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Is. 1:18 said to Mikeboll:
Quote Arche = The beginner or origin…. Hi Paul,
Mike has admitted that “arche” can mean “ruler” but he remains stubborn about it anyway.
On March 31 Mike admitted that the Greek “arche” in reference to Jesus in Revelation 3:14 could be translated “ruler.”
“Now that I know more (thank you for that), I agree that in 3:14 it could be translated as “ruler”.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
But on March 26 he outright accused trinitarians of “doctoring the scriptures” for the last 1800 years and “flat out lying” about Revelation 3:14.
“My point to all this is that the Trinitarians have been doctoring the Scriptures and changing the meanings of clearly written Scriptures for 1800 years. Lately, they just keep getting more and more blatant about it. The NIV is the most prominent translation in America today, at least with the younger, post-King James readers, and they are flat out lying about Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=70
In Revelation 22:13 God says that He is the “arche” just as Christ is also called the “arche”.
Jack
Hi KJ,
Would it not be more useful to get to know God and His Son rather than playing around with words?Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 29 2010,09:08) Is. 1:18 said to Mikeboll: Quote Arche = The beginner or origin…. Hi Paul,
Mike has admitted that “arche” can mean “ruler” but he remains stubborn about it anyway.
On March 31 Mike admitted that the Greek “arche” in reference to Jesus in Revelation 3:14 could be translated “ruler.”
“Now that I know more (thank you for that), I agree that in 3:14 it could be translated as “ruler”.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=80
But on March 26 he outright accused trinitarians of “doctoring the scriptures” for the last 1800 years and “flat out lying” about Revelation 3:14.
“My point to all this is that the Trinitarians have been doctoring the Scriptures and changing the meanings of clearly written Scriptures for 1800 years. Lately, they just keep getting more and more blatant about it. The NIV is the most prominent translation in America today, at least with the younger, post-King James readers, and they are flat out lying about Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15.”
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….2;st=70
In Revelation 22:13 God says that He is the “arche” just as Christ is also called the “arche”.
Jack
Thanks Jack.WJ,
How do you ask me ' which question on page 27' when there IS Only One post from me to you.
Gene was right that you wiuldn't answer.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2010,09:12) Hi KJ,
Would it not be more useful to get to know God and His Son rather than playing around with words?
Take the beam out Nick.Jack
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 29 2010,09:17) Hi KJ,
Does the backslapping jollity have any eternal usefulness?
How come you don't admonish JA and Mike when they do it to trinitarians?
KJ
kJ,
Encourage your brother in Truth…
It doesn't say, 'encourage your brother in a distortion'.That's the difference.
And, I never encourage anyone except in Gospel truth. And even many more less … Not everyone everytime.
So, once again, you include me for the sake of not having any credible others to include. Sad really.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 27 2010,16:10) “BEFORE ME THERE WAS NO GOD FORMED, AND AFTER ME THERE CONTINUED TO BE NONE”
Hi WJ,Yet the Hebrews knew Jehovah as the “God of gods”. Hmmm…How can that be if no other gods were formed? Do you think He meant no other “mighty ones”, or maybe He meant no other “God Almighty creator of heaven and earth's”.
Didn't Paul know that scripture when he called Satan the “god of this age”? Again, Hmmm… Why would Paul say that when he must have known there were no other gods formed? Why would God say we are not to have any other gods before Him when He knew there were no other gods?
Use your big boy reasoning, Keith.
peace and love,
mikeMike
Yes God of gods! True God, false gods!
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: Deut 10:17
Context Mike, and what gods was Moses speaking of when he said this? Here I will show you!
For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; “and against all the gods of Egypt” I will execute judgment: I am the LORD. Exod 12:12
Were they “true gods” at all Mike, or were they gods formed by men?
The false gods of men were just that, false. Being mighty didn't make one a god!
When Paul said “god of this world” he was speaking in the same way that the OT writers were when they said god of the king or god of Assyria. They were gods formed by man and not YHWH.
How do I know this, because there is no example of a servant of YHWH calling any of those so-called gods, their god!
So answer the question Mike…
Where is the scripture where a servant of YHWH or Jesus ever called any being their God other than YHWH and Jesus in all 66 books?
Surely you can find one example! Instead what you will find is God bringing judgment on the nations that served or worshipped these so-called gods!
Put up or —- –, about there being other true gods!
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ May 28 2010,17:19) WJ, How do you ask me ' which question on page 27' when there IS Only One post from me to you.
Gene was right that you wiuldn't answer.
Don't be to hasty. I looked and saw three post of yours on that page, but now I see one to me! Sorry!I will get to it!
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,09:35) kJ,
Encourage your brother in Truth…
It doesn't say, 'encourage your brother in a distortion'.That's the difference.
And, I never encourage anyone except in Gospel truth. And even many more less … Not everyone everytime.
So, once again, you include me for the sake of not having any credible others to include. Sad really.
JA,Then encourage Mike who has said that satan is a “true god” and the second most powereful being.
roo
Ok,
I haven't been following your debate so I don't fully know what you saying or what Mike is saying but since I know Mike I can only think it is a misunderstanding between you two over the rendering of some scriptural extract or ideology.You will notice I don't indulge in ideologym according to my understanding, anyway.
You also understand that I will be PM'ing Mike in this, not doing it in open forum.
Ok,
I see what Mike is saying and there ain't nothing sinister in it, in'it!Mike is saying…and makes it quite clear, that God is God with a capital 'G' but Jesus is god with a small 'g' and Satan is god with a small 'g'.
What is 'God' and what is 'god'?
It is important to read what you see and not what you want to see.
'God' written with caps …denotes… The one True Spiritual God, Supremes, all powerful, being called 'YHVH', who's face no earthly man has seen, who lives in unapproachable light sitting on the throne of complete power, encompassing all this within Himself, giving to his creation what He will or taking back from His creation what He will, asking only that His creation Worship him (Note that in worshipping Him all and every other God inspired law follows in due manner)
Now, because that 'God' created us and put His Spirit in us, we, too are 'a form of God' but not That God, not 'The God' that put that Spirit, which represent authority and freedom of thought, freedom to design, create, 'think in Godly ways'.
This 'form of God' is denoted by, unfortunately, the same word as that YHVH God, 'god' but note the 'lower case' 'g', denoting a 'lower status, a common God,..'a god''A God', also, with the indefinite article is man,..or angels, or, Mike says, Jesus. Note, this is 'plural' as there are many 'gods'…or 'so-called 'gods''
'The God', with the definite article denotes ONE God, that ONE God, YHVH.I hope that this ckears things up.
Mike is not calling Jesus 'The God' YHVH, nor is he calling Satan, YHVH, for he says of Satan, 'a god'. I think the error is in including 'true'.
Mike, just need to be a bit more careful, buddy. I can forgive you such errors but your adversary won't.
Keep it tight and straight my brother and all will prevail..
KJ, I understand you caught Mike out, but I also know that you knew that it was a mistake on Mike's part.
At least now it's fairer,
by airing the error,
it was able to be reviewed,
the true meaning construed
and the discussion can now be renewed
in full view
of the 'capital' clue,
which, no doubt, you did knew.
Phew!Quote (karmarie @ May 28 2010,15:37) This is how I understand it … I just want to learn not debate but it seems here more debating than learning which doesnt really help anyone.
Hi Karmarie,If you want to learn, just ask a question. Many here will be able to point you to the scripture(s) that might have the answer you're looking for.
I will always be happy to tell others how I believe and what scripture(s) lead me to believe that way. Many read the same scriptures and get a different conclusion, though.
Then comes the part where you have to pray for understanding on what the scripture in question REALLY means.
peace and love,
mikeSimplyForgiven,May wrote:[/quote]
Hi Dennison,You said:
Quote Ya it was t8's post…. aghhhhhhhhhhh
Its just in that post, that i qouted from, had your name on it, and i been thinking all this time it was from you, when it was from t8, you just seconded him. grr to you old man grr to you again.Yeah, you dumb kids should learn from your elders.
You said:
Quote Now its different with Jesus. Why because he does exactly what the Father does, His inhertince, or territory is everything, he comes to Rule your heart. So Satan can not be a “god” because he doesn't do what the Father does? And Satan does not rule anyone's heart?
You said:
Quote Yet Jesus always existed according to the bible, as Son or as God however you want to believe. but he existed. Surely you have scriptures to prove this? The ones I've read say he was “begotten”, “the firstborn of all creation” and “the beginning of the creation of God”.
You said:
Quote Yet in the bible when wrestling over the body of Moses, the Angel Michael had to rebuke the Devil by asking God to rebuke him. Yes, Michael said, “May God rebuke you” or something like that.
You said:
Quote Yet several times Jesus rejected Satan by his own authority… Jesus rejected Satan's temptations, yes. Just as I reject them daily. Maybe I reject them of my own will to do God's will. Maybe it is through help from God's Spirit (I know sometimes it HAS to be the Spirit, because I am not strong enough if Satan really pours it on). Where does scripture say it was Jesus' own authority? Didn't he say he could do nothing on his own?
You said:
Quote even when Jesus was being tempted he said, you shall not tempt the Lord thy God. 5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6″If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
” 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'”7Jesus answered him, “It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'”
Are you implying that in this exchange, Jesus was saying that he was the “Lord thy God”?
You said:
Quote Satan wanted him to tempt him to prove he was the Son of God. I find it hard to believe that all the demons knew who Jesus was on sight, but their leader Satan didn't. I personally think the “If you really are the Son of God…” wording was like a double-dog dare to Jesus, and therefore part of the temptation. Maybe I'm reading your point the wrong way?
You said:
Quote I think the way people view the Trinity is wierd. Its like you view it as the Justice league or something. Its like your saying the Trinity is a team of Gods who are balanced, who are taking on the world and what not. What?
Where did you get this? There is no trinity godhead. There is one God, the Father. He has a Son, who is our Lord. He also has a Holy Spirit that is a part of Him, not a separate person or being. That's how I veiw the trinity.You said:
Quote For God to only be father is a limitation. I understand your thinking that God is everything. But if God is everything, then wouldn't everything be God? Your thoughts? Also, where do you draw a line? In your opinion, if I worship Satan, I am really worshipping God, right?
You said:
Quote You see grass, i see grass. its the same observations of facts. I'll see you and raise you. I have thought before: What if the color I see as green, you see as pink in your mind. But because all your life you were taught that the color I would call pink was called green, you really see “pink” grass, but call it “green”.
You said:
Quote If a Man cannot sin, what is he? What man CANNOT sin? Jesus DIDN'T sin. That is not to say that he couldn't, is it? I don't think God ever created anything that CANNOT sin. He gave us all free will to choose, IMO.
You said:
Quote Lets continue to share our thoughts with love, and respect,
honor, and humility.Agreed. It's been a pleasure.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,02:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god.
Hi allNow Mike says that satan is not just the god of this world but he is also a “true god” and “a mighty god”! I thought “Mighty God” was a title given to Jesus?
But pay close attention to Mike’s words for it gets even worse; Mike says above that satan is….
THE SECOND MIGHTIEST BEING IN EXISTANCE, SO HE QUALIFIES AS A REAL GOD.
*THIS IS ANATHEMA!!!*
HMMM! I wonder if mike really thinks that satan is sitting at the Fathers right hand instead of Jesus!
And what about the Arch-Angels of God like Michael and Gabriel, according to Mike satan is greater than they!
This is one reason why I think Jack wanted to puke over what Mike believes!
WJ
Hi WJ,Jesus is the second mightiest being in existance. Not Satan. Read it (and next time try to post it) in context, please.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,02:59) Hi All Mike says….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He said the Father is the only true God.
But then he says…Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god.
Is anyone confused yet? Is this pure double talk? Yep.Am I missing something or does the word “Only” mean anything to Mike?
But now the worst part is he is calling satan a “true god” but then again says…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus.
So let me see if I understand, satan is a “true god” but not Jesus!But Mike will say Jesus is “a true god” but he is not his true god!
WJ
You ask if I know what the word “only” means.Do you? Paul says, “for us there is but [ONLY] one God, the Father”.
Is the Father your ONLY God, Keith?
You used to be better than this. You are turning into a Jack Jr, IMO.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,21:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,02:43) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god.
Hi allNow Mike says that satan is not just the god of this world but he is also a “true god” and “a mighty god”! I thought “Mighty God” was a title given to Jesus?
But pay close attention to Mike’s words for it gets even worse; Mike says above that satan is….
THE SECOND MIGHTIEST BEING IN EXISTANCE, SO HE QUALIFIES AS A REAL GOD.
*THIS IS ANATHEMA!!!*
HMMM! I wonder if mike really thinks that satan is sitting at the Fathers right hand instead of Jesus!
And what about the Arch-Angels of God like Michael and Gabriel, according to Mike satan is greater than they!
This is one reason why I think Jack wanted to puke over what Mike believes!
WJ
Hi WJ,Jesus is the second mightiest being in existance. Not Satan. Read it (and next time try to post it) in context, please.
peace and love,
mike
What?Here is the context…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) It's similar with Jesus. He said the Father is greater. He said the Father is the only true God. He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god. And he wasn't implying that he is not real. He is the second mightiest being in existance, so he qualifies as a real god. But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus. Not the Holy Spirit. Not some mixture of three. But the Father. Paul says the same thing. Only the Father is our God. Maybe you were half asleep or tired when you wrote this but it seems clear to me!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,08:37) Mike The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is my “Only True God”, for they are “One”, “One Spirit” Three persons, One God!
WJ
Hi WJ,So your God is different from the apostle Paul's God? Jesus calls only the Father “my God”. So your God is not the same as Jesus' God, either?
I'll follow scripture and try to emulate those righteous ones spoken of there, thanks.peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 28 2010,22:03) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 29 2010,02:59) Hi All Mike says….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He said the Father is the only true God.
But then he says…Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) He wasn't implying that Satan wasn't real. He knows that Satan is a true god.
Is anyone confused yet? Is this pure double talk? Yep.Am I missing something or does the word “Only” mean anything to Mike?
But now the worst part is he is calling satan a “true god” but then again says…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,23:39) But the Father is the only true God. Not Jesus.
So let me see if I understand, satan is a “true god” but not Jesus!But Mike will say Jesus is “a true god” but he is not his true god!
WJ
You ask if I know what the word “only” means.Do you? Paul says, “for us there is but [ONLY] one God, the Father”.
Is the Father your ONLY God, Keith?
You used to be better than this. You are turning into a Jack Jr, IMO.
peace and love,
mike
MikeAnd you are starting to be an “ad hominem” expert!
Yes, the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit is my “One true God!
There is One God, One Spirit, and three persons Mike.
That is the only way to reconcile all scriptural data!
You have the conundrum of having more than one god because The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is not “One” to you!
You are living in confusion Mike!
WJ
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