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Quote (gollamudi @ Dec. 16 2010,02:18) Hi brother Ed J,
It is not Free Will thread but Legalism vs Spiritual Law.
Hi Adam,You didn't answer my question to you? (Four Posts up!)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Dec. 16 2010,02:33) Since it is not so required as you are going out of topic brother Ed.
Hi Adam,What are you saying?
It is not required to be specific
about when a source is to be given?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:17) Irene, I assume by Jew you mean either those descended from Israel or those adopted into that bloodline whether they are Christian or not. If I am correct then I do not believe we are in disagreement.
Kerwin, yes we are….Ireneall
there are two scriptures sabbath one is a weekly one and the other is the sabbath of God what is the 1000 years (day) the rest of God
that is the sabbath who the israelite in exodus were condemn not to enter
Paul as well talks about it
Pierre
To All……….The word legalism simply it is within the frame work of Law , because law is what define what is legal or not legal right?. But here is the point Paul was driving at by saying by “the WORKS of LAW (that is to say, how law works) shall NO flesh be Justified before GOD”. So that begs some explanation, One, how does LAW or Legalism Works . Go to Exodus 20: 20 and it plainly shows us how it (works) , it works through the medium of FEAR, just as Moses said it did. “FOR GOD HAS DONE THIS THAT THE (FEAR) OF HIM BE BEFORE YOU FACE , THAT YOU SIN NOT”. Notice FEAR is the FORCE the caused them to keep the LAWS. But you see, fear can never make a person right in their heart , so Paul says they can not be justified before Him through the WORKS of Law because the law does NOT Change the HEART of anyone.
Now lets look at the gentiles who did not have the law, and what does it say, ?”THE GENTILES WHO HAVE NOT THE LAW (BUT) DO THE THING CONTAINED THEREIN SHOW THE LAW WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS BY THE HAND OF GOD”. You see forced compliance had nothing to do with it but a New Heart that thinks differently by the LOVE of GOD shed around in it , and that was all that was needed. So a man can be made right in his heart even if He never ever heard of the Laws of GOD.Just that simple, IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Gene and Tim Kraft,
What you believe is covering up the true difference between the old and new covenant. The difference is that under the new you have the power of God to do all that is right but under the old you only had human effort. That is a crucial difference.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 17 2010,17:02) To All……….The word legalism simply it is within the frame work of Law , because law is what define what is legal or not legal right?. But here is the point Paul was driving at by saying by “the WORKS of LAW (that is to say, how law works) shall NO flesh be Justified before GOD”. So that begs some explanation, One, how does LAW or Legalism Works . Go to Exodus 20: 20 and it plainly shows us how it (works) , it works through the medium of FEAR, just as Moses said it did. “FOR GOD HAS DONE THIS THAT THE (FEAR) OF HIM BE BEFORE YOU FACE , THAT YOU SIN NOT”. Notice FEAR is the FORCE the caused them to keep the LAWS. But you see, fear can never make a person right in their heart , so Paul says they can not be justified before Him through the WORKS of Law because the law does NOT Change the HEART of anyone. Now lets look at the gentiles who did not have the law, and what does it say, ?”THE GENTILES WHO HAVE NOT THE LAW (BUT) DO THE THING CONTAINED THEREIN SHOW THE LAW WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS BY THE HAND OF GOD”. You see forced compliance had nothing to do with it but a New Heart that thinks differently by the LOVE of GOD shed around in it , and that was all that was needed. So a man can be made right in his heart even if He never ever heard of the Laws of GOD.Just that simple, IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Genebut thats not the law i mean your last paragraph,the law or the will of God is to me the same thing ,
and God does not give us a free bee,Jesus never said stay home just read the words i am telling you ,and you be saved,
i will send you a new hearth in the mail.Jesus did not say that neither his disciples.and it is not written in scriptures
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2010,09:14) Gene and Tim Kraft, What you believe is covering up the true difference between the old and new covenant. The difference is that under the new you have the power of God to do all that is right but under the old you only had human effort. That is a crucial difference.
Hi Kerwin,God (in us) puts it in our heart to follow “The Law”! (Jer.31:31-33 / Hebrews 8:8-10)
Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to The Law of God, neither indeed can be.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgTo……….> Terricca , EDJ, Kerwin, Tim, we are all saying the same thing GOD Through His Spirit Put His Laws in our Heart by a new Nature he creates (IN) US. “FOR I WILL TAKE OUT OF YOU THE HEART OF STONE AND GIVE YOU A HEART OF FLESH (soft heart), and again the LORD (WORKS) (IN) US Both to WILL and DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE. This should be easy to understand by all here. GOD the Father CREATES us RIGHT BY HIS SPIRIT (intellect) “we are being transformed by the renewing of our Minds”. There should be no argument at all over this one. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………….gene
Gene: I look forward to your posts. This is excellent. So true. We are close in faith and that is fine and good but what you may not have realized you taught me something early on that I love about your posts. For a while I was to stupid to know what it stood for.
When you sign your posts you always include IMO!— IN MY OPINION– It has a powerful effect on the reader because it is respectful of others positions in the word of God. It says this is the way I see it at this time but I am always open to truth from God that might change my position.
I appreciate that and totally agree with your interpretation above. IMO– Thanks, TK
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 23 2010,09:14) Gene and Tim Kraft, What you believe is covering up the true difference between the old and new covenant. The difference is that under the new you have the power of God to do all that is right but under the old you only had human effort. That is a crucial difference.
Kerwin: God bless you;What I see between the old and new is completely different so please bear with me.
IMO God never left mankind from the beginning. There is no place for God to go, he is already there. God is everywhere!
Man left God(in his mind) by believing incorrectly that he was separated from God. For me, that was the introduction of sin, man incorrectly believeing that what he did or didn't do, right or wrong, separated him(in his mind) from God, more and more.
Those incorrect beliefs were passed down through mankind further and further into deep darkness and sin.
Some of the great patriarchs had faith and would not let go of God for any reason. They held a righteous position with God by faith.
Faith is the only connection a man can have with the unseen/untouchable God of creation.
As it was at the first so it is at the last. Jesus said the first became last and the last first. The same faith connection man had with God at the beginning is the same now. It took a God/man to expose the power of God in earth through Jesus so that man would hear and follow the truth from Jesus.
Actions or doing right or wrong was never part of the equation for union with God. It was always faith that God was with you and in you and no works could separate God from man!
This is my opinion at this time. This is how God has given truth to me. Please assess and respond. Thank you, TK
TK
you say;Actions or doing right or wrong was never part of the equation for union with God. It was always faith that God was with you and in you and no works could separate God from man!
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this does not make sense to me could you elaborate on it ,you say;Man left God(in his mind) by believing incorrectly that he was separated from God. For me, that was the introduction of sin, man incorrectly believeing that what he did or didn't do, right or wrong, separated him(in his mind) from God, more and more.
Those incorrect beliefs were passed down through mankind further and further into deep darkness and sin.
===============
this view is wrong ,why ?;what you are saying that men left God in there mind and so drifed away ,and that this tought was transmited to there oofspring,you are right by saying men left God ,but how? by deobeying to his will ,
wen that happen then it was in God s good will to make things up again ,men was good to leave God but to come back after we left is another story,there is a penalty to be paid ,
that s were the son of God come in to play with is own live,
Lk 11:42 “Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone.We will not neglect the house of our God.”
Ps 119:16 I delight in your decrees;
I will not neglect your word1Jn 4:10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.
Heb 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
Pierre
To all,
Scripture instructs us that both Zachariah and his wife Elizabeth were considered righteous in the sight of God prior to the conception of John the Baptist, Luke 1:5-6. We know that both were under the law of Mosses at that time. We also know that those that believe God are credited with righteousness. In addition we are taught that faith is made whole by our actions. The actions of these two were obedience to the law by human effort as the spirit had not yet been given to believers. The law did not expect total sinlessness or there would not have been a reason for yearly sacrifices for forgiveness of sins. It did expect one to avoid willful, as opposed to addictive; aka compulsive, sins. In the account Zachariah sinned in not believing the angel and was punished for his rebellion, Luke 1:19-20. He showed repentance by doing as God instructed him when asked what to name his son, Luke 1:59-63. Even when making a sacrifice one shows faith in God.
We now have a better contract with God.
Faith without love does not please God. A demon has faith in God and the fruit of his faith is not repenting and doing right but rather standing in fear of his coming destruction. He thus shows by his actions he does not fear God. A person who justifies their sins by the sacrifice of an animal or of Jesus is behaving just like the aforementioned demon.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2010,15:29) To all, Scripture instructs us that both Zachariah and his wife Elizabeth were considered righteous in the sight of God prior to the conception of John the Baptist, Luke 1:5-6. We know that both were under the law of Mosses at that time. We also know that those that believe God are credited with righteousness. In addition we are taught that faith is made whole by our actions. The actions of these two were obedience to the law by human effort as the spirit had not yet been given to believers. The law did not expect total sinlessness or there would not have been a reason for yearly sacrifices for forgiveness of sins. It did expect one to avoid willful as opposed to addictive, aka compulsive, sins. In the account Zachariah sinned in not believing the angel and was punished for his rebellion, Luke 1:19-20. He showed repentance by doing as God instructed him when asked what to name his son, Luke 1:59-63. Even when making a sacrifice one shows faith in God.
We now have a better contract with God.
Faith without love does not please God. A demon has faith in God and the fruit of his faith is not repenting and doing right but rather standing in fear of his coming destruction. He thus shows by his actions he does not fear God. A person who justifies their sins by the sacrifice of an animal or of Jesus is behaving just like the aforementioned demon.
Kerwinyou got that totally wrong +
faith was always be there for those who honor God, and they knew that it was by the hearth that true worship as to come,
and the law was to show there obedience to there God.since Christ do we do not have to show deeds of our faith??
Pierre
Pierre,
A lot of what I wrote is based on ideas expressed in James 2. It is written that faith without action is dead, James 2:17. He then provides us of many examples from the Old Testament to support what he said. One of those examples is Abraham who demonstrated his faith by the righteous action of offering up his son on the altar, James 2:21-22. He also provided an example of one who faith did not lead to righteous action and that is the unrepentant demon whose unrighteous action born from his faith in God leads to the action of him shuttering, James 2:19.
That was the old covenant. The instruction of the new covenant is to live by the spirit. Scripture clearly states if you do that you will not sin, Galatians 5:16. That too is done by faith and is better than what those living before the new covenant had.
My previous post described those under the law of Mosses and not the new covenant.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,01:45) Pierre, A lot of what I wrote is based on ideas expressed in James 2. It is written that faith without action is dead, James 2:17. He then provides us of many examples from the Old Testament to support what he said. One of those examples is Abraham who demonstrated his faith by the righteous action of offering up his son on the altar, James 2:21-22. He also provided an example of one who faith did not lead to righteous action and that is the unrepentant demon whose unrighteous action born from his faith in God leads to the action of him shuttering, James 2:19.
That was the old covenant. The instruction of the new covenant is to live by the spirit. Scripture clearly states if you do that you will not sin, Galatians 5:16. That too is done by faith and is better than what those living before the new covenant had.
My previous post described those under the law of Mosses and not the new covenant.
Kerwinyou also fail to understand ,God never changes,the fist covenant was the shadow of good things to comes,but because of there hearths were like rock and there necks like iron the Israelites could not see what was on hand,only a few,
this now that we are living in the reality of those good things still but a few believe.
it is the hearth that sees God.
Pierre
Pierre,
I agree that God never changes and thus his words that humanity obey all he commands still stands, Numbers 15:39-40, Deuteronomy 6:24-25, and Deuteronomy 13:18.
I also agree that the covenant God made with the Hebrew people is a shadow of the new covenant since it did not impart the gift of the Holy Spirit to those that believed.
I also believe that in both ages just a few believe though I hope for many more.
In short I am not seeing where we disagree as far as your last post.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,01:45) Pierre, A lot of what I wrote is based on ideas expressed in James 2. It is written that faith without action is dead, James 2:17. He then provides us of many examples from the Old Testament to support what he said. One of those examples is Abraham who demonstrated his faith by the righteous action of offering up his son on the altar, James 2:21-22. He also provided an example of one who faith did not lead to righteous action and that is the unrepentant demon whose unrighteous action born from his faith in God leads to the action of him shuttering, James 2:19.
That was the old covenant. The instruction of the new covenant is to live by the spirit. Scripture clearly states if you do that you will not sin, Galatians 5:16. That too is done by faith and is better than what those living before the new covenant had.
My previous post described those under the law of Mosses and not the new covenant.
Kerwinwhat is ” The actions of these two were obedience to the law by human effort as the spirit had not yet been given to believers. The law did not expect total sinlessness or there would not have been a reason for yearly sacrifices for forgiveness of sins. “
could elaborate??
Pierre
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