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JA said:
Quote Can you show me where one is condemned for blaspheming against Jesus – Not saying you are wrong or 'ought – just wanna understand what you on abart? JA,
Blasphemy against the Son may be forgiven. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit may not be forgiven. If the Son was not God, then how can He be blasphemed? If the Holy Spirit is not God, then why is blasphemy against Him unforgiveable?
JA:
Quote New Name same person, KJ,
Yes! Just wanted a change that's all.Jack
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 21 2010,03:16) Hi Maze and welcome! Quote (Mayz @ May 20 2010,02:45) So if you believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are working together in perfect harmony to accomplish the goal of saving humanity, then you believe in the trinity.
Exactly!WJ
I concur. Yet Nick says that the Trinity cannot save WJ.Jack
KJ: Old Wine in New Skin…
I think you are straining at a gnat over this one…
I ask again: Where does Scripture say that Jesus is blasphemed – I am JUST ASKIN for the Scripture verse – not arguing…
Quote (JustAskin @ May 21 2010,03:49) KJ: Old Wine in New Skin… I think you are straining at a gnat over this one…
I ask again: Where does Scripture say that Jesus is blasphemed – I am JUST ASKIN for the Scripture verse – not arguing…
Your original question was this:
Quote Can you show me where one is condemned for blaspheming against Jesus – My reply was this:
Quote Blasphemy against the Son may be forgiven.
In other words, there is no such thing as condemnation for blasphemy against the Son. God forgives it?2=2=4 JA!
Then you revised your question:
Quote Where does Scripture say that Jesus is blasphemed
This is a totally different question. Jesus was blasphemed when the Jews said He had an unclean spirit (Mark 3:28-30). Matthew's account says that both the Son and the Holy Spirit were blasphemed on that occasion.Mark's account:28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Matthew's account: 31 “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
When they said that Jesus had an unclean spirit they were blaspheming both the Son and the Spirit. That part of their blasphemy which was against the Son was forgiven them. So there is no condemnation for blaspheming the Son. But that part which was against the Holy Spirit was not forgiveable and therefore they were condemned forever.
So you ain't “JustAskin.” You're doing the Mexican hat dance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mru5qKHEss
Now answer my question: How can persons who are not God be blasphemed?
Jack
KJ,
This is getting pointless for no reason…
Youa re arguing against yourself. I thought you were saying … so I asked – politely – even reemphasised – JUST ASKIN… where did you see me arguing… and you don't need to 'blue in' you question – I use the term blaspheming only to mean “Speaking against one who utters Spiritual truth” – so, if that is not the meaning of Blaspheming then I apologise.
JustAskin said:
Quote I use the term blaspheming only to mean “Speaking against one who utters Spiritual truth”
We're not interested in how you use the term “blasphemy”. We are interested only in the biblical use of the term. Only God can be blasphemed. Jesus and the Holy Spirit were blasphemed. Therefore, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are God.Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable. How can unforgiveable blasphemy be committed against a person who is not God?
Jack
Oh, I see… You were putting a Trini bend on it.
I thought for a moment you were actually going to have a meaningful discussion.
New wine in new skin, like!
But it turns out that it's just another shaggy dog argument. Well, it's pie in the sky, to me, water off a ducks back to you. I tried to help you when I first started in this forum but you looked a gift horse in the mouth and even as I saw your talent for holding a straight line, even if it is the wrong line, and tried to bring your lamp from under the bushell, like Jesus turned Saul into Paul, you buried your head in the sand and yiu been eating dirt ever since.
Perhaps you need to turn the jack horner and learn to climb the apples and pairs that lead to truth and righteousness.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 21 2010,06:45) Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable. How can unforgiveable blasphemy be committed against a person who is not God?
Hi JA and KJ,The word blasphemy is never used about Jesus. It is termed, “anyone who speaks a word against me” when related to Jesus. It is termed “blasphemy” in regards to the Holy Spirit of God, because blaspheming against God's Spirit is the exact same as blaspheming against God.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Mayz @ May 20 2010,19:31) Jesus was in the beginning, because “The beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)”
As to who he is, I don't know as mentioned earlier, No one knows who the son is.
Hi Mayz and welcome,A lot of people get hung up on John 1:1. But you should know that the capital letters in “God” were added by translators. The Greek actually says,
in beginning the word was with the god and god was the word
Do you see that the god that the word was with is preceded by the word “the”? The other god is not. It is clear to me that the word who was god is not the same as THE god he was with. How can one being be WITH a different being while being the same exact being?
Thoughts to ponder.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 20 2010,19:16) You're just a trouble maker Mike. If you had a full and meaningful life you would not be here so much stirring up trouble. You tipped me off to this by your reply to me after I asked you if you ever take a break. You said that this board replaces TV. This means you have nothing to do Mike. So you come here to stir up trouble. Unlike you WJ and I have lives outside this board. I am not sure I want to waste my time with an obnoxious person such as you.
thinker
Hi KJ,Why is it so important to you how I spend my time? Does it bother you that I like to spend my free time on HN? Why? My life is not hectic because that's the way I choose my life to be. I'm happy and content with my life. It's very simple, and I thank God each day and night for providing me with everything I need to be happy.
I spend every weekend with my 9 year old boy, and we do something with my parents almost every weekend. We have family get togethers every couple of months, and I enjoy catching up with everyone.
What is it you think I should be doing? Am I not living my life to the fullest by your standards? Well, sorry for you – I'm very satisfied with my life.
Considering I spent 10 of the last 12 years in a drug induced frenzy hanging out with a lot of other people who didn't know God, sometimes living on the streets, I truly know from where and how far God has taken me.
I'm happy now, can't you let me be?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ May 21 2010,12:30) Oh, I see… You were putting a Trini bend on it. I thought for a moment you were actually going to have a meaningful discussion.
New wine in new skin, like!
But it turns out that it's just another shaggy dog argument. Well, it's pie in the sky, to me, water off a ducks back to you. I tried to help you when I first started in this forum but you looked a gift horse in the mouth and even as I saw your talent for holding a straight line, even if it is the wrong line, and tried to bring your lamp from under the bushell, like Jesus turned Saul into Paul, you buried your head in the sand and yiu been eating dirt ever since.
Perhaps you need to turn the jack horner and learn to climb the apples and pairs that lead to truth and righteousness.
Im sorry This qoute made me laugh so much!The humor behind it was excellent!
even though i disagree! it was good.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ May 20 2010,19:16) Mike,
Anathema! Jesus is not a god in the “same sense” that Jesus is a god. Satan is a usurper. Jesus was the Eternal Word at God's side. Even if Jesus was a lesser “god” He is YOUR “god” Mike. Satan is not your god.You are a heretic Mike. Since I have been here no anti-trinitarian here has said that Jesus is a god in the “same sense” as satan. Thrice anathema!
I won't be replying to you that much. Your blasphemy is too much for me to bear.
Even Is. 1:18 (Paul) PMed me twice and asked me why I continue to debate with you. It was after his PM's that I started to hesitate. Who wants to spend so much time debating an obnoxious person who is so unteachable that he has to day that Jesus is a god in the “same sense” as satan. You say this because you must and not because you really believe it. Only an obnoxious and unreasonable person would say that Jesus is a god in the “same sense” that satan is a god.
The Father said that all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father. This means that you are in deep doo doo with the Father for comparing His Son to satan. DEEEEEP doo doo Mike!
Hi KJ,Again, Websters defines “god” as:
“any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature”.
We know from Paul that “for us there is only one God”, and He is “the Father”.
Does the Websters definition fit Satan? Yes. Is Satan God the Father? No.
Does the Websters definition fit Jesus? Yes. Is Jesus God the Father? No.
Jesus is a god in the same sense and definition that Satan is. Jesus is my Lord, my King and my Savior. He is my benefactor who can righty be considered and called a mighty god, but he is not my God. Only Jehovah is my God. Just like the Scriptures and Jesus taught.
You suit yourself in regards to replying to me. If you don't want to discuss Scripture with me, that's okay. But if you do, you and Paul and WJ should know by now that I promote exactly what the Scriptures teach. And God is helping me understand them better and better each day.
You call me obnoxious. YOU call ME that?
The one who is more interested in insults and degrading little graphics than answering Scripture with Scripture?And why should I care what Paul thinks? The only thing I know about him is that he likes to insult people and bail out when finding himself in a corner just like you.
You also called me “unteachable” and “unreasonable”. Teach by Scripture, not conjecture, and I will believe. Show me where Jesus is “the only true God” that he himself spoke of and the “one God, the Father” that Paul spoke of, and I will change how I believe. Until then, Jesus is A god who is NOT God the Father, and therefore a god in the same sense that Satan is a god.
Do you think I don't know the role that Jesus has had on all of our lives? Do you think I don't know the role that the Devil has played? Do you think I honor them both? You can hate Satan all you want, but does it change the fact that he is “the god of this system of things”? Does it change the fact that he is one of “any of various beings conceived of as supernatural, immortal, and having special powers over the lives and affairs of people and the course of nature”. ?
You said:
Quote The Father said that all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father. I do. And when you show me the Scripture that says to worship the Son as God Almighty even as you worship the Father as God Almighty, I will do that also. Is there a Scripture that tells us to do that, Jack?
You said:
Quote This means that you are in deep doo doo with the Father for comparing His Son to satan. DEEEEEP doo doo Mike! So is it wrong for me to say that Salmon Rushdie has a following of believers in the same sense that the Pope has a following of believers? If so, how?
I pray for you to have peace, love and understanding,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ May 20 2010,16:35) Mike Where is the proof that this definition applied to Biblical Times? Did Jesus and the Apostles have a Websters dictionary? Proof Mike and not wishful assumptions!
Hi WJ,Remember your 50+ scholars that wrote the CEV? Their footnote at Judges 13:22, where they put the word “angel”, says,
angel:The Hebrew text has “god”, which can be used of God or of other supernatural beings.
Sound similar? In fact, even some humans were referred to as “gods”. Were they God Almighty? Why Why Why do you understand when someone other than Jehovah is referred to as “god” that it doesn't mean they are God Almighty, but you can't seem to grasp that same truth when Jesus is referred to as “god”?
I won't be answering your long post again. If you feel there are important points that I missed, post them one or two at a time, and I'll answer them. In the mean time, the post I did on Word surely answered some of them. Please respond when you get the time. I'm especially curious to see what you and Jack thought of the Eusebius part. Trinitarian, or not? Begotten, or not?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ May 21 2010,15:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 20 2010,16:35) Mike Where is the proof that this definition applied to Biblical Times? Did Jesus and the Apostles have a Websters dictionary? Proof Mike and not wishful assumptions!
Hi WJ,Remember your 50+ scholars that wrote the CEV? Their footnote at Judges 13:22, where they put the word “angel”, says,
angel:The Hebrew text has “god”, which can be used of God or of other supernatural beings.
Sound similar? In fact, even some humans were referred to as “gods”. Were they God Almighty? Why Why Why do you understand when someone other than Jehovah is referred to as “god” that it doesn't mean they are God Almighty, but you can't seem to grasp that same truth when Jesus is referred to as “god”?
I won't be answering your long post again. If you feel there are important points that I missed, post them one or two at a time, and I'll answer them. In the mean time, the post I did on Word surely answered some of them. Please respond when you get the time. I'm especially curious to see what you and Jack thought of the Eusebius part. Trinitarian, or not? Begotten, or not?
peace and love,
mike
Actually Mike i debated that same point in other threads lol.
the one abuot john 10:and somone mentioned the every same thing than i mentoined psalms 82!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! woot woot!!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psalms 82!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!lol even though i get you!, i didnt read the whole thread so i have no idea what your referring to lol.
im just ease dropping…
bad Dennison , BAD!!!
SIT! GOOD BOY!Quote (JustAskin @ May 21 2010,20:20) Hi SF, Thanks. I like to humour KJ, aka, TT that was but is not but yet still is.
I really like to LIGHTEN UP, at times. and I love to be THE THINKER at others times.
but IM JUST ASKIN why do ya tickle my funny bone?I think KJ fits him better! lol, his debate with mike was funny. and his last comment just left me laughing to much.
SF,
Seems like your measured my coat and it fits you too.
I like your style. I haven't read your post before but I will from now on.
Psalm 82… Thanks, I was searching for something and found it in there: verse 7:
Who might the 'Prince' who has fallen be?
How is He a Prince, Prince to which King?
The verse say,'fallen like one of the Princes' (plural). Who are the other Princes?In Deuteronomy, God calls [Jesus to be named] 'My Angel', 'My Angel will go before you. Do not provoke him for my name[power and authority] is in him'
Was 'Jesus'… then, also, 'One of the Princes', one of the Chief Princes, like Michael, who all stand in the midst and all around Gods throne?Speculative, eh?
Remember your 50+ scholars that wrote the CEV? Their footnote at Judges 13:22, where they put the word “angel”, says,
angel:The Hebrew text has “god”, which can be used of God or of other supernatural beings.
–Mike.WJ, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST.
(Reverse psychology.)
Quote (david @ May 22 2010,13:11) Remember your 50+ scholars that wrote the CEV? Their footnote at Judges 13:22, where they put the word “angel”, says, angel:The Hebrew text has “god”, which can be used of God or of other supernatural beings.
–Mike.WJ, DO NOT RESPOND TO THIS POST.
(Reverse psychology.)
Quote (JustAskin @ May 21 2010,21:52) SF, Seems like your measured my coat and it fits you too.
I like your style. I haven't read your post before but I will from now on.
Psalm 82… Thanks, I was searching for something and found it in there: verse 7:
Who might the 'Prince' who has fallen be?
How is He a Prince, Prince to which King?
The verse say,'fallen like one of the Princes' (plural). Who are the other Princes?In Deuteronomy, God calls [Jesus to be named] 'My Angel', 'My Angel will go before you. Do not provoke him for my name[power and authority] is in him'
Was 'Jesus'… then, also, 'One of the Princes', one of the Chief Princes, like Michael, who all stand in the midst and all around Gods throne?Speculative, eh?
JAyou say;Psalm 82… Thanks, I was searching for something and found it in there: verse 7:
Who might the 'Prince' who has fallen be?
How is He a Prince, Prince to which King?
The verse say,'fallen like one of the Princes' (plural). Who are the other Princes?my version;;Ps 82:4 Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.Ps 82:5 “They know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.Ps 82:6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
Ps 82:7 But you will die like mere men;
you will fall like every other ruler.”Ps 82:8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.i can not understand you.
you say;;;
In Deuteronomy, God calls [Jesus to be named] 'My Angel', 'My Angel will go before you. Do not provoke him for my name[power and authority] is in him'
Was 'Jesus'… then, also, 'One of the Princes', one of the Chief Princes, like Michael, who all stand in the midst and all around Gods throne?what verse in Deut?
??Pierre
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