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Mikeboll said to WJ:
Quote The Father isn't taught by anyone. WJ answered:
Quote This is not an attribute Mike!
Never the less, Jesus was only taught in the days of his flesh when he had emptied himself to come in the likeness of sinful flesh.TO ALL:
A point of clarification needs to be made here. When Jesus said that He was “taught” He was speaking in reference to what He should speak and when to speak it.
28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on my own authority; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things. John 8:58
Jesus spoke nothing on His own initiative. He spoke only what His Father instructed Him to speak and when His Father instructed Him to say it. Therefore, in context Jesus was NOT saying that He learned truth from His Father but that He was instructed in the dispensing of truth.
This is always what Jesus meant when He said that He was “taught” by His Father. He did not speak truth on His own initiative but was taught what to say and when to say it.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi KJ,
Do you think we all swallow the rationalisations you develop to preserve your babylonian dogma?
We have a teacher thanks.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2010,07:15) Hi KJ,
Do you think we all swallow the rationalisations you develop to preserve your babylonian dogma?
We have a teacher thanks.
Nick,Jesus explicitly said that His Father commanded Him what TO SPEAK,
49 For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. John 12:49
This goes with John 8:28 which I have already given:
28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing on my own authority; but as My Father taught Me, I speak
Jesus said that He did nothing on His own authority but was taught what He should speak.
It is clear Nick! Jesus was taught what to speak and when to speak it. This is how Jesus was “taught” by His Father.
KJ
WJ,
You don't need to answer my questions.
I don't need you to answer my questions.I'm not asking you questions because I don't know the answer. I ask the question to try and help, guide you to the truth.
You are at perfectly liberty to not respond…and i have mentioned this to you before … That you entertain too many posts.
Do you agree that I said so. Do you agree that you do not need to respond, are not compelled to respond to every post?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 29 2010,12:04) Hi Dennison, You said:
Quote I would rather accpet it as a theory but not as truth right away. Becuase we dont know. And lets say we were debating this, i would have to speculate with you in order to meet your arguement. I agree somewhat. But how do we know what a certain scripture means? At some point, we have to stop straddling the fence and take a leap of faith, IMO. It's like your “angels were sons of god” point against Roo. Scripture doesn't actually say it, but the brain that God gave you is smart enough to reason, “This is day three… men weren't around until day six…THEREFORE, it must have been heavenly creatures that were spoken of as sons of God. I think it is for doing that very thing that you are warning me.
But if I ever say something like I know it for a fact, don't hesitate to call me on it. I will happily explain the scripture(s) that lead me to believe that way.You said:
Quote ARe you saying that we are smart enough to lead off points? I think we should have scripture to back our interpretations of other scriptures.
You said:
Quote So God is not omnipresent… so HE can be absent? Okay, fair enough. Let's change my analogy to Phaoah just sitting on the sidelines and watching how Joseph does for a while instead of leaving town. Does it change the rest of my analogy?
You said:
Quote What is God doing? sitting back while his Son takes the wheel? Yes. Remember He said He was installing a King that would rule with righteousness? Did God Almighty install God Almighty as King on Zion? Didn't He sit back and let David take the wheel in Israel?
You said:
Quote I thought that the Anti-Trin arguement was that God never shared his glory with anyone…. When does scripture say that He does? Jesus has his own glory, just like the glory Jesus spoke of Solomon having. To my knowledge, scripture never tells of God sharing His glory with another. Does it?
You said:
Quote Who does give Jesus new name? does scripture say? Not exactly, no. But consider this:
Hebrews 1:4 NIV
So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.Though the scripture doesn't spell it out, I can reasonably assume that I cannot “inherit” a name from you that you do not know. And consider this:
Revelation 2:17 NIV
To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.Can Jesus GIVE to someone a name that he himself does not even know? So now, the scripture in question:
Revelation 19:12 NIV
His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.God sees all. The name is written on him. Therefore God sees the name. He inherited the name. From whom? But what if, as you have suggested, Jesus IS God. Then this will all work, right? But you only have to read verse 15 to know this one with the new name is not God Almighty.
He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
He (someone other than God Almighty) treads the winepress of the wrath of God Almighty. Make sense?
You said:
Quote But he has all authority and power like your example about Joseph, i can also speculate that Jesus now knows everything. Yes. But do you have any scripture at all that supports this? That would be a far cry from me speculating that Mount Zion doesn't have a uterus, don't you think?
You said:
Quote As in the other thread, thats what i was trying to do with everyone referring with John 10. I didn't post very much in that thread – too crowded at the time, and you had everyone throwing everything at you all at once. I will be happy to discuss it with you now, though.
The first problem I find with it is this: The trinitarians like to say it means John knew him to be equal to God. But then they explain away John 14:28 by saying Jesus was “in a limited state” when he said the Father was greater. I saw you post that yourself. But you can't have it both ways. Either he was in a limited state and therefore the Father really was greater, or he was equal to the Father. Which is it?
Nice chattin' with ya,
peace and love,
mike
Hey mike,Im going to be very short for once lol.
“–” Means referring to the next point or qoute. I got lazy sorry.The Angel point you metioned, is not that we are smart, when i was younger i thought it was the literal sons of God coming up to God because they all were doing something. obviously i was wrong. I know what I Know, for one i studied Hebrew, i learned what they meant by the Word, i notice other places in scripture that metnions bene-elohim to compare. I have seen the point you made about day three to six. and obvousily studying in the BIble how heaven works, with the order of angels also helps understand who has a right to be in the presence of God. Satan somehow was part fo that group, than i had to study what a cheribum is. So on and so forth, to understand one scripture. its not because i was smart, its becuase the answer was within the entire bible. How can i understand the end if i dont understand the Beggining. Its like a story between God and Man, that we are trying to understand. There are open times to sepculate, but to dispute/debate/or discuss while interpreting scripture cannot be based on what is not written. You and I can think whatever we want to think, but scripture is clear. If we focus on that, than what you and i think is irrevalent.
trust me when i say that i didnt know for a
long time that the sons of God were the angels. KJ has just discovered this. you see.. our very mind is a ant compared to God. we really have to get closer to understand. To Examine the word, and ourselves. Our own thuoghts.I said i was going to be short right? oh well im not..!!!
—
lol you changed the Analogy? lol ya it does bro. Why do i say this, you make Jesus sound like a God in training.—
lol did david really ever take the Wheel? or did he hang out with the neighbors wife, as her husband was being killed. (did i get that story right?) God wants to be the very center of our lives. lets analyze God for a second. how did he react to the jews who wanted a King. didnt God tell the Judge that they didnt reject the Judge but were rejecting God himself for asking for a king? God felt rejected.
—
But thats my point!! hey dont steal my point.
Im saying he doesnt, beacuse you make it seem Jesus does!your basicallying singing that Cari underwood song, Jesus take the Wheel.
If he doesnt share glory, whats up with Jesus having to rule everything, even our hearts.
and Solomon,…. well his glory wasnt all of that. It was based on God, and his reputation ended with… having to many cucubines.
—
Revelatinos 2:17– i thought this was referring to Us. ill go back and check again later.
Unless Jesus is God, that scripture doesnt make sense, just because God sees all. ACtually he cant, doesnt Habbuk state that his eyes are to pure to see evil or wickness?
Whats the point to having a new name?
I see that God has a fettish with names. The hebrews also find it very important to name their kids with something specific in mind.
—
Winepress: isnt that the cup that Jesus drank from that he didnt want? the Wrath of God? if you agree, than i will extend after you next reply.—
We are speculating, we are stating what is not said. why does scripture say that Jesus is the same yesturday, today and tomorow? than in revelations states that he says he is the Alpha and the Omega?
—
Thank you so much! very considerate! i did feel a bit overwhelmed. it was too many people at once. =)
—
When i first claimed the “Limited State” Card, i was reffering to the next chapters. as the debate continued, i try to kindof keep the focus on John 10, by also mentioning that before Jesus said that the Father and himself are one, that he said that the Father is greater than everything. Yet the Jews still took it wrong what he said. they understood because, they ask for him to speak Plainly. Which Jesus has every ability too. Everytime he did, they wanted to kill him.To add to your questions. We know that Angels are like crazy molded beings. We know there are not two alike. they are not even a race, they are individual creatures each with its tasks. Question? How do the angels who have mighty powers, and are even mentioned to be the lesser light, can limit there very powers to a humanlike form? How is it that angels came as visitors many times. how about the visitor from Joseph about his brother whereabouts. how about the guys who came to visit Abraham, and one was unto the like of the Son of God. (I think, i could be wrong) and the many other times angels were mentioned taking human form. they are known as strangers, visitors, however you like.
the ultimate question: If God wanted to, can he limit his state to become physically human, yet at the same time still be omnipresent spiritualy. To say that God cannot be physical means he is not omnipresent.
Tell me what you think brother,
Much love,
nice talking to you too.Quote (JustAskin @ May 29 2010,22:25) Mike, Dennison,
Who does Jesus give his name…'to him/them that overcome.'
Huh?Quote (Arnold @ May 28 2010,15:09) To All! I have often wondered why if the Catholic Church teaches wrong doctrines, that those that believe in the trinity believe so, cause it is that Church that was the first Church. They first of all believed that the first Pope was Peter. They believed that they wrote the Bible, not the Apostles. Now it all started with what was known as the Roman Universal Church. But that was not before the third century when Constantine after almost three Centuries of brutal and bloody persecution issued an edit allowing the Christians to practise their religion. Shortly after in 321 Constantine issued an edit forbidding work on Sundays and making it the day of worship. No Sabbath. Being persecuted for so long they compromised and so much was changed. Even our Calendar. We go by the Roman Calendar now. All Holy Days became Holidays. Lev. 23 In 325 Constantine established the Roman Universal Church to be the official religion of his empire. There is a lot more, but the point I am trying to make is this. Out of that Church came all other Churches and along with it the trinity Doctrine….And it was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian who came up with the trinity. It is said that that was his best achievement to Christianity. He was born in A.D. 155 to Pagan Parents. The Apostles did not believe in a trinity. There are several Scriptures that prove to me how wrong it is.
Deut. 4:35 “Unto Thee it was shewed that thou mightiest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else besides Him.”
Deut. 6:4 “Hear O Israel, The LORD our God in one LORD.
Notice in both Scriptures LORD is in capital letters.1 Corinth. 8:4 “But that there is none other God but ONE.”
Ephesians 4:6………one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.”John 14:28 by Jesus own words He said this
….My Father is greater then I.”1Corinth. 11:3The Head of every man is Christ, the Head of Christ is God.”
So is Math. 29:19 then false? No, what that verse teaches us is how we are Baptized. When it says in the Holy Spirit, someone told us once that it should say In the name of the Father and of the Son and of His Holy Spirit.
Also if the Holy Spirit is a Person like the trinity claims, then He is the Father of Jesus. And we do know that is not so.
So it is God's Holy Spirit and not of the Holy Spirit making it a Him…..
Also we do know that there are some errors in order to make the trinity authentic…..yes, if you want to believe that the Holy Spirit is Jesus Father, I do not….
Math. 15:9 “But in vain they do worship Me teaching for doctrine and comamandment of men.” The trinity is a man made doctrine and not of God….Peace and Love Irene
Irene,So that you wont feel ignored,
Let me explain why i didnt respond to your post,
so that i can end Mike's hi fives reign of terror.First, When i saw that you posted your thoughts about the Catholic doctrine,
dont take it the wrong way, but i didnt see what this had to do with the thread. I saw Catholic, and im like what….
so ignored it and moved…..
Now that im looking at it again, i didnt understand all the info you put until your very last analysis. even though it wasnt clear what your trying to argue until you made some very breif comments.In the end i would have to disagree.
your last scripture. doesnt disprove Trinity, you forgot context.
before:
8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
12Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
Our very heart is the problem. Thanks analysising this scripture just added more to my thesis, about the Heart being problem. Yet people say you have to accept Jesus into your heart, sincerely than you will be saved. yet the heart is wicked….
(I love you very much)
Oh and so that you can understand me,
I have been a judge for Debate for many years now, in Highschool i was also in debate, so sometimes when i look at something and its not clear to what is being refuted, i would probably ignore it. note: also im not really debating much in these forums. i try to hold myself back, by examining myself, because i dont want to debate so that I can be right, i would happily discuss for the honor and Glory of God, not for myself, or my own beliefs. I dont want to be Right, I want God to have all honor. I have really changed my way of talking to people. When people debate, one tends to create a wall, that we are the only ones right, they are wrong 100percent. i have finally broken that wall in my mind and heart. so please do not take me the wrong way.Much love,
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 30 2010,05:24) Goo goo ga ga! Jesus PLAINLY said after His resurrection that “ALL power and authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth“. ALL power and authority means exactly what it says. Again I say “goo goo ga ga” to your speech Gene.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Roo,Then ALL POWER must mean that the Father has none. Is that how you see it?
mike
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 30 2010,05:49) This is only partly true. Because the Bible says we are not to even “serve them”, yet we see men in the Bible dying for Jesus and serving him with absolute unreserved devotion.
Hi WJ,Don't you think it means to only worship and serve Jehovah AS GOD? Do you think it really means we cannot serve someone a cup of coffee?
peace and love,
mikeMike,
It's as I said.WJ agrees with what I have written but his pride won't allow him to say so. So he feigns a ridiculous, plainly crafted, response just to say he responded.
What was written was quite clear and unambiguous. There was no purpose to that response other than as I just said.
Hello Dennison,
It took you lots of studying to come to you conclusion that angels are the sons of God. Thanks for the ground work. All I needed was your logic that if it was said on day three, then it couldn't have been men.
You said:
Quote You and I can think whatever we want to think, but scripture is clear. If we focus on that, than what you and i think is irrevalent. And how do we know what scripture says if we don't think? If scripture says Jesus is the Son of God, and never says anything to the contrary, then I think that Jesus is God's Son. Why do you and others think he is God?
You said:
Quote But thats my point!! hey dont steal my point.
Im saying he doesnt, beacuse you make it seem Jesus does!What point? This “lazy” idea doesn't work to well. I have to go back to try to find out what point of mine you're even answering to.
You said:
Quote Unless Jesus is God, that scripture doesnt make sense, just because God sees all. ACtually he cant, doesnt Habbuk state that his eyes are to pure to see evil or wickness? Again, I don't know what scripture you're talking about. And I'm pretty sure that God sees all. He even sees the sins people try to do in the dark to keep Him from seeing them.
This is too much work, Dennison. If you want, you can respond to my post and put my quotes in so I know which point you're referreing to and when. I hope you do so we can continue our discussion.
peace and love,
mikeHi MB,
Those sons of God rejoiced when the foundations of earth were laid.[Jb 38]
Some too left their appointed abode and married women[gen6]Hi WJ,
You said:
Quote First of all unlike you I respond to all of your points… Once again let me reiterate something here, I will respond to post on this board when I choose and not when you expect me to.
But it's only one question. A yes or no answer will suffice.
You said:
Quote There is no scripture that unambiguously says Jesus the Word that was with God and was God had a beginning! Sure there is. There are many. All the ones that say he was begotten and of creation.
You said:
Quote Even so the Father never speaks with out Jesus “The Word” and the Holy Spirit! So Jesus always speaks what he wants because his words are the Words of God! That doesn't even make sense. First, was the Father ever told or taught what to say? Second, Jesus speaks not what he wants, but what the Father tells him to.
You said:
Quote Never the less, Jesus was only taught in the days of his flesh What scripture tells you this?
You said:
Quote This is a function or role of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit but has nothing to do with the nature or ontology of the three. Oh that's right. They are equally God, but one of them is the boss of the other two.
You go ahead and worship the other two. I'll stick to worshipping their boss.You said:
Quote I agree. But again this is not an attribute Mike. I am talking about attributes “of” God Mike not titles! You agree that the Father is the only true God? Is the Father your ONLY God, WJ?
You said:
Quote Again this is not an attribute Mike. But even so if I say “Spirit of Man” am I not talking about man? No. You would be talking about his spirit.
You said:
Quote God is a Spirit, so the Spirit of God is God, right? Close. The Spirit of God is a possession of God. He uses His Spirit to accomplish His will. The Spirit never uses God to accomplish it's will. And God is never said to be OF the Spirit. Do you see the difference?
You said:
Quote you have only shown “One” attribute above that the Father is eternal and you have a few unambiguous scriptures that you think implies Jesus isn’t eternal, and you sure have nothing that says the Holy Spirit is not eternal! Unambiguous? He was caused to exist by his God and Father. What more do you want? Okay then, he died. Is that enough? And since the Holy Spirit OF God is a part OF God, of course it is eternal. I would also assume that as part OF God, His eyes are eternal also.
You said:
Quote Yep, because God is a Spirit which means that the Holy Spirit of God is God. Angels are spirits OF God, since they came from Him. Are they God? Mankind is OF God, are we God?
You said:
Quote Jesus is the Son of God because he came in the flesh, But Jesus was the Son of God BEFORE he came in the flesh. God SENT His Son INTO the world.
You said:
Quote Your confusion is you think the title God identifies only the Father as a person when referring to the “Only True God”. But Jesus didn't say that the one spirit who is Father, Son and Spirit combined is the only true God, just the Father. Likewise with Paul. He actually spelled out for us that the Father is our only God, and Jesus is someone other than that only God. Why would Paul say that when it says everything has been put under Jesus, the “everything” doesn't include God? If Jesus actually WAS God, why would he make that distinction? He doesn't say “the Father”, he says “God”. As in Jesus is one person he is talking about, and God is a person different from Jesus. Again, it's not “the Father” who is the different person from Jesus, but “God”.
You said:
Quote Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 27 2010,21:27) The Holy Spirit in and of itself has NO authority.
No that’s not what you said Mike! This is what you said…Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 12 2010,21:56) One last point: You mentioned to Marty that the Holy Spirit had power and authority. Where does Scripture say that “the Holy Spirit has authority over anything?
See the bold part? That contradicts what you are now saying.It's not a contradiction at all. The Holy Spirit doesn't have authority over anything. I just had to add the words “in and of itself” to make clear to you what should have been clear.
The Holy Spirit is not a being. It is a part of God. So if the Holy Spirit commands you to keep believing in the trinity because it helps to expand the
knowledge of others who believe what the Bible actually teaches, it is not the authority of the Holy Spirit you are under. It is the authority of God COMMUNICATED THROUGH His Holy Spirit.You said:
Quote The Spirit had authority over Paul here. Why doesn’t the writer mention the Father or Jesus? Probably because the writer knew that God communicated through His Spirit.
You said:
Quote The scriptures show that not only can the Holy Spirit hear and speak but he can receive, teach, comfort, give power, Love, rebuke, restrain, be grieved, Etc, which are words that only apply to a living being! So continue to stick your head in the sand if you like! And as David has showed both you and Roo, water and blood are said to “testify”, which are words that “only apply to a living being”. The ground was said to “vomit” people up. Is the ground a person, Keith? Jesus said the rocks themselves would have “cried out”. Are rocks persons?
You said:
Quote Jesus reigns and will subdue all things to himself in his time though he has authority and power over them now. Simple really! Who does he reign over right now? Did Nebuchadnezzar reign over the Israelites before he conquered them? Is it really simple?
You said:
Quote Look around Mike because Jesus owns it all too! First, God isn't a servant of Jesus, is he? Second, Jesus “owns” exactly what his God let's him “own”. All things belong to Jehovah, including His Son. Who does Jehovah belong to?
You said:
Quote Jesus gives to the Holy Spirit who gives to us, so the Holy Spirit has authority over us! This is how your long posts always are. I spend hours answering the same question over and over just because you put it different ways. The Holy Spirit has NO AUTHORITY OF IT'S OWN! (See above)
You said:
Quote Both for they are one! When does scripture talk of the Son's will being done? How about the Holy Spirit's will? When is it done?
You said:
Quote It’s still the same thing Mike! The whole chapter is speaking of the Spirit of God, and Paul calls the Spirit Lord! You missed the point. It says the Lord is that Spirit, not that Spirit is the Lord, as you put it.
I asked: Is the Father your only God?
You said: Yep!
Let everyone praise Jah! WJ has come around to the truth!
You said:
Quote Is the Father your ONLY master and Lord? The Father is my ONLY LORD GOD. Jesus is my only Lord. Come on Keith, you're smarter than this. You offer “blessings” at the end of many of your posts. You know that ultimately ALL blessings come from God. And I could rightly say, “All blessings come from God alone.” Does that now mean that no one else can offer their blessings to another?
You said:
Quote Jesus alone sits in the Throne of God with the Father and the Holy Spirit proceeds from them! What?
Jesus is “alone”, but “with” the Father? Which throne then does Jesus grant those who overcome to sit in?You said:
Quote Answer the point? What does the Mississippi river have to do with the Greek that clearly shows “One River” and “One Throne”? Look again… Aughhhhh!!! Does the ONE Mississippi river spring only from ONE source?
You said:
Quote Diversions and a smoke screens for I have already shown you that Rev 22 with the One Throne is after the New Creation. So when then will certain ones be granted to sit on Jesus' throne? Before the new Creation? Where do we learn this?
You said:
Quote And your statement about who will give the right to sit “At Jesus right hand” is Jesus. 37They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
40but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.” (Mark 10)
Who gives the right again? Doesn't Jesus say it is NOT for him to grant? What does that mean?
You said:
Quote Now notice Mike that only Jesus is sitting in the Fathers throne, and we are sitting in Jesus throne! Thrones speak of authority Mike. Yes WJ. Therefore TWO thrones.
You said:
Quote You should view the Gospels and Jesus life here on earth in light of John 17:5 and Phil 2:6-8 Mike! You should get one of those Bibles that have Jesus' words in red ink. Then read ONLY the words written in red, and see if you find the Father/Son/Holy Spirit godhead mentioned or alluded to.
You said:
Quote Thomas realized before all that Jesus was his Lord and God, and
he was the doubter. Jesus said it was more blessed for those who have not seen him and believe! Jesus nor John rebuked him for his proposed blasphemy according to the ATs for calling Jesus his Lord and God.So you will hang your hat on ONE single scripture that appears to say something that contradicts everything else in scripture? Hmmm….
You said:
Quote And again you are denying the GSR and basic Greek grammar in relation to Titus 2:13, 14 and 2 Peter 1:1 where Paul and Peter call Jesus their God. I have already discussed Titus with you. 2 Peter says in Greek:
having obtained (by lot) faith in righteousness of the God of us and of savior jesus christIf it should be translated how you like it, it would have said “God AND Savior OF US….” But it doesn't. It says “God OF US AND of Savior Jesus Christ”
This is just one more time that the NWT does a better job than the trinitarian translations.
So, like I said: Are you going to hang your hat on only one scripture? Even in light of the fact that Jesus said, “This means EVERLASTING LIFE, them taking in knowledge of you, the ONLY true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.”
Why would Jesus say “you” if he was in fact part of the “you”. He would have said “us”.
You said:
Quote What you think doesn’t matter Mike for Jesus speaks of a singular name for the three, and the structure of the verse with the definite article unambiguously proves that Jesus makes no difference in the three sharing that one name in the divine mandate! Blah, blah, blah. You're wrong. Does it say “personal” name? The divine mandate that no one seemed to follow.
You said:
Quote No Mike there you go again trying to prove a point by using a negative. No other being was given the name “Emmanuel” meaning “God with us” by an Arch-Angel of God, were they? But you didn't answer the question – only said “there you go again, mike”. Many people had YHWH and God in their names. Why is it only when it applies to Jesus do you insist that he is the God that is in his name? So again, what if Moses' name meant “God is with us”? Would it simply mean that God is with us, or would it mean that Moses was the God who was with us?
You said:
Quote Yet you say he is “a god”, Jesus = Websters, but he is not your god Already answered 4000 different ways on 20 different threads.
You said:
Quote It’s all through the scriptures Mike, but I don’t feel like showing them to you again, but I will say this Maybe you misunderstood the question. Here, let me rephrase it for you:
When did God tells us to worship and serve Jesus as God?You said:
Quote You are calling John a liar! No. Again, let me rephrase the question.
When did Jesus claim to be equal to God?You said:
Quote In Hebrew culture it was blasphemous to call God YOUR OWN PERSONAL FATHER for they believed you were making yourself equal to God , just as a man humanly is equal to his Father! Of course I fully expect that you will just sweep this scripture under the rug like others! Yes, you and Roo always claim this. Show me the url address show I can research it, please. You know though, that if flies in the face of the Jews telling Jesus that God is the only father they have, thus making themselves equal to God by claiming He is their only Father.
You said:
Quote There you go again, making the word of God of none effect. For God can only approach us first and he cannot come to us in “All of his Glory” or we would die. So God has to take on different forms Like maybe an Angel or a man or Jesus! So now Jesus is a “form” of God, like an angel? Not God Himself like you say? If he is God, then he is God in any form WJ. So if Jesus is God, then God Himself approached us in all His Glory. Your reasoning is flawed.
You said:
Quote Do you see it Mike? Jesus only can claim if you know me you know God and if you see me you have seen God! So the Holy Spirit cannot claim that – only Jesus?
You said:
Quote Jesus is God in the flesh, he came from heaven as the Word that was with God and was God by emptying himself of his Divine prerogatives as God Un-scriptural poppycock.
You said:
Quote Now what did I say that is not scriptural? Jesus as the Mediator is “One” with the one he mediates for. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, “BUT GOD IS ONE. Gal 3:20
This scripture says a Mediator is not a Mediator of Just one party; however he says “God is One”. In other words the Mediator and God are “One”!
No, Keith. A mediator cannot mediate between one party. A mediator is someone who mediates BETWEEN two parties, and therefore CANNOT be one of the two parties.
peace and love,
mikeHi WJ,
That was the very last time I tackle one of you “million word marches”.
When the posts are so long, to much gets overlooked. I just can't do it anymore, sorry.
You don't have to respond at all, but if you do, please pick one point. I'm happy to discuss anything and everything with you, but not all at once.
I will not respond to a huge post again. I will pick one point and respond. So if you write a huge post, it will be mostly ignored by me. I don't say that your thoughts aren't important, just that I don't have the strength to answer every thought you have in one post.
I have saved one of the questions from the bottom of your last post to try and start a point by point discussion. I will answer it shortly.
I do enjoy discussing scripture with you – just not all of them at once.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2010,05:32) Mike, Lol i willl
sorry it was like 3am!
Tonight ill repost it correctly
Hi Dennison,Cool!
Please just pick a point or two. I'm getting worn out from the long posts. I know I do it too. Get started and can't stop. But they are so draining and time consuming.Maybe Nick started out that way and that's why he now answers short and sometimes even to the point.
peace and love brother,
mikeQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2010,06:17) Hi MB,
Those sons of God rejoiced when the foundations of earth were laid.[Jb 38]
Some too left their appointed abode and married women[gen6]
Hi Nick,Good points. I get it. It only came up because Roo thinks that since it doesn't actually say “angels are sons of God”, it means they are not. He hasn't said much since Dennison's explanation though, so maybe he's figured it out.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 30 2010,06:42) You still have not answered these questions… Where is an example in scripture where any servant of YHWH or Jesus ever called any other their God other than YHWH and Jesus?
Hi WJ,I don't know of any….BUT
We do know that John tried to worship an angel. Not once, but even a second time after just being told not to. That didn't mean the angel was God.
Like I told Paul, I simply don't have a good answer for that one scripture. But I'm not going to go against the face of all other scriptures because of one. I imagine that Thomas was in such complete awe at the time. Just like John in Rev. But why he was not told “worship God” like John was, I don't know.
peace and love,
mike
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