- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi Laurel,
You made some good, logical points there.
I couldn't find anything specific about the Israelites knowing YHVH Elohim during their days as slaves in Egypt. But these might suffice:
Exodus 1 NIV
17 The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live.20 So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous. 21 And because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own.
Exodus 2 NIV
23 During that long period, the king of Egypt died. The Israelites groaned in their slavery and cried out, and their cry for help because of their slavery went up to God. 24 God heard their groaning and he remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac and with Jacob. 25 So God looked on the Israelites and was concerned about them.Now like I said, these don't SPECIFICALLY say they knew the God that was looking out for them was YHVH. But it also doesn't list anything that would make me think they had become Thor worshippers either. (It was obviously not Thor who granted the midwives to have children of their own, right?) I would just naturally assume that the knowledge of their only God would have been passed down generation to generation, just like knowledge of Him and His Son are passed down to us now.
Can you think of anything solid that might shed some light on whether Adam, Abraham and the others before Moses knew God's personal name?
I suppose it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but I pretend to be a scriptural sleuth, and I want to know all that the information will support.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…Theodore: Your post is absolute in truth. God is absolute. What is, God is that. I'am that I'am pretty much sums it up. Bless you, TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 06 2010,00:33) What is, God is that
Hi Tim,You “are”, right? So God is YOU? Knowing this, should I now worship you or what?
mike
Mikeboll64: A question for Mike. In John 5:18 the Jews sought to kill Jesus because he had not only broken the law (sabbath) but also had said that God was his Father, making himself equal with God….! So Mike, is God your Father? TK
Mike: Some further search at John 10:33….the Jews said, for a good work we stone thee not: but for blasphemy: and because that thou being a man, makest thyself God….V34…Jesus answered is it not written in your (Jewish law not God's law), I said, Ye are Gods?…….V36….say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified….thou blasphemest because I said I am the Son of God?
Mike are you sanctified unto God through Christ? (yes) Are you a son of God? (yes) then do you make yourself out to be God or are you just repeating what Jesus the master teacher said about you. Jesus can't lie and if he says it, it must be true. I'm only agreeing with Jesus not making something up nor denying the truth written.Why would you make an effort to deny what God has given us. I know we didn't do anything to deserve it or warrant it but if someone offers you a paid for, free and clear, brand new Corvette with your name on the title, just believe and receive are you going to turn it down? Not me, Bless You, TK
Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 05 2010,23:50) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…
No Theodore. You cut His answer short. SO i will repost His answer in it's entirity and translirerate/translate where need be.
Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am (היה Meaning “there exists”) that which (אשׁר) I am (היה meaning “there exists”).” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.ʼ ”
Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה (YHWH/Yahuweh “HIS NAME”) Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼthe Hebrew word meaning “there exists” was translated as I AM, and the same word is used to tell of many things which exist, some of which are pagan men. So I AM is a BAD TRANSLATION, and causes MUCH confusion. He said His Name is Yahuweh and Yahuweh is ELohim.
Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 05 2010,23:50) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…
No. His Name is Yahuweh, the rest are titles and discriptions.@Mike B
The reason i know that Adam knew our Creator's name is because at first Adam was without sin and Yahuweh Elohim walked and talked with him. Also that “all things are from the beginning.” and here is a verse for you.Gen 2:15 And יהוה Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Ěḏen to work it and to guard it.
Gen 2:16 And יהוה Elohim commanded the man, saying, “Eat of every tree of the garden,
Gen 2:17 but do not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for in the day that you eat of it you shall certainly die.”
Gen 2:18 And יהוה Elohim said, “It is not good for the man to be alone, I am going to make a helper for him, as his counterpart.”
Gen 2:19 And from the ground יהוה Elohim formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.Think about it. Why would Yahuweh ELohim tell Adam to give names to all the creatures on the earth and not tell Adam His own name? Names are very important, and always have been.
And you can see by many of the notes on this topic that man has not know the Name of our Father for a very long time.
The new testament, which is in effect now, as the new covenant of God, sealed with the blood of Jesus the master teacher and son of God, uses the greek word, “theos” throughout, which is “Supreme Diety” in each reference made to God. The God of Jesus the Christ. I tend to believe what Jesus says. TK
Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 07 2010,00:07) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 05 2010,23:50) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…
No Theodore. You cut His answer short. SO i will repost His answer in it's entirity and translirerate/translate where need be.
Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am (היה Meaning “there exists”) that which (אשׁר) I am (היה meaning “there exists”).” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.ʼ ”
Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה (YHWH/Yahuweh “HIS NAME”) Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼthe Hebrew word meaning “there exists” was translated as I AM, and the same word is used to tell of many things which exist, some of which are pagan men. So I AM is a BAD TRANSLATION, and causes MUCH confusion. He said His Name is Yahuweh and Yahuweh is ELohim.
Greetings Laurel…..You are correct,in as much as I did cut the passage short…Not withstanding the Hebrew translation the substance of the conversation did not change..When Moses asked the eternal by” what should I call you”? the answer was Iam that Iam….and the explanation was Iam the God of your fathers Abraham,Issac and Jacob…eg. The Yahewh,Elohim(there is a conotation of more than one person in the name Elohim)Isaac and Jacob are Israel….you got me thinking….thanksQuote (Laurel @ Dec. 07 2010,00:07) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 05 2010,23:50) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…
No Theodore. You cut His answer short. SO i will repost His answer in it's entirity and translirerate/translate where need be.
Exo 3:14 And Elohim said to Mosheh, “I am (היה Meaning “there exists”) that which (אשׁר) I am (היה meaning “there exists”).” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘I am has sent me to you.ʼ ”
Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה (YHWH/Yahuweh “HIS NAME”) Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼthe Hebrew word meaning “there exists” was translated as I AM, and the same word is used to tell of many things which exist, some of which are pagan men. So
I AM is a BAD TRANSLATION,
and causes MUCH confusion. He said His Name is Yahuweh and Yahuweh is ELohim.
Shalom Laurel,יד(14). וַיֹּאמֶר אֱ־לֹהִים אֶל מֹשֶׁה אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה וַיֹּאמֶר כֹּה תֹאמַר לִבְנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל אֶהְיֶה שְׁלָחַנִי אֲלֵיכֶם:
Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, “Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be),” and
He said, “So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'”YHVH means: Causes to become
When Moses Asked Him His name, he said…
[אהיה אשר אהיה] ěhyäh ăsher ěhyäh, which translates into English as…
“I will be what I will be” or “I will be that I will be“YHVH=63 and “will be”=63
Theomatics(numbers relating to God) clearly illustrate who God is.
The Divine=63 Deity=63 of The Bible=63 is YHVH=63.
[יהוה] translates directly into English as YHVH.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Laurel @ Dec. 07 2010,00:35) Quote (theodorej @ Dec. 05 2010,23:50) Quote (Laurel @ Dec. 05 2010,00:27) Exo 3:15 And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the children of Yisraʼĕl, ‘יהוה Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Aḇraham, the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ, has sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all generations.ʼ I am certain that even Adam knew His set-apart name.
Good post.
Greetings Laurel….. Let us not forget that Moses asked the eternal by what name should I address you and he was told that “I AM that I AM”……That was the eternals' answer….The names for the Eternal are replete through out scripture…..The El Shaddai,EL Gebor,Mighty God,The Yahweh,and Elohim…Each one of these names give praise to the Eternal One…the loving Father…
No. His Name is Yahuweh, the rest are titles and discriptions.
Hi Laurel,The “Divine”=63 “Deity”=63 of “The Bible”=63 is “YHVH”=63; “YHVH is GOD”.
YHVH is God's Name (יהוה) translated into English; as the Hebrew lacks vowels.GOD’s most sacred Holy Name [יהוה] was given to us directly from the Hebrew language.
Correctly translating Hebrew into other languages can be difficult however. Some basic
linguistical rules need to be considered when translating Hebrew texts. These include a lack
of spacing between words, as a general rule has no written vowels and the basic direction
in which Hebrew is written (opposite: from right to left). Hebrew word spacing is a modern
advent that distinguishes one word from the next, aiding both translators and multi-linguists
alike. Unwritten “implied” vowel sounds are a concern because, correct pronunciations of
Hebrew words are at risk. This point is made because the correct pronunciation was thought
to be lost, which led only to translators’ interpretations.GOD’s Name (יהוה) transliterates directly into English as YHVH because the Hebrew alphabet
lacks vowels. Hebrew has No [W] sound, No [J] sound and the symbol ש is pronounced “Sh”.[יהוה] GOD’s Name [י] Yod [ה] Ha [ו] Vav [ה] Hey is pronounced YÄ-hä-vā & [יה] YÄ
The identity of יהוה=26 is “GOD”=26 spoken as YÄ-hä-vā: where ä sounds like
that of the word “ah” and the other ā sounds like the vowel in the word “hay”.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 06 2010,20:45) Mike are you sanctified unto God through Christ? (yes) Are you a son of God? (yes) then do you make yourself out to be God or are you just repeating what Jesus the master teacher said about you. Jesus can't lie and if he says it, it must be true. I'm only agreeing with Jesus not making something up nor denying the truth written.
Hi Tim,No, I'm not God's Anointed One. Yes, I am a son of God, but not THE Son of God who was sent down from heaven to be the Light of the world. I am now a created son of God with the hope of being adopted as a spiritual son of God and brother to Jesus.
You seem to be putting yourself on par with Jesus, my Lord and Savior. Are you?
And by the way, you posted how Jesus answered the mistaken Jews who thought Jesus was making himself equal to God, but didn't you read it? He corrected them, in effect saying, “NO, I'm NOT equal to my God”.
Also, those same Jews said to Jesus, “God is the only Father we have” once. Were they too “equal to God”?
Bottom line Tim, I am not God's only begotten Son, and neither are you. I am not God, and neither are you. I will never be God or equal to Him, and neither will you.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Laurel @ Dec. 07 2010,00:42) Think about it. Why would Yahuweh ELohim tell Adam to give names to all the creatures on the earth and not tell Adam His own name? Names are very important, and always have been.
Hi Laurel,I understand your point completely. But consider this: When Samson's father, Manoah, asked the angel of Jehovah for his name, he wouldn't tell him, although he did tell Manoah and his wife many other details involving the future birth of Samson.
This could have also been the case with Adam – who knows?
I was searching in Exodus and found this:
Exodus 4 NIV
29 Moses and Aaron brought together all the elders of the Israelites, 30 and Aaron told them everything the LORD had said to Moses. He also performed the signs before the people, 31 and they believed. And when they heard that the LORD was concerned about them and had seen their misery, they bowed down and worshiped.It doesn't tell of anyone asking about who Jehovah was, so that could mean they already knew His name, but not necessarily. And I found this:
Exodus 5 NIV
1 Afterward Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said, “This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: ‘Let my people go, so that they may hold a festival to me in the wilderness.’”
2 Pharaoh said, “Who is the LORD, that I should obey him and let Israel go? I do not know the LORD and I will not let Israel go.”3 Then they said, “The God of the Hebrews has met with us. Now let us take a three-day journey into the wilderness to offer sacrifices to the LORD our God, or he may strike us with plagues or with the sword.”
This passage leads me to believe that Pharaoh did not know the God of the Hebrews by name. But why not? They had lived in his country for years and years. King Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians knew the name of Jehovah when the Jews were exiled there, so why didn't Pharaoh know it? In fact many other nations knew the name of the God of the Hebrews after the Exodus, which was after God told Moses His name.
What do you think? Can you think of any scripture where someone of another nation knew the name of the God of Abraham before Moses came along?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (theodorej @ Dec. 07 2010,04:05) (there is a conotation of more than one person in the name Elohim)
Hi Ted,Not even close. I have become quite knowledgeable about this subject through the process of debating it with Kangaroo Jack.
The word “elohim” can either mean “more than one god” or “a grandiose god”. It can never mean “more than one person in a Godhead”.
This “plural of majesty” as it is commonly called, is used many times in scripture for other words than “god” also. For example, King Nebuchadnezzar was called the “Kings of kings”. That first plural “Kings” did not mean Nebuchadnezzar consisted of more than one person. It emphasized that he was the “grandiose King above other kings”. That's just one example.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2010,11:57) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 06 2010,20:45) Mike are you sanctified unto God through Christ? (yes) Are you a son of God? (yes) then do you make yourself out to be God or are you just repeating what Jesus the master teacher said about you. Jesus can't lie and if he says it, it must be true. I'm only agreeing with Jesus not making something up nor denying the truth written.
Hi Tim,No, I'm not God's Anointed One. Yes, I am a son of God, but not THE Son of God who was sent down from heaven to be the Light of the world. I am now a created son of God with the hope of being adopted as a spiritual son of God and brother to Jesus.
You seem to be putting yourself on par with Jesus, my Lord and Savior. Are you?
And by the way, you posted how Jesus answered the mistaken Jews who thought Jesus was making himself equal to God, but didn't you read it? He corrected them, in effect saying, “NO, I'm NOT equal to my God”.
Also, those same Jews said to Jesus, “God is the only Father we have” once. Were they too “equal to God”?
Bottom line Tim, I am not God's only begotten Son, and neither are you. I am not God, and neither are you. I will never be God or equal to Him, and neither will you.
peace and love,
mike
Mike: I think we should both be able to agree that you don't call the shots for me and I don't call the shots for you. If you are not ONE with God/Jesus as Jesus prayed all believers would be then that is your truth, not mine. John18:22&23Its important to know that whatever Jesus says we are, that is what we are in Truth. We can believe it or reject it but the truth still stands. If you believe you receive and live it.
If you will take the time to read John, chapters15 and 17, and accept what Jesus says as truth, then the things I wrote about you are truth.
You say Jesus the firstborn of many brothers is a different son of God than you. If you have any brothers or sisters are you the same as them or equal to them? Is your brother better than you? Jesus said we are not above the teacher, it is enought that we be as the teacher.
Please make note of this. I never put myself anywhere in Gods plan. As I hear the words of the Christ, spoken to whosoever believes, I consider myself a whosoever and I believe. If you read Jesus alone he will save you, heal you, cleanse you, ordain you, empower you, and make you a completed man of God. Simply by believing his words, given to whosoever will believe.
The lord God is ONE lord…Mark 12:29 Why do you separate the word of God from God? Are not your words, you?
We must have different KJV Bibles. He not only did not say in effect, no, I am not equal to God but in my Bible Jesus actually said at V33…Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? to which Jesus said at V35…If he(the writer of the law)called them gods, unto whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken….then they are gods also!!V36 and you say I blaphemest because…I said, I am the Son of God… The bottom line is all are ONE with, God/Jesus/Spirit!
Not only did Jesus say he was the Son of God but he said that the scriptures that cannot be broken also called them gods!
As a son, are you an heir to the Kingdom? When Jesus sent out workers to the cities to teach the Kingdom, heal the sick, cast out devils, etc. did he annoint them for the mission he sent them on? Yes he did and told them to tell others to go and do the same. The annointing passed with the words of Jesus from one to another.
You will receive the very judgment you make against another. “I am not and neither are you” are condemning judgments. They don't bother me at all but for your own progression of truth you might want to erase those parts.
We all are exactly what we believe we are in Christ.
Its your choice to believe or not believe the gifts of God. Bless you, TK
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 03 2010,11:10) Bump for Irene God himself tells Moses at the burning bush that His name is, “I am who I am” or “I will be what I will be”. (Exodus 3:14)
This personal name of the Almighty God is, in the Hebrew language, the letters YHVH. These four Hebrew letters are commonly referred to as the “tetragrammaton”. In English, they are sometimes pronounced as Yahweh, but more often as Jehovah. In Exodus 3:15, Jehovah goes on to tell Moses, “This is my name forever, the name by which I am to be remembered from generation to generation.”Most Bible translations do not use the name YHVH anymore. The reasons why can be summed up by the preface of the Revised Standard Version. It says that while the original American Standard Version rendered the tetragrammaton as Jehovah, their revised version uses the word LORD in all capital letters for two reasons:
1. “…the word 'Jehovah' does not accurately represent any form of the name ever used in Hebrew.”
2. “…the use of any proper name for the one and only God, as though there were other gods from whom He had to be distinguished, was discontinued in Judaism before the Christian era and is entirely inappropriate for the universal faith of the Christian Church.”
Irene, there were no capital letters or punctuation of any kind in the Hebrew and Greek languages that the Bible was written in originally. When you see “LORD”, it is because the translator did not want to print “YHVH”, which was originally there.
Any capitalizations at all that you read in your Bible are put there later by translators. So because they cap the “LORD OF LORDS” in Rev does not mean that Jesus is the “LORD” of the old testament, nor are they implying that he is.
Do you understand this?
peace and love,
mike
Mike, I know that. Georg did some research on why Jehovah God in the Old Test. is LORD in all capital letters. The translators were fearful not to take God's name in vain so they used LORD instead…
.
Peace IreneTK
you say;;We must have different KJV Bibles. He not only did not say in effect, no, I am not equal to God but in my Bible Jesus actually said at V33…Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? to which Jesus said at V35…If he(the writer of the law)called them gods, unto whom the word of God came and the scripture cannot be broken….then they are gods also!!V36 and you say I blaphemest because…I said, I am the Son of God… The bottom line is all are ONE with, God/Jesus/Spirit!
===============================================================
your bottom line is only true if you produce the fruits of that spirit;and until then what are you ??
it seems you like to pick your scriptures one by one with care not to notice any other that do not line up with your views.
is that type of views make you one with God and Christ and there spirit
Rev 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”see it is not everyone ;only those who OVERCOME.
you see TIM>K it is conditional;Jn 15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you,
Jn 15:8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples
Jn 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.
Jn 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved youJn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
Jn 17:7 Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.everything is conditional,to us doing God will not ours;Jn 17:15 My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one.
Jn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.so anyone that truly believes in God and his son,is put aside and so sanctified because of obeying Gods command what is ;; Love each other as I have loved you
this is worth to think it over what in reality it means..
Pierre
Pierre: Are you really saying that the blessings of God will come to you if you don't do something wrong?
Are you saying that after you produce the fruit of the spirit of God that then you will be blessed?
Are you saying that you believe that doing good deeds will earn a blessing from God and doing bad deeds (?) will earn a sin type demarit?
When you say the one who “overcomes” do you mean overcomes the temptation to do a wrong? Are you blessed if you do good and cursed if you do bad?
A true son of God is by faith in the words of Jesus. No judgment of fruit or works. Just believing Jesus. Anything and everything pertaining to God is accessed by faith in the words of Jesus from God the Father.
You said …everything is conditional to us doing Gods will, not ours….Gods will is that you believe him whom he sent, Jesus and what he, Jesus, has done for us, already accomplished, finished, completed and given to us freely, as a gift, even our total salvation.
If one does works for pay or a blessing, then the blessing or pay is not a gift but due recompense for effort applied. You then have missed the free gift of God. IMO, TK
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
