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Hi david,
You do more than not hide it.
You use it as the basis of your doctrines.
That is not wise as Scripture is that foundation rock.Hi,
Men cannot walk on water.
It is easily proven to be physically impossible.
I guess that is what went through Peter's mind when he was doing that very thing.Logic immediately destroyed his faith
Logic alone can not provide all the answers for we are limited in knowledge and understanding, but to throw it out is absurd. Logic led me to my faith in God when I thought belief in such for the weak and ignorant. Logic is organized reasoning, to abdicate such is the height of ignorance. I would expect to hear such from some obscure cultist or brainwashed jihadist, not from a follower of Christ. As Gallileo once said, “I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.” Nick you missed your calling, you would have made a great inquisitor in the old Catholic Church.
Hi cato,
You misunderstand.
Reason has it's place in the recognition of God.
Isaiah 1:18
“Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.Rom1
19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
It has a place in the expostion of scripture
Acts 17:17
So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the God-fearing Greeks, as well as in the marketplace day by day with those who happened to be there.Acts 17:2
As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the ScripturesActs 18:4
Every Sabbath he reasoned in the synagogue, trying to persuade Jews and Greeks.But when it is used over scripture to define aspects of God and righteousness it becomes as evil.
Hi,
It seems many now will only accept scripture to the extent that it does not offend reason.
If all could be known and understood that might be an option.
But much cannot yet be known.
Reason must submit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2008,10:55) Hi,
It seems many now will only accept scripture to the extent that it does not offend reason.
If all could be known and understood that might be an option.
But much cannot yet be known.
Reason must submit.
Reason must submit to what? Whose unreasonable views or scripture do we then follow? Any cult would make the same claim, we know what God wants, check your mind at the door, have faith and submit! I am sure Jim Jones would have said the same when it was time to tell everyone to drink the Kool-Aid.I would submit. I'm usually very submissive. I have strong opinions but I am used to looking to my husband for the ultimate decision/guidance. I was raised by a 50's housewife and learned very eary the art of submissiveness (i.e., my husbands dinner is always on the table by 5:30 p.m. and his shirts are always ironed. He handles the money and ultimate decisions and so on. Of course, unlike the 50's era we are more of a partnership and he looks to me before making any decisions.) Anyway, my point is, that submitting is something I'm good at even if I don't like it.
I have submitted to the Christian view of the bible and God all my life. It wasn't until I started studying the Trinity in 2003, that I learned that the bible had some errors in it. I was shocked! Since then I have let loose of my fear and ventured out of the play yard of Mother Church. I have since learned that a lot of the tenents of tradition and even the construction of creeds and scripture have been tampered with and added/taken away from.
My trust is no longer the submissive given. I do not feel secure in submitting to scripture. I don't feel secure that God would want me to anymore. I am leaning towards the feelings of Tim and Kevin and for sure Cato. I wonder about the things they are sharing? I wonder if they don't have a big, fat point! One that should not be overlooked.
Hi,
One man's logic is another man's lies.
We needs a stronger foundation-truth.Jn17
17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.Hi Not3,
Yes ponder these things in your heart.,
Sooner or later you will come back to your first love.Hosea 2:7
“She will pursue her lovers, but she will not overtake them;And she will seek them, but will not find them Then she will say, ' I will go back to my first husband,For it was better for me then than now!'1 John 4:19
We love, because He first loved us.Revelation 2:4
'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 15 2008,10:04) Hi Not3,
Yes ponder these things in your heart.,
Sooner or later you will come back to your first love.Hosea 2:7
“She will pursue her lovers, but she will not overtake them;And she will seek them, but will not find them Then she will say, ' I will go back to my first husband,For it was better for me then than now!'1 John 4:19
We love, because He first loved us.Revelation 2:4
'But I have this against you, that you have left your first love.
Maybe I will return, or maybe I will find out that the love of my life turned out to be a fantasy? Either way, I love God, the Creator of the world and the heavens. The doubt that has risen regarding his Son and even the writings of his OT will resolve in time. I know his voice and recognize the peace that passes understanding.His patience means salvation for many, including me. But I will ponder and wonder. I doubt I will ever fully take anything at face value again though…..
Hi not3,
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me.1 John 2:5
but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected By this we know that we are in Him:1 John 5:1
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 15 2008,10:19) Maybe I will return, or maybe I will find out that the love of my life turned out to be a fantasy? Either way, I love God, the Creator of the world and the heavens. The doubt that has risen regarding his Son and even the writings of his OT will resolve in time. I know his voice and recognize the peace that passes understanding. His patience means salvation for many, including me. But I will ponder and wonder. I doubt I will ever fully take anything at face value again though…..
Your love for God is still there, for God has not changed, nor I think your love for him or your fellow creation. What is changing is that your understanding of God is being broadened (not limited) by the recognition that scripture is not God's word but that of a collection of, no doubt, well meaning individuals trying to describe their understanding of such. So now you have to think and research for yourself as you can no longer read one book and have all of life's answers. I think you'll find God is even more then the Bible ascribes, a being so vast, mighty and beneficent that we can barely guess as to his nature, which is far beyond our comprehension and certainly not the petty being described in the OT. As I have stated many time how can a being who is all powerful and all knowing have regrets or be jealous, answer of course not. No longer are you shackled to one view of something so vast as the Almighty, so there is temporary anxiety as what you thought was the foundation of
your faith gone (well to be correct changed). As you strech your intellectual and spiritual muscles you will develop a new foundation to replace this and it will be one were heart and head can come together in agreement, where intellect and emotion converge to a greater synergy of faith.
Doubt, it is the proper beginning for any seeker of truth. As one author put it, “Who never doubted never believed, where doubt, there is truth- tis her shadow” (P.J. Bailey).Hi cato,
Were the “well meaning persons” who wrote about Elisha and Peter raising the dead accurate?Logic is truth in its context, but there is a greater truth that existed before creation that makes no logical sense to carnal people.
The gospel for example is foolishness to those who are perishing.
Quote (epistemaniac @ April 24 2007,07:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2007,07:02) Hi E,
Logic seems to suggest that if the trinity is true it is written?
Where?
ah well… can't expect you to admit y7ou are wrong about anything now can we Nick…. too bad really….anyways….
logic teaches us the Trinity is true because of the concept that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are all God having varied aspects to their relationship to creation, and yet the Bible says there is one God… now if I were to say that there is only one God, and that there are also, in the same respect and in the same relationship, there are 3 Gods, then I would be defying logic… however the Trinity does not defy or contradict logic because the doctrine does not say that there is one God and that there are three God's in the same sense and same relationship…. God is one in being or in essence, yet 3 in person… therefore God is not both 1 and 3 in the same time and in the same relationship…. so disagree with the Trinity all you like, the doctrine itself is not a violation of any of the laws of logic…. in fact… to make sense of the fact that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are God and yet there is only one God, the doctrine of the Trinity is necessary in order for the Bible to not contradict itself… and ultimately, all Arian, Unitarian, Binitarian or whatever other heretical doctrine that denies the Trinity wants to be called, are all in fact illogical and irrational…..
and Nick, logic seems to suggest that if the Trinity is true, it is written, its just that it is not necessary for a word (the word “Trinity” for example) to be written in order to be logical…
your continued attempt at what you apparently take to be “clever” questions that are supposed to trip people up are all simply sad attempts for you to go beyond where you ought to be going by attempting to ask questions that happen to think are clever, and that, since you apparently think that since your mind cannot answer them, no one else's can either… this is a very arrogant thing to do my friend….
blessings,
Ken
Greetings……Logic….You are one person consisting of mind body and spirit….Is your mind functionable without your body and can you reason without you spirit….The sum total is what makes you/youQuote (t8 @ May 04 2008,00:19) Logic is truth in its context, but there is a greater truth that existed before creation that makes no logical sense to carnal people. The gospel for example is foolishness to those who are perishing.
Yes, it is “foolishness” so it is written……but why do you think they wrote that? Because it was hard to reconcile?I wonder why God made his word hard to understand? Why give us logic if his ways are not logical? Seems like he set his children up to fail?
To all……………..one thing i learned if it's not logical, don't believe it till it becomes logical, other wise your in for a fall, well maybe not a fall, but at least a stumble. God said come let's reason together, showing God is both reasonable and logical. Were does it say we have to believe things that don't make sense. Whats logical, is critical to our understanding. The logical things of God will never make sense to the Carnal mind, but we have the mind of the Spirit, so spiritual things should make sense to us.
IMO……….gene
Nick……No but a mind of the Spirit of God is logical and (if) it be in you, it (WILL) cause the things of GOD to Be logical. Words without logic are pure confusion because the Spirit searches the deep things of God and makes them logical to those who have the Spirit. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and a false Sheppard they will not follow.
IMO…..gene
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