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Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2010,06:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2010,12:43) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,04:05) (there is a conotation of more than one person in the name Elohim)
Hi Ted,Not even close. I have become quite knowledgeable about this subject through the process of debating it with Kangaroo Jack.
The word “elohim” can either mean “more than one god” or “a grandiose god”. It can never mean “more than one person in a Godhead”.
This “plural of majesty” as it is commonly called, is used many times in scripture for other words than “god” also. For example, King Nebuchadnezzar was called the “Kings of kings”. That first plural “Kings” did not mean Nebuchadnezzar consisted of more than one person. It emphasized that he was the “grandiose King above other kings”. That's just one example.
peace and love,
mike
Greetings Mike….perhaps the person was the wrong choice of words ….I would think that the conotation in the term elohim indicates more than one ….perhaps even family…
The “connotation”? Why………..because it is a plural word?Spell it out for me Ted.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 14 2010,04:26) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,11:02) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 14 2010,02:51) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,23:29) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 13 2010,23:04) karmarie: Neither offering was bad or wrong or evil, it was just that the lord preferred the meat offering over the vegetable offering (?)
IMO TK
Hi Tim,You certainly do NOT know God's word very well; do you?
The ground was ‘cursed’ because of Adams sin. (Gen.3:17)
Cain brought a curse offering to YHVH, but Abel's was pure!
That's why Cains offering was unacceptable to YHVH!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You say the Bible says… cursed is the ground because of Adams sin.The Bible says, ….the Lord said to Adam ….cursed is the ground for thy sake….! The word sin is not in the Garden unles you make it up.
How well do you know the Bible?
Hi Tim,YHVH gave (The Law) the command not to
eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Sin is the ‘transgression of the law’. (1John 3:4)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdAmen! Thats pretty clear. Also John said that whoever says he has no sin is a liar! 1 John 1:8
WJ
WJ: When John said….whoever says he has no sin is a liar….was that in reference to a person before he ask God for forgiveness or after he ask God for forgiveness?I was under the impression that if one ask God/Jesus to forgive his sins, they would be forgiven! If he is forgiven of his sin then how could it be that he is a liar if he says he has no sin?
That kinda misquote could really mess up a young new believer that has just received cleansing from Jesus for sin. To tell him he is a liar if he says his sins are forgiven and blotted out. The real truth is after receiving for forgiveness for sin if one then said he actually still had sin, that would be the liar!
Quoting 1John 1:8 without quoting V7 & V9 seems almost to be a purposeful attempt at damnation to the readers. I must be wrong. TK
Hi Tim. Thanks.
You said,
Quote karmarie: I have no label other than one I will make up: I am a follower of Jesus! I have read some of the Gnostic gospels yet in truth I don't even know what the word Gnostic means. So, no I am not a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that God of the Old Testament was a 'lesser god', and that Jesus came to reveal the true Father. Do you believe God of the Old Testament is the Father of Jesus ?
Quote People say Adam sinned but the Bible says they had a choice, kinda like today, I set before you good and evil, now, you choose, but choose good Thats true. Once the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth then we know from scripture what is right or wrong. So we choose if we obey God or if we disobey.
Quote If we all belive in peace and love, that is what will be. That is true.
Quote Or he got puffed up and thought he was above others due to his great works which did the same thing as condemnation. I believe there are people who try to do no wrong yet they're 'hearts are far from Him'. I believe making mistakes is part of the learning process. But for reformation, obedience to God learnt through error.
Quote Finally my answer, stay away from self condemnation and condemnation of others. If you judge something as wrong to do, don't transgress it! If you do, accept forgiveness and try again. Don't hold on to unforgiveness. Self condemnation blocks the light of God from our minds. Sin thinking cuts off the truth/light. Jesus said my words cleanse you and you are perfect. Recieve that judgment and you are free. Let the master of all, the King of kings and lord of lords be your judge. That is the word of God/Jesus judging us as perfect, whole, complete, sinless, clean, worthy, righteous etc.! Then we can show the world true LOVE! IMO TK But Tim, If I say I am a Christian, show people I am, then go on and sin ?
Ok, say I had a friend and I told her I was a believer, and she admired what I had and began to wonder and pray, or maybe God started working in her, and then if I sinned and coveted her husband, and then acted on that sin, then her faith in what she was learning is shattered, just as her marriage would be.
So, I see what you are saying, but I also hear what Jesus was saying. Jesus lived the law perfectly. Not only that, but it became an issue involving not just actions or lack of, but also something of the thoughts and heart, something deeper. So if I was to look lustfully at another, then I have committed sin already. If I was to think of murdering someone, then I have already committed murder.
And every sin is punishable if not truly repented of, and repentance means changing the behavior. 'Sin no more'
Jesus said repeatedly not to sin. Not even to think of sin (You are right here but in the wrong way I think)
We are supposed to be 'perfect'. Perfect not just in what we do or don't do, but perfect in our thoughts and our hearts.
I would put here verses to show this, but there are too many – see. Sin or the thought of sin separates us from God.
So Tim, is this how you see it or what ?
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 14 2010,22:03) Hi Tim. Thanks. You said,
Quote karmarie: I have no label other than one I will make up: I am a follower of Jesus! I have read some of the Gnostic gospels yet in truth I don't even know what the word Gnostic means. So, no I am not a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that God of the Old Testament was a 'lesser god', and that Jesus came to reveal the true Father. Do you believe God of the Old Testament is the Father of Jesus ?
Quote People say Adam sinned but the Bible says they had a choice, kinda like today, I set before you good and evil, now, you choose, but choose good Thats true. Once the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth then we know from scripture what is right or wrong. So we choose if we obey God or if we disobey.
Quote If we all belive in peace and love, that is what will be. That is true.
Quote Or he got puffed up and thought he was above others due to his great works which did the same thing as condemnation. I believe there are people who try to do no wrong yet they're 'hearts are far from Him'. I believe making mistakes is part of the learning process. But for reformation, obedience to God learnt through error.
Quote Finally my answer, stay away from self condemnation and condemnation of others. If you judge something as wrong to do, don't transgress it! If you do, accept forgiveness and try again. Don't hold on to unforgiveness. Self condemnation blocks the light of God from our minds. Sin thinking cuts off the truth/light. Jesus said my words cleanse you and you are perfect. Recieve that judgment and you are free. Let the master of all, the King of kings and lord of lords be your judge. That is the word of God/Jesus judging us as perfect, whole, complete, sinless, clean, worthy, righteous etc.! Then we can show the world true LOVE! IMO TK But Tim, If I say I am a Christian, show people I am, then go on and sin ?
Ok, say I had a friend and I told her I was a believer, and she admired what I had and began to wonder and pray, or maybe God started working in her, and then if I sinned and coveted her husband, and then acted on that sin, then her faith in what she was learning is shattered, just as her marriage would be.
So, I see what you are saying, but I also hear what Jesus was saying. Jesus lived the law perfectly. Not only that, but it became an issue involving not just actions or lack of, but also something of the thoughts and heart, something deeper. So if I was to look lustfully at another, then I have committed sin already. If I was to think of murdering someone, then I have already committed murder.
And every sin is punishable if not truly repented of, and repentance means changing the behavior. 'Sin no more'
Jesus said repeatedly not to sin. Not even to think of sin (You are right here but in the wrong way I think)
We are supposed to be 'perfect'. Perfect not just in what we do or don't do, but perfect in our thoughts and our hearts.
I would put here verses to show this, but there are too many – see. Sin or the thought of sin separates us from God.
So Tim, is this how you see it or what ?
karmarie: Bless you. I love your questions and will do my best to answer them from my heart. I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me.The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.
It appears to me that you believe that the plan of God through Jesus is somehow to make us walk or talk or do the things of life one way or another. Like we have a rule book and we are being judged as to which direction we choose. IMO that is not the truth. The freedom Jesus came to teach and show to all was intended to make humanity free from that very belief. IMO we are not being judged by what we do or don't do in this life.
We are in a war in our minds for the truth of God or non-truth of Man. Errant thinking has separated man from union with God for generations. IMO, errant thinking is sin in the mind of man. This is the cause separation or disunity man has felt with God for generations. Sin is not something you do or don't do!
My definition of sin is: Condemnation in your heart against others or your self for something done that separates him or the other person from God.
In Christ there is no condemnation. In the same way Christ does not condemn you, do not condemn others or yourself!
Choosing good or evil in the mind and making a condemning judgment that something done or not done is good or bad in the eyes of God is not our business. This is sin and causes a sin consciousness. Believing that you are doing wrong depresses the spirit. It covers the light within. It renders the powerful mind of Christ week or even powerless.
Forgiveness and righteousness, worthyness, cleanliness and perfection in the mind energize it, brighten it, excite it and generate great power to bring forth what ever one dreams on into their life to be experienced. We were made to dream until the dream comes true! God, all the power of the universe can flow through a mans mind that is clear, uncluttered, unblocked, clean with no sin thinking. This is the perfection that I believe Jesus gave his life for us to find!
If you can hear no evil, see no evil, and think no evil there will be no evil, death, disease, or sickness experienced in your life on earth. We were made to live in heaven on earth!
Don't try to be good enough to get to God or please God! Jesus did it for you and gave it to you for free as a gift.Faith is what pleases God. Faith in what he has had done for us at great price. Now, every day is the sabbath rest with Jesus in perfection and freedom. This is what he died for. God bless you.
PS: Jesus did not follow the law. He did not follow the sabbath laws. His disciples picked and ate corn on the sabbath. Jesus did not exercise lawful washings or rituals. Jesus did not pay the temple tax. Jesus healed on he sabbath.
Jesus set the woman free from adultry where the law said she must be stoned. Either adultry wasn't a sin or Jesus broke the law by setting her free!Lastly, if you are in God and God is in you (peace,love,joy etc.) then the thought of murder or killing is not
there.The word sin was used twice in Matthew, Mark and Luke! I would not say that Jesus repeatedly said not to sin.
Perfect is not what we can do. Perfect is what God has done for us through Jesus. If you believe, you are perfect. If you don't believe, you have condemned youself. Bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,09:08) I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me.
Hi Tim,Hit the Quote button above your “post box”. Paste what you want to quote behind the
that shows up. Then hit the Quote button again after the paste. (The Quote button will have an asterick on it to show it is the end of the quote, not the beginning.)
Do you know how to “cut and paste”? If so, it should be easy.
P.S. You don't even have to mess with the Quote button if you don't want. You can just type: left bracket, the word quote, then right bracket. Type or paste the words you want to show up in the quote box after that right bracket. Then AFTER the words you want quoted, type: left bracket, forward slash, the word quote, then right bracket.
peace and love,
mikeBy the way, Tim.
I never heard back from you on my last two posts. (#1 and #2 on page 14)
I realize you are having a discussion with Shimmer and a war with Ed here, so take your time.
I was really just curious if you understood my explanation about “the Lord YHVH, God Almighty”.
mike
Hi Tim.
The God of the Old Testament IS the same as Jesus. Jesus speaks for His Father. His Father is there in the Old Testament but what you need to understand here, is that God is love, and love shows itself in many ways.
I knew someone who had no love and didn't care about anyone other than himself. The only anger he showed was for selfish reasons, not cause he cared. In contrast I know people who do love and although they love they – out of love – will also correct people out of concern for them.
God disciplines those who He loves. It's in scripture.
Jude say's to save some as if saving them from a fire.
Well, it is everlasting life or everlasting death. So, it matters. If we obey God and love our neighbor as ourself. And there is joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents.
So many times I have been given through prayer words in the Old Testament. Jesus read and quoted out of the Old Testament.
I would be lost without the loving guidance of the Father.
But even so, there was a lot in what you wrote which was good. You have the Son. So you just need the Father now. I have felt as you did once over the Old Testament. But I see it different now.
Have you read the Old Testament, or only parts of it ?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2010,14:00) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,09:08) I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me.
Hi Tim,Hit the Quote button above your “post box”. Paste what you want to quote behind the
that shows up. Then hit the Quote button again after the paste. (The Quote button will have an asterick on it to show it is the end of the quote, not the beginning.)
Do you know how to “cut and paste”? If so, it should be easy.
P.S. You don't even have to mess with the Quote button if you don't want. You can just type: left bracket, the word quote, then right bracket. Type or paste the words you want to show up in the quote box after that right bracket. Then AFTER the words you want quoted, type: left bracket, forward slash, the word quote, then right bracket.
peace and love,
mike
Thanks Mike for taking the time to teach me quotes. You are very kind. TKQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 13 2010,02:11) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 12 2010,21:33)
Mike: Please be sure you know that I have never put myself anywhere with God.
That's good to know, Tim. I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were saying we were all “God/Men”.Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 12 2010,21:33)
If God and Jesus and the holy spirit are one, and I believe they are and they dwell in the temple of the kingdom of God which is in us, how would you not be a god. Is a son of God, a god?
Oh, so you ARE saying what I thought you were saying!
The word “god” means “a mighty one”. So if you were hanging out with a bunch of little kids, you would be “a mighty one” compared with them. Jesus is “a mighty one” compared with angels. Angels are “mighty ones” compared with us. But there is only one “Almighty One”. He is YHVH. He is the Father and God of us all, including Jesus. God Almighty does call his human judges “gods” in the Bible. But being “a god” in no way puts us or Jesus on the same standing as “THE God, YHVH”.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 12 2010,21:33)
Jesus said we could do all things and any thing through the anointing power of God within IF WE BELIEVE!!
Yes Tim. We can do anything at all THROUGH the only TRUE God's power. Just like Jesus did many things BY MEANS OF YHVH's power. YHVH is the only one with any power. Any “power” another has is merely the power his God has allowed him to use for the time being. We walk, talk and think ONLY through the power of the spirit that God has given us on loan for the duration of our lifetime. When we die, that spirit goes back to our God who loaned it to us.Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 12 2010,21:33)
Jesus prayed that we would recognize that we were ONE with them. Could we be in God and God be in us as our life force and we not be a god?
Jesus' hope was for us to be one with him and his God “in purpose”. Not in being. Jesus is a separate being from his God, but follows the will of his God and is therefore “one in purpose” with his God. He hopes we will join in that purpose and also become “one” with them.In Acts, when the disciples healed people, some of those people wanted to make those disciples gods and worship them. The disciples made it clear that they were not gods, but only men. (Acts 14:8-18)
peace and love,
mike
Mike: Very helpful post. A couple of questions. You said
[/quote] YHVH is the God of gods!Do you not think that we are the gods he is referring to? Didn't Jesus say….all power in heaven and in earth are given me. You go, in that power or in my name or in my stead or instead of me and do all the same power works I did through God. Is that not the commission we have from God? If God has not equipped us for the continuation of the service of Christ then how will the world ever return their minds back to
God? Would God equip Jesus and not equip everyone?God is not giving and taking or pulling power strings, yes or know, maybe, maybe not with his Christ annointing. We have the mind of Christ/the annointing within us, which is also the Kingdom of God, Jesus, the spirit of God and all the power of the universe. God is our life/breath. Our animation of life is from Gods spirit in us. We became living souls. It has always been from the beginning.
Jesus did not come to give the spirit as such, he gave us the truth as spirit words from God that it is in us to the degree that we ascend in truth. Eph5:26 We are spiritually washing our minds from dark, powerless, religious lies and decepions with the water of the word of God. (Spirit Baptism)If we take out of our minds or replace all the error/sin, dark, powerless untruth out of our minds the same spirit that raised Christ Jesus from the dead worketh within each of us. When we can see him (understand clearly) we will be like him, for as he is, so are we in this world. Now we still see/understand through the glass darkly. But purge away all the dirt,evil,sin thinking and we will see face to face.
Its all here now. In each person. The annointing of God through Christ Jesus. The firsborn of many/us! Wide is the gate of destruction, degradation, denouncing, darkness,sin thinking, et.al., narrow is the gate/acceptance that leads to eternal life, pure, clean, healed, sinless, perfection by faith.
We don't have to ask for it, we have to believe in it. The gospel is for life here on earth, in this lifetime not someday in the future. This is the day of the lord, the light has come to expose the darkness. We can see through the light, Jesus is here now. Jesus is in your heart/mind. He returns to each individual that accepts him and his truth.
Why do people want to turn back to an old way of sin and death. Why insist on beating ourselves with laws and rules and unworthyness when Jesus gave it all and sealed it with his blood. Stop working for purity. It is the sabbath day of the Lord. Rest, take his yoke upon you. His burden is light. This is the day that the Lord has made.
I thought Jesus gave us eternal life. If we have eternal life then what is on loan to us that goes back to God?
If we have eternal life we never die! If you mean by the word die that we cease to exist. Hear the spirit! Where we put our attention or what we “pay” attention to, predominately is our god. Pay attention to YHVH,the God of Jesus and live forever.
God bless you, TK
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 15 2010,20:39) Hi Tim. The God of the Old Testament IS the same as Jesus. Jesus speaks for His Father. His Father is there in the Old Testament but what you need to understand here, is that God is love, and love shows itself in many ways.
I knew someone who had no love and didn't care about anyone other than himself. The only anger he showed was for selfish reasons, not cause he cared. In contrast I know people who do love and although they love they – out of love – will also correct people out of concern for them.
God disciplines those who He loves. It's in scripture.
Jude say's to save some as if saving them from a fire.
Well, it is everlasting life or everlasting death. So, it matters. If we obey God and love our neighbor as ourself. And there is joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents.
So many times I have been given through prayer words in the Old Testament. Jesus read and quoted out of the Old Testament.
I would be lost without the loving guidance of the Father.
But even so, there was a lot in what you wrote which was good. You have the Son. So you just need the Father now. I have felt as you did once over the Old Testament. But I see it different now.
Have you read the Old Testament, or only parts of it ?
shimmer: Love does not kill, steal and destroy, cities, lands, men, women, and children. (sometimes livestock) The love revealed in the new testament by Jesus is adversely different than some of the “gods” revealed in the old testament.For someone who believes in societal morality I would not think you would want your children reading the old testament any more than I want my grandchildren reading the old testament of the Bible. There has been more wars throughout the years, world wide because of the old testament of the Bible than maybe any other cause. A religious, Bible toten man that believes the old testament is a very dangerous man.
You can nearly justify any heinous crime from the old testament. They were an example of sin and death unless one was able to explain the spiritual application of the prophets so as to hear and see through understanding what they were saying. If you like wars and killing, multiple wives, sex with daughters, drunkenness, you name it,its there.
God “disciplines” (teaches and instructs) those He loves/everyone! That word does not include beating or making one sick.
The fire of the Holy Spirit is for burning away the bad, evil, sin, darkness, chaff from the wheat, good, truth, light.
Saving one from the fires of destruction would be to instruct them in their own perfection from God through Jesus by faith. If they accept and believe then they are saved from the fire.There is only everlasting life/God. God/life/good are the truth and they move forward in life and create more life.
Death is a lie accepted by man originally and passed down through generations as sin which has nearly destroyed mankind. It will if we don't repent (turn things around) and go the way of light/life!
I have read most of the old testament. I have studied the prophets for years. God bless you, TKQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,12:36) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 13 2010,01:17) Ed: You just said it again, Rom.8:4…That the righteousness of the law MIGHT BE FULFILLED in us who walk, not after the flesh(old test.) but after the Spirit (Gods words of new test.) The law is fulfilled in those who walk in the Spirt of the new testament. The words of Jesus from God!! TK
Hi Tim,If you also believe as I do that “THE LAW” IS FULFILLED in our righteous walk with YHVH,
then why do you keep pitting yourself against “The Law”(called the 10 Commandments)?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Bump for Tim.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2010,12:48) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 14 2010,06:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2010,12:43) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,04:05) (there is a conotation of more than one person in the name Elohim)
Hi Ted,Not even close. I have become quite knowledgeable about this subject through the process of debating it with Kangaroo Jack.
The word “elohim” can either mean “more than one god” or “a grandiose god”. It can never mean “more than one person in a Godhead”.
This “plural of majesty” as it is commonly called, is used many times in scripture for other words than “god” also. For example, King Nebuchadnezzar was called the “Kings of kings”. That first plural “Kings” did not mean Nebuchadnezzar consisted of more than one person. It emphasized that he was the “grandiose King above other kings”. That's just one example.
peace and love,
mike
Greetings Mike….perhaps the person was the wrong choice of words ….I would think that the conotation in the term elohim indicates more than one ….perhaps even family…
The “connotation”? Why………..because it is a plural word?Spell it out for me Ted.
peace and love,
mike
Mike,
You are correct. Elohim never means more than one when speaking of Yahuweh. Yahuweh is Elohim means that Yahuweh is above all and especially all the man-made elohim which i used here in the plural.Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 14 2010,20:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 14 2010,04:26) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,11:02) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 14 2010,02:51) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 13 2010,23:29) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 13 2010,23:04) karmarie: Neither offering was bad or wrong or evil, it was just that the lord preferred the meat offering over the vegetable offering (?)
IMO TK
Hi Tim,You certainly do NOT know God's word very well; do you?
The ground was ‘cursed’ because of Adams sin. (Gen.3:17)
Cain brought a curse offering to YHVH, but Abel's was pure!
That's why Cains offering was unacceptable to YHVH!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed: You say the Bible says… cursed is the ground because of Adams sin.The Bible says, ….the Lord said to Adam ….cursed is the ground for thy sake….! The word sin is not in the Garden unles you make it up.
How well do you know the Bible?
Hi Tim,YHVH gave (The Law) the command not to
eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Sin is the ‘transgression of the law’. (1John 3:4)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdAmen! Thats pretty clear. Also John said that whoever says he has no sin is a liar! 1 John 1:8
WJ
WJ: When John said….whoever says he has no sin is a liar….was that in reference to a person before he ask God for forgiveness or after he ask God for forgiveness?I was under the impression that if one ask God/Jesus to forgive his sins, they would be forgiven! If he is forgiven of his sin then how could it be that he is a liar if he says he has no sin?
That kinda misquote could really mess up a young new believer that has just received cleansing from Jesus for sin. To tell him he is a liar if he says his sins are forgiven and blotted out. The real truth is after receiving for forgiveness for sin if one then said he actually still had sin, that would be the liar!
Quoting 1John 1:8 without quoting V7 & V9 seems almost to be a purposeful attempt at damnation to the readers. I must be wrong. TK
Scripture indicates there were many who were called righteous. Abraham is one of them. But there was a time before Abraham became a Hebrew that he lived in Ur which is in Babylon. Abraham;s father was a pagan worshipper in Ur.YHWH called Abram out of Babel and Abraham “followed YHWH” which is why he was called righteous. Everyone who truely leaves the fleshy lusts of the world in repentence and follows YAH's Torah are considered righteous if they actually walk the walk. Abraham's “heart was circumcised” he was part of the “renewed covenant, before Yisra'el was even born!
The name Abraham appears at least 70 times in the Brit HaChodesh (renewed covenant/new teatament).
He was called the father of “OUR BELIEF.”And if this word is true, then you can learn much about the way of our belief the way it should be by studying the TeNaK and the stories about Abraham.
I believe it.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,09:08) Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 14 2010,22:03) Hi Tim. Thanks. You said,
Quote karmarie: I have no label other than one I will make up: I am a follower of Jesus! I have read some of the Gnostic gospels yet in truth I don't even know what the word Gnostic means. So, no I am not a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that God of the Old Testament was a 'lesser god', and that Jesus came to reveal the true Father. Do you believe God of the Old Testament is the Father of Jesus ?
Quote People say Adam sinned but the Bible says they had a choice, kinda like today, I set before you good and evil, now, you choose, but choose good Thats true. Once the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth then we know from scripture what is right or wrong. So we choose if we obey God or if we disobey.
Quote If we all belive in peace and love, that is what will be. That is true.
Quote Or he got puffed up and thought he was above others due to his great works which did the same thing as condemnation. I believe there are people who try to do no wrong yet they're 'hearts are far from Him'. I believe making mistakes is part of the learning process. But for reformation, obedience to God learnt through error.
Quote Finally my answer, stay away from self condemnation and condemnation of others. If you judge something as wrong to do, don't transgress it! If you do, accept forgiveness and try again. Don't hold on to unforgiveness. Self condemnation blocks the light of God from our minds. Sin thinking cuts off the truth/light. Jesus said my words cleanse you and you are perfect. Recieve that judgment and you are free. Let the master of all, the King of kings and lord of lords be your judge. That is the word of God/Jesus judging us as perfect, whole, complete, sinless, clean, worthy, righteous etc.! Then we can show the world true LOVE! IMO TK But Tim, If I say I am a Christian, show people I am, then go on and sin ?
Ok, say I had a friend and I told her I was a believer, and she admired what I had and began to wonder and pray, or maybe God started working in her, and then if I sinned and coveted her husband, and then acted on that sin, then her faith in what she was learning is shattered, just as her marriage would be.
So, I see what you are saying, but I also hear what Jesus was saying. Jesus lived the law perfectly. Not only that, but it became an issue involving not just actions or lack of, but also something of the thoughts and heart, something deeper. So if I was to look lustfully at another, then I have committed sin already. If I was to think of murdering someone, then I have already committed murder.
And every sin is punishable if not truly repented of, and repentance means changing the behavior. 'Sin no more'
Jesus said repeatedly not to sin. Not even to think of sin (You are right here but in the wrong way I think)
We are supposed to be 'perfect'. Perfect not just in what we do or don't do, but perfect in our thoughts and our hearts.
I would put here verses to show this, but there are too many – see. Sin or the thought of sin separates us from God.
So Tim, is this how you see it or what ?
karmarie: Bless you. I love your questions and will do my best to answer them from my heart. I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me.The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.
It appears to me that you believe that the plan of God through Jesus is somehow to make us walk or talk or do the things of life one way or another. Like we have a rule book and we are being judged as to which direction we choose. IMO that is not the truth. The freedom Jesus came to teach and show to all was intended to make humanity free from that very belief. IMO we are not being judged by what we do or don't do in this life.
We are in a war in our minds for the truth of God or non-truth of Man. Errant thinking has separated man from union with God for generations. IMO, errant thinking is sin in the mind of man. This is the cause separation or disunity man has felt with God for generations. Sin is not something you do or don't do!
My definition of sin is: Condemnation in your heart against others or your self for something done that separates him or the other person from God.
In Christ there is no condemnation. In the same way Christ does not condemn you, do not condemn others or yourself!
Choosing good or evil in the mind and making a condemning judgment that something done or not done is good or bad in the eyes of God is not our business. This is sin and causes a sin consciousness. Believing that you are doing wrong depresses the spirit. It covers the light within. It renders the powerful mind of Christ week or even powerless.
Forgiveness and righteousness, worthyness, cleanliness and perfection in the mind energize it, brighten it, excite it and generate great power to bring forth what ever one dreams on into their life to be experienced. We were made to dream until the dream comes true! God, all the power of the universe can flow through a mans mind that is clear, uncluttered, unblocked, clean with no sin thinking. This is the perfection that I believe Jesus gave his life for us to find!
If you can hear no evil, see no evil, and think no evil there will be no evil, death, disease, or sickness experienced in your life on earth. We were made to live in heaven on earth!
Don't try to be good enough to get to God or please God! Jesus did it for you and gave it to you for free as a gift.Faith is what pleases God. Faith in what he has had done for us at great price. Now, every day is the sabbath rest with Jesus in perfection and freedom. This is what he died for. God bless you.
PS: Jesus did not follow the law. He did not follow the sabbath laws. His disciples picked and ate corn on the sabbath. Jesus did not exercise lawful washings or rituals. Jesus did not pay the temple tax. Jesus healed on he sabbath.
Jesus set the woman free from adultry where the law said she must be stoned. Ei
ther adultry wasn't a sin or Jesus broke the law by setting her free!Lastly, if you are in God and God is in you (peace,love,joy etc.) then the thought of murder or killing is not there.
The word sin was used twice in Matthew, Mark and Luke! I would not say that Jesus repeatedly said not to sin.
Perfect is not what we can do. Perfect is what God has done for us through Jesus. If you believe, you are perfect. If you don't believe, you have condemned youself. Bless you, TK
Tim i understand what you are saying, BUT what you are saying is so inconsistant with Scripture that you can't even tell that the SAME Yahuweh Elohim from the OT is the same Yahuweh Elohim in the NT.That is how wrong you are, and it should be a warning to you that you are most likely following ANOTHER SPIRIT, or you are just plain dumb, The latter bing the safer, because YHWH Elohim is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and His Son testifies to it!
Heb 13:5 Let your way of life be without the love of money, and be satisfied with what you have. For He Himself has said, “I shall never leave you nor forsake you,”
Heb 13:6 so that we boldly say, “יהוה (Yahuweh)is my helper, I shall not fear what man shall do to me.”
Heb 13:7 Remember those leading you, who spoke the Word of Elohim to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their belief.
Heb 13:8 יהושע Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Heb 13:9 Do not be borne about by various and strange teachings.1 For it is good for the heart to be established by favour, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.Folks like you Tim who do not believe truth, make idols to yourselves, twisting truth to fit your own expectations, and sdoing uch a thing will kill you!
Now do not make up excuses. That is what you said, and even went as far as to say that “it dosen't matter.”
Here is what you said Tim,
“”The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.””
unquote Tim.You went as far as saying that “it” could not be the same god.
Maybe you should just save yourself some pain and find a volcano and jump in.
Hi Tim.
I should explain, I was changing between usernames, shimmer/karmarie, I wanted edit back, so it was me both times, sorry, I forgot to tell you.
Tim, trust me, God YHVH is the Father of Jesus. YHVH is love. I know that. I have felt it. I have felt YHVH's loving guidance and power. Whenever I follow Him and don't sin, then everything is good. When I do sin or when I decide to do thing's my own way, without seeking YHVH's help, then I am lost.
I have read the Old Testement in bits, but not beginning to end. I think I need to do that, so I have more understanding of it. But you need the Father Tim. You have the Son.
There's another discussion going on here, I was wondering what you think. Do you believe Jesus was risen in the flesh or spirit only ? Also, when do you think Jesus returned/will return and how ?
Just curious, thanks.
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 16 2010,03:47) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,09:08) Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 14 2010,22:03) Hi Tim. Thanks. You said,
Quote karmarie: I have no label other than one I will make up: I am a follower of Jesus! I have read some of the Gnostic gospels yet in truth I don't even know what the word Gnostic means. So, no I am not a Gnostic. Gnostics believe that God of the Old Testament was a 'lesser god', and that Jesus came to reveal the true Father. Do you believe God of the Old Testament is the Father of Jesus ?
Quote People say Adam sinned but the Bible says they had a choice, kinda like today, I set before you good and evil, now, you choose, but choose good Thats true. Once the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth then we know from scripture what is right or wrong. So we choose if we obey God or if we disobey.
Quote If we all belive in peace and love, that is what will be. That is true.
Quote Or he got puffed up and thought he was above others due to his great works which did the same thing as condemnation. I believe there are people who try to do no wrong yet they're 'hearts are far from Him'. I believe making mistakes is part of the learning process. But for reformation, obedience to God learnt through error.
Quote Finally my answer, stay away from self condemnation and condemnation of others. If you judge something as wrong to do, don't transgress it! If you do, accept forgiveness and try again. Don't hold on to unforgiveness. Self condemnation blocks the light of God from our minds. Sin thinking cuts off the truth/light. Jesus said my words cleanse you and you are perfect. Recieve that judgment and you are free. Let the master of all, the King of kings and lord of lords be your judge. That is the word of God/Jesus judging us as perfect, whole, complete, sinless, clean, worthy, righteous etc.! Then we can show the world true LOVE! IMO TK But Tim, If I say I am a Christian, show people I am, then go on and sin ?
Ok, say I had a friend and I told her I was a believer, and she admired what I had and began to wonder and pray, or maybe God started working in her, and then if I sinned and coveted her husband, and then acted on that sin, then her faith in what she was learning is shattered, just as her marriage would be.
So, I see what you are saying, but I also hear what Jesus was saying. Jesus lived the law perfectly. Not only that, but it became an issue involving not just actions or lack of, but also something of the thoughts and heart, something deeper. So if I was to look lustfully at another, then I have committed sin already. If I was to think of murdering someone, then I have already committed murder.
And every sin is punishable if not truly repented of, and repentance means changing the behavior. 'Sin no more'
Jesus said repeatedly not to sin. Not even to think of sin (You are right here but in the wrong way I think)
We are supposed to be 'perfect'. Perfect not just in what we do or don't do, but perfect in our thoughts and our hearts.
I would put here verses to show this, but there are too many – see. Sin or the thought of sin separates us from God.
So Tim, is this how you see it or what ?
karmarie: Bless you. I love your questions and will do my best to answer them from my heart. I don't know how you all make those quote boxes, that would help me.The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.
It appears to me that you believe that the plan of God through Jesus is somehow to make us walk or talk or do the things of life one way or another. Like we have a rule book and we are being judged as to which direction we choose. IMO that is not the truth. The freedom Jesus came to teach and show to all was intended to make humanity free from that very belief. IMO we are not being judged by what we do or don't do in this life.
We are in a war in our minds for the truth of God or non-truth of Man. Errant thinking has separated man from union with God for generations. IMO, errant thinking is sin in the mind of man. This is the cause separation or disunity man has felt with God for generations. Sin is not something you do or don't do!
My definition of sin is: Condemnation in your heart against others or your self for something done that separates him or the other person from God.
In Christ there is no condemnation. In the same way Christ does not condemn you, do not condemn others or yourself!
Choosing good or evil in the mind and making a condemning judgment that something done or not done is good or bad in the eyes of God is not our business. This is sin and causes a sin consciousness. Believing that you are doing wrong depresses the spirit. It covers the light within. It renders the powerful mind of Christ week or even powerless.
Forgiveness and righteousness, worthyness, cleanliness and perfection in the mind energize it, brighten it, excite it and generate great power to bring forth what ever one dreams on into their life to be experienced. We were made to dream until the dream comes true! God, all the power of the universe can flow through a mans mind that is clear, uncluttered, unblocked, clean with no sin thinking. This is the perfection that I believe Jesus gave his life for us to find!
If you can hear no evil, see no evil, and think no evil there will be no evil, death, disease, or sickness experienced in your life on earth. We were made to live in heaven on earth!
Don't try to be good enough to get to God or please God! Jesus did it for you and gave it to you for free as a gift.Faith is what pleases God. Faith in what he has had done for us at great price. Now, every day is the sabbath rest with Jesus in perfection and freedom. This is what he died for. God bless you.
PS: Jesus did not follow the law. He did not follow the sabbath laws. His disciples picked and at
e corn on the sabbath. Jesus did not exercise lawful washings or rituals. Jesus did not pay the temple tax. Jesus healed on he sabbath.
Jesus set the woman free from adultry where the law said she must be stoned. Either adultry wasn't a sin or Jesus broke the law by setting her free!Lastly, if you are in God and God is in you (peace,love,joy etc.) then the thought of murder or killing is not there.
The word sin was used twice in Matthew, Mark and Luke! I would not say that Jesus repeatedly said not to sin.
Perfect is not what we can do. Perfect is what God has done for us through Jesus. If you believe, you are perfect. If you don't believe, you have condemned youself. Bless you, TK
Tim i understand what you are saying, BUT what you are saying is so inconsistant with Scripture that you can't even tell that the SAME Yahuweh Elohim from the OT is the same Yahuweh Elohim in the NT.That is how wrong you are, and it should be a warning to you that you are most likely following ANOTHER SPIRIT, or you are just plain dumb, The latter bing the safer, because YHWH Elohim is the same yesterday, today, and forever, and His Son testifies to it!
Heb 13:5 Let your way of life be without the love of money, and be satisfied with what you have. For He Himself has said, “I shall never leave you nor forsake you,”
Heb 13:6 so that we boldly say, “יהוה (Yahuweh)is my helper, I shall not fear what man shall do to me.”
Heb 13:7 Remember those leading you, who spoke the Word of Elohim to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their belief.
Heb 13:8 יהושע Messiah is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Heb 13:9 Do not be borne about by various and strange teachings.1 For it is good for the heart to be established by favour, not with foods which have not profited those who have been occupied with them.Folks like you Tim who do not believe truth, make idols to yourselves, twisting truth to fit your own expectations, and sdoing uch a thing will kill you!
Now do not make up excuses. That is what you said, and even went as far as to say that “it dosen't matter.”
Here is what you said Tim,
“”The ot God: If people were honest there are many variations of “God” in the old testament. “Lord God”, “the Lord” and I do not believe they all represent the “Father God” of the nt. If the nt Father God as represented by Jesus is “love” then in many cases it could not be the same God. To be perfectly blunt, I don't care about the ot one way or the other. It is a history book to me. The old testament is past, the new testament is in effect.””
unquote Tim.You went as far as saying that “it” could not be the same god.
Maybe you should just save yourself some pain and find a volcano and jump in.
Laural: If you could only know how afraid I am right now! I have been persecuted for the righteousness that I present to all. You may fear, as in be afraid of your God but I am not afraid of mine. I understand your fear by what is seen in the old testament but in the true,current covenant of God, now fear is respect not being afraid.Following Jesus and his spirit words from God is the new covenant. That may be to you following another spirit but for me it is Jesus words painting a picture of God in the hearts of those who accept and believe.
Jesus came to give us eternal life. If I believe Jesus gives us eternal life then how shall I be afraid of death? Will the prince of peace kill me for believing his words.Or will my loving Father destroy me or hurt me for exercising faith in his words. If I don't have Jesus words right then please correct me. If I do then why threaten me with pain and suffering from your God.
Whatever your God is to you or whatever you believe your God to be is what your God is. Thats why you are afraid of him. You must believe that your God is destructive of life or hurt or there would be no fear.
God is life. How are you afraid of life? God is good. No goodness comes from fear!
Jesus is the truth about the God I serve. I have no fear as in being afraid of my God. Jesus says his God is a Father of love.
A father of love does not kill and destroy life. My God is a life giver. A mender of broken hearts. Peaceful, loving and kind. How about yours?I don't condemn you for your choice of Gods. You are free to choose to believe anything you wish to believe. Why do you condemn me for my stand with Jesus? Its because you apparantly can't see or hear Jesus. Jesus leeds me to the Father of light. That's where I'm going. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 16 2010,21:44) Laural: If you could only know how afraid I am right now! I have been persecuted for the righteousness that I present to all.
TK
Hi Tim,Just exactly how is telling people to disregard “God's Law”, presenting righteousness?
Quote You may fear, as in be afraid of your God but I am not afraid of mine. Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 11 2010,21:43) I pay no attention to YHVH! There is forgiveness for those who REPENT!
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 10 2010,00:43) I'm sure your idea of immorality and mine and society itself are three different things. Between two consenting adults there is no law but their own. IMO! Quote Yet you would say that Jesus never sinned and yet he set the lady, caught in adultry, free and would not condemn her sin if in fact it was a sin. Matt.5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments,
and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: But
WHOSOEVER SHALL DO AND TEACH THEM, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.2Tm.3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Matt.7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,21:47) I thought Jesus gave us eternal life. If we have eternal life then what is on loan to us that goes back to God?
Jesus died to “erase” our sins in his God's eyes, thereby allowing Jehovah to still be righteous in ever calling any of us “righteous”.None of us on this earth have received that “eternal life” yet, and some most likely never will. What we have received is the promise that we will be judged, and that if we are found to have lived according to God's commandments and the things He taught us through His Son, we will be judged favorably. It is then we will receive the “eternal life” Jesus promised.
Those who are not judged favorably will instead receive eternal destruction.
Tim, the MEEK shall inherit the earth. The ones who make themselves the LOWEST on earth will be the HIGHEST in the next age.
I don't think that considering yourself a “god”, or on the same par as Jesus is what Micah meant here:
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.On a side note, I see you tried the quote thing and it didn't work out. Make sure the bracketed word quote WITHOUT the forward slash is before the words you want in the quote box. And the bracketed word quote WITH the forward slash follows immediately AFTER the words you want in the quote box.
Everything between the [quate] and the [/quate] will be in the box. (Change my “a” to “o” in the word “quote”, and you have it. Because if I actually spell out quote with the brackets, it would have just put the words “and the” in a quote box, so I had to misspell “quote” so you could see it. Notice only the second “quote” has the forward slash)
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 17 2010,13:35) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 15 2010,21:47) I thought Jesus gave us eternal life. If we have eternal life then what is on loan to us that goes back to God?
Jesus died to “erase” our sins in his God's eyes, thereby allowing Jehovah to still be righteous in ever calling any of us “righteous”.None of us on this earth have received that “eternal life” yet, and some most likely never will. What we have received is the promise that we will be judged, and that if we are found to have lived according to God's commandments and the things He taught us through His Son, we will be judged favorably. It is then we will receive the “eternal life” Jesus promised.
Those who are not judged favorably will instead receive eternal destruction.
Tim, the MEEK shall inherit the earth. The ones who make themselves the LOWEST on earth will be the HIGHEST in the next age.
I don't think that considering yourself a “god”, or on the same par as Jesus is what Micah meant here:
8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God.On a side note, I see you tried the quote thing and it didn't work out. Make sure the bracketed word quote WITHOUT the forward slash is before the words you want in the quote box. And the bracketed word quote WITH the forward slash follows immediately AFTER the words you want in the quote box.
Everything between the [quate] and the [/quate] will be in the box. (Change my “a” to “o” in the word “quote”, and you have it. Because if I actually spell out quote with the brackets, it would have just put the words “and the” in a quote box, so I had to misspell “quote” so you could see it. Notice only the second “quote” has the forward slash)
peace and love,
mike
Mike : Earlier I wrote a long answer to your post but when I hit post my computer locked up and I lost it. I'll try again.If we believe that we came from God in the beginning and are sons of God then we are eternal life of God. God could only put in us what he is. Good, perfect, eternal life. We chose evil to be a part of us so we have contaminated life with death and continued to live in good and evil. Death has been winning the dual. We have come from living an old recorded age of living a thousand years to an average age of about 85 years old.
Jesus came to awaken us to the eternal life we have always been, because we are from God. We have been diluted in mind to the truth. Religious darkness or mens ideas about God have slowly destroyed our lives and covered our God light of who we have always been.
Jesus came to give us back the truth, of who we are, through the light of God that dwells within, to the eternal life we have always been. We have always been ONE with God but we gave half of our life to lies and deceptions. We were God/Man then we accepted evil so we were darkened to the truth and had nobody to show us the way.
Jesus came with Gods power to prove he was of God and he told us the truth that we can do the same and greater works by faith in God. He said we must wash away the old religious beliefs and totally consume the spirit truth of Jesus from God.
We must eat the true food of Jesus flesh and drink the true spiritual drink of his spirit/blood. Life is in that blood. If you do you have life within you.
The judgment of God is given into the hands of Jesus, the word of God. Jesus has pronounced us clean, righteous, whole, worthy, ordained men of God. Whosoever believes the true words of Jesus has been judged by those words and those that live in Christ, continuing to believe what he said will be save from death, anti-life, sickness, dissease or anything that takes away from abundant life.
Please remember that I didn't consider myself a god or on par with Jesus nor had I ever dreamed of such a thing. Jesus put all sons of God on that level. Its no more me than you or anyone else who believes what Jesus says about us.
He is the first born of many! Who are the many Jesus's he is referring to? Its, whosoever will believe act on that belief. Telling everone the good news that they are made perfect, if they believe Jesus. They are healed, saved,made whole and complete, and ONE with God, BY FAITH! IMO, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,02:21)
Mike : Earlier I wrote a long answer to your post but when I hit post my computer locked up and I lost it. I'll try again.
I've had that happen to me before. In fact, earlier today Windows just decided it would shut down my computer to update files! Thankfully, I had only almost completed a 10 minute response to mikeangel instead of the response I worked 5 hours on for Is 1:18 a few months ago. Man, I was steamed about that one! But Tim, I would prefer “short and to the point” anyway. I hate reading the real long posts.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,02:21)
If we believe that we came from God in the beginning and are sons of God then we are eternal life of God. God could only put in us what he is. Good, perfect, eternal life.
What scripture did you read that in? We are mortal. It is God's Spirit IN us that gives us life. If He took His Spirit back in one day, then we would only live one day. If He chooses to let it stay in us eternally, then we would live eternally.Even Jesus wasn't immortal from his beginning, Tim. He died. NOW he's immortal, but he wasn't always. All beings live only as long as God allows His Spirit to remain in them.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 18 2010,02:21)
Please remember that I didn't consider myself a god or on par with Jesus nor had I ever dreamed of such a thing. Jesus put all sons of God on that level.
Jesus said that only those who obey his God would be given the opportunity to be like Jesus is now. We aren't “born into” this eternal life, Tim. In fact, only a few will receive it.Tim, are you a Mormon? I'm just curious, because I heard they believe God was once a man like us, and we will all eventually be Gods.
peace and love,
mike
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