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Mike/Nike,
I believe your both right, we use the study of the word to learn each and every scripture, then our God-given human wisdom and logic to understand that despite scriptures being given that were accurate and reliable, after 2000 year misunderstandings from culture, idioms, and/or preconceived concepts/traditions has produced errors. This is further complicated by errors in the various translations with some being completely in error (in their biased interpretation from the original Greek and Hebrew), however it is by a complete and diligent study in the whole of scripture, and the leading of the Holy Spirit that truth is found and verified through scriptures.My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 13 2012,14:00) Mike/Nike,
I believe your both right, we use the study of the word to learn each and every scripture, then our God-given human wisdom and logic to understand that despite scriptures being given that were accurate and reliable, after 2000 year misunderstandings from culture, idioms, and/or preconceived concepts/traditions has produced errors. This is further complicated by errors in the various translations with some being completely in error (in their biased interpretation from the original Greek and Hebrew), however it is by a complete and diligent study in the whole of scripture, and the leading of the Holy Spirit that truth is found and verified through scriptures.My opinion – Wm
STmen s logic mean that it is men that think, analyzes,make the best out of what he thinks is best to him and then make it is own ,understanding,;
this is what I was doing many years ago;after I prayed I ask God to help me to understand his own scriptures what is a letter to the believers,and so I have start to read it in a way that I will by no means add or retract any word in it ;
clear my spirit of all other knowledge but God's word,when the first time this was done I add a few question that were bothering me ,and so instead of try to reason on the questions I wrote them down on paper,and start reading the scriptures again but I pay more attention to details then I found my answers ,i did this many times,in this way my understanding is not of me but of God's word,also by doing so I have understood what the spirit of Christ is and was able to see what was wrong in the translation,
Pierre
Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.God always provides at least two witnesses in this case one is the Holy Spirit, the other is the written word. The best example I have is the teaching of eternal punishment. For over 20 years I believed, since it was what my bible said it had to be true, but the Spirit kept pointing out the conflicts in scripture and to the very nature of a loving Father.
Then my “logic and reasoning” began to investigate and found that the word translated from “aion” only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected.
It took several months of research but I found that it's best translated as “The entirety of time for the object being discussed”. Hence when applied to God it is certainly to be considered unending, when applied to smoke rising, until the consumption of the item being burned, and to the torment of the wicked, until all has been paid. God will not torture a non-believer for eternity
For those being punished, the punishment will be proportional to their “sins” ending in annihilation. Eternal life is promised to believers and gifted to adherents, it is not something possessed by all of mankind. Eternal torment is not torment for eternity but torment to completion with eternal consequences. This concept is in keeping with the justice that God requires but with the Love that God is.
So the point I'm trying to make is we cannot just arbitrarily change the plain teachings of scripture unless we can find a “reason” that our current translation (that's supporting something, where the Spirit is leading us in a different direction), is in error from the original intent of the message. Otherwise that “pull in a different direction” may be from desire or another spirit.
The whole of scriptures is our safety net so we know we haven't departed from truth and the Holy Spirit.
My opinion – Wm
Well put Wm…………..I concur.
Pierre, that is also what I do. As questions come up on HN, they are in the back of my head as I'm constantly reading and re-reading the Bible; so when I come to a passage that answers my question, I am getting that answer right from God.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 12 2012,17:23) ……….the word translated from “aion” only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected.
Same with the Hebrew word “owlam”. It is often translated as “from eternity” or “forever”, yet the word specifies an indefinite period of time, usually in the distant past.The NWT almost always translates it as “time indefinite” which is seemingly the safest bet in most cases.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 13 2012,17:23) Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.God always provides at least two witnesses in this case one is the Holy Spirit, the other is the written word. The best example I have is the teaching of eternal punishment. For over 20 years I believed, since it was what my bible said it had to be true, but the Spirit kept pointing out the conflicts in scripture and to the very nature of a loving Father.
Then my “logic and reasoning” began to investigate and found that the word translated from “aion” only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected.
It took several months of research but I found that it's best translated as “The entirety of time for the object being discussed”. Hence when applied to God it is certainly to be considered unending, when applied to smoke rising, until the consumption of the item being burned, and to the torment of the wicked, until all has been paid. God will not torture a non-believer for eternity
For those being punished, the punishment will be proportional to their “sins” ending in annihilation. Eternal life is promised to believers and gifted to adherents, it is not something possessed by all of mankind. Eternal torment is not torment for eternity but torment to completion with eternal consequences. This concept is in keeping with the justice that God requires but with the Love that God is.
So the point I'm trying to make is we cannot just arbitrarily change the plain teachings of scripture unless we can find a “reason” that our current translation (that's supporting something, where the Spirit is leading us in a different direction), is in error from the original intent of the message. Otherwise that “pull in a different direction” may be from desire or another spirit.
The whole of scriptures is our safety net so we know we haven't departed from truth and the Holy Spirit.
My opinion – Wm
WMQuote God always provides at least two witnesses in this case one is the Holy Spirit, the other is the written word. The best example I have is the teaching of eternal punishment. For over 20 years I believed, since it was what my bible said it had to be true, but the Spirit kept pointing out the conflicts in scripture and to the very nature of a loving Father. your two witness you say one is the scriptures and the other one his the holy spirit ;could you define me what the witness does
and how
Pierre
It's God's method for establishing truth:
Matthew 18:16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
John 8:16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me. 17 In your own Law it is written that the testimony of two witnesses is true. 18 I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
2 Corinthians 13:1 This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
The Holy Spirit leads us to truth, human reasoning never will. The whole of scripture validates it, establishing it as truth. Human reasoning only helps us determine what was the original meanings that scripture intended to be relayed.
Wm
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,06:55) Nick, I have concluded that you are a waste of my time.
Mike.Think of it this way: he makes you a better person, if you can endure.
Quote (david @ Feb. 13 2012,15:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,06:55) Nick, I have concluded that you are a waste of my time.
Mike.Think of it this way: he makes you a better person, if you can endure.
Hi David,I'm glad Nick is back, how about you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgskt
Quote Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.you should read what I say again and understand it before you comment on it ,this would help you to give true advice ,
because your comment is false if it is addressed to me for what I have written.
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2012,01:01) skt Quote Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.you should read what I say again and understand it before you comment on it ,this would help you to give true advice ,
because your comment is false if it is addressed to me for what I have written.
Pierre
Pierre,
Where is my comment false? I did not say you were mislead, do you disagree that there are those who are being mislead by their “feelings”?Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 17 2012,16:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2012,01:01) skt Quote Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.you should read what I say again and understand it before you comment on it ,this would help you to give true advice ,
because your comment is false if it is addressed to me for what I have written.
Pierre
Pierre,
Where is my comment false? I did not say you were mislead, do you disagree that there are those who are being mislead by their “feelings”?Wm
agreed
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,12:05) Hi,
Logic fails miserably when trying to grasp the spiritual words of God.
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Man's logic is not God's logic.
wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,07:05) Hi,
Logic fails miserably when trying to grasp the spiritual words of God.
Nickyou are wrong ;read the story of Jonas the king of ninive told his people let all stop doing what we are doing and let put sackcloth MAYBE THE GOD OF THE PROPHET WILL NOT DO THAT TO US ;
THIS WAS LOGICAL AND GOOD THINKING TO ME ,AND IN FACT THEY HAVE SAVED THEIR LIFES
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 17 2012,04:20) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2012,01:01) skt Quote Pierre,
How many have gone astray feeling they were following the “Holy Spirit”? Without the scriptures to guide you, you are “feeling” out your own religion.you should read what I say again and understand it before you comment on it ,this would help you to give true advice ,
because your comment is false if it is addressed to me for what I have written.
Pierre
Pierre,
Where is my comment false? I did not say you were mislead, do you disagree that there are those who are being mislead by their “feelings”?Wm
SKTI believe that our emotion and deep feelings are not the same
the emotions are of the flesh ;but the deep truth feelings with the heart are the source of knowing God in you.
are superficial feelings are more related to emotions than truth ,and so are of the flesh
One has just rejected these scriptures.
He said: it is not true.
Meaning that man's logic is also God's logic.Or, he can not understand these scriptures.
God is simply saying that man's logic is not God's logic.Man does think logic,but *not always* God's logic.
The concept of man's thinking is still in him.
Jesus said that we must be conformed to Christ thinking.
Not to the rabbi masters of the world.God said:
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.Isaiah 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 14 2014,07:05) Hi,
Logic fails miserably when trying to grasp the spiritual words of God.
Nick,Actually you lack knowledge of what logic is since you attempt to use it yourself and I don't think you are intentionally being a hypocrite on the subject.
Logic is only a tool for reasoning. Like the vast majority of tools it can be used either for good or for evil. Condemning those who use logic is like condemning those who use math, those who play musical instruments, dance, or any other things that human beings do. I know of no where in Scripture where it is banned and I know of places where it is used by God's servants and even God himself. Don't be like the woman who criticized king David for dancing in the street.
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