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Quote (carmel @ Sep. 14 2011,02:36) I HAVE EVERY RESPECT IN ALL THE REST,BUT KJV one of the oldest and I prefer whenever there is LORD remain LORD and whenever ther’s GOD remains GOD not make use of JEHOVAH the way translators feel like to please their own passion. One of the oldest based on newer manuscripts.
The Dead Sea Scrolls are older and modern translations use them among others.Also, the KJV includes verses that are not scripture such as the Comma Johanneum.
all
what is the “COMMA JOHANNEUM” ?
Comma Johanneum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Comma Johanneum is a comma (a short clause) contained in most translations of the First Epistle of John published from 1522 until the latter part of the nineteenth century, owing to the widespread use of the third edition of the Textus Receptus (TR) as the sole source for translation. In translations containing the clause, such as the King James Version, 1 John 5:7–8 reads as follows (with the Comma in bold print):
5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”
The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts, nor in the passage as quoted by many of the early Church Fathers. The words apparently crept into the Latin text of the New Testament during the Middle Ages, “[possibly] as one of those medieval glosses but were then written into the text itself by a careless copyist. Erasmus omitted them from his first edition; but when a storm of protest arose because the omission seemed to threaten the doctrine of the Trinity, he put them back in the third and later editions, whence they also came into the Textus Receptus, 'the received text'.”[1] Although many traditional Bible translations, most notably the Authorized King James Version (KJV), contain the insertion, modern Bible translations such as the New International Version (NIV), the New American Standard Bible (NASB), the English Standard Version (ESV), the New Revised Standard Version (NRSV) and others tend to either omit the Comma entirely, or relegate it to the footnotes. The official Latin text of the Catholic Church (a revision of the Vulgate) also excludes it.[2]
Contents [hide]
1 Origins
2 Erasmus and the Textus Receptus
3 Modern views
4 Manuscript evidence
5 Grammar argument
6 See also
7 References
8 External links
[edit]OriginsExcerpt from Codex Sinaiticus including 1 John 5:7–9. It lacks the Comma Johanneum. The purple-coloured text says: “There are three witness bearers, the Spirit and the water and the blood”.
Several early sources which one might expect to include the Comma Johanneum in fact omit it. For example, although Clement of Alexandria (c. 200) places a strong emphasis on the Trinity, his quotation of 1 John 5:8 does not include the Comma.[3] Tertullian, in his Against Praxeas (c. 210), supports a Trinitarian view by quoting John 10:30. Jerome's extant writings from the period 380 to 420 give no evidence that he was aware of the Comma's existence.[4] (Many Vulgate manuscripts, including the Codex Fuldensis, the earliest extant Vulgate manuscript, produced under Victor of Capua around 546, contain a copy of the Prologue to the Canonical Epistles written in the first-person style of Jerome. This Prologue accuses unfaithful translators of deliberately omitting the verse. Yet the Codex's version of 1 John, written by the same scribe, omits the verse, an unusual discordance. In the late 1600s, during the early stages of the debate on the verse, a theory was developed that this Prologue was spurious (a forgery) and not actually written by Jerome. At the time the forgery theory became popular the earliest known Vulgate manuscript with the Prologue was about three centuries later than Fuldensis, dated around the 800s. The knowledge of the Prologue in Codex Fuldensis only came forth in the late 1800s. )
The earliest reference to what might be the Comma appears by the 3rd-century Church father Cyprian (died 258), who in Treatise I section 6[5] quoted John 10:30 against heretics who denied the Trinity and added: “Again it is written of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 'And these three are one.'”[4][6] Daniel B. Wallace notes that although Cyprian uses 1 John to argue for the Trinity, he appeals to this as an allusion via the three witnesses—”written of”—rather than by quoting a proof-text—”written that”. In noting this, Wallace is following the current standard critical editions of the New Testament (NA27 and UBS4) which consider Cyprian a witness against the Comma. They would not do this were they to think him to have quoted it. So even though some still think that Cyprian referred to the passage, the fact that other theologians such as Athanasius of Alexandria and Sabellius and Origen never quoted or referred to that passage is one reason why even many Trinitarians later on also considered the text spurious, and not to have been part of the original text.
The first work to quote the Comma Johanneum as an actual part of the Epistle's text appears to be the 4th century Latin homily Liber Apologeticus, probably written by Priscillian of Ávila (died 385), or his close follower Bishop Instantius. Wallace notes:
“Apparently the gloss arose when the original passage was understood to symbolize the Trinity (through the mention of three witnesses: the Spirit, the water, and the blood), an interpretation that may have been written first as a marginal note that afterwards found its way into the text.”[6]
This part of the homily apparently then became worked into copies of the Latin Vulgate roughly around the year 800. It was subsequently back-translated into the Greek, but only eight of the thousands of Greek New Testament manuscripts currently extant contain it. The oldest known occurrence appears to be a later addition to a 10th century manuscript now in the Bodleian Library, the exact date of the addition not known; in this manuscript, the Comma is a variant reading offered as an alternative to the main text. The other seven sources date to the sixteenth century or later, and four of the seven are hand-written in the manuscript margins. In one manuscript, back-translated into Greek from the Vulgate, the phrase “and these three are one” is not present.[7]Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2011,20:31) Erasmus omitted them from his first edition; but when a storm of protest arose because the omission seemed to threaten the doctrine of the Trinity, he put them back in the third and later editions…………… 
Exactly how solid is a scriptural doctrine that can be threatened by the removal of words that weren't even in the scriptures to start with? 
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 14 2011,21:16) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 13 2011,20:31) Erasmus omitted them from his first edition; but when a storm of protest arose because the omission seemed to threaten the doctrine of the Trinity, he put them back in the third and later editions…………… Exactly how solid is a scriptural doctrine that can be threatened by the removal of words that weren't even in the scriptures to start with?
Mikeyeah,and they are the majority to believe in the trinity ,what are they thinking ??>
Pierre
Quote
[3] Tertullian, in his Against Praxeas (c. 210), supports a Trinitarian view by quoting John 10:30. Jerome's extant writings from the period 380 to 420 give no evidence that he was aware of the Comma's existence.[Pierre! When did Tertulllian say this?
Irene
Quote
Quote (carmel @ Sep. 14 2011,02:36)
I HAVE EVERY RESPECT IN ALL THE REST,BUT KJV one of the oldest and I prefer whenever there is LORD remain LORD and whenever ther’s GOD remains GOD not make use of JEHOVAH the way translators feel like to please their own passion.
t8 Carmel does not understand why the translators used LORD in all capital letters…. The Translators used LORD because they didn't want to take Gods Word in vain….that is what it says in the footnotes of our Ryie Study Bible…..also about the Comma of Johanneum Mr. Armstrong told us in 1985, that Scripture in John 5:7-8 was added and I marked that in my KJV Bible…..There is also a misunderstanding when Jesus died….Jesus did not die on Friday….He died on Wednesday before Sundown…. The next day was an Annual Holy Day, the Days of Unleavened Bread, and the first day always was a High Day…. So they had to hurry up, that all would die that day on the cross….. So one of the Soldiers took a sword and lanced Jesus side to make sure He was dead….
The Scripture in Math. 12:40 is not a mistake…..Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth….
IreneQuote (Pastry @ Oct. 08 2011,21:31) Quote
[3] Tertullian, in his Against Praxeas (c. 210), supports a Trinitarian view by quoting John 10:30. Jerome's extant writings from the period 380 to 420 give no evidence that he was aware of the Comma's existence.[Pierre! When did Tertulllian say this?
Irene
Irenesay what ??
Hi All! I found this on the Internet, and thought it interesting and somewhat funny……I didn't kn0pw whee else to put it, so if it is in a wrong place t8, its up to you to put it somewhere else….Irene
Quotations about God
Any fool can count the seeds in an apple. Only God can count all the apples in one seed. ~Robert H. Schuller
Every evening I turn my worries over to God. He's going to be up all night anyway. ~Mary C. Crowley
God loves each of us as if there were only one of us. ~St. Augustine
Young man, young man, your arm's too short to box with God. ~James Weldon Johnson
God understands our prayers even when we can't find the words to say them. ~Author Unknown
What we are is God's gift to us. What we become is our gift to God. ~Eleanor Powell
A man with God is always in the majority. ~John Knox
Certain thoughts are prayers. There are moments when, whatever be the attitude of the body, the soul is on its knees. ~Victor Hugo
You can tell the size of your God by looking at the size of your worry list. The longer your list, the smaller your God. ~Author Unknown
Maybe the atheist cannot find God for the same reason a thief cannot find a policeman. ~Author Unknown
If God had wanted to be a big secret, He would not have created babbling brooks and whispering pines. ~Robert Brault, http://www.robertbrault.com
I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for His reputation if He didn't. ~Jules Renard
A man can no more diminish God's glory by refusing to worship Him than a lunatic can put out the sun by scribbling the word, 'darkness' on the walls of his cell. ~C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
The soul can split the sky in two and let the face of God shine through. ~Edna St. Vincent Millay
God is not a cosmic bellboy for whom we can press a button to get things done. ~Harry Emerson Fosdick
The feeling remains that God is on the journey, too. ~Teresa of Avila
Once one has seen God, what is the remedy? ~Sylvia Plath, “Mystic”As the poet said, “Only God can make a tree” – probably because it's so hard to figure out how to get the bark on. ~Woody Allen
Clearly, God is a Democrat. ~Patrick Caddell
God: The most popular scapegoat for our sins. ~Mark Twain
But I always think that the best way to know God is to love many things. ~Vincent van Gogh, Dear Theo: An Autobiography of Vincent van Gogh, 1937
There is more, and if t8 thinks thos is the right place to be, I will post more of what He said….
How tired God must be of guilt and loneliness, for that is all we ever bring to Him. ~Mignon McLaughlin, The Neurotic's Notebook, 1960
Posted: Oct. 08 2011,15:32 QUOTE
Quote (Pastry @ Oct. 08 2011,21:31)
Quote[3] Tertullian, in his Against Praxeas (c. 210), supports a Trinitarian view by quoting John 10:30. Jerome's extant writings from the period 380 to 420 give no evidence that he was aware of the Comma's existence.[
Pierre! When did Tertulllian say this?
Irene
Irene
say what ??
What did Tertullian support, and when? The trinity?Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,15:43) Irene go to feedback /rules….then chatroom.. then go to quotes
Pierre, I know who Tertullian is, I wanted you to tell me…..because of Your Article which you presented…..IreneQuote (Pastry @ Oct. 08 2011,22:55) Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 08 2011,15:43) Irene go to feedback /rules….then chatroom.. then go to quotes
Pierre, I know who Tertullian is, I wanted you to tell me…..because of Your Article which you presented…..Irene
IreneI got that article in Wikipedia ency
just go and put the name in ,there is lost more to read there
Pierre
Hi,
The catholics ascribe infallibility to their pope while other sects do so towards the KJV.
It gives an aura of power to their teachers.
All reliance on man is folly.bibles are based on manuscript choices made by men and are influenced by bias.
The NIV adds JESUS to Jn12.43
Seek the AUTHOR and you will find.
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