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Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,12:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,15:02) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 28 2010,04:13) Answer: Because Mike and David are polytheists. They claim that they are not polytheists because they do not “worship” lesser gods. But the commandment also said that the people may not “serve” them.
Hi Roo,If I worked at McDonald's and had to serve customers, would I be in violation of God's law?
Don't you think He meant we should serve no other AS God?
You guys are the polytheists. You have three gods, but confusingly try to fit those three into a montheistic belief system. Many of us on HN have only the one God that Paul talked about – the Father.
Is the Father your only God, Roo? WJ? Paul?
peace and love,
mike
Nice post mike.
Thanksmikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Quote So Paul lied when he called him “the god of this age”? All “mighty ones” only have the authority that God grants them to have. That's why, although there are many “mighty ones”, there is only ONE Almighty One. When Satan offered Jesus the kindoms of the world, how could it have been a temptation if they weren't his to give?
Let me be simple, Satan had his evil rights, those kingdoms are his by rights. lets just say its a legal battle for your very soul. Not that satan can have your soul, bc you know satan and the ones who hate God, go to hell. Paul didnt lie. god of this age, because he had authority, a God given right, to rule the darkness that man created.Quote I don't know about the “time” thing, but I agree he existed before being flesh.
Time is a limitation, God cannot be limited, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, Jesus takes action/creates within time, space, and matter.Quote I don't know. Would the demon go in the name of Jehovah? But you didn't answer the question: Where does scripture say it was Jesus' own authority?
Was there demon encounters in the OT? (curiosity) Jesus within scripture gave a first person command. He actualy made it very simple, he just said leave. I didnt say that scripture literally said that, im saying how Jesus commanded them.
Matthew 8:
31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
32And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.Quote But the gods of the Egyptians were able to match some of the miracles that God performed through Moses. Men could not have done what they did. So, just because we know that Jehovah is the only true God – in that He is the only Almighty Maker of heaven and earth – it doesn't mean that Satan and the “other gods” are false. They still have power. It just means that Jehovah is the Almighty, and therefore the one we should worship and serve as God. Match noooo….. where are you getting this from?
The preist tried there best to match, there snake was eatin up, all the stuff they did was small compared to Gods plagues. in the end they were defeated. Each plague was attacking a Egyptian God. espeactially Ra. God made there gods look like nothing, bc they dont exist. ill paint a picture for you, Satan as a cheribum was a Diamond, a Diamond is beautiful, but its glory is really known in the sun, around light. God is the literal light, as the diamond approaches the Light it shines, the fool of satan thought his glory came form himself, but actualy its Gods glory. in other words brother the devil is the lesser light, the counterfeit of good.Ants can worship the sand all they want too, and we can look at them like idioits for worshiping sands bc we very well know that we can simply take away their sand and they are left with nothing but us and the magnifying glass.
Quote And you know this how? God is talked of “punishing” the land of the Israelites for the sins that took place on it. How do we know what relationship animals have with God? They might be able to talk to Him like we do. I'm sure God is much more than Dr. Doolittle, and he talked to animals. All those things was created for man, why did God gave you feet? the purpose of feet is to walk on land or on a surface. To create Man, he first needed to create his world. imagine creating man and than the world. Man would probably die. Since man sinned, than all creation also fell. God several times in the bible, just uses animals as he pleased. Noah dove? Daniel and the lions? Jonah whale? some prophet in training was eaten by a bear….? in many places. In other words animals are more than willing to do Gods will. because they were not given a choice too. Did you know if certain animals went extinct our ecosystem would fall apart. animals have their role in life. And so those the elements and nature.
When God says, Sun shine, it will shine, let there be light, and there it was. Job talks about Gods contorl in such areas.Quote How about the angels? We know a third of them told God “No”.
Correct. =) including them, yet they cant be redeemed as we can. I do not believe they were created in the likeness of God either.Much love =)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2010,08:41) The word “Almighty” means the “mightiest of the mighty”. So if Jesus isn't the Almighty God like the Father is, then he is a different god, like the scriptures teach. He can't be a person in the being of the Almighty God without having that title himself. Does he have that title?
Polytheistic Arians often make a semantic argument over the titles “Mighty God” and “Almighty God”, postulating that each designates a different category of being in their godly panthion. Often when christian's cite Is 9:6 as proof of Yeshua's deity they will counter with “Yes Jesus is “Mighty God, but the Father is Almighty God, He's the mightiest of the mighty”. The point should me made to them, however, that in the very next chapter of Isaiah the exact same Hebrew language (Heb. El Gibbor) is used in reference to YHWH (Is 10:21). The Arian is confronted with two possible explanations.1. The title Mighty God does not denote a lesser category deity than Almighty God.
2. Yeshua is YHWH.
Such is the weakness of the Arian theology….
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,18:12) 1. The title Mighty God does not denote a lesser category deity than Almighty God. 2. Yeshua is YHWH.
Such is the weakness of the Arian theology….
Hi Paul,I used this analogy for WJ once – he scoffed. Let's see if you can follow it.
All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.
Jehovah is god, mighty god, loving god, etc. AND He is ALMIGHTY GOD.
Jesus is god, mighty god, loving god, etc. BUT he is not ALMIGHTY GOD.
Because Jehovah is called Mighty God does not take away from the fact that He is the ONLY One ever called ALMIGHTY GOD.
ps Jesus is NEVER called YHWH in scripture.
peace and love,
mikeHi Paul,
You said:
Quote This reflects what YHWH is like. He had fellowship before the creation of Heaven and Earth (John 1:1b). Fellowship with Himself according to the trinitarians. Fellowship with the separate being He begat to others. Do you think God is a schitzophrenic – talking to Himself?You said:
Quote Yes. Mike there's only one true God. The Almighty. Yeshua is not a false god therefore…..let logic take it's course. Satan is not a false god therefore…..let logic take it's course.
I said:
Doesn't the word “only” imply “to the exclusion” of all others?You said:
Quote Which verse are you citing? John 17:3 NIV
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.Two persons – only one of them the ONLY true God. Pretty simple.
You said:
Quote Given that Thomas was a strict monotheist what other God could he be confessing Yeshua as?? I have admitted that Titus is a difficult one for me. But here are some guesses:
1. Thomas was saying, “OMG! It's really Jesus!”
2. Thomas knew Jesus was the Son of God, therefore god in his own right.
3. Fullfillment of scripture where Jehovah foretold Jesus would be called “mighty god”.Regardless, I will follow what Jesus explicitly taught – that our God was in fact also his God – over what Thomas might have meant in one scripture.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Is 1:18 @ May 31 2010,11:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2010,07:44) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,17:44) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,17:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,16:32) Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30, Job 26:13, Job 33:4, Ezekiel 37:9, Luke 1:35…..
Good. Go ahead and start with Gen 1:2.How is the Holy Spirit attributed with creation in that scripture?
Then we can move on to the others.
I wrote “involved” not attributed….honestly…
Okay, so how? By floating over water?mike
Do you deny the Holy Spirit was involved in creation in any capacity?
The Holy Spirit is God's active force. (You have been doing good not to mention JWs in our discussion – don't start now )So any verb attributed God is also attributed to the Holy Spirit.
What I want from you is a scripture that says the Holy Spirit as a separate person (not the Spirit OF God or God's Spirit) had any involvement with creation or anything else for that matter. Start with creation first.
peace and love,
mikeHi MB,
Active force?No the Spirit fully represents God though God IS in heaven.
God is at work in you to will and to do as Phil 2 says and this is as His Spirit.
We form a building for God as Spirit as eph 2 says.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2010,14:30) Quote (t8 @ May 31 2010,12:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,15:02) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 28 2010,04:13) Answer: Because Mike and David are polytheists. They claim that they are not polytheists because they do not “worship” lesser gods. But the commandment also said that the people may not “serve” them.
Hi Roo,If I worked at McDonald's and had to serve customers, would I be in violation of God's law?
Don't you think He meant we should serve no other AS God?
You guys are the polytheists. You have three gods, but confusingly try to fit those three into a montheistic belief system. Many of us on HN have only the one God that Paul talked about – the Father.
Is the Father your only God, Roo? WJ? Paul?
peace and love,
mike
Nice post mike. Thanks
Christianity itself exalts Jesus as God.The power to forgive
Eternal
Prayed to
WorshippedIf Jesus isn't the same God as The Father…
Then christianity in itself has failed on that premise alone.If he is the same God as The Father, then the meaning of his death really doesn't impact you as it should (talking to ATs).
Although faith is knowledge without knowing…you'll still be saved.
So if Jesus isn't the same God as The Father then us who believe he is are all polytheist saddly mistaken.
but again
Faith is knowledge without knowing…we'll still be saved.
Ignorance of the law may not be an excuse for America, but it is…for God.
Hi RM,
God was in him.
He was given all authority by his God.
So why do you get confused and want him to be God instead of Lord?Ha ha – RokkaMan, here you are…
Did you know that a Tree defied Jesus? Could the tree have defied God?
And Rokkaman, what does Scriptures say about God coming to Earth – It says “Mountains MELT AWAY in his presence”
Did Jesus make Mountains Melt Away and the earth trembled (Isaiah 64) – Yes, if “HIS FATHER” had WILLED IT.And what about the ANGELs – Jesus said “IF MY FATHER WANTED TO SEND THEM” – or IF I ASKED/PRAYEd THE FATHER – He would Send them
I will ask the father and HE WILL SEND HIS HOLY SPIRIT – the COMFORTERIF JESUS is GOD WHY DIDN'T HE Send the HIS Holy Spirit – BESIDEs IF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A PERSON – WHY not just ASK 'him' TO COME WHY WAS HE SENT -.
That is RUDE – very rude – if so. to send God here. Send God there – Take God and POUR him out – THAT God can't Speak of his own but Only what he hears the OTHER TWO of Himself say – THAT GOD on earth could only Do and Say what God in heaven told him to say – THAT GOD on Earth Could DIE – how does God DIE – Then There is No Trinity if ONE God who isn't God but is God dies then there are only TWO Gods but ONE God because Two gods are ONE God.
So Rokkaman left, thinks that He knows it all, how ignoring is that….However, in Hebrew 1:8 does God Himself not tell Jesus He is God? But not a Almighty God, there is the difference…just like LORD and Lord…. I also believe that Jesus did exist before the world was, which some want to ignore….Scriptures all given before….. So that was just a statement…. no debating…….Peace to all,Irene:)
Hi Irene, yes the bible makes it clear but people like to add or take away from what it says.
They say Jesus was talking to himself and not being honest with us who he really was despite God saying “This is my Son listen to him”
Just like people like to say God tortures people forever, despite the Bible saying God is love?
Just like people saying Jesus was only a man who never pre existed despite the bible saying he did pre-exist as the Word and that through him all things were made.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 01 2010,04:55) I'm going away to a conference for 3 days, i'll try to reply to these posts over the weekend.
Hi Paul,Have a nice trip.
Seriously.peace and love,
mikeQuote (RokkaMan @ June 01 2010,09:03) Christianity itself exalts Jesus as God. The power to forgive
Eternal
Prayed to
WorshippedIf Jesus isn't the same God as The Father…
Then christianity in itself has failed on that premise alone.If he is the same God as The Father, then the meaning of his death really doesn't impact you as it should (talking to ATs).
Although faith is knowledge without knowing…you'll still be saved.
So if Jesus isn't the same God as The Father then us who believe he is are all polytheist saddly mistaken.
but again
Faith is knowledge without knowing…we'll still be saved.
Ignorance of the law may not be an excuse for America, but it is…for God.
Hi RM,I'm going to echo and try to expand on what JA, Irene and Karmarie put simply and logically and scripturally.
You said:
Quote Christianity itself exalts Jesus as God. I'm not sure what you mean by that, but remember the word Christianity springs from the word Christ which means “anointed”. (Actually, it means “anointing”, but that's a whole different subject.) Messiah is the Hebrew word for “anointed”. “Anointed”, in turn, basically means “one set aside for a special purpose”. We are told throughout scripture that Jesus is God's “anointed one”. Did God anoint Himself? Did God set Himself aside for a particular purpose?
You said:
Quote The power to forgive Did you read my apology to you in the other thread? Do you forgive me? If so, you must be God then, right?
You said:
Quote Eternal Apparently not at first, for he died.
You said:
Quote Prayed to Many do, but it is not taught in scripture.
You said:
Quote Worshipped Not worshipped as God in scripture, but people did bow to him (did obeisance).
You said:
Quote So if Jesus isn't the same God as The Father then us who believe he is are all polytheist saddly mistaken. but again
Faith is knowledge without knowing…we'll still be saved.
Ignorance of the law may not be an excuse for America, but it is…for God.
I don't know about all that. God seemed pretty clear about His first commandment to have no other Gods. So adamant that He wrote it in stone. He was also very clear that He was the only God. Jesus believed that, why don't you?
peace and love,
mikeHi Dennison,
You said:
Quote Paul didnt lie. god of this age, because he had authority, a God given right, to rule the darkness that man created. I thought Satan was the beginning of the darkness. Anyway, that's exactly like it is with Jesus. He has authority from his God to rule over anyone his God says he can rule over. Do you agree?
You said:
Quote Time is a limitation, God cannot be limited, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, Jesus takes action/creates within time, space, and matter. What?
Dumb it down for me please.You said:
Quote Was there demon encounters in the OT? (curiosity) I don't think anyone was said to have a demon in them. But God did send a “bad” spirit to torment King Saul.
You said:
Quote Jesus within scripture gave a first person command. He actualy made it very simple, he just said leave. I didnt say that scripture literally said that, im saying how Jesus commanded them. Jesus said basically, “Hey, if you don't believe I'm God's Son by my say so, at least believe on the basis of the miracles I've performed. By these you can know I was sent by God.”
The authority and power by which Jesus expelled unclean spirits came from God.
You said:
Quote Match noooo….. where are you getting this from?
The preist tried there best to match, there snake was eatin up, all the stuff they did was small compared to Gods plagues. in the end they were defeated. Each plague was attacking a Egyptian God. espeactially Ra. God made there gods look like nothing, bc they dont exist.Exodus 7
11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake.He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.
22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts,
Exodus 8
6 So Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt, and the frogs came up and covered the land. 7 But the magicians did the same things by their secret arts; they also made frogs come up on the land of Egypt.They were able to match many of the miracles God did through Moses, right? Proof to me that there are other real “gods”. Probably demons acting within boundries that Jehovah had set for them. Who do you think the unclean spirits who possessed the Jews were? Could a man enter another's body? These are “gods” because they are “mighty ones”. And they are not false, they are real and they live among us today.
You said:
Quote In other words animals are more than willing to do Gods will. because they were not given a choice too. If you say so. We know of no animal refusing God's will. But we don't know “anything” compared to God. So don't reach too far in your assumptions based on what little man knows.
You said:
Quote I do not believe they were created in the likeness of God either. Interesting. Roo says ONLY man is created in God's image. But I don't know of scripture that says what you two believe. Is there one?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Arnold @ June 01 2010,11:44) So Rokkaman left, thinks that He knows it all, how ignoring is that….However, in Hebrew 1:8 does God Himself not tell Jesus He is God? But not a Almighty God, there is the difference…just like LORD and Lord…. I also believe that Jesus did exist before the world was, which some want to ignore….Scriptures all given before….. So that was just a statement…. no debating…….Peace to all,Irene:)
Irene,
Thats just mean,
Unnessary comment,
You dont know if his house fell on him as he was typing his last response.
What if he died and you didnt know it, and your last response is this.
Unnessary.so that i dont worry anyone, My dear friend Rokkaman is still living, from what i know. but he understood his logic, and where he is coming from, you would understand what he saying. read between the lines.
that wasnt very peaceful,Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2010,14:39) Hi Dennison, You said:
Quote Paul didnt lie. god of this age, because he had authority, a God given right, to rule the darkness that man created. I thought Satan was the beginning of the darkness. Anyway, that's exactly like it is with Jesus. He has authority from his God to rule over anyone his God says he can rule over. Do you agree?
You said:
Quote Time is a limitation, God cannot be limited, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, Jesus takes action/creates within time, space, and matter. What?
Dumb it down for me please.You said:
Quote Was there demon encounters in the OT? (curiosity) I don't think anyone was said to have a demon in them. But God did send a “bad” spirit to torment King Saul.
You said:
Quote Jesus within scripture gave a first person command. He actualy made it very simple, he just said leave. I didnt say that scripture literally said that, im saying how Jesus commanded them. Jesus said basically, “Hey, if you don't believe I'm God's Son by my say so, at least believe on the basis of the miracles I've performed. By these you can know I was sent by God.”
The authority and power by which Jesus expelled unclean spirits came from God.
You said:
Quote Match noooo….. where are you getting this from?
The preist tried there best to match, there snake was eatin up, all the stuff they did was small compared to Gods plagues. in the end they were defeated. Each plague was attacking a Egyptian God. espeactially Ra. God made there gods look like nothing, bc they dont exist.Exodus 7
11 Pharaoh then summoned wise men and sorcerers, and the Egyptian magicians also did the same things by their secret arts: 12 Each one threw down his staff and it became a snake.He raised his staff in the presence of Pharaoh and his officials and struck the water of the Nile, and all the water was changed into blood. 21 The fish in the Nile died, and the river smelled so bad that the Egyptians could not drink its water. Blood was everywhere in Egypt.
22 But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts,
Exodus 8
6 So Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt, and the frogs came up and covered the land. 7 But the magicians did the same things by their secret arts; they also made frogs come up on the land of Egypt.They were able to match many of the miracles God did through Moses, right? Proof to me that there are other real “gods”. Probably demons acting within boundries that Jehovah had set for them. Who do you think the unclean spirits who possessed the Jews were? Could a man enter another's body? These are “gods” because they are “mighty ones”. And they are not false, they are real and they live among us today.
You said:
Quote In other words animals are more than willing to do Gods will. because they were not given a choice too. If you say so. We know of no animal refusing God's will. But we don't know “anything” compared to God. So don't reach too far in your assumptions based on what little man knows.
You said:
Quote I do not believe they were created in the likeness of God either. Interesting. Roo says ONLY man is created in God's image. But I don't know of scripture that says what you two believe. Is there one?
peace and love,
mike
Hey mike,
Quote I thought Satan was the beginning of the darkness. Anyway, that's exactly like it is with Jesus. He has authority from his God to rule over anyone his God says he can rule over. Do you agree?
Darkness is a result. do you know what cold means? it means there is no heat. cold does not exist, you can feel it because its the lack of heat, thats why we measure heat. darkness means there is no light, in other words darkness cannot be measured. Light and its colors can be measured, but not darkness. The darkness you speak of in other words is called Evil, which means that there is no good, less of God perfect good. I cant really agree with that, because the choice isnt Gods, its mans. Mans chooses whos his heart will be reigned by, its either Jesus or everything he isnt. Jesus reighns everything and will put everything under his feet. soo this isnt the same as the devil.Quote You said:
Quote
Time is a limitation, God cannot be limited, Jesus is the image of the invisible God, Jesus takes action/creates within time, space, and matter.What? Dumb it down for me please
Actually i had no intention of explaining this. but i will lol =)
Time is a limitation. why, because whats temporal can be affected by the present, as the presents is the only exisiting nature, for past is said and done, and the future is awaiting to be presented. God is not limited in that nature. he is above time, he holds past, present, and future interchangbly has he pleases. He is eternal. No time.Which means that for God to partcipate in creating something within a temporal world, is a limitation. Yet scripture says that Jesus is the image of the invisible. just like my emotions is invisible but you can see it through my facial expressions. Jesus is the image of God in this temopral time, space, and matter. In the other scripture it says that HE created. So God partcipating in this world is limiting.
do you get what im saying? can you repeat it?
QuoteJesus said basically, “Hey, if you don't believe I'm God's Son by my say so, at least believe on the basis of the miracles I've performed. By these you can know I was sent by God.” The authority and power by which Jesus expelled unclean spirits came from God.
Its not the same, its not a commant, He doesnt tell the jews believe! and thats it. actually, he told the demon to go, and there was no arguement.Quote They were able to match many of the miracles God did through Moses, right? Proof to me that there are other real “gods”. Probably demons acting within boundries that Jehovah had set for them. Who do you think the unclean spirits who possessed the Jews were? Could a man enter another's body? These are “gods” because they are “mighty ones”. And they are not false, they are real and they live among us today.
You answered my demon question with this comment. They are not gods in the since of authority, they are imperfect. Perfection is what gives Gods title its true nature. simply because they were defeated showed them to be really nothing. compared to God. i can agree that probably demon forces contributed to what happened. but it doest make them gods. Even God told lucifer for desiring to be God, im putting you down.Code Sample If you say so. We know of no animal refusing God's will. But we don't know "anything" compared to God. So don't reach too far in your assumptions based on what little man knows.
Scientific method.= we have always observed through scripture that animals have always obeyed god, there nature was change by adams sins, they did Gods will and in the end lions willl eat grass. Since scriptural observations doesnt say otherwise this will stay as a theory and not fact, becasue we do not know. but we can always ask God! he is the truth.Quote You said:
Quote
I do not believe they were created in the likeness of God either.
Interesting. Roo says ONLY man is created in God's image. But I don't know of scripture that says what you two believe. Is there one?
Hey i could be wrong, there is scripture that says that Jesus says we will be like the angels and not gentials. sooo who knows. the only reason i say this, because observing humans, they all have blood, hands, feet , and etc. Angels dont seem to share these traits in there discription. Yet the bible says we are in the likness of God, but i havent seen such a thing for angels. Angels are not a race like humans. everysingle one has his distictful appearance and role. Humans are a race. The only idea that connecst angels and humans, is God and his choice that he presented to both.Thats what i think, my observations, but hey i could be wrong.
I dont know everything =)Much love mike.
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