Mike and jody only

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July 22, 2013 at 3:49 am#351292

Jodi Lee

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2013,05:43)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 02 2013,23:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 27 2013,11:18)

Add that to Galatians 1:1 and 1:11, where Paul makes it clear that his gospel didn't come from any human being (anthropos), but from Jesus Christ.

Add that to 1 Corinthians 15:45 and 15:50, where Paul made it clear Jesus became a spirit, and that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

Add that to Jesus' own teaching to Nicodemus in John 3 that flesh can neither see nor enter the kingdom of heaven, and therefore, to enter, one needs to be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh – namely, water and spirit.

Add all of those things (there are also more) to our God-given common sense that should tell us that Jesus is not the only flesh being living in the SPIRITUAL realm of heaven.

Jodi, we should seriously discuss some of these scriptures. We have discussed Heb 5:7, and concluded that you had to ADD the word “weak” into the text for your understanding to be realized. In my eyes, that is going too far to make a scripture teach what you WANT it to teach.

So now let's talk about Galatians 1. Or John 3. Or 1 Cor 15. Pick one and let's discuss it.

The Gospel does not come from a human being it comes from YHWH. Jesus is a deliverer of God's message, and he himself is God's message, being the man that fulfilled the Promise that was made before time began.

Jesus Christ is STILL a human being, he is the “coming son of man”!

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man is to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay every man for what he has done.

Matthew 19:28
Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Flesh and bones can inherit the kingdom! The very fruit of David's loins sits on the throne! You cannot rely on flesh and blood to save you, only the Spirit of YHWH can cause you to inherit the kingdom of God! Those that walk according to the flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God! You must be baptized with the Holy Spirit!

Jodi,

Your posts seems to avoid the actual point.

1. Did Paul clearly say that flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God? YES or NO?

2. Did Jesus clearly say that flesh can neither SEE nor ENTER the kingdom of heaven? YES or NO?

3. Did Paul receive his gospel directly from Jesus Christ? YES or NO?

4. Did he later testify that he did NOT receive his gospel from any HUMAN BEING, but from Jesus Christ? YES or NO?

5. Did Paul clearly say that Jesus became a SPIRIT? YES or NO?

These are the points I would like addressed in a DIRECT manner – if you don't mind.

(Also, read John 3, where Jesus doesn't distinguish between “flesh and blood” or “flesh and bone” – as if there is some difference. Jesus mentions only “flesh” – period. And he teaches that we must be born again of something OTHER THAN flesh in order to see, or enter the kingdom of heaven.)

1.NO, Paul said Flesh AND BLOOD cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Paul also said that flesh and blood cannot reveal God and His Kingdom of eternal life, the Spirit is what causes man to inherit the kingdom.

2. NO, to enter into the kingdom one must deny the flesh and walk according to the Spirit. God gives His Spirit and causes people to walk in his ways, it is the Spirit of God that leads flesh into the kingdom of God, flesh cannot lead us into the kingdom.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Matthew 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Romans 7:6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8: 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Flesh that is BORN of the Spirit inherits the kingdom of God, and is given immortal flesh as Jesus was.

3. Yes, Jesus received the gospel by word from Jesus Christ

4. Yes, Paul said that he did not receive the gospel from a human being, he of course would be referring to God. As High Priest and Mediator to God, Jesus Christ the human being, received the gospel from his Father.

As already stated, Jesus is STILL referred to as the SON of MAN, the bible clearly tells us that he is STILL a HUMAN BEING! He is STILL flesh as God had promised of the loins or flesh of David would the Christ be raised to sit on God's throne!

Acts 7:56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

Ephesians 4:13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;

Acts 2:30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne,

5. NO, Paul clearly said that Jesus became a life giving spirit, not that he became a spirit being. These are completely different things. The spirit of Jesus followed the Spirit of God. The spirit of Jesus learned obedience and thus was perfected. The perfected spirit of Jesus brings us life! To have the mind or spirit of Christ is the path to enter the kingdom. Paul clearly speaks of the RESURRECTION of
Jesus and him receiving glory, honor and immortality at that time, not some other time later.

July 22, 2013 at 6:32 pm#351320

Jodi Lee

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 22 2013,12:21)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 21 2013,15:36)

Verse 45 does not say that Jesus became a spirit being, it says he became a life giving spirit. To be spiritually mind united with the spirit in Christ causes you to inherit the kingdom of God.

So how about the unclean spirits that Jesus and the disciples drove out of humans? Were they spirit BEINGS?

How about when Paul says “angels are ministering spirits”. Doesn't he mean they are spirit BEINGS who minister to humans?

The fact is that the word “spirit” often refers to a spirit BEING in scripture, Jodi. Just like the word “human” most often refers to a human BEING. Do you agree with this?

Mike,

First of all the Greek word for spirit “pneu'ma” does not represent a spirit being!

I am quite certain that our definitions of “spirit” are quite different. Unlike most of Christianity, I do not believe in combining scripture with the fantasies of Greek Mythology that is rooted in imagination and ignorance.

1 Corinthians 15 is speaking of Jesus when he was raised from the dead does it not? It speaks of the CHANGE occurring when Jesus was raised from the dead, does it not? Please look at the chapter again, and answer these questions!!

12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty….21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.

By man does the resurrection from the dead come, through a man all shall be made alive, this is Jesus being a life giving spirit.

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?”

With what body was Christ raised with?

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Jesus was raised in incorruption, power and glory. He wasn't then afterwards changed again into something else!! 1 Corinthians 15 is specifically talking about the BODY Jesus was raised with!!

Show me how it is NOT!!

45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual.

Sorry Mike, this scripture is still referring to the body Jesus was raised from the dead with!

1 Corinthians 15 is about when Jesus was raised from the dead, it is not about what he later turned into.

52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Jesus was CHANGED and received his glory, power and immortality WHEN he was raised from the dead.

Definition
Adam = “the red earth”

Adam, the first man, the parent of the whole human family

45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam [is] for a life-giving spirit,

Jesus Christ is called the last ADAM, he is the firstborn of the dead OF HUMAN BEINGS!!

July 22, 2013 at 7:27 pm#351321

Jodi Lee

Participant

Mike,

This is the FACT, Jesus was raised with flesh and bones, and scripture tells us that is WHEN he received his glory, power and immortality.

Here is another fact, Paul tells us repeatedly that to follow the flesh you will die, but if you follow the Spirit you will live.

Taking these two facts from Paul I can understand what is meant when he said flesh and blood does not inherit the kingdom. I am not going to ignore the fact of scripture when I want understand another scripture. Giving ALL of Paul's words, it would be obvious to me that he was NOT saying that in God's kingdom people will not be flesh and bones, that would MAKE PAUL a blabbing LIAR if I were to understand it that way!!

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 28 And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went : and he made as though he would have gone further. 29 But they constrained him, saying , Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent . And he went in to tarry with them. 30 And it came to pass , as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake , and gave to them. 31 And their eyes were opened , and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. 32 And they said one to another , Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? 33 And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together , and them that were with them, 34 Saying , The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon. 35 And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread. 36 And as they thus spake , Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. 37 But they were terrified and affrighted , and supposed that they had seen a spirit. 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled ? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see ; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have . 40 And when he had thus spoken , he shewed them his hands and his feet. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered , he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb . 43 And he took it, and did eat before them. 44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled , which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 46 And said unto them, Thus it is written , and thus it behoved Christ to suffer , and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold , I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. 50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. 51 And it came to pass , while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. 52 And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy: 53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Mike, witnesses saw Jesus in HIS GLORY, he went up to heaven in that SAME glory, and he sits at God's right hand IN THAT GLORY, the glory of a MAN RAISED from the dead given immortality.

Romans 1:4
And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

Romans 6:5 KJV
For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

1 Peter 1:3 KJV
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It is BY HIS RESURRECTION, that is what the scriptures repeatedly state. This is the TRUE CHRIST, the MAN who rose from the dead and was given immortal flesh.

July 23, 2013 at 12:35 am#351352