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Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,07:39) KJ,WJ, When you read that your belief is the abomination spoken of in the Scriptures, do you not feel a little queasy?
JA,Then Jesus also spoke an abomination for He said,
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
What part of Jesus' statement that you are to honor Him “just as” you honor the Father do you not understand?
Thomas also spoke an abomination when he addressed Jesus saying, “My Lord and My God“.
It looks like WJ and I are on the right side of the issue.
Do what you do best JA
Kangaroo Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 29 2010,15:48) Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,07:39) KJ,WJ, When you read that your belief is the abomination spoken of in the Scriptures, do you not feel a little queasy?
JA,Then Jesus also spoke an abomination for He said,
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
What part of Jesus' statement that you are to honor Him “just as” you honor the Father do you not understand?
Thomas also spoke an abomination when he addressed Jesus saying, “My Lord and My God“.
It looks like WJ and I are on the right side of the issue.
Do what you do best JA
Kangaroo Jack
JackThe only thing that they try to do is draw you away from the truth in the scriptures into a mudslinging contest.
Patronize and all kinds of ad hominems to see if they can get a rise out of you. Very childish and cowardly indeed.
The more truth truth you give them the more they began to act like the Pharisees and the unbelieving Jews by throwing stones at Jesus and couldn't wait to crucify him!
But I am just sitting here laughing at how foolish they are!
The Lord sits in the heavens and laughs too.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and “every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn“. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Isa 54:17
Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,07:53) This is excellent stuff. Both KJ and WJ are drowning in their own deceit.
JA,Do you honor the Son “just as” you honor the Father? Answer plainly PLEASE! Jesus said that if you don't honor Him “just as” you honor the Father then you do not honor the Father Himself.
Answer plainly.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi KJ,
Indeed all the prophets should have been honored as they represented God but they too were killed.
Lk20Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 30 2010,08:00) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 29 2010,15:48) Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,07:39) KJ,WJ, When you read that your belief is the abomination spoken of in the Scriptures, do you not feel a little queasy?
JA,Then Jesus also spoke an abomination for He said,
22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
What part of Jesus' statement that you are to honor Him “just as” you honor the Father do you not understand?
Thomas also spoke an abomination when he addressed Jesus saying, “My Lord and My God“.
It looks like WJ and I are on the right side of the issue.
Do what you do best JA
Kangaroo Jack
JackThe only thing that they try to do is draw you away from the truth in the scriptures into a mudslinging contest.
Patronize and all kinds of ad hominems to see if they can get a rise out of you. Very childish and cowardly indeed.
The more truth truth you give them the more they began to act like the Pharisees and the unbelieving Jews by throwing stones at Jesus and couldn't wait to crucify him!
But I am just sitting here laughing at how foolish they are!
The Lord sits in the heavens and laughs too.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and “every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn“. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. Isa 54:17
Yes indeed Keith. JA has no answers. He would look better if he just logged off and thought about things and then come back with intelligent replies. Instead he just can't wait to reply even though he has nothing intelligent to say.And what about Gene? His answer for everything is in the “Intellects”.
Hey, how about this? Instead of saying, “The Devil made me do it”, how about, “The Intellects made me do it”.
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 29 2010,16:01) Quote (JustAskin @ May 30 2010,07:53) This is excellent stuff. Both KJ and WJ are drowning in their own deceit.
JA,Do you honor the Son “just as” you honor the Father? Answer plainly PLEASE! Jesus said that if you don't honor Him “just as” you honor the Father then you do not honor the Father Himself.
Answer plainly.
Kangaroo Jack
JackIt really doesn't matter if they say it because it is entirely possible they would only be honouring him with their lips yet their hearts being far from him! It seems that there is a lot of lip service going around here. It would be interesting to be a fly on a wall and see what kind of lives they live!
I don't think I would be surprised!
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2010,08:06) Hi KJ,
Indeed all the prophets should have been honored as they represented God but they too were killed.
Lk20
So you're saying that Moses is to be honored “just as” the Father is honored? Why is it then that Jesus is to receive more glory than Moses?Hebrews 3:1-6:
1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
KJ
Quote (Is 1:18 @ May 29 2010,08:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,14:52) So you will ignore the fact that Jesus is the “firstborn of all creation”,
You take this to mean “first created” as it's consistent with you Arian theological presupposition. Examine the usage of the word in the (whole) Bible and you'll find that it refers to preeminence. If Paul wanted to convey that Jesus was “first-created” he could have done so by using the word prōtoktistos meaning “first-created” (2 Cor 5:18).Quote the “beginning of the creation of God”
Arche = The beginner or origin….Quote the “only begotten Son” and other scriptures?
Monogenes = unique, one of a kind.Quote Forget the scriptures just for a second. Use common sense. When in the history of the world has a son been the same exact being as his father?
Both are human beings are they not?Quote How much clearer could the Bible have said it? There is a Father. There is His Son.
Yes there is…Umm Mike you appear to be making an anti-modalistic argument here. I am not a modalist. I affirm the Father and Son are different persons.Quote The Son was begotten by the Father. For me to be able to dispute all these clear signs and the many, many others, I would need a scripture that point blank said, “Jesus is God the Son, co-equal with God the Father.” Why the mystery?
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing; But the glory of kings is to search out a matter. (Prov 25:2)Before you get too excited let me be clear, I'm not implying that this was necessarily “hidden” by God. I quoted it to show you that not all doctrines are explicit in scripture by design. Most are formed by us using deductive reasoning. It is the Glory of God to do this and our glory to figure stuff out. I'm sure many you hold are inferential, in fact I know they are.
Quote Did God intend for us to not clearly understand how and who to worship? No. This division comes from that other mighty god, Satan. The one who is the god of this world.
There is one true God, YHWH. All other “gods” are therefore false ones. See…..deductive reasoning in action!Quote ps, I never implied Jesus and Satan were equivalent beings. Jesus has the distinction of being the only being directly caused to exist by God.
This is not scriptural. There's no evidence – explicit or implicit – to support this. Stop making stuff up.Quote Satan is one of the “everything else” that was created by God through Jesus.
“everything else”? Be more accurate Mike – Satan is part of the ALL things mentioned in John 1:3, 1 Cor 8:6 and Col 1:16. If Yeshua is involved in the creation of ALL THINGS He Himself cannot logically be a “thing”. The ontological divide between Yeshua and Satan is as wide as the divide between Creator and creation. More deductive reasoning. Are you catching on?Quote What I implied – nea, what I clearly said was that both Jesus and Satan are gods, but not the Almighty God. If Roo wants to cry, let him. I spoke scripturally correctly.
YHWH is the true God. Satan is a False god.Question: is Yeshua a true God or a false one?
Hi Paul,I spent an hour on a reply to this, then my computer crashed. So instead of starting again, I just made my response into a new thread. Hope to see your thoughts over there. It's called “trinitarian scholars are mistaken”.
peace and love,
mikeBtw Paul,
Jesus says THE FATHER is the only true god. Scripture says He is the God of gods. Jesus call Him “my God”. Therefore, Jesus is NOT the only true God, but one of the other gods that THE FATHER is the God of.
So answer your own question. Is Jesus, although not being the only true God, still a true god? If so, then so is Satan, for he also is one of the gods mentioned in scripture that is not the only true God.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,09:36) Were they “true gods” at all Mike, or were they gods formed by men?
Hi WJ,I made a very nice post a while back in this thread. Maybe you missed it?
Was the mighty one, or “god” that delayed the angel from coming to Daniel a man-made god? Could man have made a god so powerful that Jehovah had to send Michael to help free the other angel? The “prince of persia” was a god for sure, but not the only true God. Does that make him a false god? Or did he really exist and delay the angel like scripture says. I list more examples in my previous post.
Go back and read my post, then talk to me.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,11:33) Mike is not calling Jesus 'The God' YHVH, nor is he calling Satan, YHVH, for he says of Satan, 'a god'. I think the error is in including 'true'. Mike, just need to be a bit more careful, buddy. I can forgive you such errors but your adversary won't.
Keep it tight and straight my brother and all will prevail..
KJ, I understand you caught Mike out, but I also know that you knew that it was a mistake on Mike's part.
Hello my brother in Christ JA,I see you understand what I was saying. Apparently so did everyone except for Roo – at least no one else has said anything to me.
I am not in error calling Satan a “true god”. Does he exist? Is he a god? Is he real? Does he affect peoples lives? Then he is a true god.
If Jesus was saying that the Father was the only true God in the sense that there were no other gods period, it wouldn't fit in with scripture.
What he was saying, much like Paul said, was that out of all the gods in existence, the Father is the only God we should worship, the only God who created the heavens and the earth, the only God who's will is ultimately done.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,14:11) What? Here is the context…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39)
It's similar with Jesus. He said the Father is greater. He said the Father is the only true God. He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god. But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus. Not the Holy Spirit. Not some mixture of three. But the Father. Paul says the same thing. Only the Father is our God.Maybe you were half asleep or tired when you wrote this but it seems clear to me!
WJ
Okay WJ,I'll rephrase it.
It's similar with Jesus. Jesus said the Father is greater. Jesus said the Father is the only true God. Jesus wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. Jesus knows that Satan is a true god. And Jesus wasn't implying that Jesus is not real. Jesus is the second mightiest being in existance, so Jesus qualifies as a real god. But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus. Not the Holy Spirit. Not some mixture of three. But the Father. Paul says the same thing. Only the Father is our God.
I can see where the confusion came from, but wow! Couldn't you have asked for clarification before flipping out? Innocent until proven guilty, right?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,14:16) Yes, the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit is my “One true God!
Hi WJ,So your God IS different than Paul's and Jesus'? Why? Their God and mine is the Father only.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,14:18) Mike Not so for Paul and Peter and John and Thomas and many Church Fathers call him their God!
Only Thomas says “my god” that I am aware of.Quote (Arnold @ May 29 2010,16:42) Wait a minute, you are putting Jesus on the same level then Satan? Are you out of your mind!!!!!! No way. Jesus was the firstborn of all creation a Son of God!!! Satan is a fallen Angel. He wanted to be like God Himself and throw Him of His Throne…. Jesus saw Satan fallen like lightning from Heaven. He now is here on earth and given us with the third of the Angel that went with him trouble, and God uses him to test us, just like He did with Job. You have to make yourself clear when you say both are God's, then you putting both on the same level…. Jesus is not just a God, He is the Son of God there lies the difference…. and you did not state that…..He is a Mighty God and Satan is not… another difference. Otherwise people will come after you and say what I just did….
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,Like I have been explaining over and over…
Satan is a mighty one (god) who is not the Father (the only true God).
Jesus is a mighty one (god) who is not the Father.
Didn't you read the post? I specifically told Paul that I did NOT say Jesus was equivolent with Satan.
So maybe you can show me scripturally where I am wrong.
Is Jesus called a god in scripture? Is Satan? Are either of them the Almighty God Jehovah?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,16:55) NH Because Jesus said the Holy Spirit was “another” person!
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another (allos) Comforter (paraklētos), that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16
allos – adjective (modifys the noun), which means; “another, other”
Paraklētos – Masculine noun, which means; summoned, called to one's side, esp. called to one's aid, one who pleads another's cause before a judge, a pleader, counsel for defense, legal assistant, an advocate
Yes Keith,And Zion and Jerusalem are both referred to as “her” and “she”. Are they ladies?
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