Man, all mortal or just his body?

[Jodi Lee]

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” 16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

Galatians 3:4 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Ro 9:8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.
There were indeed human Sons of God before the flood and then also after.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony. 3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible. 4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks. 5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. 7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith. 8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 By faith Sarah herself also received strength to conceive seed, and she bore a child  when she was past the age, because she judged Him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore from one man, and him as good as dead, were born as many as the stars of the sky in multitude–innumerable as the sand which is by the seashore. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For those who say such things declare plainly that they seek a homeland. 15 And truly if they had called to mind that country from which they had come out, they would have had opportunity to return. 16 But now they desire a better, that is, a heavenly country. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” 19 concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Joseph, and worshiped, leaning on the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he was dying, made mention of the departure of the children of Israel, and gave instructions concerning his bones. 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a beautiful child; and they were not afraid of the king's command. 24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, 26 esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king; for he endured as seeing Him who is invisible. 28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29 By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they were encircled for seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab did not perish with those who did not believe, when she had received the spies with peace. 32 And what more shall I say? For the time would fail me to tell of Gideon and Barak and Samson and Jephthah, also of David and Samuel and the prophets: 33 who through faith subdued kingdoms, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became valiant in battle, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again. And others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. 36 Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. 37 They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented– 38 of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, 40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.

All these before and after the flood and before the time of Christ, died with Faith in God and with a promise of eternal life, and thus were Sons of God, as those in Faith today are also called Sons of God.

The Sons of God in Genesis 6 were indeed human Son's of God.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God  in heaven.  31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching

Angels do not marry! God is NOT the God of the dead, why is that Paladin?

Mark 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.  

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Paladin are we to believe that once we become like the angels upon our resurrection, no longer able to die anymore, that we still can SIN? Angels do not choose to marry and breed with human beings and then become mortals, they were given eternal life, and that means that they are NO longer ABLE to die. God promises in the resurrection under the new heaven and earth there will be NO more sin, sin will not be possible. This is
because when we are given eternal life as the angels were given it, it creates a work of perfection of which makes it impossible to sin.

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Paladin @ July 18 2009,02:52)

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 17 2009,13:26) Quote (Paladin @ July 17 2009,10:38) Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 17 2009,05:08) Jude 1:6  messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, KJV says “angels” not “messengers.” Gen 6 says sons of Elohiym. Job says sons of Elohiym. Psalm says “what is man that thou art mindful of him, or the son of man that thou visitest him, thou has made him a little lower than Elohiym” My question for you though is if these are sons of God because they are obedient believers, why are they victims to their lusts? Doesn't sound like obedient sons of God to me. Also, how did these “wicked men who were sons of God” put off or abandon their oikeeteerion?  MAN does not even HAVE oikeeteerion until he puts OF immortality and puts on oikeeteerion. And it is the same thing that the angels referenced by Jude, abandoned. Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. In the phrase “Left their own habitation” – “left” is from the Greek word “apoleipw” which means to leave, to leave behind, to desert or forsake; and “habitation” is from the Greek word “oikeeteerion” Meaning: a dwelling place, habitation of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit. When angels put off their oikeerteerion, they took on humanity, mortality, begat a race of giants among men. When men put off this mortality, they PUT ON oikeeteerion, and live forever. I could make the same argument, you think sinning angels are going to be referred to as Sons of God? Were the angels righteous before they decided to lust after the woman? These were righteous men who became sinful through lusting after the beautiful daughters. The prophets forsook the house of God when they prophesied lies in His name in His house. The giants were said to exist BEFORE and AFTER the procreation. Anyway the giants are still referred to as men not halfbreeds. Angels, with immortality, sinning and becoming mortals? I have a major problem with the idea of that. I believe that God holds the same standards for all His created creatures. We know that sin equals death and immortality is a reward of faith and upon that faith and receiving of immortality perfection is created. If Angels have immortality then they must have obtained perfection sometime in past history before our creation was made. Once you're perfected by God in God, there's no going back, Thank goodness! That's my understanding anyway. When the last enemy is destroyed and Jesus hands over the rulership to his Father, and He dwells with us in our presence in a new heaven and new earth, the angels will be there with us too. I believe that God must have perfected them before our Creation, who knows maybe He did so on earth when the dinosaurs roamed, but now their job has been to aid God in bringing forth His will and plan on earth. I just can't possibly imagine someone throwing immortality away when they've already lived in it. We wait in hope and great expectation for that glory, it's rather just a slap in the face to God to say that others had it but it wasn't good enough for them, they'd rather have sex with humans. I do not care what you cannot imagine. Scripture plainly tells you that angels abandoned oikeeteerion, which is the same thing resurrected saints PUT ON. It really has nothing to do with what you can imagine. It has to do with what God reveals. Why would God reaveal it if it is not true? And how else do you explain what scripture says about it? It is speaking of angels abandoning oikeeteerion. This CANNOT be sinning lustful men, because men do not have it to begin with. Angels DO.

oijkhthvrionfrom a presumed derivative of (3611) (equivalent to (3612))

Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

Oiketerion5:155,674
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
oy-kay-tay'-ree-on    
Noun Neuter
Definition
1.a dwelling place, habitation
a.of the body as a dwelling place for the spirit
  King James Word Usage – Total: 2 house 1, habitation 1
Home > Lexicons > Greek > oiketerion > KJV Verse Count

2Co 5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

Jude 1:6  And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

YLT Jude 1 1:6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept,

Oiketerion means dwelling place or habitation. You are FORCING it to mean that it solely represents the dwelling place of eternal life. In 2 Corinthians 5 this particular dwelling place is shown to be the dwelling place of God upon the resurrection that we hope for. It is the dwelling place of righteousness where sin has been put to death and can NO LONGER OCCUR, it is a dwelling place you NEVER LEAVE, because in it you've reached perfection.  It cannot mean the exact same thing in Jude, the word recall means dwelling place or habitation, you must define that habitation according to the context and not assume that it would mean the exact same habitation given in another verse. The messengers that left their habitation, were the prophets who lived in the house of God to prophesy for Him unto the children of Israel, when they prophesied lies out of their own hearts in God's name, they left God's habitation, they were no longer seen by God as dwelling in Him, they had forsaken Him.

If the habitations spoken of in those two scriptures are exactly the same, then God is a liar, because He tells us that in His eternal habitation you can no longer die and you will no longer sin. However you Paladin tell us otherwise, Paladin your doctrine is futile!

The habitation in 2 Corinthians 5 is the one of which we dwell in perfection with eternal life, where sin and death no longer exist.

The habitation in Jude 6, was the temple of God on earth, where God gave men prophesies, the day these men created their own prophesies was the day they left God's temple.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi.
The house from heaven is like the tent Paul wishes to shed.
It is the new imperishable body like to that of the returning Jesus.[1Cor15]

[Paladin]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 18 2009,03:22)

Quote Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God  in heaven.  31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching Angels do not marry! God is NOT the God of the dead, why is that Paladin? Mark 12:25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.   Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Paladin are we to believe that once we become like the angels upon our resurrection, no longer able to die anymore, that we still can SIN? Angels do not choose to marry and breed with human beings and then become mortals, they were given eternal life, and that means that they are NO longer ABLE to die. God promises in the resurrection under the new heaven and earth there will be NO more sin, sin will not be possible. This is because when we are given eternal life as the angels were given it, it creates a work of perfection of which makes it impossible to sin.

All you have shown is that angels in heaven do not marry. But sons of God and daughters of men were NOT in heaven in Gen 6, so “in heaven” is not even a consideration.

All you have done is verify what I said, there were no female angels. THAT is why angels do not marry in heaven.

But the angels of Gen 6 were not in heavern, were they? They were the same place the eradicating flood was, i.e., on earth.

All you are doing is proving my point, yet without faith to believe it.

You still do not deal with Peter's and Jude's statements about angels who abandoned oikeeteerion, which is the same thing resurrected saints put on.

You deny it, but it is still there in scripture.

You “can't believe it” but it is still there in scripture.

I will not strain your faith with any more attempt to convince you of what you ignore in the scriptures.

[Jodi Lee]

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

To attain eternal life you are first counted WORTHY, and in that eternal life we are shown from scripture that sin does not exist, it has been removed for good.

When we receive that immortality we will be equal with the angels, no longer able to die ANYMORE. However you tell us that the angels can indeed sin in their eternal life, and that they can die.

Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Christ dies no more, he has been made like the angels with eternal life. Eternal life is the freedom from sin, for the life that you lead in eternal life is a life lived to God.  

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life

The habitation that we are clothed with, that the scripture speaks of, is eternal life. The place that we will be, is in eternal life. This is not a temporary dwelling of which one can choose to leave, that is an insult to God, it is a place of righteous perfection.

You say however Paladin that in Jude the habitation means the exact same as in 2 Corinthians, eternal life, and thus you make eternal life out to be NOTHING. You make the glory of God and His gift of eternal life worthless, and untrue.

Jude 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering.

Your belief in no way fits with what we are told from scripture. The messengers in Jude did not leave the habitation from 2 Corinthians 2, because you don’t leave eternal life.

Luke 20 does not tell us that angels in heaven do not marry, however if they leave heaven they can.  How did you develop that reasoning from the scriptures? The scripture is specifically telling us that it is when you have eternal life you do not marry. It’s not about where you’re presence is physically in your eternal life that dictates if you can marry or not.

Ro 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

The Spirit gives eternal life because in that life exists an eternal continuation of righteousness. They go hand in hand. The reason why you have eternal life is because the Spirit working in you is a work of eternal righteousness!

1Jo 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Ro 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 5:9  (for the fruit of the Spirit* is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth),

Where does it say in scripture there are no female angels? Where does it say in scripture that angels don’t marry because there are no females?

Paladin you have failed to prove that the two habitations in 2 Corinthians 5 and Jude 1 are speaking of the exact same habitation.  Even worse is that your choice to believe they do is futile to man’s entire hope of living one day without sin in eternal life.

As well I have shown through scripture how the definition of Sons of God for human beings fits perfectly with certain men who lived before the flood. You have failed to properly dispute that the Sons of God could not be humans.

You DENY the scripture that says the giants existed BEFORE and after the Sons of God had children with the daughters of men.

You deny the scriptures that tell us it was not angels and their halfbreed children, but men (adam) that were wicked on earth before the flood.  

You deny the scripture that tells us that there is no work or knowledge or wisdom in the grave.

You deny the scripture that tells us that the dead cannot praise God and that they cannot hope for God’s truth. You deny the scripture that tells us that God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

If I deny anything it is your misinterpretation of scripture that I believe completely dishonors God and the Work of His Spirit.

————————————————
~dafrom (0119)

Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

'adamTWOT – 25a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
aw-dawm'    
Noun Masculine
Definition
1.man, mankind
a.man, human being
b.man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)
c.Adam, first man
d.city in Jordan valley
 King James Word Usage – Total: 552 man 408, men 121, Adam 13, person(s) 8, common sort + (07230) 1, hypocrite 1

Ge 1:27   So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Ge 6:3  And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Ge 6:4   There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Ge 6:5  And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Ge 6:6   And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Ge 8:21  And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.
————————————–

rwbbgintensive from (01396)

Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

GibbowrTWOT – 310b
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
ghib-bore'    

Definition adj
1.strong, mighty n m
2.strong man, brave man, mighty man
King James Word Usage – Total: 158 mighty 63, mighty man 68, strong 4, valiant 3, …. ones 4, mighties 2, man 2, valiant men 2, strong man 1, upright man 1, champion 1, chief 1, excel 1, giant 1, men's 1, mightiest 1, strongest 1

Ge 6:4   There were
giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Ge 10:8   And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

Ge 10:9   He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
——————————————-

Xyacontracted for (0582) [or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant]
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry

'iyshTWOT – 83a
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
eesh    
Noun Masculine
Definition
1.man
a.man, male (in contrast to woman, female)
b.husband
c.human being, person (in contrast to God)
d.servant
e.mankind
f.champion
g.great man
2.whosoever
3.each (adjective)

King James Word Usage – Total: 1639 man 1002, men 210, one 188, husband 69, any 27, miscellaneous 143

—————————————————-

Paladin you said, ” ANGELS ARE EESH
Judges 13:6 Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man (Eesh) [376] of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel (Mal-awk) [4397] of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name:

There are no female angels. When God created Adam and placed him in the garden, the created angels looked on, not knowing what was to be developed.

When God took from Adam, a rib, and formed woman, angels also looked on and pondered.

When man first interacted with woman, angels began to wonder. By the sixth chapter of the book of Genesis, they were ready to give up their immortality to enjoy what they saw among fleshly man. They did so, and were destroyed for leaving their proper niche in God's creaton.

AND, they counterfeited God's plan for saving mankind. He planned on begetting a manchild to be raised among men, to serve as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of mankind.

Angels who cohabited with women so nearly matched God's own plan, he could not allow it to continue, for if he did, men today would not know if Jesus was relaly God's son among men, or if it is simply more angelic interference in man's doings. ”

Huh?

This is ALL proof that you do not let scripture dictate your understanding, on the contrary you twist scripture to fit your own made up ideas, all the while ignoring other clear scriptures of which prove your doctrine not only to be in error but a disgrace to God and the glorious work of His Spirit.  

You give ONE scripture that says ONE angel was male, and thus that is your proof that ALL angels are male? Then you find it ok to take that assumption and create additions to Genesis in relation to how angels felt about female humans?   Then you find it perfectly ok to take the glory of eternal life and say that it does not in fact work eternal righteousness, it is weak like mortal flesh and can falter for sexual desire? Wow!

Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.” 55 “O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

The messengers in Jude and Peter could not possibly be referring to angels, and as well the Sons of God in Genesis could not possibly be referring to angels either.  

Yes Paladin you have your understanding and I have mine. Thanks for debating, it is good for others to see different views of scripture.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
Where did you gain the thought that angels have eternal life?
The fire of mt 25 is prepared for the devil and his angels.

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“To attain eternal life you are first counted WORTHY, and in that eternal life we are shown from scripture that sin does not exist, it has been removed for good.

When we receive that immortality we will be equal with the angels, no longer able to die ANYMORE. However you tell us that the angels can indeed sin in their eternal life, and that they can die. “

Becoming WORTHY by our efforts?

Worthiness is in the eyes of God and according to fruit of His given Spirit.[mt25]
Even Jesus would not allow himself to be considered good so what of other natural sinner men?

When was sin removed?

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say this
“If I deny anything it is your misinterpretation of scripture that I believe completely dishonors God and the Work of His Spirit. “

But you deny so many of the teachings of the Spirit through Jesus about the devil?

[NickHassan]

Hi Jodi,
You say
“Christ dies no more, he has been made like the angels with eternal life.”
WHERE WERE ANGELS PROMISED ETERNAL LIFE?

” Eternal life is the freedom from sin, for the life that you lead in eternal life is a life lived to God.”
WHERE DOES IT SAY ETERNAL LIFE IS SINLESSNESS?

[Paladin]

Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 20 2009,05:31)

Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

To attain eternal life you are first counted WORTHY, and in that eternal life we are shown from scripture that sin does not exist, it has been removed for good. [/quote]

Reference?

Quote

When we receive that immortality we will be equal with the angels, no longer able to die ANYMORE. However you tell us that the angels can indeed sin in their eternal life, and that they can die.

I really don't remember referencing “Paladin 3:16” anywhere. All of my references were from the hebrew/Chaldee/Greek scriptures. In other words. I DIDN'T WRITE THE BOOK.

Quote

Romans 6:8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

Your understanding means Christ died for every sinner EXCEPT
those men who have been raised from the dead by all the prophets who ever raised the dead, which means Elijah, Elisha, and at least thirteen apostles.

So Christ did not die for the sins of those who died and were raised, because they were already sinless?

[/quote] Christ dies no more, he has been made like the angels with eternal life. Eternal life is the freedom from sin, for the life that you lead in eternal life is a life lived to God.
[/quote]

So by your understanding angels never fell. Satan never rebelled, and God told us fables to beat us into submission through soul-terrifying fear? Nah!

Quote

2 Corinthians 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life The habitation that we are clothed with, that the scripture speaks of, is eternal life. The place that we will be, is in eternal life. This is not a temporary dwelling of which one can choose to leave, that is an insult to God, it is a place of righteous perfection.

Right! And so God insults God by writing such stuff. God insulted God when he wrote that tha angels fell; when he wrote about Satan; when he tells us of demons and devils, and evil spirits. Just God insulting God, right?

[uote] You say however Paladin that in Jude the habitation means the exact same as in 2 Corinthians, eternal life, and thus you make eternal life out to be NOTHING. You make the glory of God and His gift of eternal life worthless, and untrue.
[/quote]

Why do you try to make Paul's writings, and Peter's writings and Jude's writings sound like thay are “Paladin 3:16-20?”

GOD WROTE THE BIBLE THROUGH HUMAN HANDS, HANDS OF CLAY.

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Jude 1:4 for there did come in unobserved certain men, long ago having been written beforehand to this judgment, impious, the grace of our God perverting to lasciviousness, and our only Master, God, and Lord — Jesus Christ — denying, 5 and to remind you I intend, you knowing once this, that the Lord, a people out of the land of Egypt having saved, again those who did not believe did destroy; 6 messengers also, those who did not keep their own principality, but did leave their proper dwelling, to a judgment of a great day, in bonds everlasting, under darkness He hath kept, 7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them, in like manner to these, having given themselves to whoredom, and gone after other flesh, have been set before — an example, of fire age-during, justice suffering. Your belief in no way fits with what we are told from scripture. The messengers in Jude did not leave the habitation from 2 Corinthians 2, because you don’t leave eternal life.

Then all those “spirits” in Tartaroo [II Pet 2:4] have nothing to fear do they? They have all suddenly become Christian Scientists who believe everything is suggestion, a figment of imagination, not real.

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Luke 20 does not tell us that angels in heaven do not marry, however if they leave heaven they can.

Right! And Luke 20 does not tell us “In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth” either, does it? AND I did not say Luke 20 tells us that, DID I?

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How did you develop that reasoning from the scriptures?

I do not detect sincerity in that question, so I will spare you further trauma by not responding.

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The scripture is specifically telling us that it is when you have eternal life you do not marry. It’s not about where you’re presence is physically in your eternal life that dictates if you can marry or not.

Where does scripture “specifically tell us” that batchelors have eternal life? Eternal life has nothing to do with marrying and not marrying. It has to do with “eeshee” being applicable ONLY to live flesh.

I Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is ONE KIND OF FLESH OF MEN, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of
the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

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Where does it say in scripture there are no female angels?

Right next to that verse that says “God is not a spider.”

Scripture is not baseed on what is NOT said,
but on what IS WRITTEN.”

Scripture tells us angels are “eesh.” If you think angels are eeshee, show us the verse.

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Where does it say in scripture that angels don’t marry because there are no females?

By taking the verse thas says “angels are eesh” and putting it with the verse that says “in the resurrection men neither mary nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels in heaven, neither marrying nor giving in marriage.” (or something like that; I don't know if I'm paraphrasing or speaking from memory)

Paladin you have failed to prove that the two habitations in 2 Corinthians 5 and Jude 1 are speaking of the exact same habitation. Even worse is that your choice to believe they do is futile to man’s entire hope of living one day without sin in eternal life.[/quote]

All that means is when you see “oikeeteerion” in only two verses in scripture, you ask, “which oikeeteerion are you talking about Lord, I Corinthians, or Jude?”

When one verse tells us we wait to be clothed upon with oikeeteerion so as to claim a share in eternal life, and another verse tells us angels who share in eternal life abandoned their oikeeteerion only to be killed in a flood, you don't see a connection? THAT certainly explains a lot. Oh, wait a minute, you think the translators really have it right? They were talking about a “habitation?”

Why do you suppose the Catholic nuns wear a “habit” in their daily walk? THAT is what they are “clothed upon” with in daily living. They understand the use of “habitation” in scripture to mean “that with which we are clothed upon;” i.e., flesh or spirit or oikeeteerion.

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As well I have shown through scripture how the definition of Sons of God for human beings fits perfectly with certain men who lived before the flood. You have failed to properly dispute that the Sons of God could not be humans.

No I haven't! You have taken new testament passages which were applied to sons of God IN CHRIST JESUS and tried to apply the terminology to old testament men TO WHOM THE TERM DOES NOT APPLY.

I told you in the OP that the term “sons of God” is used only five times in the Old Testament, twice in Genesis 6 and three times in Job. And is is shown from those references that the term applies to angels, not men.

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You DENY the scripture that says the giants existed BEFORE and after the Sons of God had children with the daughters of men.

I really shouldn't be the one to tell you this, so if you will go get your husband to explain to you about gestation and time, perhaps you will understand there is a time between marriage and birth of begotten children, assuming certain proprieies are followed, and protocols carried out.

What the scripture actually SAYS:

Genesis 6:1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them, 2 That the SONS OF GOD saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they TOOK THEM WIVES of all which they chose. 3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. 4 THERE WERE GIANTS IN THE EARTH in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. 7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

I fail to see any mention or reference to

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the scripture that says the giants existed BEFORE and after the Sons of God had children with the daughters of men.

“Giants” [VERSE 4] appears in the reference material ONLY after the angels began to marry [VERSE 2] the daughters of men.

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You deny the scriptures that tell us it was not angels and their halfbreed children, but men (adam) that were wicked on earth before the flood. Where are these scriptures that tell us it was not angels and their halfbreed children

? “Halfbreed” is not found in KJV. Where is the

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scriptures that tell us it was not angels

?”

The scriptures actually tell us it was angels AND daughters of men.

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You deny the scripture that tells us that there is no work or knowledge or wisdom in the grave.

Where is the grave stone and where is the grave of anyone killed in the flood? And WHAT HAS THAT TO DO WITH THE ISSUE?

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You deny the scripture that tells us that the dead cannot praise God and that they cannot hope for God’s truth.

Don't remember it being an issue in my OP.

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You deny the scripture that tells us that God is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living.

Explain!

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If I deny anything it is your misinterpretation of scripture that I believe completely dishonors God and the Work of His Spirit.

WRONG!

By your interpretation of a translation, YOU DENY;
1) that oikeeteerion in one verse is the same as the oikeeteerion in another verse.
2) that eternal angels can sin
3) that satan fell
4) that demons and devils exist
5) that God gives resurrected bodies the form he wants them to have
6) that Christ died for all men, including resurrected men who continued to live in the flesh.
7) that angels were marrying daughters of men BEFORE giants were in the earth.
8) that christ visited fallen angels in prison in tartaroo.
9) that New testament terminology applies only to the new testament.
10) that sin exists in eternity.
11) that oikeeteerion, when applied to men, ONLY APPLIES TO DEAD MEN who are resurrected.
==============================================

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~dafrom (0119) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry 'adamTWOT – 25a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech aw-dawm' Noun Masculine Definition 1.man, mankind a.man, human being b.man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT) c.Adam, first man d.city in Jordan valley King James Word Usage – Total: 552 man 408, men 121, Adam 13, person(s) 8, common sort + (07230) 1, hypocrite 1 Ge 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Ge 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. Ge 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Ge 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Ge 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. Ge 8:21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. ————————————– rwbbgintensive from (01396) Transliterated WordTDNT Entry GibbowrTWOT – 310b Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech ghib-bore' Definition adj 1.strong, mighty n m 2.strong man, brave man, mighty man King James Word Usage – Total: 158 mighty 63, mighty man 68, strong 4, valiant 3, …. ones 4, mighties 2, man 2, valiant men 2, strong man 1, upright man 1, champion 1, chief 1, excel 1, giant 1, men's 1, mightiest 1, strongest 1 Ge 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. Ge 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. Ge 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. ——————————————- Xyacontracted for (0582) [or perhaps rather from an unused root meaning to be extant] Transliterated WordTDNT Entry 'iyshTWOT – 83a Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech eesh Noun Masculine Definition 1.man a.man, male (in contrast to woman, female) b.husband c.human being, person (in contrast to God) d.servant e.mankind f.champion g.great man 2.whosoever 3.each (adjective) King James Word Usage – Total: 1639 man 1002, men 210, one 188, husband 69, any 27, miscellaneous 143 —————————————————- Paladin you said, ” ANGELS ARE EESH Judges 13:6 Then the woman came and told her husband, saying, A man (Eesh) [376] of God came unto me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel (Mal-awk) [4397] of God, very terrible: but I asked him not whence he was, neither told he me his name: There are no female angels. When God created Adam and placed him in the garden, the created angels looked on, not knowing what was to be developed. When God took from Adam, a rib, and formed woman, angels also looked on and pondered. When man first interacted with woman, angels began to wonder. By the sixth chapter of the book of Genesis, they were ready to give up their immortality to enjoy what they saw among fleshly man. They did so, and were destroyed for leaving their proper niche in God's creaton. AND, they counterfeited God's plan for saving mankind. He planned on begetting a manchild to be raised among men, to serve as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of mankind. Angels who cohabited with women so nearly matched God's own plan, he could not allow it to continue, for if he did, men today would not know if Jesus was relaly God's son among men, or if it is simply more angelic interference in man's doings. ” Huh? This is ALL proof that you do not let scripture dictate your understanding, on the contrary you twist scripture to fit your own made up ideas, all the while ignoring other clear scriptures of which prove your doctrine not only to be in error but a disgrace to God and the glorious work of His Spirit. You give ONE scripture that says ONE angel was male, and thus that is your proof that ALL angels are male?

Evidently you have not read the many posts in which I have been castigated for being much too wordy, like when I post many references to prove a point. I gave you one verse telling you angels are eesh. How many do you require?

I know of only one verse that says “God separated light from darkness” but that is sufficient for me to believe God separated light from darkness. How many do YOU require?

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Then you find it ok to take that assumption and create additions to Genesis in relation to how angels felt about female humans? Then you find it perfectly ok to take the glory of eternal life and say that it does not in fact work eternal righteousness, it is weak like mortal flesh and can falter for sexual desire? Wow!

Explain again how angels fell? You know, those who were in eternity with God? Those angles, Those ETERNAL angels?

And I said NOTHING about men clothed in oikeeteerion being weak in mortal fleshly lusts.

Why do you suppose men who fell have a second chance, and angels who fell do not?

Because men, who have not stood in the presence of God and heard hi ssweet voice singing their victory song, and seen the love that surpasses telling, attain salvation through faith in the vicarious sacrifice of the son of God. But angels, who stood in the presence of God, and heard his voice, and witnessed his power in creation, rebelled after they saw those creatures, “man,” whom angels were created to serve, and they therefore have no “second chance” for after once looking upon God and rejecting him, there is no sacrifice that covers that sin.

Sinful men, however, who have lived upon the earth in heartache, and in doubt, in despair, and in poverty, in wars and rumors of wars, in pestilence, and in destructions unimagi
nable, upon dying and looking upon the face of God's love, would NEVER AGAIN be tempted to disobey that author of saving grace.

THAT IS WHY MEN WILL NOT SIN AFTER ETERNAL LIFE. Sin loses its appeal.

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Luke 20:34 And Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Equal to WHO? ANGELS! SONS OF GOD! SONS OF GOD ARE EQUAL TO ANGELS.

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The messengers in Jude and Peter could not possibly be referring to angels, and as well the Sons of God in Genesis could not possibly be referring to angels either.

The angels in Peter and Jude could not possibly be referring to “messengers.” YOU MISAPPLY OIKEETEERION TO LIVING MEN.

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Yes Paladin you have your understanding and I have mine. Thanks for debating, it is good for others to see different views of scripture.

Couldn't put it better myself!

[Jodi Lee]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,11:36)

Hi Jodi, You say this “If I deny anything it is your misinterpretation of scripture that I believe completely dishonors God and the Work of His Spirit. “ But you deny so many of the teachings of the Spirit through Jesus about the devil?

Hi Nick,

I deny your interpretation of scripture, and you deny mine.

[GeneBalthrop]

Paladin………..Whosoever is born of the Spirit (can not sin). If angles are spirits then how can they sin. God forms their spirits (intellect) in them and they are sent out to minister to the Saints. Angles do not sin and are messengers of GOD. Sin was introduced by MAN not angles. Jesus said the adversary of GOD sinned in the beginning and that adversary was Man, not angles. Jesus called Peter SATAN and indeed He was a adversary of GOD not understanding the things of GOD as Jesus said. There is a problem with the word Angle which can just as easily be interpreted as Messenger. To assume angles can sin them would negate their eternal life status, and if men become as the angles it would also negate their eternal life status also, and what of Jesus himself can He also sin and die now, is GOD'S Spirit so week it can nit prevent sin in our lives , can it really transform us or is it all up to us now as well as in the future, are we for ever under the sway of (OUR OWN WILLS) and NOT the WILL of GOD. Does GOD truly work in us (BOTH) the WILL and do HIS good PLEASURE. If He does does he not also work in HIS Angles the same way?. On this issue i tend to agree with Jodi's explanation more brother. IMO

love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

[Paladin]

Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,03:44)

Paladin………..Whosoever is born of the Spirit (can not sin). If angles are spirits then how can they sin. God forms their spirits (intellect) in them and they are sent out to minister to the Saints. Angles do not sin and are messengers of GOD.  Sin was introduced by MAN not angles. Jesus said the adversary of GOD sinned in the beginning and that adversary was Man, not angles. Jesus called Peter SATAN and indeed He was a adversary of GOD not understanding the things of GOD as Jesus said. There is a problem with the word Angle which can just as easily be interpreted as Messenger. To assume angles can sin them would negate their eternal life status, and if men become as the angles it would also negate their eternal life status also, and what of Jesus himself can He also sin and die now, is GOD'S Spirit so week it can nit prevent sin in our lives , can it really transform us or is it all up to us now as well as in the future, are we for ever under the sway of (OUR OWN WILLS) and NOT the WILL of GOD. Does GOD truly work in us (BOTH) the WILL and do HIS good PLEASURE. If He does does he not also work in HIS Angles the same way?. On this issue i tend to agree with Jodi's explanation more brother. IMO love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

Hello brother.

All I require is someone, you or Jodi, please explain how it is wicked men can “put off” or “abandon” their oikeeteerion.

THAT is something men do not even HAVE until they put off mortallity and put on immortality.

Peter and Jude, speak of angels who sinned in the days of Noah, abandoning oikeeteerion. MEN DID NOT HAVE IT, so it HAD to be angels.

If you believe angels could not sin, how do you explain Peter's application of tartarus? Men are not assigned to Tartarus, but to Hades [Luke 16:23] “And in ades [hell] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”

2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to tartaroo [hell], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

If angels do not sin how do you explain how it is angels abandoned oikeeteerion? It CANNOT reference men who did not have oikeeteerion.

Jude 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but [left = apoleipw Meaning: to desert or forsake] their own oikeeteerion [habitation], he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

If there are no evil angels, how could God send evil angels among men?
Psalm 78:49 He cast upon them the fierceness of his anger, wrath, and indignation, and trouble, by sending evil angels among them.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,03:44)

Paladin………..Whosoever is born of the Spirit (can not sin). If angles are spirits then how can they sin. God forms their spirits (intellect) in them and they are sent out to minister to the Saints. Angles do not sin and are messengers of GOD.  Sin was introduced by MAN not angles. Jesus said the adversary of GOD sinned in the beginning and that adversary was Man, not angles. Jesus called Peter SATAN and indeed He was a adversary of GOD not understanding the things of GOD as Jesus said. There is a problem with the word Angle which can just as easily be interpreted as Messenger. To assume angles can sin them would negate their eternal life status, and if men become as the angles it would also negate their eternal life status also, and what of Jesus himself can He also sin and die now, is GOD'S Spirit so week it can nit prevent sin in our lives , can it really transform us or is it all up to us now as well as in the future, are we for ever under the sway of (OUR OWN WILLS) and NOT the WILL of GOD. Does GOD truly work in us (BOTH) the WILL and do HIS good PLEASURE. If He does does he not also work in HIS Angles the same way?. On this issue i tend to agree with Jodi's explanation more brother. IMO love and peace to you and yours………………….gene

G,
Cannot or do not?
1Jn

Why can spirits somehow not sin?
The lake of fire is for the devil and his angels.

[GeneBalthrop]

NH…………whosoever is (born) of (HOLY SPIRIT) (holy intellect) can not sin. Why because HOLY SPIRIT (HOLY INTELLECT) is Guiding HIS thoughts and He can not sin. Because GOD”S SEED abides in HIM and He can not sin. He is a (NEW CREATION). Its no longer a he can sin if he wants to or not situation, because the Spirit of GOD (GOD'S SEED) is the mind of GOD in him. If you understood what SPIRIT was, you could easily understand this. Spirits are not beings they are intellects , both good and evil intellects are Spirits and words express them.. Now when these intellects are in a body they influence it but when removed they can not effect it . God can and does remove these evil and unclean intellects from us when we are born of the Holy Spirit . You ask why can spirit somehow not sin?, its because Spirit is not sin it is intellect it is not a person or being, but when in someone can cause them to sin as in the case of man. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

[Christian Biker]

Sin is covered, not erased or stopped.

“Mat 18:21, 22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.”

“Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.”

“Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;”

“1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

[NickHassan]

G,
So where does scripture say angELS are born of the Holy Spirit and where does it say that those who are born of the Spirit cannot sin?

Spirit is not written to be intellect is it?

[Paladin]

Quote (Gene @ July 21 2009,13:54)

NH…………whosoever is (born) of (HOLY SPIRIT) (holy intellect) can not sin. Why because HOLY SPIRIT (HOLY INTELLECT) is Guiding HIS thoughts and He can not sin. Because GOD”S SEED abides in HIM and He can not sin. He is a (NEW CREATION).  Its no longer a he can sin if he wants to or not situation, because the Spirit of GOD (GOD'S SEED) is the mind of GOD  in him. If you understood what SPIRIT was, you could easily understand this.  Spirits are not beings they are intellects , both good and evil intellects are Spirits and words express them.. Now when these intellects are in a body they influence it but when removed they can not effect it . God can and does remove these evil and unclean intellects from us when we are born of the Holy Spirit . You ask why can spirit somehow not sin?, its because Spirit is not sin it is intellect it is not a person or being,  but when in someone can cause them to sin as in the case of man. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene

ALL ANGELS WERE CREATED BEINGS.
Psalm 148:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise ye the LORD from the heavens: praise him in the heights. 2 Praise ye him, ALL HIS ANGELS: praise ye him, all his hosts. 3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light. 4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. 5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and THEY WERE CREATED.

SOME ANGELS DEALT PROUDLY
Exodus 18:11 Now I know that JEHOVAH is greater than all ELOHIYM: for in the thing wherein they dealt proudly he was above them. [Elohiym is translated “angels” in Psalm 8:5]

GOD CHARGED THEM WITH FOLLY
Job 4:18 Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly: 19 How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?

[GeneBalthrop]

Paladin ……….the issue is (BORN) of the (HOLY) SPIRIT, i was addressing. Spirit is simply Intellect it is NOT a being of any kind it is purely Knowledge and exists in a state of good and evil, clean and unclean spirits (intellects) Within a body form. When an unclean spirit (intellect) leaves a man (IT) goes about in (Arid ) places seeking rest. why? because if spirit (intellect) (exists alone) it is useless, and can effect nothing, but when it is in a Body it can animates it. Much like a book in a library it is useless unless it is taken and read and it can effect who reads it, because He is taking it into his thinking. Spirit it self is (NOT) a being it is the intellect controlling the being. Holy Spirit is the Intellect (MIND) of GOD and if it is in you it will produce the fruits of it in you. When we are born of Holy Spirit we do not sin “because he that is in you is greater then you and changes your Will, “for He works in us BOTH to WILL and do of HIS good pleasure”. For God who is Holy SPIRIT ( HOLY INTELLECT) is in you, this is His seed and it will cause us to cease from sin and produce in us the Fruit of this intellect or Spirit. IMO

peace and love to you and yours brother………………….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

NIck……..Scripture says GOD creates the Spirits of HIS angles and they are sent out to minister unto those He is calling. Where does it say Angles (can sin), If GOD created them the way they are then they will perform the way they were created. The problem here is that people do not see the power GOD has in the creating process. You and other want to hold on to (YOUR) Self righteousness, excluding GOD the FATHER in the Process of SALVATION , making you salvation a matter of MANS WORK , not GOD'S WORK. In so doing you are rejecting the GRACE of GOD. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

[Author]

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