Lazarus and the rich man

[Baker]

At first glance, you could say these Scriptures show us that when
you either go the heaven or you go to hell.
I tell you when it comes to Scriptures I like to ask a lot of questions.
So why did Jesus choose a poor beggar and a rich man for both of his demonstration?  does that mean when your poor to go to heaven, and when you rich you go to hell?  I don't think so.

Mat 19:23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.  
Mat 19:23 ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.  

Is Jesus picking on rich people?  certainly not, being rich is not a sin; however if our wealth blinds us of the needs of others, it can become sin.  listen to what Jesus has to say.

Jam 2:15   If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,  

Jam 2:16   And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit?  

This is only half of what this parable is trying to convey to us.

Luk 16:19 ¶ There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:  

Luk 16:20   And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,  

Was Lazarus really someone Jesus knew?  Why did He say the certain beggar?  Jesus also said a certain rich man; did He not wish to identify the rich man?  Lazarus means God is helper; is that significant to the parable?  It could be.

Luk 16:20   And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,  

This is were I will leave this and see who has any explanation what this parable means?

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Irene

the man in the parable Lazarus was in a needing position at the rich man table (power)but the rich man did absolutely nothing to see the need of this man in his camp,but he could see the need to increase his storage space of all what he receiving from God ,

i think this is were the sin of the rich man lays.

because he (the rich man ) could not understand the gift of God love ,if you cannot share your wealth with the needy in your power,
you are in trouble.

Pierre

[Istari]

Terraricca,
You are absolutely correct and the parable should have been simple enough to understand.

The rich should share what they have.

Africa was made poor and America rich to demonstrate the parable.

Your neighbour was made poor for you to nourish them with your riches.

This parable has nothing to do with the physical rich person going to hell and physically poor person going to heaven.
Just being poor is not a ticket to everlasting life. And there is nothing wrong with being rich, else Solomon and Job have no chance!

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 15 2011,17:27)

Terraricca, You are absolutely correct and the parable should have been simple enough to understand. The rich should share what they have. Africa was made poor and America rich to demonstrate the parable. Your neighbour was made poor for you to nourish them with your riches. This parable has nothing to do with the physical rich person going to hell and physically poor person going to heaven. Just being poor is not a ticket to everlasting life. And there is nothing wrong with being rich, else Solomon and Job have no chance!

istari

as for Africa ,not so all countries have receive power and wealth from God,in theyr history ,

the western country help much but the corruption and the lost of money is unbeleivable

waist is another,crime is also a problem,

many of the problems in this world are self inflicted,

so I would not compere the parable to the poor country.

Pierre

[Baker]

Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's You right, however that is not were the story ends. As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes. And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped. Now lets go on with the story…

Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made. First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.
Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:” I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did. Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.
What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

How is this to be understood? Like in Luke 16:23? Who is there among us that is good?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will.

Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us. It is how we live now that matters. You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you. You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same.
this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love. He could not say:” I am sorry Father.” He could not humble himself.
The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life. His reward is eternal life. Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise.
Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post….
Peace and Loven Irene

[Baker]

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 15 2011,10:27)

Terraricca, You are absolutely correct and the parable should have been simple enough to understand. The rich should share what they have. Africa was made poor and America rich to demonstrate the parable. Your neighbour was made poor for you to nourish them with your riches. This parable has nothing to do with the physical rich person going to hell and physically poor person going to heaven. Just being poor is not a ticket to everlasting life. And there is nothing wrong with being rich, else Solomon and Job have no chance!

you would be surprised how few really understand that parable….
Some don't even think it is a parable, and take it literal…  Many believe in a Hell fire that will burn forever and ever.  They don't consider that we have a merciful God, and what purpose would it serve God to do so….
Peace and Love Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 15 2011,20:04)

Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's  You right, however that is not were the story ends.  As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes.  And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped.  Now lets go on with the story… Luk 16:22   And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;   Luk 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.   it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made.  First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.   Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:”  I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did.  Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.  What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead. 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   Jhn 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.   How is this to be understood?  Like in Luke 16:23?  Who is there among us that is good? Mat 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.   Act 3:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.   Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will. Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us.  It is how we live now that matters.  You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you.  You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same. this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love.  He could not say:” I am sorry Father.”  He could not humble himself. The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life.  His reward is eternal life.  Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise. Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post…. Peace and Loven Irene

Irene

I do not believe that the trumpet will be heard in the 1000years sabbath of Christ because all present in the sabbath will have already accepted Christ and his father.

this is why they are in the first resurrection and not in the second.

Pierre

[kerwin]

To all,

You should consider that parables are not based on a fictional environment but rather on one the listener can emphasize with. You see this with both the parable of the wayward son in Luke 15:11-32 and with the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15:3-7. This is also the case with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as the Jewish listeners were well aware of the teaching of Sheol; which is translated as Hades in Greek and Grave in English. Jesus used this setting as well as the rich man and Lazarus for specific reasons. He used the rich man to represent anyone who chooses to live a life of wickedness and he used Lazarus to choose those who choose to live a life of righteousness. Hades is used because it is the land of the dead and so very important to the main point. In addition Hades is split between a land of torment and one of comfort where one experiences either torment of comfort according to the way they lived their life. It also makes the point there is no hope to change your fate after death.

The main point is that if an individual does not listen to the Law of Mosses then they will not listen to Jesus even after his resurrection from the dead.

In verse 27-28 the rich man begs his ancestor to allow him to return as a ghost in order to warn them so they do not earn the same fate as him.

In verse 29 Abraham tells him that they already have Scripture.

In verse 30 he tells Abram the Old Testament is not enough.

In verse 31 Abram states if one, meaning Jesus, rises from the dead the will not be convinced if they did not listen to Mosses and the Prophets.

Note: One does not rise from the dead after inheriting the kingdom of heaven.

References:

Luke 15:3-7(NIV) reads:

Quote

Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

Luke 15:11-32(NIV) reads:

Quote

Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ So he got up and went to his father. “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him. “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

Luke 16:19-31(NIV) reads:

Quote

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2011,16:52)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 15 2011,20:04) Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's  You right, however that is not were the story ends.  As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes.  And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped.  Now lets go on with the story… Luk 16:22   And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;   Luk 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.   it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made.  First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.   Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:”  I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did.  Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.  What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead. 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   Jhn 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.   How is this to be understood?  Like in Luke 16:23?  Who is there among us that is good? Mat 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.   Act 3:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.   Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will. Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us.  It is how we live now that matters.  You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you.  You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same. this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love.  He could not say:” I am sorry Father.”  He could not humble himself. The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life.  His reward is eternal life.  Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise. Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post…. Peace and Loven Irene Irene I do not believe that the trumpet will be heard in the 1000years sabbath of Christ because all present in the sabbath will have already accepted Christ and his father. this is why they are in the first resurrection and not in the second. Pierre

Pierre!  what about all those poor aborted Babies, that did nothing wrong.  Or don't you believe that life begins at conception?  And all those, that never had a chance, that died in the Old Test. times, they will get the lake of fire?  Well I believe in a merciful God.  i don't know for sure, but neither do you….And only the Saints who died for Christ and the multitude that stand in front of Gods Throne and worship Him day and night, they that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb in will be in the first resurrection.

Rev 7:11   And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,  

Rev 7:12   Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.  

Rev 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?  

Rev 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  

These will reign with Christ a thousand years…..Not those that I mentioned above….

Peace Irene

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 15 2011,21:46)

To all, You should consider that parables are not based on a fictional environment but rather on one the listener can emphasize with.  You see this with both the parable of the wayward son in Luke 15:11-32 and with the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15:3-7.   This is also the case with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as the Jewish listeners were well aware of the teaching of Sheol; which is translated as Hades in Greek and Grave in English.     Jesus used this setting as well as the rich man and Lazarus for specific reasons.  He used the rich man to represent anyone who chooses to live a life of wickedness and he used Lazarus to choose those who choose to live a life of righteousness.  Hades is used because it is the land of the dead and so very important to the main point.  In addition Hades is split between a land of torment and one of comfort where one experiences either torment of comfort according to the way they lived their life.  It also makes the point there is no hope to change your fate after death. The main point is that if an individual does not listen to the Law of Mosses then they will not listen to Jesus even after his resurrection from the dead. In verse 27-28 the rich man begs his ancestor to allow him to return as a ghost in order to warn them so they do not earn the same fate as him. In verse 29 Abraham tells him that they already have Scripture.   In verse 30 he tells Abram the Old Testament is not enough. In verse 31 Abram states if one, meaning Jesus, rises from the dead the will not be convinced if they did not listen to Mosses and the Prophets. Note: One does not rise from the dead after inheriting the kingdom of heaven. References: Luke 15:3-7(NIV) reads: Quote Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Luke 15:11-32(NIV) reads: Quote Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs.  He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!  I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’  So he got up and went to his father.   “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.  “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate.  For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” Luke 16:19-31(NIV) reads: Quote “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Kerwin! What are you saying then? That Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable?
I believe that it is a parable. You go way out in believing that Humans are Ghost's. There is no Scripture what soever to proof that….
Just because Luke 15 tells the reader that it is a parable, does not mean now that Larazus and the rich man is not. It cannot be taken literal, because there are no Ghosts. There is no Hell fire only the Lake of Fire which will happen at the end of the Millennium. The first resurrection wi
ll be for those Saints and the multitude that stand in front of the Throne and worship God day and nifgt Rev.7
All will sleep in their graves until then. There are again NO GHOSTS, That is in your mind your imagination and not a fact, no Scripture says so…..
Tell me Kerwin, don't you believe in the New Covenant in Christs Blood? You say a lot here, but you sound so confusing to me, in one way you say that Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable and in another way you say it is…. What do you believe? if you do believe it is a parable then what sense was there in bringing all this up? and of course there will be those that do not listen even when you show them in black and white…but there are also those that will……I do want an input about what you think about this. But IMO we need to make those that read all this understand what we are really saying….I am sorry I just can't understand what you really mean about this…. Please explain it…..is it or is it not a parable?
Peace and Love Irene

[kerwin]

Irene,

Many scriptures state there are ghosts.  That is why the disciples of Jesus believed he was a ghost that was sent back from the grave.  It is also why he ate and allowed himself to be touched as proof he was alive and not a ghost.   As I pointed out previously, a ghost is merely the live soul of a person who has died and who has not yet been clothed with their spiritual flesh.

I am stating that Jesus used an accurate portrayal of Sheol as the background of his teaching story.  The story itself may or may not be fictional as that is irrelevant to its teaching purpose.  It is a parable for it is a story told to teach one or more lessons.

Sheol is merely a waiting cell until judgment day.     It is a place of torment for the wicked and comfort for the righteous.

I do not know if there is hellfire outside of the lake of fire.

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin……….There exits no such thing as Ghosts, there never was brother, there is only two states of man he is either dead or alive, nothing in between, He can be considered to sleep (BECAUSE GOD HOLDS HIS LIFE IN HIS HANDS)(“the spirit returns back to him who gave it”) So his final destiny is in the hands of GOD and it is not over until it is over and that is all up to GOD Alone. If God choses to leave a person in the dead state forever then that is it for him he will no longer exist he has perished Just as he did when he died. “when a man dies his thoughts “PARISH”. That is it for him his body corrupts in the grave his spirit goes back to GOD who gave Spirit in the first place and he ceases to be. That is why Jesus said GOD could destory us (IN THE GRAVE) He simply can just leave us there in that state and we are gone forever. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2011,09:57)

Irene, Many scriptures state there are ghosts.  That is why the disciples of Jesus believed he was a ghost that was sent back from the grave.  It is also why he ate and allowed himself to be touched as proof he was alive and not a ghost.   As I pointed out previously, a ghost is merely the live soul of a person who has died and who has not yet been clothed with their spiritual flesh. I am stating that Jesus used an accurate portrayal of Sheol as the background of his teaching story.  The story itself may or may not be fictional as that is irrelevant to its teaching purpose.  It is a parable for it is a story told to teach one or more lessons. Sheol is merely a waiting cell until judgment day.     It is a place of torment for the wicked and comfort for the righteous. I do not know if there is hellfire outside of the lake of fire.

Kerwin! If you know of a Scripture about Ghosts besides the one the Apostles seen, where is it? Second of all the Apostles seen a Ghost, but nowhere does it states it was Jesus. All that are dead are still sleeping in their graves, Scriptures say so….

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

And the Spirit of man goes back to God, here I agree with Gene…
Ghosts are Demons that at times parade themselves as Humans. They do scare people, that is what they want…And the Apostles were scared…
Peace Irene

[Baker]

Now lets go on with the story

WHAT DID JESUS SAY?

Mat 5:5 Blessed [are] the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Who are the meek? All those who have the attitude of the beggar. Only if your name is written in the book of life. Does this parable show that the rich man's name will not be found in the book of life?

What do you believe? Who is the meek??? Who will be written in the book of life???

Peace and Love Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2011,04:46)

To all, You should consider that parables are not based on a fictional environment but rather on one the listener can emphasize with.  You see this with both the parable of the wayward son in Luke 15:11-32 and with the parable of the lost sheep in Luke 15:3-7.   This is also the case with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus as the Jewish listeners were well aware of the teaching of Sheol; which is translated as Hades in Greek and Grave in English.     Jesus used this setting as well as the rich man and Lazarus for specific reasons.  He used the rich man to represent anyone who chooses to live a life of wickedness and he used Lazarus to choose those who choose to live a life of righteousness.  Hades is used because it is the land of the dead and so very important to the main point.  In addition Hades is split between a land of torment and one of comfort where one experiences either torment of comfort according to the way they lived their life.  It also makes the point there is no hope to change your fate after death. The main point is that if an individual does not listen to the Law of Mosses then they will not listen to Jesus even after his resurrection from the dead. In verse 27-28 the rich man begs his ancestor to allow him to return as a ghost in order to warn them so they do not earn the same fate as him. In verse 29 Abraham tells him that they already have Scripture.   In verse 30 he tells Abram the Old Testament is not enough. In verse 31 Abram states if one, meaning Jesus, rises from the dead the will not be convinced if they did not listen to Mosses and the Prophets. Note: One does not rise from the dead after inheriting the kingdom of heaven. References: Luke 15:3-7(NIV) reads: Quote Then Jesus told them this parable: “Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. Then he calls his friends and neighbors together and says, ‘Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep.’ I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent. Luke 15:11-32(NIV) reads: Quote Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them. “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs.  He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything. “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death!  I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’  So he got up and went to his father.   “But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.  “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’ “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate.  For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate. “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’ “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’ “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’” Luke 16:19-31(NIV) reads: Quote “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’ “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Kerwin

Pr 1:2 To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding;
Pr 1:3 To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity;
Pr 1:4 To give subtlety to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion.
Pr 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Pr 1:6 To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings.
Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the be
ginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

this is good advise

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 16 2011,06:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2011,16:52) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 15 2011,20:04) Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's  You right, however that is not were the story ends.  As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes.  And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped.  Now lets go on with the story… Luk 16:22   And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;   Luk 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.   it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made.  First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.   Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:”  I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did.  Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.  What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead. 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   Jhn 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.   How is this to be understood?  Like in Luke 16:23?  Who is there among us that is good? Mat 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.   Act 3:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.   Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will. Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us.  It is how we live now that matters.  You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you.  You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same. this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love.  He could not say:” I am sorry Father.”  He could not humble himself. The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life.  His reward is eternal life.  Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise. Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post…. Peace and Loven Irene Irene I do not believe that the trumpet will be heard in the 1000years sabbath of Christ because all present in the sabbath will have already accepted Christ and his father. this is why they are in the first resurrection and not in the second. Pierre Pierre!  what about all those poor aborted Babies, that did nothing wrong.  Or don't you believe that life begins at conception?  And all those, that never had a chance, that died in the Old Test. times, they will get the lake of fire?  Well I believe in a merciful God.  i don't know for sure, but neither do you….And only the Saints who died for Christ and the multitude that stand in front of Gods Throne and worship Him day and night, they that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb in will be in the first resurrection. Rev 7:11   And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,   Rev 7:12   Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.   Rev 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?   Rev 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.   These will reign with Christ a thousand years…..Not those that I mentioned above…. Peace Irene

Irene

it says in revelation 20 that Satan will be released for a short time,right why is that ??it is for all the ones who will be resurrected in the second resurrection this is the resurrection of judgment ,and wen that is done ONE HOUR, that is what time the ten king have with Satan but if one day is 1000 years so one hour could be 40 years or so,

this is enough time for all to be accountable by themselves and be judged,remember the first resurrection will all be priests to serve God purpose ,

Pierre

[Baker]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2011,13:34)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 16 2011,06:41) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2011,16:52) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 15 2011,20:04) Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's  You right, however that is not were the story ends.  As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes.  And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped.  Now lets go on with the story… Luk 16:22   And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;   Luk 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.   it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made.  First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.   Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:”  I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did.  Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.  What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead. 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   Jhn 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.   How is this to be understood?  Like in Luke 16:23?  Who is there among us that is good? Mat 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.   Act 3:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.   Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will. Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us.  It is how we live now that matters.  You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you.  You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same. this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love.  He could not say:” I am sorry Father.”  He could not humble himself. The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life.  His reward is eternal life.  Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise. Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post…. Peace and Loven Irene Irene I do not believe that the trumpet will be heard in the 1000years sabbath of Christ because all present in the sabbath will have already accepted Christ and his father. this is why they are in the first resurrection and not in the second. Pierre Pierre!  what about all those poor aborted Babies, that did nothing wrong.  Or don't you believe that life begins at conception?  And all those, that never had a chance, that died in the Old Test. times, they will get the lake of fire?  Well I believe in a merciful God.  i don't know for sure, but neither do you….And only the Saints who died for Christ and the multitude that stand in front of Gods Throne and worship Him day and night, they that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb in will be in the first resurrection. Rev 7:11   And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,   Rev 7:12   Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.   Rev 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?   Rev 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.   These will reign with Christ a thousand years…..Not those that I mentioned above…. Peace Irene Irene it says in revelation 20 that Satan will be released for a short time,right why is that ??it is for all the ones who will be resurrected in the second resurrection this is the resurrection of judgment ,and wen that is done ONE HOUR, that is what time the ten king have with Satan but if one day is 1000 years so one hour could be 40 years or so, this is enough time for all to be accountable by themselves and be judged,remember the first resurrection will all be priests to serve God purpose , Pierre

What does this scripture mean?

Isa 65:20 ¶ There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,08:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 17 2011,13:34) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 16 2011,06:41) Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 15 2011,16:52) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 15 2011,20:04) Pierre and Istari! Thank you both for your reply's  You right, however that is not were the story ends.  As far as Africa is concerned, We give from our Taxes.  And I had once given to an Organization, but when I found out how little went to those who really needed it, I stopped.  Now lets go on with the story… Luk 16:22   And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;   Luk 16:23   And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.   it is in those two verses were the wrong assumption are being made.  First, when you die, you don't go anywhere except in your grave.   Second we are all sinners, including this beggar. We all need a chance to say:”  I am sorry God, please forgive me!” We all have to repent.This parable does not say whether the rich man or the beggar did.  Otherwise could we not assume that being poor gets you to heaven, and if you rich you end uop in hell.  What has been oveerlooked or ignored, is the fact that there is a resurrection from the dead. 1Cr 15:22   For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.   Jhn 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, Jhn 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.   How is this to be understood?  Like in Luke 16:23?  Who is there among us that is good? Mat 19:17   And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.   Act 3:23   And it shall come to pass, [that] every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.   Georg thinks that this will happen during the NMillenium, All those that never heard of Jesus will. Here is the other half of the parable that Jesus is trying to teach us.  It is how we live now that matters.  You can become so conceited, so proud, so selfish that all that matters is you.  You will be resurrected the same as you were when you died; you will think the same, you will act the same; your attitudes will not have changed while you were in your grave; and you will want to do the same. this is what happend to the rich man he could not adjust to the new life, he could not learn how to care, he could not learn to love.  He could not say:” I am sorry Father.”  He could not humble himself. The beggar on the other hand had been humble all of his life.  His reward is eternal life.  Being in the bosom of Abrahams pictures paradise. Next I will say what Jesus says about being humble……my next post…. Peace and Loven Irene Irene I do not believe that the trumpet will be heard in the 1000years sabbath of Christ because all present in the sabbath will have already accepted Christ and his father. this is why they are in the first resurrection and not in the second. Pierre Pierre!  what about all those poor aborted Babies, that did nothing wrong.  Or don't you believe that life begins at conception?  And all those, that never had a chance, that died in the Old Test. times, they will get the lake of fire?  Well I believe in a merciful God.  i don't know for sure, but neither do you….And only the Saints who died for Christ and the multitude that stand in front of Gods Throne and worship Him day and night, they that have washed their robes in the blood of the Lamb in will be in the first resurrection. Rev 7:11   And all the angels stood round about the throne, and [about] the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,   Rev 7:12   Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, [be] unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.   Rev 7:13   And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?   Rev 7:14   And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.   These will reign with Christ a thousand years…..Not those that I mentioned above…. Peace Irene Irene it says in revelation 20 that Satan will be released for a short time,right why is that ??it is for all the ones who will be resurrected in the second resurrection this is the resurrection of judgment ,and wen that is done ONE HOUR, that is what time the ten king have with Satan but if one day is 1000 years so one hour could be 40 years or so, this is enough time for all to be accountable by themselves and be judged,remember the first resurrection will all be priests to serve God purpose , Pierre What does this scripture mean? Isa 65:20 ¶ There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner [being] an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Irene

this is a quote from Isa 65;20,fromLXX version,
17 For there shall be a new heaven and a new earth: and they shall not at all remember the former, neither shall they at all come into their mind. 18 But they shall find in her joy and exultation; for, behold, I make Jerusalem a rejoicing, and my people a joy. 19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and will be glad in my people: and there shall no more be heard in her the voice of weeping, or the voice of crying. 20 Neither shall there be there any more a child that dies untimely, or an old man who shall not complete his time: for the youth shall be a hundred years old, and the sinner who dies at a hundred years shall also be accursed: 21 and they shall build houses, and themselves shall dwell in them; and they shall plant vineyards, and themselves shall eat the fruit thereof. 22 They shall by no means build, and others inhabit; and they shall by no means plant, and others eat: for as the days of the tree of life shall be the days of my people, they shall long enjoy the fruits of their labours. 23 My chosen shall not toil in vain, neither shall they beget children to be cursed; for they are a seed blessed of God, and their offspring with them.

this seems to be after the new heaven and the new earth ,so after the final judgment wen all is of God and in God,

all wicketness and Satan would have been disposed of.

Pierre

[Baker]

No, that is what will happen during the Millennium.  Satan will be loosed to test those that were born in the Millennium.  Many will follow Satan into to the Lake of fire.  After the white Throne judgment when Jesus has put everything under His feet, He will give the Kingdom back to God so all can be all in  all.

1Cr 15:27   For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.  

1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.  

Once Jesus has taught only the truth in the Millennium, Satan willl be loosed and test all those that were born at that time.  Many will follow into the Lake of Fire.  Along with Anti-Christ, Satan, His Demon and all wicked men….They will burn up……
Only then we will be able to say

1Cr 15:55   O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?  

1Cr 15:56   The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.  

1Cr 15:57   But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  

1Cr 15:58   Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.  

Peace Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 18 2011,13:46)

No, that is what will happen during the Millennium.  Satan will be loosed to test those that were born in the Millennium.  Many will follow Satan into to the Lake of fire.  After the white Throne judgment when Jesus has put everything under His feet, He will give the Kingdom back to God so all can be all in  all. 1Cr 15:27   For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.   1Cr 15:28   And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.   Once Jesus has taught only the truth in the Millennium, Satan willl be loosed and test all those that were born at that time.  Many will follow into the Lake of Fire.  Along with Anti-Christ, Satan, His Demon and all wicked men….They will burn up…… Only then we will be able to say 1Cr 15:55   O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?   1Cr 15:56   The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.   1Cr 15:57   But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.   1Cr 15:58   Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.   Peace Irene

Irene

I have to disagree with you ;Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

1Cr 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord

1Cr 15:57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

1Cr 15:55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband

for those reasons I do not share the view that in the milenium there will be unbelievers,only believers and much work as to be done before the second resurrection take place,this is the new godly nation and peace well needed

Pierre

[Author]

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