- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Is 1.18,
Only men speak of separate persons in God.
Jesus told the Jews Who their God is in Jn8.54
Their God is my God and the God of Jesus.[Jn20.17]Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,16:07) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:25) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) Hi Paul, I said: But is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”?
You said:
Quote Answered. Where? And is it a yes or no answer? Because that is all the question requires, not a bunch of word play or conjecture.
I wrote something a few years ago in answer to this. Sort of a prima facie document. It's too long to post here (10,000+ words, i think). I'm happy to email it to you. Let me know.
Really? And because of a paper you wrote that I didn't even know about, you answer my question with “Answered”. As if you actually had given me an answer that I missed?
peace and love,
mike
No it's been answered in a fragmented fashion in the dozens of posts i've written to you and others in threads you've been active in.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,15:57) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,15:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,14:58) Okay. King David was a “good” king, therefore a true king. King Sennacherub was a “bad” king. Was he therefore a “false king”?
I gave you an explicit scriptural definition. Maybe you should use that as your framework for dismantling my argument.
Okay. Then explicitly explain to me how the Holy Spirit was involved in the creation. If not, “He” is a false god, right?
Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30, Job 26:13, Job 33:4, Ezekiel 37:9, Luke 1:35…..Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,16:05) You got me on that one for now.
At least you're honest about it. More than I can say for some….Jesus: “If you see Me then you see the Father also”
Thomas: “My Lord (Jesus) and My God (The Father)”Hi Paul,
You said:
Quote Yeshua is also a man. Born of a woman and under the law (Gal 4:4). As a man He is subject to the law, ALL of it. To which I said: Even the Sabbath? Or was he Lord of the Sabbath?
To which you said:
Quote I didn't say He was not Lord, did I? Is it just me, or are you avoiding the very point you tried to make? Was Jesus, as a man, subject to the Sabbath, or not?
I said: So why does he still call the Father “my God” in Rev, after he has been raised?
You said:
Quote Because when He became a man it was an irrevokable decision. He didn't unbecome a man at the ascention Mike. So then the Father will ALWAYS be Jesus' God, right? Just like He is our God, right? Does God Almighty have a God, Paul? Is God Almighty a man?
You said:
Quote That right, NOT one person! Oh sure God is one person. But getting into that will be like beating a dead horse for both of us. Why did you not add the rest of my point? I said that YHWH is one Almighty God. Is Jesus ever said to be Almighty? I'm sure it's just me, but it seems like a little dodging going on here.
You said:
Quote As I said my only God is YHWH. So my God is the seperate persons of the Father, Son and Spirit. So then, your answer is NO. The Father is NOT your only God. Hmmm….The Father is Jesus' only God. Also Paul's. Also mine. Why not yours? I don't remember Jesus or Paul or anyone else in scripture saying that the Father/Son/Holy Spirit Godhead was their only God, do you?
You said:
Quote I should start a list…. Please do. And be so kind as to number them for easy referrence.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,16:28) No it's been answered in a fragmented fashion in the dozens of posts i've written to you and others in threads you've been active in.
Okay. I must have missed it. Tell me the short yes or no answer for my records.Is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,16:32) Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30, Job 26:13, Job 33:4, Ezekiel 37:9, Luke 1:35…..
Good. Go ahead and start with Gen 1:2.How is the Holy Spirit attributed with creation in that scripture?
Then we can move on to the others.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,17:32) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,16:32) Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30, Job 26:13, Job 33:4, Ezekiel 37:9, Luke 1:35…..
Good. Go ahead and start with Gen 1:2.How is the Holy Spirit attributed with creation in that scripture?
Then we can move on to the others.
I wrote “involved” not attributed….honestly…
Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,16:45) Jesus: “If you see Me then you see the Father also”
Thomas: “My Lord (Jesus) and My God (The Father)”
mikeboll64,May wrote:[/quote]
Hi mike,I dont know how my post got 10 pages behind,
grrr.. im going to have to but in again!U sure im a kid? maybe im older than you? MAYBE.
Satan is not a god at all, his only authority is permissable by God.
Every Knee shall bow to Jesus. a god does not kneel to another.Quote Surely you have scriptures to prove this? The ones I've read say he was “begotten”, “the firstborn of all creation” and “the beginning of the creation of God”.
God his above time, before creation took place, he wasnt father until they were created. in other words, he wasnt a healer until there was pain to exist to heal.
So when i that the Son always existed within “TIME” thats what i mean. As in he existed before becoming flesh.Quote Jesus rejected Satan's temptations, yes. Just as I reject them daily. Maybe I reject them of my own will to do God's will. Maybe it is through help from God's Spirit (I know sometimes it HAS to be the Spirit, because I am not strong enough if Satan really pours it on). Where does scripture say it was Jesus' own authority? Didn't he say he could do nothing on his own?
We cannot reject satan based on our own authority, we cannot rebuke demons without Jesus names, whcih does give us authority. I agree If one believe Jesus is the father or what not, than it wuold make sense. Jesus banished demons out by merely telling them to get out. I find it funny when Jesus was walking on the road, and these two demons were waitng from far off, they already knew who he was, they were like Please its not our time yet! please just send us i the pigs. And Jesus minding his own buisness just says, Go.
Can any of us without the name of Jesus, tell a demon to go?Jesus doesnt make great scenes as many pastors do today of taking out demons, he just tells him to leave, and thats that.
am i wrong?
Jesus does not reject as we did. under his name we can.Quote Are you implying that in this exchange, Jesus was saying that he was the “Lord thy God”? Who likes to be wrong? of course not anyone, i will honestly put on writing that i forgot to look at context. and Nick clearly got me on that one. i was implying that, but i withdraw that statement now. =)
Quote I find it hard to believe that all the demons knew who Jesus was on sight, but their leader Satan didn't. I personally think the “If you really are the Son of God…” wording was like a double-dog dare to Jesus, and therefore part of the temptation. Maybe I'm reading your point the wrong way? Jesus had to go on the months fast right? Isnt Satan the tempter to get you when he thinks your weak. If one believes that this one is limlited than why not provoke him. I dont think he had doubt, but just a double-dog-dare as you said. Lets say im the best soccer player of the world and thats my title, a random guy shows up and says (who knows thats my title) he goes oh really, prove it to me, play me (and maybe this guy just wants a chance to injure the guy responsible for beating his team). its not that he doesnt believe im the best, he just wants to egg me on. -Speculation.
Quote What? Where did you get this? There is no trinity godhead. There is one God, the Father. He has a Son, who is our Lord. He also has a Holy Spirit that is a part of Him, not a separate person or being. That's how I veiw the trinity. The co-equal word makes me think of these things lol. i just dont like that word.
Quote I understand your thinking that God is everything. But if God is everything, then wouldn't everything be God? Your thoughts? Also, where do you draw a line? In your opinion, if I worship Satan, I am really worshipping God, right? Wow finally someone figured out what i think.
oh no…. contrary to what most think everything cannot be God. In other words, God is the God of the mountian, but he is not the mountain. He is our God, but we are not God. He is in other word the King of Everything. our God. No worshipping satan is not the same. That means i can worship anything. Its not like that. good refute by the way. I am that I am. He is not like the gods of the eygptians who had a god for everything, or even the romans who even had a god for the hinges, they even had a god for each length of grass. and a just in case they also had the unknown god. in other Words Pual express the very God that they didnt know, which is the God of all those things. to be limited to just one attribute, or one part of nature is a limitation. is he not the God of heaven, of this universe?Quote I'll see you and raise you. I have thought before: What if the color I see as green, you see as pink in your mind. But because all your life you were taught that the color I would call pink was called green, you really see “pink” grass, but call it “green”.
Thats the problem we are having in christianaity, its irrevalent to care about what you and i think what color grass it truely is, the only perception that matters is God. in other words what color does God see. If its green than its a green. Which makes truth. because one his raised to believe its pink they will always stick to that, and even the one who see it as green. the problem. they were both raised to believe what they believe, and take no conclusions based on Gods thoughts.Quote What man CANNOT sin? Jesus DIDN'T sin. That is not to say that he couldn't, is it? I don't think God ever created anything that CANNOT sin. He gave us all free will to choose, IMO. well animals, trees, and other such thigns cannot sin, neither can the stars, and the sun and other such things. in other words, man is the only one who ever had the option to say no, in all of creation.
in other words what i was trying to say, that what is a man, who says yes to everything that God wants, but not only yes, but (confirm all option) or a yes all.Much love mike!
=)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,10:41) Hi Karmarie, Roo and WJ are no more children of God than you are. Why do you let them carry so much weight with you? They are constantly proven wrong by scripture, so anything Roo snarls at you, I would look up to see if he actually knows what he's talking about.
Sometimes he does.
As Nick's signature says, “Test all things.”And never let anyone make you think you are not as welcome here as anyone else. Put your two cents in. What's the worst that can happen? You find out you were wrong and learn something? That's not so bad.
peace and love,
mike
Thanks heaps Mike but I think i'll stay out of it.All I know is God is the Father, Jesus is the Son, simple as. The Bible supports that. Its all throughout the Scriptures.
So I dont need to question it (or read here anymore) ha!
Thankyou though. Your really kind.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,17:29) Hi Paul, You said:
Quote Yeshua is also a man. Born of a woman and under the law (Gal 4:4). As a man He is subject to the law, ALL of it. To which I said: Even the Sabbath? Or was he Lord of the Sabbath?
To which you said:
Quote I didn't say He was not Lord, did I? Is it just me, or are you avoiding the very point you tried to make? Was Jesus, as a man, subject to the Sabbath, or not?
You're right. I missed the point you were trying to make. My answer is yes He is Lord of the Sabbath, in fact He is “Lord of all” (Acts 10:30). This is a function of His deity. His conformity to the mosaic law is a function of His humanity. A paradox? Yes. But that does not invalidate it. Yeshua is a paradox to us in many ways. If He isn't a paradox to you then you haven't studied enough christology or you're not being honest with the scriptures.Quote I said: So why does he still call the Father “my God” in Rev, after he has been raised? You said:
Because when He became a man it was an irrevokable decision. He didn't unbecome a man at the ascention Mike.So then the Father will ALWAYS be Jesus' God, right? Just like He is our God, right? Does God Almighty have a God, Paul? Is God Almighty a man?
Yeshua, the second person of the trinity has a God, His Father, and is Himself Almighty God. It's not illogical UNLESS you presuppose unipersonality.Quote You said
That right, NOT one person!Oh sure God is one person. But getting into that will be like beating a dead horse for both of us. Why did you not add the rest of my point? I said that YHWH is one Almighty God. Is Jesus ever said to be Almighty? I'm sure it's just me, but it seems like a little dodging going on here.
Revelation 1:8. To be honest Mike it's a moot point you make because “Almighty God” in not the only title of deity in the Bible. It's just one of many and more than enough of them are ascribed to Yeshua to convince someone of His identity, unless of course their heart is hardened against that truth….Quote You said:
As I said my only God is YHWH. So my God is the seperate persons of the Father, Son and Spirit.So then, your answer is NO. The Father is NOT your only God. Hmmm….The Father is Jesus' only God. Also Paul's. Also mine. Why not yours? I don't remember Jesus or Paul or anyone else in scripture saying that the Father/Son/Holy Spirit Godhead was their only God, do you?
You said:
I should start a list….
Did Paul write that the Father is his only God to the exclusion of Yeshua? Where?As for me, I'm with Thomas.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 30 2010,17:31) Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 30 2010,16:28) No it's been answered in a fragmented fashion in the dozens of posts i've written to you and others in threads you've been active in.
Okay. I must have missed it. Tell me the short yes or no answer for my records.Is there any scripture that straight out says, “YHWH is three”?
That's a very nieve request. Are there any scriptures that “straight out says” God is one person? No. I don't expect people to produce explicit statements to validate your doctrines because I know that in many cases they simply don't exist. Where is the statement that explicates the exact method of salvation? You take the whole counsel of God into account, examine all the data, reach a balanced conclusion. This is a mature approach to biblical exegesis Mike. You'll learn.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2010,21:03) Hi Is 1.18,
For us there is one God, the Father…and one Lord Jesus Christ
1Cor8See so simple and easy to understand!
Thanks Nick.
Easier than all the gibberish?
Kar,
I've said before. You are sooo coool.I love your simplicity.
It warms my heart to read your uncomplicated exposition…
God the Father
Jesus the Son.Praise the Son; Worship the Father!
Simple as! “For the Father seeks such ones to worship him”
Kar, you are ready for refinement, ready for the deeper elements of Gospel Truth.
This is so funny:
“If you don't believe Jesus is a paradox then you haven't studied enough Christology”If you don't believe a lie then you obviously haven't learnt properly…
Also, can I Just Ask someone, a Trinitarian preferably:
Does Jesus have a God? Who is that God?Does the Holy Spirit have a God? Who is that God?
Does the Father have a God? Who is that God?
These are not 'Trick' questions so please, no 'guarded' answers, i just wanna know how you Godshipness works. Surely you can't deny me your belief, else why defend it if you can't share it?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
