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Quote (Gene @ May 26 2009,12:20) Nick………….if my explanations are wrong then please prove them wrong , don't just mouth of about them, as if you know they are but are unable to show them wrong. That is just your PRIDE talking, and because you lack understanding of them doesn't mean everyone else doesn't understand them also. IMO peace and love………………….gene
geneplease ,if can not prove them true with scriptures why would you give as the work to show you wrong ,
we can do that by telling you,so prove to us that you are truthful to scriptures
Pierre
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,08:38) Hi KW,
Wow!
..walk humbly with your God..”
You do realize that many of those known to be humble have said just what I said and were even more confident what they said came from God for they did not include the word “if”.God speaks the language of truth and if you speak what is true then you speak his language and voice his thoughts. It is irrelevant how you came to that truth.
Hi KW,
But you offered us your thoughts on corrupted spirits and these could not be lined up with scripture at all.
So what gives?Nick Hassan,
I offer my understanding of scripture and I leave it to you to test whether that understanding comes from God or not.
I test my own understanding as I am unsure if I actually understand what God means given my limited knowledge.
Some I have become more sure of than others as God has over time revealed more information to me.
The basics remain the same and you can do something without understanding the mechanics that allow you to do it. For example driving a automobile even though you do not know how a combustable engine makes it go.
Quote (kerwin @ May 13 2010,22:00) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 13 2010,16:38) Hi KW,
” My thoughts are greater than your thoughts”
Your current thoughts are based on fault finding based on ignorance and not on the spirit of God. That is clear if you follow my reasoning.You, yourself are guilty of using logic to explain your position on scripture and to reach conclusions based on scripture. It is pretty much a must for one who thinks.
The question then is not if you use logic but whether or not the logic you use is valid and whether the data you put into it is true.
You apply those tests whether you realize it or not. The answers you get when doing so result in your understandings.
If the data you put into a logical formula is from God and the logical formula is valid then the conclusion of that formula is also true.
The exception is if you have insufficent data then it is wrong to make a firm conclusion or perhaps any at all.
God gave us intellect and he expects us to use it in our pursuit of him.
Kerwinyour logic is of men ,and this is why
God has inspired prophetes over a great span of time none understood ,
but the scriptures say that the ones who understood ,received the understanding not from logic but from the holy spirit of God.whatever is of God can not be understood as per God intervention only.not by mens logic
Isa 19:12 Where are your wise men now?
Let them show you and make known
what the LORD Almighty
has plannedPs 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect;
the word of the LORD is flawless.
He is a shield
for all who take refuge in him.Pierre
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 14 2010,11:30) Hi KW,
So you take away your claim of equality with God in your thoughts?
Nick Hassan,If you look at what I stated then you will see that I merely stated that if God is directing/doing my thinking then my thinking is equal to God's. I freely admit that I do not know when God is doing my thinking and when he is not. If I did I would not have to test what I believe as I would know what was false and what was true by who was doing the thinking.
terraricca,
You are cherry picking scriptures and I can also quote those that commend wisdom.
Proverbs 2:12(NIV) reads:
Quote Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse,and
Proverbs 3:13(NIV) reads:
Quote Blessed is the man who finds wisdom,
the man who gains understanding,Are these two scriptures in dispute with Isaiah 19:12?
If not then why?
Can you answer the why without using logic?
Can you explain the logic behind why you chose to quote the versus you did?
Humans are reasoning creatures and thus using logic is inherent in our actions and thoughts. That is how God designed us.
Quote (kerwin @ May 14 2010,17:14) terraricca, You are cherry picking scriptures and I can also quote those that commend wisdom.
Proverbs 2:12(NIV) reads:
Quote Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men,
from men whose words are perverse,and
Proverbs 3:13(NIV) reads:
Quote Blessed is the man who finds wisdom,
the man who gains understanding,Are these two scriptures in dispute with Isaiah 19:12?
If not then why?
Can you answer the why without using logic?
Can you explain the logic behind why you chose to quote the versus you did?
Humans are reasoning creatures and thus using logic is inherent in our actions and thoughts. That is how God designed us.
kerwinthere are two sorts of wisdom the wisdom of men and the wisdom of God .
in both verses you have quoted you have confirm the two verses i have quoted you.
the two verses i quoted you was to show you that God says is what is,what God plans is what will be ,so if you use logic to define Gods understanding you will fail ,but if he give you wisdom to understand is way or plan now you do not use logic you are inspired ,guided,directed by God.
the problem with men is that we always try to out run the other this is not the wisdom of above,but it requires logic so men can understand it , read the 2chp1-10 of Eph and tell me if there is logic in there??
but rather wisdom and understanding of what God has made clear to the saved.
Terrarica,
I do not believe you know what logic is. All logic is, is a form of reasoning and God designed mankind to reason. You are using reason in you argument. The question then becomes is the form of your reason good or bad. If it is good then it is by definition logical. Thus the wisom of God is by definition logical while the wisdom of men is illogical.
God is the one who made the rules for logical reason and man merely discovered those rules in his serches. It is like any other rule God has established and man has later discovered and claimed as his own.
It is true that Logic can be misused just like the Devil quoted scripture when tempting Jesus. It, like scripture, should not be condemned because of that misuse. The deeds of the evil nature are what we must condemn.
Hi KW,
Logic is according to the weak visual ideas of men.
At best it can glimpse things that are invisible.
Why men depend so much on it is beyond meQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2010,16:31) Hi KW,
Logic is according to the weak visual ideas of men.
At best it can glimpse things that are invisible.
Why men depend so much on it is beyond me
You display both an ignorance of man and of God with those words. It is God who created all that is and in doing so he established certain rules. Among those many rules and the rules on how to reason logically.In condemning those rules you choose to condemn God. Why?
Man is not so powerful that he can make such rules. In a accusing him of doing so you place man above God. That is a foolish thing to do.
That is why Paul taught that the type of wisdom engage in in based on the principles of this world and not God.
I relize that you have been taught this and other lies much of your life. But you must come to realize that much of what you were taught are lies taught by men. That is why a poor spirit is required.
Nick………..Our logic process is to sort and reason things out, it is not evil as you seem to always picture it. We can with the Spirit of GOD be given good reasoning abilities and understandings that are right. I tend to agree with Kerwin here why do you take it upon yourself to condemn the Logic reasoning and understanding processes, specially when you use it also. That seem to be somewhat hypocritical on you part Brother.
peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ May 15 2010,17:12) Terrarica, I do not believe you know what logic is. All logic is, is a form of reasoning and God designed mankind to reason. You are using reason in you argument. The question then becomes is the form of your reason good or bad. If it is good then it is by definition logical. Thus the wisom of God is by definition logical while the wisdom of men is illogical.
God is the one who made the rules for logical reason and man merely discovered those rules in his serches. It is like any other rule God has established and man has later discovered and claimed as his own.
It is true that Logic can be misused just like the Devil quoted scripture when tempting Jesus. It, like scripture, should not be condemned because of that misuse. The deeds of the evil nature are what we must condemn.
kerwinlogic.
common sense.
are only true in the context they apply ,and to the understanding there of.in the case of God it can not be applied that way,or any way,
because we do not know the ways of God,
how many times people have said this and that and were wrong by a mile.what we know from God is what the spirit tells us but how many have the spirit of Christ ??
so many have claim to have it and fail because of there lies they said.
God and his word is understood trough the spirit of Christ,
not by the logic or common sense of men.Pierre
terraricca,
In logic a lie is an unsound premise. In other words it is bad logic or otherwise called illogic or a lack of logic.
Hi,
Logic has led to all the foolish theology we see hopefully presented here.
Every man's logic is his own and his alone.
'thy word is truth”Quote (kerwin @ May 25 2010,16:37) terraricca, In logic a lie is an unsound premise. In other words it is bad logic or otherwise called illogic or a lack of logic.
kerwinthe way you talk i understand that “logic” is the true way to understand things ,from men and God ??
your approached to God with your logic it does not work,
why because who knows the spirit of God??Da 2:5 The king replied to the astrologers, “This is what I have firmly decided: If you do not tell me what my dream was and interpret it, I will have you cut into pieces and your houses turned into piles of rubble.
Da 2:6 But if you tell me the dream and explain it, you will receive from me gifts and rewards and great honor. So tell me the dream and interpret it for me.”
Da 2:7 Once more they replied, “Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will interpret it.”see what wisdom of men can not do;Da 2:10 The astrologers answered the king, “There is not a man on earth who can do what the king asks! No king, however great and mighty, has ever asked such a thing of any magician or enchanter or astrologer.
Da 2:11 What the king asks is too difficult. No one can reveal it to the king except the gods, and they do not live among men.”Da 2:17 Then Daniel returned to his house and explained the matter to his friends Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah.
Da 2:18 He urged them to plead for mercy from the God of heaven concerning this mystery, so that he and his friends might not be executed with the rest of the wise men of Babylon.
Da 2:19 During the night the mystery was revealed to Daniel in a vision. Then Daniel praised the God of heaven
Da 2:20 and said:
“Praise be to the name of God for ever and ever;
wisdom and power are his.it takes a righteous man and is friends and all to pray for the answer ,IS THID THE TYPE OF LOGIC YOU TALKING ABOUT ? KERWIN
Ge 41:14 So Pharaoh sent for Joseph, and he was quickly brought from the dungeon. When he had shaved and changed his clothes, he came before Pharaoh.
Ge 41:15 Pharaoh said to Joseph, “I had a dream, and no one can interpret it. But I have heard it said of you that when you hear a dream you can interpret it.”
Ge 41:16 “I cannot do it,” Joseph replied to Pharaoh, “but God will give Pharaoh the answer he desires.”THIS IS NOT DEPEND ON MAN BUT GOD ,THE RIGHTEOUS IS ONLY A CHANEL.
logic is for mens world because they do not trust God so they beleive a lie
Pierre
Nick………..Your statement is not true , If God is Guiding the man “LOGIC” it them would be GOD'S Logic, “FOR THE SPIRIT SEARCHES THE (DEEP) THINGS OF GOD. Your constant assuming the all logic here is mans (alone) is pure falsehood. You assume that because it often does not agree with your logic, That could be the reason you are failing to grow, in the Spirit, because you reject logic thinking GOD'S word is Illogical and therefore logic does not find itself in his words. Without the gift of GOD'S spirit you can not even begin to understand the logic of GOD”S WORDS . I find His Words very logical and sensible also. And by putting them together we can with his spirit guiding our thoughts come to sound understandings. To reject Logic is to reject (ANY) Sense of rational and understanding, IMO
peace and love………………gene
JustAskin wrote:
Quote Kerwin,
You cannot test the word of God with logic.
KJ and 'TT', trinitarian tricks, has shown how 'Logic' and 'Premises' can easily fool the unwary…therefore they must not be trusted.
Quote Premise A: Do you believe there is the Father?
Premise B: Do you believe there is the Son?
Premise C: Do you believe there is the Holy Spirit?
Therefore, you believe in the trinity….boom!I believe a better rewording of this argument is:
All people who believe in the Father believe he is God.
All people who believe in the Son believe he is God.
All people who believe in the Holy Spirit believe he is God.
Therefore if you believe in all three then you believe in the trinity.There are a couple flaws as none of the premises are true and even if you believe all three are true you may be polytheistic. You could add some spin to convert it from an unsound argument to a invalid argument but is is still bad logic.
Poor logic though giving the appearance of logic is not logic as it is called illogic.
We use logical reasoning often though too often it is flawed and therefore not really logical.
Your fellow student,
Kerwin
Pierre,
I am only pointing out that logic is a tool that God provides us with in order to seek knowledge of him. It is not the only tool and it is not one to be used without being guided by the inspiration of God.
Revelations are also a tool God gives us but they are not the only tool as scripture gives us demonstrations of the use of logic by Jesus, Paul, and others. Revelations do become the premises or statements accepted as true in our logical arguments. If the revelation is false then those premises are untrue and the logical argument is not really logic though it has the appearance of such. It is true that the ignorant, unwary and corrupt can be taken in by such deceptive appearances but that does not make logic corrupt just like it does not make all apparent revelations corrupt.
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