- This topic is empty.
- Posts
To All,
The following provides conclusive evidence that men prayed to Jesus in the book of acts. Brother Nick has explained away 1 John 5:13-15. But can he explain away all of these?Stephen, Acts 7:59-60: And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Saul, 9:4-6: And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
Ananias, 9:10-15: Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
Stephen: He asked Jesus to do two things: to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him.
Saul: He fell to the ground trembling before Jesus and asked Him what He wanted him to do.
Ananias: He discoursed with Jesus questioning His will concerning Saul but finally obeyed. Jesus told Ananias that Saul was “praying.” It was Jesus to whom Saul was praying.
Okay brother Nick. Do your sleight of hand thing.
thinker
Hi TT,
Stephen saw his master with God and asked to be rejoined with him. Is that how you think normal prayer goes?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,11:35) Hi TT,
Stephen saw his master with God and asked to be rejoined with him. Is that how you think normal prayer goes?
Your sleight of hand don't work Nick. Stephen spoke to Jesus specifically. He asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him. You're in denial Nick.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,11:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,11:35) Hi TT,
Stephen saw his master with God and asked to be rejoined with him. Is that how you think normal prayer goes?
Your sleight of hand don't work Nick. Stephen spoke to Jesus specifically. He asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him. You're in denial Nick.thinker
trinitarians also pray to Mary and other saints so what is your point?Nontrinitarians also have said similar things as stephen in regards to Moses.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,11:58) Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,11:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,11:35) Hi TT,
Stephen saw his master with God and asked to be rejoined with him. Is that how you think normal prayer goes?
Your sleight of hand don't work Nick. Stephen spoke to Jesus specifically. He asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him. You're in denial Nick.thinker
trinitarians also pray to Mary and other saints so what is your point?Nontrinitarians also have said similar things as stephen in regards to Moses.
Misrepresentation! Not all trinitarians pray to Mary and other saints. Did Stephen pray to Jesus or not?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,13:32) Hi TT,
And so would you if you saw the Lord Jesus WITH GOD
Jesus is with God whether you see Him there or not. Are you saying that if you see Him next to God then He is there and if you don't see Him next to God He is not there? Are you saying that if you see Him there He is worthy of your prayers and if you don't see Him there He is not?Give up your Arian traditions Nick. Your sleight of hand has been disovered.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,12:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 24 2009,11:58) Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,11:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,11:35) Hi TT,
Stephen saw his master with God and asked to be rejoined with him. Is that how you think normal prayer goes?
Your sleight of hand don't work Nick. Stephen spoke to Jesus specifically. He asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him. You're in denial Nick.thinker
trinitarians also pray to Mary and other saints so what is your point?Nontrinitarians also have said similar things as stephen in regards to Moses.
Misrepresentation! Not all trinitarians pray to Mary and other saints. Did Stephen pray to Jesus or not?thinker
so are you saying that if a man speaks of someone departed in a present context they are praying?Hi TT,
We preach what is written and not the traditions of men.
Should you not or does Lordship to you not include obedience to 2 Jn 9?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,22:58) Hi TT,
You speak with those you see.
He saw the Lord.
You don't see the Father. So how do you speak with Him?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 25 2009,03:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,22:58) Hi TT,
You speak with those you see.
He saw the Lord.
You don't see the Father. So how do you speak with Him?thinker
very good pointQuote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,11:26) To All,
The following provides conclusive evidence that men prayed to Jesus in the book of acts. Brother Nick has explained away 1 John 5:13-15. But can he explain away all of these?Stephen, Acts 7:59-60: And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Saul, 9:4-6: And falling to the ground he heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” And he said, “Who are you, Lord?” And he said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. But rise and enter the city, and you will be told what you are to do.”
Ananias, 9:10-15: Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias. The Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” And the Lord said to him, “Rise and go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man of Tarsus named Saul, for behold, he is praying, and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight.” But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. And here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on your name.” But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
Stephen: He asked Jesus to do two things: to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him.
Saul: He fell to the ground trembling before Jesus and asked Him what He wanted him to do.
Ananias: He discoursed with Jesus questioning His will concerning Saul but finally obeyed. Jesus told Ananias that Saul was “praying.” It was Jesus to whom Saul was praying.
Okay brother Nick. Do your sleight of hand thing.
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus is at the right hand of the Father, and so, yes it is possible to speak to him, and in fact he hears our prayer that we pray to the Father, but he said this relative to prayer:
Quote Luk 11:1 ¶ And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
Luk 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name….”And so, I pray to his God and my God and his Father and my Father.
Love in Christ,
MartyThinker……….Jesus said to Prey like this, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN (do you see Jesus who is in heaven here), and again He told His disciples when they pray to go in their closet and shut the door and (YOUR FATHER WHO SEES IN SECRETE WILL REWARD YOU OPENLY. Another thing who was Jesus our example praying to when He was on earth, who did he offer up prayer to, was it not the (ONE) who could save Him. Jesus is the (DOOR), a door is (NOT) the OBJECT it is the access to the OBJECT, the OBJECT is GOD the Father. Pray to GOD the FATHER and if you ask in the name of Christ that is fine also, But you are praying to the FATHER as Jesus did. IMO
much peace and love………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,08:57) Thinker……….Jesus said to Prey like this, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN (do you see Jesus who is in heaven here), and again He told His disciples when they pray to go in their closet and shut the door and (YOUR FATHER WHO SEES IN SECRETE WILL REWARD YOU OPENLY. Another thing who was Jesus our example praying to when He was on earth, who did he offer up prayer to, was it not the (ONE) who could save Him. Jesus is the (DOOR), a door is (NOT) the OBJECT it is the access to the OBJECT, the OBJECT is GOD the Father. Pray to GOD the FATHER and if you ask in the name of Christ that is fine also, But you are praying to the FATHER as Jesus did. IMO much peace and love………………………gene
Awesome Post once again, Gene!
Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,08:57) Thinker……….Jesus said to Prey like this, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN (do you see Jesus who is in heaven here), and again He told His disciples when they pray to go in their closet and shut the door and (YOUR FATHER WHO SEES IN SECRETE WILL REWARD YOU OPENLY. Another thing who was Jesus our example praying to when He was on earth, who did he offer up prayer to, was it not the (ONE) who could save Him. Jesus is the (DOOR), a door is (NOT) the OBJECT it is the access to the OBJECT, the OBJECT is GOD the Father. Pray to GOD the FATHER and if you ask in the name of Christ that is fine also, But you are praying to the FATHER as Jesus did. IMO much peace and love………………………gene
Gene,
Jesus told HIS DISCIPLES to pray that way. He was not talking to us. He told THEM to pray for the kingdom to come. But Christians today don't need to ask for the kingdom to come because it is here.Jesus is in heaven now and has ALL authority. We may therefore pray to Him directly. Stephen did and so did Saul and Ananias. John told us that if we ask anything of the Son of God that is according to HIS will He will give it to us (1 John 5:13-15). He has inherited ALL THINGS. So He has the authority to give anything to us if we ask Him.
Don't take statements that Jesus made before He was exalted and apply them to us today. In the new covenant age we may pray to the Father or the Son. The old covenant age still existed when Jesus taught His disciples to pray. Please don't bind me to your old covenant stuff.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,07:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2009,22:58) Hi TT,
You speak with those you see.
He saw the Lord.
You don't see the Father. So how do you speak with Him?thinker
Thinker,With this statement you put Nick in a box. Good work. 😛
TC27
Quote (thethinker @ July 25 2009,11:56) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,08:57) Thinker……….Jesus said to Prey like this, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN (do you see Jesus who is in heaven here), and again He told His disciples when they pray to go in their closet and shut the door and (YOUR FATHER WHO SEES IN SECRETE WILL REWARD YOU OPENLY. Another thing who was Jesus our example praying to when He was on earth, who did he offer up prayer to, was it not the (ONE) who could save Him. Jesus is the (DOOR), a door is (NOT) the OBJECT it is the access to the OBJECT, the OBJECT is GOD the Father. Pray to GOD the FATHER and if you ask in the name of Christ that is fine also, But you are praying to the FATHER as Jesus did. IMO much peace and love………………………gene
Gene,
Jesus told HIS DISCIPLES to pray that way. He was not talking to us. He told THEM to pray for the kingdom to come. But Christians today don't need to ask for the kingdom to come because it is here.Jesus is in heaven now and has ALL authority. We may therefore pray to Him directly. Stephen did and so did Saul and Ananias. John told us that if we ask anything of the Son of God that is according to HIS will He will give it to us (1 John 5:13-15). He has inherited ALL THINGS. So He has the authority to give anything to us if we ask Him.
Don't take statements that Jesus made before He was exalted and apply them to us today. In the new covenant age we may pray to the Father or the Son. The old covenant age still existed when Jesus taught His disciples to pray. Please don't bind me to your old covenant stuff.
thinker
So Jesus is part of the OLD covenant?So can you show us where Jesus told his disciples to pray another way or where he gave them future instructions for the “NEW AGE” Doctrine you believe in.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 25 2009,13:41) Quote (thethinker @ July 25 2009,11:56) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,08:57) Thinker……….Jesus said to Prey like this, OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN (do you see Jesus who is in heaven here), and again He told His disciples when they pray to go in their closet and shut the door and (YOUR FATHER WHO SEES IN SECRETE WILL REWARD YOU OPENLY. Another thing who was Jesus our example praying to when He was on earth, who did he offer up prayer to, was it not the (ONE) who could save Him. Jesus is the (DOOR), a door is (NOT) the OBJECT it is the access to the OBJECT, the OBJECT is GOD the Father. Pray to GOD the FATHER and if you ask in the name of Christ that is fine also, But you are praying to the FATHER as Jesus did. IMO much peace and love………………………gene
Gene,
Jesus told HIS DISCIPLES to pray that way. He was not talking to us. He told THEM to pray for the kingdom to come. But Christians today don't need to ask for the kingdom to come because it is here.Jesus is in heaven now and has ALL authority. We may therefore pray to Him directly. Stephen did and so did Saul and Ananias. John told us that if we ask anything of the Son of God that is according to HIS will He will give it to us (1 John 5:13-15). He has inherited ALL THINGS. So He has the authority to give anything to us if we ask Him.
Don't take statements that Jesus made before He was exalted and apply them to us today. In the new covenant age we may pray to the Father or the Son. The old covenant age still existed when Jesus taught His disciples to pray. Please don't bind me to your old covenant stuff.
thinker
So Jesus is part of the OLD covenant?So can you show us where Jesus told his disciples to pray another way or where he gave them future instructions for the “NEW AGE” Doctrine you believe in.
Jesus told His disciples that He had many more things to say to them that would be revealed to them by the Holy spirit. The new instructions came to them through the Holy Spirit and we have those instructions in their writings. For instance, 1 John 5:13-15 CLEARLY says that we may ask for things of the Son of God if it be according to His will,Quote I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests that we have asked of him. There it is! And Stephen is an example. He asked Jesus to receive his spirit and to forgive those who stoned him. It is clear that a change was taking place with the coming of the kingdom and the new covenant age. But anti-trinitarians and even many trinitarians are still imposing old covenant stuff like the “Lord's prayer” on people today. But hebrews says that we are to LEAVE the elementary teachings of Christ. Why? Because Christ's teachings were old covenant,
Quote Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits (Hebrews 6:1-3) There it is! They were commanded to LEAVE the teachings of Christ and go on to maturity. When it comes time to cite the “Lord's prayer” in my church I do not participate. I am not suppsed to ask for the kingdom to come. It is here! The kingdom arrived when Jesus was exalted. I am not supposed to ask for forgivensss. I have been forgiven unconditionally. I am not supposed to pray “our Father.” For one thing I am not Jewish! And I may pray to Jesus Himself (1 John 5:13-15). Stephen did (Acts 7:59-60).
thinker
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
