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Nick……….Jesus was a man full of (GRACE) by that He was able to put His Will to (DEATH) God was doing the work in Him as Jesus plainly SAID> It wasn't about Jesus it's about GOD working in HIM .
Nick …..another lie, please show us where i said all (ARE) SAVED. Show me that please.
Hi GB,
Scripture speaks of usthat we are saved.
we are being saved
and be will be saved.so it is all the same to God.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 16 2008,16:45) 942767……A FREE WILL, cannot exist because to be FREE it cannot be influenced by any thing either internal or external of It self. Most people do not truly understand the meaning of Free Will, or how a Will works in a person if they did they would realize it certainly iis not free at all.
The simplest way to understand it is to understand what is truly FREE and what FREE means the word imply s no causality of any kind, you simply decide something whit out any influence whatsoever actually nothing exist like that, every choice we make comes from thing which are in us and those things were installed in us during our lives at different points in them. So when you desire something you simply select from whats already in you, most of our learning came from the world so most who are not converted will chose from what they learned from the world, but that still is not free will, because there is not such thing as a Will FREE of every thing and most are held captive by whats in their minds and that is what they chose from, Jesus said He came to set the captives free, free from what the wrong things in their minds so the could get the right things in them and they would chose from them and make right choices but even those choices are not free choices they are influenced choices, simply put there is no Such thing as “FREE WILL” Theres is WILL but not (FREE WILL) It's no where in scripture. People just like to think they have a FREE WILL, but they actually do not. It's all cause and effect, in fact cause and effect has never been disproved. Scientist and Psychologists have proved that over and over , for every thing there is a cause. But man wants to think he is the captain of his destiny, and get to chose his outcome, but nothing could be further from the truth then that, God creates our destiny's that why Jesus said (THY) WILL BE DONE> And that God may be in all and through ALL.peace to you and yours………..gene
Hi brother 942767,
This is wonderful explanation on definition of 'free will' that was given by our brother Gene. I was also a strong believer of this 'free will' earlier but now God is teaching me to unlearn this misconception on this subject. I hope you will appreciate the above post. If you want more information please gothrough this link.
http://bible-truths.com/lake15.html and also
http://www.eternallifeministries.org/wc_myth.htm]http://www.eternallifeministries.org/wc_myth….tm]
Thanks and blessings
AdamHi GB,
You said in another thread
” You can have the God you serve, I'll take the God who I serve any day of the week who is not willing for any to parish and with His creative power cause all to eventually to be saved even if they have to go through fiery judgments and trials. The God you portray is a monster , not a loving, forgiving , Creator who is not willing that any parish. I would watch how I Portray Him if I were Your. He might become to you which you think he is to others.”So all are not now saved but all will be in your doctrine?
Nick…..again your blinded by you self piousness, The salvation of and is God's WILL , not MY DOCTRINE, So take it up with Him not me, face it you just don't want GOD to save ALL, You cant stand the idea of God doing that, you reject all the scriptures showing that is what GOD will do. You (REALLY) don't believe ” God has concluded all (including you) Under SIN, that He might Have (MERCY ON ALL)>You just hate that don't you?
But never the less a little peon like you will not change GOD's plan for His creation I will guaranty it.
IMO…….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 17 2008,05:19) Nick…..again your blinded by you self piousness, The salvation of and is God's WILL , not MY DOCTRINE, So take it up with Him not me, face it you just don't want GOD to save ALL, You cant stand the idea of God doing that, you reject all the scriptures showing that is what GOD will do. You (REALLY) don't believe ” God has concluded all (including you) Under SIN, that He might Have (MERCY ON ALL)>You just hate that don't you? But never the less a little peon like you will not change GOD's plan for His creation I will guaranty it.
IMO…….gene
Brother Gene…Can you give me the Scriptures that say ALL WILL BE SAVED…Hi brother DK,
Here are such scriptures that say Christ died for the sins of the whole world not for few only. God has reconcilled the whole world back to Him through Jesus our Lord.“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to myself.” (John 12:32)
“The Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.” (Luke 9:56)
“…to reconcile all things unto Himself.” (Colossians 1:16-20)
“…God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses…” (II Corinthians 5:19)
“…God, who is the saviour of all men…” (I Timothy 4:10)
“…who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.” (I Timothy 2:4)
“…and so shall all Israel be saved.” (Romans 11:26)
“(Christ) was the true light which lights every man that comes into the world.” (John 1:9)
“Consequently, then as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the one, the many shall be constituted just.”
(Romans 5:19)“If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus as through fire.”
(I Corinthians 3:15)“…he (Christ) is propitiation for our sins: and not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
( I John 2:2)“Yet, all is of God, who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation, how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of conciliation.” (II Corinthians 5:18-19)
According to scripture, Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, created all things; reconciles all things; is heir of all things; has authority of all things; will have all men to be saved; His grace comes to all men; He takes away the sin of the world; He gives His flesh for the life of the world. He is the propitiation for the sins of the world; whose gifts are irrevocable, of which life is one of the gifts. He manifested to put away sin. He preached to the spirits in prison and holds the keys to death and hell; who changes not. He is Lord of both the living and the dead; He will destroy all enemies of God, the last one being death; who made all things alive; who completes the work the Father gave Him to do; who restores all things; gave Himself a ransom for all. He takes away the curse and said He came to do the will and work of the Father, who wills that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so that God may be all in all.
Thanks and blessings
AdamHi GM,
Can you not see that God gave the opportunity to all men for salvation
but we are still expected to respond to that free gift?If you never accepted gifts would you have them?
I agree but the scriptures say “…. all will be saved”
If God is not acting on us how can we come to Him and know Him?Nick….Rom 8:19 “for the earnest expectation of the creature waits for the manifestation of the sons of God, For the creature was (MADE) subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who has subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself also (SHALL BE DELIVERED) from the (BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION) into the GLORIOUS LIBERTY OF THE CHILDREN OF GOD)>
Nick where does it say they will all or any be destroyed for ever. Thats your heart speaking not GOD”S Heart, who would have (ALL MEN TO BE SAVED).
Quote (gollamudi @ July 19 2008,20:20) Hi brother DK,
Here are such scriptures that say Christ died for the sins of the whole world not for few only. God has reconcilled the whole world back to Him through Jesus our Lord.“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to myself.” (John 12:32)
“The Son of man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them.” (Luke 9:56)
“…to reconcile all things unto Himself.” (Colossians 1:16-20)
“…God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses…” (II Corinthians 5:19)
“…God, who is the saviour of all men…” (I Timothy 4:10)
“…who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.” (I Timothy 2:4)
“…and so shall all Israel be saved.” (Romans 11:26)
“(Christ) was the true light which lights every man that comes into the world.” (John 1:9)
“Consequently, then as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the one, the many shall be constituted just.”
(Romans 5:19)“If anyone's work shall be burned up, he will forfeit it, yet he shall be saved, yet thus as through fire.”
(I Corinthians 3:15)“…he (Christ) is propitiation for our sins: and not for our sins only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
( I John 2:2)“Yet, all is of God, who conciliates us to Himself through Christ, and is giving us the dispensation of the conciliation, how that God was in Christ, conciliating the world to Himself, not reckoning their offenses to them, and placing in us the word of conciliation.” (II Corinthians 5:18-19)
According to scripture, Jesus Christ, Son of the living God, created all things; reconciles all things; is heir of all things; has authority of all things; will have all men to be saved; His grace comes to all men; He takes away the sin of the world; He gives His flesh for the life of the world. He is the propitiation for the sins of the world; whose gifts are irrevocable, of which life is one of the gifts. He manifested to put away sin. He preached to the spirits in prison and holds the keys to death and hell; who changes not. He is Lord of both the living and the dead; He will destroy all enemies of God, the last one being death; who made all things alive; who completes the work the Father gave Him to do; who restores all things; gave Himself a ransom for all. He takes away the curse and said He came to do the will and work of the Father, who wills that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth, so that God may be all in all.
Thanks and blessings
Adam
Adam………Amen brother, you have it right.Love to you and yours, give your wife and kids a hug for me…..gene
Hi GB
Rom8 16
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him , that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they , but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit , the redemption of our body.”Indeed God will manifest and establish a remnant people, the sons of God, who share in his Spirit, and who will help him put to order again all of creation.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2008,20:28) Hi GM,
Where does scripture say all men will be saved?
Hi brother Nick,
Please see my post once again, you will get the answer that God is the one who is capable of saving all not by the free will of any man. Here are some examples“…God, who is the saviour of all men…” (I Timothy 4:10)
“…who will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.” (I Timothy 2:4).
thanks and blessings
AdamHi GM,
The capacity of God has never been in doubt.
Indeed God is the Saviour of all men everyday.But God regards as precious the choice of individuals to obey and to serve Him.
Mt20
28But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.29He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Romans 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.He sends His rain on the good and the wicked alike.
Nick…..because their hearts have been changed by GOD, no themselves. Their so-called free will had nothing to do with it. The GRACE of God changed it.
And being your talking about children, why don't you look at the man who had two sons and one took his inheritance an blow it on sin full living and eventually was received back with full status as a son, notice in the story the attitude of the son who did not foolishly spend his inheritance . He resented his brother and his father, interesting don't you think.
Hi,
Of course walking in that grace is optional.
That is why Paul exhorted them
Acts 13:43
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.We have access to this grace
Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.That grace is able to build us up.
Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.2 Corinthians 8:6
Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 21 2008,09:29) Hi,
Of course walking in that grace is optional.
That is why Paul exhorted them
Acts 13:43
Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
We have access to this grace
Romans 5:2
By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.That grace is able to build us up.
Acts 20:32
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.2 Corinthians 8:6
Insomuch that we desired Titus, that as he had begun, so he would also finish in you the same grace also.
NHExactly! Men are blind to think that God will just dump his grace on unwilling vessels!
And so it is written of the parable of the sower.
Some seed fell on stony ground and because it had no root when tribulation and trials came it withered away.
But some seed fell on good ground and bore fruit, some 30 some 60 and some 100 fold.
The willing and the obedient shall eat the good of the land.
Jesus said “If you love me, keep my commandments” and “he that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me and I will love him and will manifest myself to him.”
He who hath an ear let him hear.
What kind of love would it be if it was not from a willing heart that has taken up their cross and denied themselves and followed him?
Yeshua has paid the price for our sins by sacrificing his life, and now he requires his followers to sacrifice their life for him by dieing daily to themselves so that he might live in them.
What sacrifice or sweet smell would it be to God if he did it for us?
WJ…what do you do with where it says God hated Esau and loved Jacob before they were ever born. and the potter and the clay thing, And where Jesus told his disciples He choses them they did not choose Him. And where Jesus said all the father brings to him he will except and grant eternal life to. He did not say that they chose of there own (FREE) wills to except him. In fact Jesus plainly said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me except the Father draw Him. Even the day of Pentecost is proof of that , without God Spirit convicting them in their hearts they would not have said men and brethren what shall we do seeing we have put to death the son of God.That would never have happened with out God Spirit involved.
IMO……….gene
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