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It shouldn't surprise you that God spoke to me. He spoke to many people. The Bible is full of such occasions. Look at Noah for example. God gave him the plans for the world's first ever boat!
Quote (Oxy @ July 04 2010,19:23) It shouldn't surprise you that God spoke to me. He spoke to many people. The Bible is full of such occasions. Look at Noah for example. God gave him the plans for the world's first ever boat!
Hi Oxy,The only thing I find 'surprising' is your FEAR to ask in my behalf!
1John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear:
because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.Quote (Oxy @ July 04 2010,19:20) Thanks for the love Ed. Does God speak to you? It seems to me that He doesn't, which makes me wonder if you've received the Holy Spirit. You call me an unstable schizophrenic psychotic, but God has directed my path over the last 32 years. He has directed my path regarding my family, my work, my church, in fact every aspect of my life. The website I built was in obedience to Him. I woke early one Saturday morning and the first thing I was aware of was Him saying to me “Today we will build a website, and this is how it will be.” I was so excited I couldn't wait to get started. He showed me what to do and the design He wanted step by step. Now, rather than dispute that God speaks to me, what if you were to say to yourself, if Oxy is right, I want to hear from God too. It is possible.. in fact more than that, it's God's desire that you know His voice. How else will you know what He wants from you?
Hi Oxy,Why are you putting 'spin' on what I said? Here's the verses…
1 Thessalonians 5:20-22 Despise not prophesyings.
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
Abstain from all appearance of evil.I simply requested you ask God what he thought of me,
but for some strange reason you refuse? If he doesn't talk to you
(as is your assertion), then I simply explained why I would be wasting my time,
reading 'your material' then would be of no value whatsoever; understand the alternative?
But on the other hand if you would ask Him in my behalf, then I would know for certain by your response!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo all,
I view the phrase “name of” as being equivalent to the phrase “by the authority of” and Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit have the same authority.
Both the authority of Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from God and thus I conclude they have the same authority.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Quote (david @ May 09 2010,09:41) “. . . Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity.”–WJ The fact that 3 were mentioned in no way proves anything other than the fact that some can count to 3!
QUESTION 1: If these three are a trinity, would it not be a disrespect of immense magnitude to continually count them as only 2?
QUESTION 2: If 3 being mentioned together once proves something, what does 2 being mentioned together numerous times prove? (Think about the reason that either proves anything)
A few examples:
1 CORINTHIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
2 CORINTHIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
GALATIANS 1:3
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
EPHESIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
PHILIPPIANS 1:2
“May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father and [the] Lord Jesus Christ.”
COLOSSIANS 1:2
“to the holy ones and faithful brothers in union with Christ at Co·lośsae: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from God our Father.”
1 TIMOTHY 1:2
“to Timothy, a genuine child in the faith: May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
2 TIMOTHY 1:2
“May there be undeserved kindness, mercy, peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.”
TITUS 1:4
“May there be undeserved kindness and peace from God [the] Father and Christ Jesus our Savior.”The holy spirit is always left out of these greetings— an unbelievable and UNEXPLAINABLE OVERSIGHT if it were indeed a person or entity coequal with God the Father and Christ!
QUESTION 3: If “the holy spirit” were an integral and personal part of a triune Godhead, then why does “He” not send “His” personal greetings as well? (Is he not conscious of us or does he just not care to send a greeting?)
QUESTION 4: If there were a third person involved, wouldn’t Paul have surely known about it and included “Him” in his greetings to the congregations? (What does it mean that Paul was unaware of the holy spirit being part of a triune God?)
QUESTION 5: If Paul actually believed the holy spirit was part of a triune God, would it not have been insubordination of the highest level to continually ignore “him?”
QUESTION 6: In light of the multitude of times Jehovah and Jesus are mentions as two, what can we make of the one time that “the holy spirit” is also mentioned?
QUESTION 7: Where JAMES, PETER, and JOHN also unaware of the trinity or were they just being disrespectful to part of the triune God? (They also have greetings with only God and Jesus mentioned. James 1:1; 1 John 1:3; 2 Pet 1:2) Also, does mentioning these 3 together prove anything?
QUESTION 8: Yes, Mat 28:19 mentions 3, but why is it that in none of Paul's writings, other than 2 Cor 13:14, is the holy spirit mentioned along with God and Jesus? (Here, too, God's Spirit is not spoken of as a person. Notice that our fellowship is of the Holy Spirit, not with the holy spirit.)
QUESTION 9: 1 John 1:3 tells us, “truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.” If the holy spirit is part of the “godhead,” how could John leave it out of this?
QUESTION 10: Paul states that “there is one God, the Father, . . . and one Lord Jesus Christ . . .” (1 Cor 8:6). He makes no mention of the holy spirit as a divine person, ever. Simply put, why didn't Paul know the holy spirit was part of the trinity?
David
Thanks for your post, you bring up very valid points and questions.Right along the same lines, is another question.
If this was an important commandment from Jesus Christ to the apostles and disciples, why is there no record in the scripture of it ever being carried out?
There are plenty of other commandments that Jesus spoke that are recorded to have carried out. Why not this one?
Not once it there a record of anyone baptizing in the name of the Father, the son, and the holy ghost.
The disciples did heal the sick, cast out devils, speak in tongues, and if they accidentally were bit by a serpent,Paul in Acts, they were not affected. They had received freely, they freely gave.
The omission of any record of that phrase in M 28:19, has led some to believe that that phrase is an erroneous addition to the text. Evidently, there are some early Christian writers who quote M 28:19 without the threee person phrase. Why not? Because they had earlier manuscripts that did not contain those words. I personally am comfortable with the idea that those words were added later by some “well intentioned, but erroneous and presumptous scribe”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 09 2010,13:35) Hi David, Great post!
I agree with you that it will probably not be one of the ones WJ “picks and chooses” to answer. 
I have one more point to add, if I may:
Why in New Jerusalem will there only be two thrones for members of the godhead? There is one for the Father and one for the Son. Where is the throne of the third equal member of the godhead?
peace and love,
mike
You likewise bring up a great lesson. Why not three thrones instead of two?Along these lines, Jesus Christ is referred to in several places to have been raised up and sat at the right hand of the throne of God.
Trinitarians like to say that supports their theory that JC is God.
So I point out that JC is sitting at the right hand of the throne of God.
If JC is God, why is he not sitting in God's throne?
Answer: because God is sitting in God's throne, Jesus Christ is sitting in a throne at the right hand of the throne of God.
Jesus C. is not God, that is why he is not sitting on God's throne.
What is one of the significant merits of the throne that JC is sitting in?
Did not God promise David that God would supply a man, an offspring of David, that would sit in the throne of David forever?
yes, He did.
Jesus Christ is that man.Quote (karmarie @ May 09 2010,14:02) Thankyou David and Mike, that was something I was having trouble understanding myself, you explained it well! So what is the holy Spirit? Why do the early church writtings (anti nicene) describe the Holy Spirit (example one Father one Son and one Holy Spirit).. need to look more into this.
What is, or who is, the Holy Spirit?
From teachers and such, the answer is two fold.
First, scriptures teach that God is holy and it also teaches that God is spirit, John 4:24. There fore God is both holy and spirit.
Now that we have these two concepts side by side: Why would anyone be surprised if another name God chooses to make himself known by is, the Holy Spirit?Let us also consider the fact that scripture, in the Greek, does not always use the article “the” in front of the two words, holy spirit. Why not? Because God, the Holy Spirit, did not want it there. Why not? Because the Holy Spirit is God, holy spirit is something else. Capitalization is not in the Greek, so translators added capitalization, sometimes right, sometimes wrong.
Scripture speaks of the giving of the Holy Ghost. Is God giving Himself or is he giving of himself. The Holy Spirit is God, God gives us of Himself. What does He give? He gives the gift of holy spirit. The gift is a what, the Giver is a who.
A carpenter gives of himself, one thing he might give is carpentry work. A minister gives of himself, what does he give? The word of God that he lives. God gives of himself, He gives what He is. He gives the gift of holy spirit. Eternal life, the potential for living a powerful, godly life.See Luke 11:13, If ye, then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask [demand, in the Greek] him?
The Giver, God, our Heavenly Father, gives of himself, what does He give? the gift of holy spirit.
Another scripture which makes a clear distinction between the Giver, who is God, the Holy Spirit, and the gift, holy spirit is John 7:39. Which from the KJV reads, “(But this spake he of the spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” The words, the Holy Ghost, in the Greek are, holy spirit, ie, the gift of holy spirit from the Giver, the Holy Spirit, God.
There are tons more that the scriptures teach on this, but, for me to type out others' work is not reasonable. I trust that this will at least begin to clarify your thoughts on this subject.
Look at that. God wants us to be so tight with Him that He gives to us of His very nature. God is holy and God is spirit. He gives to us the gift of holy spirit. What a loving and faithful God and Father!
Ask (demand, in the Greek) and you will receive.[/U]
Quote (barley @ July 05 2010,01:40) Along these lines, Jesus Christ is referred to in several places to have been raised up and sat at the right hand of the throne of God.
Trinitarians like to say that supports their theory that JC is God.
So I point out that JC is sitting at the right hand of the throne of God.
If JC is God, why is he not sitting in God's throne?
Hi barley,Add to that the fact that being at someone's right hand has never in the history of the world meant that one was equal to or the same being as the one who's right hand that one was sitting at.
Your right hand man is your “go-to” guy who gets done the things YOU want him to. The one who's right hand you are at is the “boss of you” so to speak.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ July 05 2010,00:58) To all, I view the phrase “name of” as being equivalent to the phrase “by the authority of” and Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit have the same authority.
Both the authority of Jesus and the Holy Spirit come from God and thus I conclude they have the same authority.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Amen Kerwin. I totally agree. I have seen so many people pray for things “in Jesus name” and nothing happens. They have prayed without His authority. Contrary to that, if the Lord tells us to pray for something, then we are praying WITH His authority. This is the essence of faith.Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2010,03:34) Quote (barley @ July 05 2010,01:40) Along these lines, Jesus Christ is referred to in several places to have been raised up and sat at the right hand of the throne of God.
Trinitarians like to say that supports their theory that JC is God.
So I point out that JC is sitting at the right hand of the throne of God.
If JC is God, why is he not sitting in God's throne?
Hi barley,Add to that the fact that being at someone's right hand has never in the history of the world meant that one was equal to or the same being as the one who's right hand that one was sitting at.
Your right hand man is your “go-to” guy who gets done the things YOU want him to. The one who's right hand you are at is the “boss of you” so to speak.
peace and love,
mike
Yep!Quote (barley @ July 05 2010,02:24) What is, or who is, the Holy Spirit? From teachers and such, the answer is two fold.
First, scriptures teach that God is holy and it also teaches that God is spirit, John 4:24. There fore God is both holy and spirit.
Now that we have these two concepts side by side: Why would anyone be surprised if another name God chooses to make himself known by is, the Holy Spirit?Let us also consider the fact that scripture, in the Greek, does not always use the article “the” in front of the two words, holy spirit. Why not? Because God, the Holy Spirit, did not want it there. Why not? Because the Holy Spirit is God, holy spirit is something else. Capitalization is not in the Greek, so translators added capitalization, sometimes right, sometimes wrong.
Scripture speaks of the giving of the Holy Ghost. Is God giving Himself or is he giving of himself. The Holy Spirit is God, God gives us of Himself. What does He give? He gives the gift of holy spirit. The gift is a what, the Giver is a who.
A carpenter gives of himself, one thing he might give is carpentry work. A minister gives of himself, what does he give? The word of God that he lives. God gives of himself, He gives what He is. He gives the gift of holy spirit. Eternal life, the potential for living a powerful, godly life.See Luke 11:13, If ye, then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to them that ask [demand, in the Greek] him?
The Giver, God, our Heavenly Father, gives of himself, what does He give? the gift of holy spirit.
Another scripture which makes a clear distinction between the Giver, who is God, the Holy Spirit, and the gift, holy spirit is John 7:39. Which from the KJV reads, “(But this spake he of the spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)” The words, the Holy Ghost, in the Greek are, holy spirit, ie, the gift of holy spirit from the Giver, the Holy Spirit, God.
There are tons more that the scriptures teach on this, but, for me to type out others' work is not reasonable. I trust that this will at least begin to clarify your thoughts on this subject.
Look at that. God wants us to be so tight with Him that He gives to us of His very nature. God is holy and God is spirit. He gives to us the gift of holy spirit. What a loving and faithful God and Father!
Ask (demand, in the Greek) and you will receive.[/U]
Hi Barley,I hope you will also be commenting Here.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, I believe the Lord has spoken to you, but you have dismissed what He said because it doesn't line up with your theology. Be prepared to take hold of what He says over and above your understanding and see His glory!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 07 2010,22:48) Hi Oxy,
Inference is not enough.
Dig deeper.
Nick, do you know the Lord's voice speaking to you and directing your path? Your comments lead me to think that you don't, yet you tell me to dig deeper?
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