Matthew 28:19 authentic or not?

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,15:22)

Peirre Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,15:43) so if you want to make the trinity stand on Mat;28 ;19 last segment and only that segment ,Please answer all the questions. What are you talking about? The entire scripture tells us the The Father and The Son and The Holy Spirit shares a “singular name”. Now are you going to answer my question or was you telling the truth when you said after I answered yours you would answer mine? What is the “Name” of the Father and where in the NT is that name mentioned even once by Jesus or his followers? WJ

WJ

i mistake this quote for another one ,the previous one that is

pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,08:26)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:15) Quote  Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son?              This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here! Ed No it isn't. You haven't explained Jesus words. The three are distinct persons as the definite article and singular name proves. Why has Jesus mentioned the Three and not just the two if the Holy Spirit is the Father? WJ

Hi WJ,

You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question.
The Truth is: I did answer it, but you apparently did not like my answer; right?
Go back and re-read my response to you; it is right above your Post to me.
Then if you have any “further questions”, I will be glad to answer them.

You rewording your 'spun' question will not change the facts one bit!
If you're interested in information, ask a question requiring some!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:57)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,08:26) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:15) Quote  Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son?              This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here! Ed No it isn't. You haven't explained Jesus words. The three are distinct persons as the definite article and singular name proves. Why has Jesus mentioned the Three and not just the two if the Holy Spirit is the Father? WJ Hi WJ, You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question. The Truth is: I did answer it, but you apparently did not like my answer; right? Go back and re-read my response to you; it is right above your Post to me. Then if you have any “further questions”, I will be glad to answer them. You rewording your 'spun' question will not change the facts one bit! If you're interested in information, ask a question requiring some! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Forget it Ed.

You say you have ansered and I say it doesn't address the point so go your way and leave it at that.

Matthew 28:19 speaks of Three persons yet you say there is only two.

Bye Ed

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:57)

You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question.

Ed

I am shortening the post like t8 said and I didn't take you out of context.

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,08:33)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:27) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,06:42) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,14:28) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,05:22) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,13:18) WJ said: Quote The Holy Spirit “hears, speaks, thinks, searches, teaches, grieves, feels, loves, and yet you guys say he is not a person? If he is not a person then what is he? And He does not speak on His own authority.   Jack Amen! Jack What about that Marty and ED? If the Holy Spirit is the Father than why can't he speak on his own authority? WJ Hi WJ, What verse is Jack referring to? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: FOR HE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF HIMSELF; BUT WHATSOEVER HE SHALL HEAR, THAT SHALL HE SPEAK: and he will shew you things to come. John 13:16 WJ Hi WJ, It's nice to see you “edited” your Post! It PROVES you can change your mind! NOW… The word authority is NOT in John 16↔13; is it? Are you going to give a 'spun' excuse or admit it isn't there? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org HA HA ED. (1) If the Holy Spirit can only speak what he sees and hears then he is speaking by “anothers” authority is he not? (2) Why can't you see that the Father doesn't need to hear or see anything before he has to speak? (3) In the context of the verse the Holy Spirit takes from Jesus and gives to us. (4) How do you explain God having to take from Jesus to give to us? (5) How do you  explain Jesus sending the Father? WJ

Hi WJ,

1. NO!    You only speak what you have heard; right?   …must your words be on anther's authority?

2. Were talking about “God the Father” in YOU…   is not “God The Father” in you, Kieth?

3. Yes, and it's ultimately ALL “God The Father's”; or have you forgotten that?

4. I explain why in “Holy City Bible Code” (Click on link and request it);
    I cannot give you a “two sentence” answer to this question.

5. We discussed this before; have you forgotten? (Click Here) <– Third Post
    If you have any follow up questions, be sure to ask; OK?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,11:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) WHAT EXACTLY IS THIS “ONE NAME” THAT ENCOMPASSES FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT? The Apostles DID baptize in one name, the name JESUS CHRIST.  Do you think the Father and the Holy Spirit share the name JESUS CHRIST with the Son? mike Yes because the Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't do anything unless it is through Jesus name and it is by that “One Name” that we Glorify God and it is by that “One Name” that we can even approach God.

Hi Keith,

You're kidding, right? You think the name of our one true God, the Father, is JESUS CHRIST?

Do you not even know what “CHRIST” means?

Is the name of God, “Jesus, the ANOINTED OF GOD”?

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 10 2011,17:38)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,11:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2011,19:07) WHAT EXACTLY IS THIS “ONE NAME” THAT ENCOMPASSES FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT? The Apostles DID baptize in one name, the name JESUS CHRIST.  Do you think the Father and the Holy Spirit share the name JESUS CHRIST with the Son? mike Yes because the Father and the Holy Spirit doesn't do anything unless it is through Jesus name and it is by that “One Name” that we Glorify God and it is by that “One Name” that we can even approach God.   Hi Keith, You're kidding, right?    You think the name of our one true God, the Father, is JESUS CHRIST? Do you not even know what “CHRIST” means? Is the name of God, “Jesus, the ANOINTED OF GOD”?   mike

If Jesus is God and the scriptures say he is, then Yes the name of Jesus is shared as the name of God with the Holy Spirit.

When you invoke the name of Jesus you invoke the Father and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and all authority and power and all that God is? All fullness resides in him?

It is his name that is above every name and that name means “Jehovah Saves” and once again Hebrew name depicted the nature of the one that carried it.

Like the name “Emmanuel” which means “God with us”. That name was given to Jesus but would you say that it is not also the Fathers name?

Is there any other name that men are saved by Mike?

WJ

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,09:20)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:57) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,08:26) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:15) Quote  Why are the scriptures replete with examples of the Holy Spirit being “another” and not the Father or the Son?              This is a 'SPUN' question! The error is in your question, not any answer you might expect to here! Ed No it isn't. You haven't explained Jesus words. The three are distinct persons as the definite article and singular name proves. Why has Jesus mentioned the Three and not just the two if the Holy Spirit is the Father? WJ Hi WJ, You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question. The Truth is: I did answer it, but you apparently did not like my answer; right? Go back and re-read my response to you; it is right above your Post to me. Then if you have any “further questions”, I will be glad to answer them. You rewording your 'spun' question will not change the facts one bit! If you're interested in information, ask a question requiring some! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Forget it Ed. You say you have ansered and I say it doesn't address the point so go your way and leave it at that. Matthew 28:19 speaks of Three persons yet you say there is only two. Bye Ed

Hi WJ,

The word “PERSONS” does not occur in Matt.28:19; more 'spin'!
Did you (somehow) miss this part of my Post to you?…

      (Matthew 28:19)
      The name Father is [יה] YÄ,
      the name of the son is [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă,
      and the name of HolySpirit is [ישע] “SALVATION”!

YHVH saves us with his spirit through his son!

Jesus’ Name in Hebrew יהשוע means: “YÄ is salvation” ([יה]+[ישע]=[יהשוע]).

    “The Savior”(117) is “God The Father”(117) (Isaiah 45:21),

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,09:22)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:57) You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question. Ed I am shortening the post like t8 said and I didn't take you out of context. WJ

Hi WJ,

I didn't accuse you of any wrong doing?…   more 'spin' huh?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Worshipping Jesus]

Ed No the spin is you.

Are there not Three mentioned in Mattew 28:19 with the definite article?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,18:01)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,09:22) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 10 2011,16:57) You 'clipped' my answer…   and then insinuate  I didn't answer this question. Ed I am shortening the post like t8 said and I didn't take you out of context. WJ Hi WJ, I didn't accuse you of any wrong doing?…   more 'spin' huh?

Bye ED

[terraricca]

WJ

were are my answers ??

Pierre

[terraricca]

WJ

you are the only one i know were the vice president is also the president and that the project manager is also the president ,it does not matter if they are 3 different people ,you just rapping it up.

WJ- interpretation
Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,17:02)

Ed No the spin is you. Are there not Three mentioned in Mattew 28:19 with the definite article? WJ

WJ

yes but one is a thing not a person

Pierre

[terraricca]

all

maybe this scripture is only partially corrupt;Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son (with  )the Holy Spirit,

I just remove “and” and replace it with “with” this is now scriptural right??

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,18:13)

WJ were are my answers ?? Pierre

I didn't think you would be honest enough to back up your promise to answer my question when I answered yours.

Don't worry about it because you fall in the “unbeliever of all scripture in the Bible group” anyway. No matter what I say you will just deny the scriptures if it disagrees with your theology.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,17:24)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,18:13) WJ were are my answers ?? Pierre I didn't think you would be honest enough to back up your promise to answer my question when I answered yours. Don't worry about it because you fall in the “unbeliever of all scripture in the Bible group” anyway. No matter what I say you will just deny the scriptures if it disagrees with your theology. WJ

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 10 2011,18:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 11 2011,17:02) Ed No the spin is you. Are there not Three mentioned in Mattew 28:19 with the definite article? WJ WJ yes but one is a thing not a person Pierre

Prove it using scripture!

WJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 10 2011,11:45)

Your doubt of Matt 28:19 which is unambiguous is proof to me that no matter what, your doctrine is more important than the written word in the Bible. Even the JWs admit it is scripture!

Keith, 28:19 doesn't affect “my doctrine” in the least.  What 28:19 does is make me wonder why no Apostle did what Jesus clearly commanded them to do.  And if it doesn't make YOU wonder, then it is YOU who holds his doctrine a little too close to his heart.

Keith, I could believe you if you said, “Yeah, to be honest, the fact that no Apostle ever baptized with that formula makes me wonder a little bit, like everyone else in the history of the world who's ever studied this scripture.” But you won't do that. You hold that there is absolutely nothing odd about the fact that Jesus said “A”, and the Apostles did “B”.

Even the trinitarian scholars “WONDER” about it.  But not Keith.    Keith has it all figured out that God's real name is “Jesus, Anointed One of God”.  

Here's what you have on your side of this:
1.  There has yet to be found (at least admittedly) a ms that doesn't say, “the Father, Son and Holy Spirit”.

2.  The scripture, as is, could be understood to be talking about ONE NAME that encompasses all three.

Here's what we have on our side:
1.  The scripture, as is, could be taken to mean, “the name of the Father, [the name of] the Son, and [the name of] the Holy Spirit”…………..thereby making it THREE NAMES instead of one.  (Similar to John speaking of the THRONE of God and of the Lamb, which obviously means “the Throne of God and [the throne] of the Lamb”, since we're already clearly told there are TWO thrones.)

2.  Trinitarians HAVE altered God's Written Word before, so this wouldn't be the first time.

3.  Pope Benedict wrote that the Catholic Church changed the baptism formula in the 2nd century.  (Jack points out that “formula” doesn't necessarily mean “scripture”, and he is right.  But if 28:19 is legit, then why weren't they already USING that formula?  Why would they have to CHANGE TO that formula?  What formula were they using prior to the change…………and why were they using that one at first?)    

4.  Eusebius claimed to have the original text of Matthew, and said the words were, “in my name”.

5.  “In my name” makes more sense because that's exactly how the Apostles DID baptize.

6.  The “ONE NAME” you have settled with is “Jesus Christ”.  So your claim is that our God, the Father, has the name of “Jesus, the Anointed One of God”.

7.  And finally, EVEN AS IS, IT SPEAKS NOTHING ABOUT ANY TRINITY GODHEAD.

Number 7 is the bottom line, Keith.  Some of us thought we might be able to have an honest discussion with you about how odd it is that no Apostle followed Jesus' command about how to baptize.  But you have apparently blinded yourself even more than the Catholic Encyclopedia scholars who at least admit it is “ALTOGETHER UNLIKELY” that Jesus would have promulgated one thing and the Apostles did another.

So you hold on tight to 28:19 as long as you can, okay?  But while you're holding on to it, just remember that even as is, it's not even close to a trinity proof text, and says absolutely nothing about any trinity Godhead. Like David keeps telling you, it only proves that you can count to three.  

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 10 2011,12:10)

Mike said: Quote We know God's Son's name is Jesus. Yeap! The name “Jesus” means “YHWH saves.” “For you shall call His name 'Jesus' for HE shall save HIS people from their sins.”   KJ

Really Jack?  And what does that prove?  Should I post the list of all the people mentioned in the Bible that had some form of YHWH in their names?

mike

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