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Quote (JustAskin @ May 02 2010,00:51) Edj, You are mistaking me for someone else.
I have no paradoxical problem concerning Jesus.
How do you find that in my posts. That, is your paradox!In any case, I'm trying to give space for people to criticize my post to WJ concerning the topic of this thread.
Post about that.
I want to hear my critics. I want WJ to have every chance to call me out.
Post about that, if, indeed, there is anything to post against me, and then, if not, then post against WJ.
That is the point of this thread.
Hi JustAskin,What we have here is a lack of communication (Cool hand Luke).
Maybe this will help you understand what it's taking me now my third or forth Post to you.Jesus is viewed as a “Paradox”!
The “Trinitarians” say 'Jesus is God' and the “Non-Trinitarians” say 'Jesus is not God'.
Do you understand what a “Paradox” is now?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEdj,
I only have one post on page 4.
I can't copy/paste in this editor on my mobile.
(t8 is using a 'textarea' style inputbox for editing and not a 'textbox'. The 'textarea' won't let me copy text. This Webbrowser on this mobile (Nokia 5800, great music phone) doesn't let me copy text, either.
Opera mobile browser screws up big time – waste of time, they sllow edit but screws up when I paste. Huh, perhaps that's why the N5800 doesn't allow copying from webpage, but I do webpages/website/Blackberry Mobile apps…or rather, I can… And know how to resolve the problem, paradoxically, but how to get Nokia to acknowledge problem?God, edj, who do you take me for?
I thought you were saying that I had a paradox concerning Jesus.
I keep saying that I have no problem.
If trinitarians have that problem, that is their problem.Why did you start all this anyway.
If it was for my refinement then you coming on too strong, too deep, too soon. Do you have a wife…then you will know…
Quote (JustAskin @ May 02 2010,01:12) God, edj, who do you take me for? I thought you were saying that I had a paradox concerning Jesus.
I keep saying that I have no problem.
If trinitarians have that problem, that is their problem.Why did you start all this anyway.
If it was for my refinement then you coming on too strong, too deep, too soon. Do you have a wife…then you will know…
Hi JustAskin,If Jesus truly exists as a Paradox (as some are now suggesting),
then the Trinitarian and Non-Trinitarian views would BOTH be correct.
Whenever either side would say their view is correct, they would be right.
They would 'only' be wrong when they accuse the other side of being wrong. (Matt.7:2)Edj,
My spirit is groaning…
Why do you bring this thing here?Do you just want to talk about another theory? Start a thread!
Paradox? Only if you want it to be.
This is what phylosophers do to keep themselves employed (Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy)Now, enough!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,08:42) The Trinity is here to stay, and Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity. Unfortunately for the ATs the evidence overwhelmingly support the Holy Scriptures as a Trinitarian book, even if they do not believe the three are “One”, they must accept this Bible truth or get their white out and blot out the verse in their Christology. Anyone care to comment?
Blessings WJ
Yes, and so is the concept of evolution and no God at all.
Baptising them in the name of the Father, which is Jehovah.
And in the name of the son, which is Jesus.
and in the name of the Holy Spirit, which is
?Georg
Quote (karmarie @ May 02 2010,00:03) Even my child can understand There is God, then there is His Son… Never mind.
Hi Karmarie,Exactly!
25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes. 26 Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you.
Any kid can see it.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Elizabeth @ May 01 2010,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,08:42) The Trinity is here to stay, and Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity. Unfortunately for the ATs the evidence overwhelmingly support the Holy Scriptures as a Trinitarian book, even if they do not believe the three are “One”, they must accept this Bible truth or get their white out and blot out the verse in their Christology. Anyone care to comment?
Blessings WJ
Yes, and so is the concept of evolution and no God at all.
Baptising them in the name of the Father, which is Jehovah.
And in the name of the son, which is Jesus.
and in the name of the Holy Spirit, which is?Georg
GeorgeThats not what the Apostles did is it?
Whos name will you call on to be saved?
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ May 02 2010,01:00) Hi JustAskin, What we have here is a lack of communication (Cool hand Luke).
Hi Ed,Wasn't it “a failure to comunicate”? Or was that “Smokey and the Bandit”?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,11:32) Quote (karmarie @ May 02 2010,00:03) Even my child can understand There is God, then there is His Son… Never mind.
Hi Karmarie,Exactly!
25 At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to babes. 26 Yes, O Father, because to do thus came to be the way approved by you.
Any kid can see it.
peace and love,
mike
MikeWhen are you guys going to talk about Matthew 28:19 and its authentictiy which is proof that “a Trinity” exist.
Let me see the AT logic goes like this…
Because I am the Son of my Father is proof I am not human!
Men only knew what Jesus being the Only Unique Son of God meant by revelation.
Nothing has changed!
WJ
Quote (Elizabeth @ May 01 2010,10:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,08:42) The Trinity is here to stay, and Matthew 28:19 is unambiguous evidence that the early Apostles and Church Fathers believed in a Trinity. Unfortunately for the ATs the evidence overwhelmingly support the Holy Scriptures as a Trinitarian book, even if they do not believe the three are “One”, they must accept this Bible truth or get their white out and blot out the verse in their Christology. Anyone care to comment?
Blessings WJ
Yes, and so is the concept of evolution and no God at all.
Baptising them in the name of the Father, which is Jehovah.
And in the name of the son, which is Jesus.
and in the name of the Holy Spirit, which is?Georg
GeorgeAccording to Matt 28:19 the Holy Spirit does have a name, right?
Or do you like Irene and NH and others just clip it out of your Bible?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2010,03:47) Mike When are you guys going to talk about Matthew 28:19 and its authentictiy which is proof that “a Trinity” exist.
Let me see the AT logic goes like this…
Because I am the Son of my Father is proof I am not human!
Men only knew what Jesus being the Only Unique Son of God meant by revelation.
Nothing has changed!
WJ
Why don't you answer to the posts where I did discuss Matt? What do you want? I gave my thoughts, I gave the JW's thoughts (who gave Strong's thoughts), I pointed out that it is clear that Eusebius didn't belive in a trinity.You said:
Quote Because I am the Son of my Father is proof I am not human! No, we believe that “because I am the Son of my Father is proof that I CANNOT actually BE the same being as my Father.”
You said:
Quote Men only knew what Jesus being the Only Unique Son of God meant by revelation. They go and ask some 8 year olds about the trinity. They are the ones it has been “revealed” to. And why do you continue to use the “only unique son” when Eusebius makes it clear that begotten means begotten?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2010,03:47) Mike When are you guys going to talk about Matthew 28:19 and its authentictiy which is proof that “a Trinity” exist.
Let me see the AT logic goes like this…
Because I am the Son of my Father is proof I am not human!
Men only knew what Jesus being the Only Unique Son of God meant by revelation.
Nothing has changed!
WJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) Why don't you answer to the posts where I did discuss Matt?
No you did not address that there are three mentioned by Jesus who have a singular name and are arthrous. This is in response to your claim that there is not even a hint of a Trinity mentioned in the Bible from another thread, but Matt 28:19 by Jesus own words says there is “a Trinity”.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) What do you want?
The Truth, how about you?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) I gave my thoughts, I gave the JW's thoughts (who gave Strong's thoughts), I pointed out that it is clear that Eusebius didn't belive in a trinity.
Right, read the whole post, Eusebius was a prominent figure at the Nicene Council. As far as the Jws they only give their opinions and no proof that a “Trinity” is not mentioned.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) You said: Quote Because I am the Son of my Father is proof I am not human! No, we believe that “because I am the Son of my Father is proof that I CANNOT actually BE the same being as my Father.”
But you and your Father are not God.Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) You said: Quote Men only knew what Jesus being the Only Unique Son of God meant by revelation.
They go and ask some 8 year olds about the trinity.
You won't find them in Kingdom Hall true. But all the 8 year olds in my Church and many others know Jesus as there God. You say he is “a god” but yet he is not your god Mike. What gives?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 01 2010,12:05) They are the ones it has been “revealed” to. And why do you continue to use the “only unique son” when Eusebius makes it clear that begotten means begotten?
Go and learn what Eusebius and the Church Fathers believed Mike. Though they may use the word Begotten it would be in relationship to his incarnation or his election.As I said Eusebius was a prominant figure at the Nicene Council and they did not believe Jesus had a beginning or came into existence except during the incarnation when he came into existence in the likeness of human flesh.
So therefore Mike Begotten to them could not mean what you say it means. Sorry the Church Fathers and the scriptures disagree with you!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,17:41) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,23:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,12:16) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:10) WJ you got it all wrong the fact that it is written in the scriptures and is a lie does not make it a truth.
TSo the scripture Matt 28:19 is a lie?
WJ
WJMt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”IF YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRIST SPIRIT YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN THOSE TWO VERSES THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN IT.
TYes, I notice you find a lot of wrong in the scriptures!
Sorry what you say is untrue!
WJ
WJwell it take the truth to watch over the deceivers trinitarians
if the trinity is true then the Jews were kept ignorant of there God.
and have worshiped the wrong God,
if the Jews worshiped the true God then there is no trinity.
and the apostles are all truthful,
and Mat;28;19 is a addition from the deceivers trinitarians
THow do you know that the scriptures you like are not additions?
You take away any credibility that the scriptures has and your right to claim that any of it is true!
WJ
WJyou like always you do not answer the questions,
you only run around .
again is the God of the Jews the true God or not ??
direct question give a direct answer.
again is the God worshiped by the Jews a trinity ?
were the Jews deceived by there God believing that he was one;??
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,17:41) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,23:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,12:16) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:10) WJ you got it all wrong the fact that it is written in the scriptures and is a lie does not make it a truth.
TSo the scripture Matt 28:19 is a lie?
WJ
WJMt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”IF YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRIST SPIRIT YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN THOSE TWO VERSES THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN IT.
TYes, I notice you find a lot of wrong in the scriptures!
Sorry what you say is untrue!
WJ
WJwell it take the truth to watch over the deceivers trinitarians
if the trinity is true then the Jews were kept ignorant of there God.
and have worshiped the wrong God,
if the Jews worshiped the true God then there is no trinity.
and the apostles are all truthful,
and Mat;28;19 is a addition from the deceivers trinitarians
THow do you know that the scriptures you like are not additions?
You take away any credibility that the scriptures has and your right to claim that any of it is true!
WJ
Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) WJ you like always you do not answer the questions,
you only run around .
Didn't see any questions in your post, look for yourself!Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) again is the God of the Jews the true God or not ??
God is not the God of all natural Jews. The True Israel of God is spiritual now!Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) direct question give a direct answer.
I did.Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) again is the God worshiped by the Jews a trinity ?
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. “And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him“.
Yep the Apostles were natural Jews that worshipped Jesus and called him their Lord and God, and spoke of the “three” in Matthew 28:19.Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) were the Jews deceived by there God believing that he was one;??
Have you forgotten it was the Jews that also were responsible for his crucifixtion. They rejected him on grounds of making himself equal to God by claiming to be the “Only Son of God” and that God was his personal Father.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. “HE CAME UNTO HIS OWN AND HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT“. John 1:10, 11
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 02 2010,06:29) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,17:41) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,23:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:48) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 01 2010,12:16) Quote (terraricca @ April 30 2010,20:10) WJ you got it all wrong the fact that it is written in the scriptures and is a lie does not make it a truth.
TSo the scripture Matt 28:19 is a lie?
WJ
WJMt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”IF YOU WOULD HAVE UNDERSTANDING OF CHRIST SPIRIT YOU WOULD SEE THAT IN THOSE TWO VERSES THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG IN IT.
TYes, I notice you find a lot of wrong in the scriptures!
Sorry what you say is untrue!
WJ
WJwell it take the truth to watch over the deceivers trinitarians
if the trinity is true then the Jews were kept ignorant of there God.
and have worshiped the wrong God,
if the Jews worshiped the true God then there is no trinity.
and the apostles are all truthful,
and Mat;28;19 is a addition from the deceivers trinitarians
THow do you know that the scriptures you like are not additions?
You take away any credibility that the scriptures has and your right to claim that any of it is true!
WJ
Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) WJ you like always you do not answer the questions,
you only run around .
Didn't see any questions in your post, look for yourself!Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) again is the God of the Jews the true God or not ??
God is not the God of all natural Jews. The True Israel of God is spiritual now!Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) direct question give a direct answer.
I did.Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) again is the God worshiped by the Jews a trinity ?
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. “And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him“.
Yep the Apostles were natural Jews that worshipped Jesus and called him their Lord and God, and spoke of the “three” in Matthew 28:19.Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,13:30) were the Jews deceived by there God believing that he was one;??
Have you forgotten it was the Jews that also were responsible for his crucifixtion. They rejected him on grounds of making himself equal to God by claiming to be the “Only Son of God” and that God was his personal Father.He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. “HE CAME UNTO HIS OWN AND HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT“. John 1:10, 11
WJ
WJyou answer the wrong questions;
i knew that would be your way;my question;is the God of Israel(nation in Moses time) the true God?
you answer;
God is not the God of all natural Jews. The True Israel of God is spiritual now!my second question;;
were the Jews deceived by there God believing that he was one;??you answered;;
Have you forgotten it was the Jews that also were responsible for his crucifixtion. They rejected him on grounds of making himself equal to God by claiming to be the “Only Son of God” and that God was his personal Father.
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. “HE CAME UNTO HIS OWN AND HIS OWN RECEIVED HIM NOT”. John 1:10, 11
this does not answered the question.
my next question;
again is the God worshiped by the Jews a trinity ?your answered;;
And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. “And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him”.
Yep the Apostles were natural Jews that worshipped Jesus and called him their Lord and God, and spoke of the “three” in Matthew 28:19.again you did not answer the question,
SO MAY GOD GIVE YOUR REWARD ACCORDING TO YOUR TRUTHFULLNESS OF YOUR HEART AND KNOWLEDGE.
Hey Mike,
“I only said to blow the [WJ's] doors off”. Michael Cain, The Italian Job.
I made him an offer he couldn't refuse (and he did refuse), paraphrased, the GodFather, the movie, not the book, he never said it in the book!
Hey WJ,
Sorry, I almost forgot to ask how ya doing in your claim against me?
Hmmm….8 pages so far!
Send me a PM, if you like. I am agreeable with that, no need for everyone to see.
See, I even plead for space for honest response on your behalf.
When your adversary takes you to court, make every effort to make an agreement before you arrive…lest your embarassment becomes public knowledge!
Quote (terraricca @ May 01 2010,14:46) WJ you answer the wrong questions;
i knew that would be your way;
TYour questions are irrelevant if they are not in light of the NT Jew and Apostles!
This discussion is about the NT scripture Matthew 28:19 which is inspired by God through the Apostle Matthew.
But you do not believe in this scripture so why should I discuss OT scripture with you, for if I show you God is plural in the OT you will just claim the scriptures are not true but a lie.
WJ
Quote (JustAskin @ May 01 2010,14:51) Hey WJ, Sorry, I almost forgot to ask how ya doing in your claim against me?
Hmmm….8 pages so far!
Send me a PM, if you like. I am agreeable with that, no need for everyone to see.
See, I even plead for space for honest response on your behalf.
When your adversary takes you to court, make every effort to make an agreement before you arrive…lest your embarassment becomes public knowledge!
JAThis isn't about you. I never mentioned you in my opening post did I?
You quit the debate in the debates thread and now you want to engage me here!
WJ
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