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Amen to that post brother Gene.
Here is the powerful verse which disproves this free will, please see the verse in James 113 “When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death'.
No free will here only influenced infact a person is dragged and enticed by his evil desires that are already feeded in him because of his earlier exposure to such sins. he will not be tempted with some thing which is not known to him. I experienced this in my life also.
I believe every thing in this world is as a result of cause and effects including our Salvation which is also by the good cause of God our Father.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamHi GM,
Where does the verse say previous experience has fed lust into us?
Personal experience does not count in matters of scripture.Rather I believe the verse tells us lust is already in each man waiting to be given life by our choices.
Nick…..your wrong again…..”All thats in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life are (OF) or FROM the world”. So if there from the world how do you think it got into or minds , (Through the World) And that causes us to choose these things . Sin entered into the world and spread to all man Kind Through Adam , how because man brain became infected with sin.
It doesn't take a very smart (spiritually minded person) to understand that.
Quote (gollamudi @ July 15 2008,02:57) Amen to that post brother Gene.
Here is the powerful verse which disproves this free will, please see the verse in James 113 “When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death'.
No free will here only influenced infact a person is dragged and enticed by his evil desires that are already feeded in him because of his earlier exposure to such sins. he will not be tempted with some thing which is not known to him. I experienced this in my life also.
I believe every thing in this world is as a result of cause and effects including our Salvation which is also by the good cause of God our Father.
Thanks and peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam:And so, you are essentially saying that when we are tempted and yield to temptation: “the devil made me do it”?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2008,09:00) Nick…..your wrong again…..”All thats in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life are (OF) or FROM the world”. So if there from the world how do you think it got into or minds , (Through the World) And that causes us to choose these things . Sin entered into the world and spread to all man Kind Through Adam , how because man brain became infected with sin. It doesn't take a very smart (spiritually minded person) to understand that.
Hi GB,
So the god of this world is responsible?942767….> the devil is us not some spiritual being going around tempting people. Whats in us is what tempts, not God or a spirit being call the devil, the devil is just another term for evil or the intellect of adversity to God. There is no such thing a literal being called the devil . The whole thing is a pagan fabrication, Read if you get time what Newton had to say about the devil and demons ect.
IMO…….gene
IMO……gene
Hi GB,
What is this global intellect of adversity to God?
Scripture speaks of the devil through the one called truth-Jesus.
Surely you are not a greater teacher than Him?Nick…..Your ignorance is showing, Jesus talked in the language of that day so they could understand. He spoke of casting out demons because those people saw all mental illness as a form of demon possession. The did not realize it was a mental illness . I think you better dig out your (GOD GIVEN LOGIC) out of the trash can and start using it for a change.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2008,09:12) 942767….> the devil is us not some spiritual being going around tempting people. Whats in us is what tempts, not God or a spirit being call the devil, the devil is just another term for evil or the intellect of adversity to God. There is no such thing a literal being called the devil . The whole thing is a pagan fabrication, Read if you get time what Newton had to say about the devil and demons ect. IMO…….gene
IMO……gene
Hi Gene:Do we have to yield to the temptation or can we do as God directs us, saying “resist the devil and he will flee from you”.
Quote Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Jam 4:7 ¶ Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from youThe temptation to do evil may come from within from the evil nature that you developed when you were in the world practicing sin wilfully or it can come from another person inviting you to do evil.
Quote Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.
Pro 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Pro 1:12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:
Pro 1:13 We shall find all precious substance, we shall fill our houses with spoil:
Pro 1:14 Cast in thy lot among us; let us all have one purse:
Pro 1:15 My son, walk not thou in the way with them; refrain thy foot from their path:
Pro 1:16 For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.Do you have to yield to the temptation?
Quote Psa 1:1 ¶ Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
Psa 1:2 But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psa 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
Psa 1:4 The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.God Bless
942767…> you will go with what ever is the greatest in you in fact you can not prevent it. Let me give you a good example, I tried fo a full year to quit smoking and could not quit i was sincere and rely tried but failed, and after a year i realized i could not kick the habit, So I decided to talk to God about it and i told him that i could not quite and i would try one more time and if He did not take the habit away i would smoke till i died i was through trying, So when i got up from prayer i Had a pack of cigarettes and waited to see if i would desire them again and if i did i would not try again, but i went the day without even any withdrawals and then tow days,then a month,still no desire what so ever and i went that way for 12 years and did not so much as even have a desire for one, God took all of it from me as if i never ever smoked at all. Now my point is who delivered me was it me (NO) it was God. In some of my sins God had to deal with me in harder way by disciplines and scourging s, but he never forsook me no matter what i did. And i am happy to say he has given me victory over many sins, through the power of (HIS) might, not mine. The glory is HIS> WE resit sin because of God's GRACE working in us and empowering us to overcome all sin.
Unless the lord shall build the house the weary builders toil in vain, unless the Lord's the city's shield the guards maintain a useless watch.
love and peace to you and yours…………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 15 2008,11:20) 942767…> you will go with what ever is the greatest in you in fact you can not prevent it. Let me give you a good example, I tried fo a full year to quit smoking and could not quit i was sincere and rely tried but failed, and after a year i realized i could not kick the habit, So I decided to talk to God about it and i told him that i could not quite and i would try one more time and if He did not take the habit away i would smoke till i died i was through trying, So when i got up from prayer i Had a pack of cigarettes and waited to see if i would desire them again and if i did i would not try again, but i went the day without even any withdrawals and then tow days,then a month,still no desire what so ever and i went that way for 12 years and did not so much as even have a desire for one, God took all of it from me as if i never ever smoked at all. Now my point is who delivered me was it me (NO) it was God. In some of my sins God had to deal with me in harder way by disciplines and scourging s, but he never forsook me no matter what i did. And i am happy to say he has given me victory over many sins, through the power of (HIS) might, not mine. The glory is HIS> WE resit sin because of God's GRACE working in us and empowering us to overcome all sin. Unless the lord shall build the house the weary builders toil in vain, unless the Lord's the city's shield the guards maintain a useless watch.
love and peace to you and yours…………gene
He is our helper as our Father Gene, and he will help us to overcome addictions such as you mention if we ask Him for help, but regarding the temptation to sin I have given you scripture which shows that we have to apply what he teaches us. I'll quote another scripture or two for you:Quote Psa 119:10 With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Psa 119:12 Blessed [art] thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutesQuote Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.God Bless
Hi brother 942767,
I was not meant that we are tempted by the devil but by our own old sinful nature that is already exists in us. Please see your own post above you said “He is our helper as our Father, and he will help us to overcome addictions such as you mention if we ask Him for help” if God is the one who can help us to overcome the addictions then where is this “free will” brother? It is another flaw just human logic no scriptural proof for “free will”.
Please think over.
Peace to you
Adam942767……Adam is right by So=Called free will could nt overcome the cigarette addition i earnestly tried of a solid year, but when i gave up and surrendered it to God it was instantly removed, that's the point i was trying to make. You can not change or overcome anything really with out God's help, Fear can give a Carnal mind restraint but it will never perfect it to where the problem will no longer exist, but God can completely remove the problem and heal us. Jesus said who soever overcomes (EVEN AS I HAVE) we have to do it the way Jesus did it, and that was total trust and Faith in the Father, thats how Jesus overcame, “The Father in me (HE) doth the WORKS> by GRACE are you saved.
peace to you………. gene
no such thing as free will, read
http://www.reformedreader.org/rbb/edwards/fowindex.htmblessings,
KenQuote (gollamudi @ July 15 2008,13:54) Hi brother 942767,
I was not meant that we are tempted by the devil but by our own old sinful nature that is already exists in us. Please see your own post above you said “He is our helper as our Father, and he will help us to overcome addictions such as you mention if we ask Him for help” if God is the one who can help us to overcome the addictions then where is this “free will” brother? It is another flaw just human logic no scriptural proof for “free will”.
Please think over.
Peace to you
Adam
Hi Adam and Gene:Please give me your definition of what is meant by “free will” or what you think that it means. I believe that you are misunderstanding what I mean by “free will”.
Tell me what you think that it means.
Thanks & God Bless
942767……A FREE WILL, cannot exist because to be FREE it cannot be influenced by any thing either internal or external of It self. Most people do not truly understand the meaning of Free Will, or how a Will works in a person if they did they would realize it certainly iis not free at all.
The simplest way to understand it is to understand what is truly FREE and what FREE means the word imply s no causality of any kind, you simply decide something whit out any influence whatsoever actually nothing exist like that, every choice we make comes from thing which are in us and those things were installed in us during our lives at different points in them. So when you desire something you simply select from whats already in you, most of our learning came from the world so most who are not converted will chose from what they learned from the world, but that still is not free will, because there is not such thing as a Will FREE of every thing and most are held captive by whats in their minds and that is what they chose from, Jesus said He came to set the captives free, free from what the wrong things in their minds so the could get the right things in them and they would chose from them and make right choices but even those choices are not free choices they are influenced choices, simply put there is no Such thing as “FREE WILL” Theres is WILL but not (FREE WILL) It's no where in scripture. People just like to think they have a FREE WILL, but they actually do not. It's all cause and effect, in fact cause and effect has never been disproved. Scientist and Psychologists have proved that over and over , for every thing there is a cause. But man wants to think he is the captain of his destiny, and get to chose his outcome, but nothing could be further from the truth then that, God creates our destiny's that why Jesus said (THY) WILL BE DONE> And that God may be in all and through ALL.peace to you and yours………..gene
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