “gods”.  And back then, if someone called Jesus “god”, it would have been understood (ESPECIALLY by the Jews, who were STRICTLY monotheistic), that Jesus was being called a “leader” or “judge” or “ruler” or “mighty one” or “a vice regent of God”.

So back to your points:

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,09:43)

But for some reason I never hear you call him your god.

This is because of the way we today understand the word “god”, as opposed to the way people in Biblical times understood the words “el”, “elohim” and “theos”.  I do not want to confuse people by calling Jesus by the title of “god”, and having them think I am calling him the only true God.  If I lived in the 1st century A.D., I would happily tell everyone that Jesus was my god.  But I live in the 21st century A.D., and so I will say he is my Lord, my King, my Ruler, and my Savior………….but I will not say he is “my god”, because of the confusion it would create.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,09:43)

All you ever do is claim that he is not god.

What I do is SCRIPTURALLY show you every day that Jesus is not “God Almighty”.  I understand that he is the only begotten Son of the only true God.  I understand that he is the second most powerful being in existence.  I understand that he is my Lord and my King, and all knees will bow to him.  And knowing what WE both know about the words “elohim” and “theos”, I'm not really claiming that Jesus is not “A god”, or “A mighty one”.  I'm claiming that he is not THE ALMIGHTY ONE.

Keith, do you understand now?

[mikeboll64]

But being called “god” CAN mean that one is God Almighty, right?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2011,09:43)

you have admitted that “being called God can mean that one is God“.

Yes Keith, I said that.  And seeing how YHVH is called “god” many times in scripture, I'd say it goes without saying, right?   Deborah being called “god” doesn't mean she is NOT God, but it doesn't mean she IS, right?  Same with Moses, certain angels, and the kings referred to in Psalm 45:6 and 138:1, right?

So we have established that being called “god” doesn't mean you are NOT God Almighty, but it sure as the gospel doesn't mean you ARE God Almighty.  There is no need to discuss this any further.  Just as there is no need to discuss the scriptures where Jesus is called by the title of “god” any further, because they only prove that Jesus was called by a title that many others in scripture were also called by.  And by your own words, “just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God.”  This point has been SOLIDLY established and agreed upon by BOTH OF US, so let's stop circling around John 1:1, 1:18, 20:28, Titus 2:13 and Hebrews 1:8……………and move on to something that really DOES teach us that Jesus is God Almighty, okay?  

[mikeboll64]

“Pais” in reference to Jesus DOES mean “SERVANT”

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Feb. 25 2011,10:14)

The book of Acts says that God exalted His servant Jesus. It does NOT say that Jesus remained servant after He was exalted.

Thank you Jack.  I will now add this to my thread of things I don't need to discuss with you any further.  You have admitted that the word IS properly translated as SERVANT.

I agree that Acts 3:26 and 4:27 speak of Jesus on the earth.  But Acts 3:13 and 4:30 specifically speak of the raised and exalted Jesus as still a SERVANT.

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.
When was Jesus “glorified”?  Wasn't it after he was exalted to God's right hand?  Now I understand that you read this to say that once God glorified His servant, he ceased to be a servant.  But there are no words in this scripture to even imply that, let alone PROVE it.

Acts 4:30
Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

This one is more cut and dry.  This passage shows how these disciples not only pray to God Himself, saying, “Sovereign Lord, you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them”, but it also shows that they offer their prayer TO God Himself, but “through the name of your holy servant Jesus”.

This prayer was made way after Jesus had been exalted and glorified, yet they STILL refer to him as “your holy SERVANT”.

Enough said?

[mikeboll64]

Is Jesus the Son of our ONE true living God?

From “attn wj”, page 8:

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2011)

2.  Keith, we both agree that there is only one true LIVING GOD.  Is Jesus the Son OF this one true LIVING GOD?  YES or NO?

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 05 2011)

Yes.

[mikeboll64]

SF's acknowledgement that he and Francis also agree with Keith's statement, “just because Jesus is called God does not mean he is God”.

David,
basically what WJ said is basically what Francis said in his debate with Mike.

The Interpretation of Elohim or Theos always depends on Context.  
Which we have always have argued.

[mikeboll64]

Are there elohim mentioned in scripture who are neither “God Almighty” nor “false gods”?

From Here, 6th post.

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,00:07)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2011,05:31) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2011,19:31) Are there elohim mentioned in scripture who are neither “God Almighty” nor “false gods”? Mike Yes Thanks Keith, But I already have your answer.  You are the one who has HONESTLY admitted the only thing I ever set out to prove so far.

[mikeboll64]

God is not a personal name – Keith

Keith said this Here, 6th post.

“God is not a name is it t8?”

[mikeboll64]

Jack, this is a closed debate thread. You're trespassing. I've deleted two posts already. Please stop posting here. Thanks,
mike

[mikeboll64]

From the Freak Greek thread, page 56, 1st post:

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2011,13:04)

According to this Mike, if you look at the “grammatical” use of “theos” by John in every place outside of John 1:1 and John 1:18 where the singular form of the word is used it is always referring to the “One True God”. That means that 250 times out of 252 times John uses the word in the singular form he is referring to the “One True God”. That should tell you something.

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