Kerwin

[NickHassan]

Hi SF,
In the first person?
He was quoting scripture.
He would not tempt God by casting himself down.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 28 2010,21:13)

Hi SF, In the first person? He was quoting scripture. He would not tempt God by casting himself down.

You might have point there =)

[Arnold]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 28 2010,18:47)

Quote (Arnold @ May 27 2010,13:38) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,06:14) Hey kerwin, Intresting you should add more from that discussion we had about beliefs into this thread as well. I also believe that Jesus was compeltly Human, yet God in the very same time. Son Of Man/ Son of God. Fully human, a Perfect Human, the second Adam, yet had the Character of God, his works, his ethics, his love. much love bro! When Jesus was a man He had emptied Himself of all He was in Heaven and became like a Servant.  He left behind what He was that is what Phillipaians 22:5 tells us.  He was just like us in every way except that He never sinned…. Irene And was born out of a virgen. And knew the Father that no one has ever seen, but he has seen him. Yet a Man, who disappeared into crowds when they wanted to kill him.  plus etc. a Man who defeated death by resurrecting A Man who should be Dead, Who Still lives… The first amongst the Dead. Of course just a Man, like anyone of us.

Simple Forgiven! Jesus not only was born in the flesh, He also was the firstborn of all creation. And was in Heaven with His Father…
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
John 1:1 and in verse 14 it shows you that He became flesh.
Also
Rev. 19:13and verse 16 check it out. I do not have enough time right now to write it all out for you.
And in John 17:5 He tells His father that He wants to go back where He was before…
Check out these Scriptures to
John 6:38-40
John 3:17
John 3:17
John 8:58
Philippians 2:5 shows us that He emptied Himself and became like a Servant….
Peace and Love to you, Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Arnold @ May 29 2010,07:53)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 28 2010,18:47) Quote (Arnold @ May 27 2010,13:38) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,06:14) Hey kerwin, Intresting you should add more from that discussion we had about beliefs into this thread as well. I also believe that Jesus was compeltly Human, yet God in the very same time. Son Of Man/ Son of God. Fully human, a Perfect Human, the second Adam, yet had the Character of God, his works, his ethics, his love. much love bro! When Jesus was a man He had emptied Himself of all He was in Heaven and became like a Servant.  He left behind what He was that is what Phillipaians 22:5 tells us.  He was just like us in every way except that He never sinned…. Irene And was born out of a virgen. And knew the Father that no one has ever seen, but he has seen him. Yet a Man, who disappeared into crowds when they wanted to kill him.  plus etc. a Man who defeated death by resurrecting A Man who should be Dead, Who Still lives… The first amongst the Dead. Of course just a Man, like anyone of us. Simple Forgiven!   Jesus not only was born in the flesh, He also was the firstborn of all creation. And was in Heaven with His Father… Col. 1:15-17 Rev. 3:14 John  1:1 and in verse 14 it shows you that He became flesh. Also Rev. 19:13and verse 16 check it  out.  I do not have enough time right now to write it all out for you. And in John 17:5 He tells His father that He wants to go back where He was before… Check out these Scriptures to John 6:38-40 John 3:17 John 3:17 John 8:58 Philippians 2:5 shows us that He emptied Himself and became like a Servant…. Peace and Love to you, Irene

Observation:
First born all Creation.
Yet John 1:1 states that he is the Word.
Yet all creation did not take place until the First day.
In what Role did the Son take in Heaven if he was with the Father.
Second: Whats servitude is there to become Man? into the likness of Man? Is Jesus not man? If he became a servant what was he before?

Peace and love to you too sister,

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Does Jn1.1 say that?
The Lord is the Spirit.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 30 2010,16:33)

Hi T, Does Jn1.1 say that? The Lord is the Spirit.

nick

your answer to your question is NO

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was WITH God in the beginning.

we know that the word became Christ,but Christ is not the holy spirit, or the spirit.

the spirit is the power that God gives to whom he want to give it.

but the spirit can also be the plan or the description of the understanding of that plan.

the expression the Holy spirit is only applied to God spirit because he is Holy and all things coming from him is holy ,either the spirit ,word,knowledge ,understanding,wisdom,powers,miracles,and all of his creation.

The Lord is the Spirit = the Lord is the Power
Pierre

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
The word BECAME Jesus?
Jesus manifested the word of God's Spirit.
In that way he WAS the Word of God and feeding on him gave life.[Jn6]

[Arnold]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2010,16:06)

Hi T, The word BECAME Jesus? Jesus manifested the word of God's Spirit. In that way he WAS the Word of God and feeding on him gave life.[Jn6]

Nick! When you read in Rev. 19:3 and verse 16 clear that Jesus was the Word that became flesh……He was a Spirit being, before He emptied Himself and became like a Servant Phil 2:5.
To be in Heaven with His Father He had to be a Spirit Being, because flesh and blood cannot enter into the kingdom of God. He was created in the likeness of His Father. Firstborn of all creation and then His Father gave Him to right to create all. John1:3 and in verse 16 He became flesh……
John 8:58
Irene

[kerwin]

Irene,

Are you sure you gave the correct address for the scriptures you are using for support from Revelations. Chapter 19 verse 3 sounds like it is speaking of Babylon the Whore and its destruction and 16 is basically stating Jesus in King of everything in heaven and on earth.  Neither support what you are saying.

I was curious as this topic is off topic from that of the topic which is what I believe.  To get it back on topic I will state my beliefs on the subject.

I believe that Jesus is a human being exactly like you and me except he had complete faith in God and thus was given the spirit of holiness by God.  Even then God tested him to mature that faith.  After his death and resurrection he bore the physical flesh we will upon resurrection though it is not the flesh of this world.  Before his conception he was a plan of God and did not exist, with the possible that his soul existed in the Seventh Heaven with the souls of other unborn human beings.

I believe this because scripture call Jesus a man both before and after his ascension to heaven.  I believe Jesus has a body similar to what we have because he proved he was not a insubstantial spirit after his resurrection and yet Paul teaches “that flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven”.

I also believe Jesus had complete faith because he did not sin even though tempted even like we and scripture declares “the righteous will live by faith”. I believe God tested Jesus because scripture he did and God does not act with a good and righteous purpose and the obvious purpose seemed for Jesus to mature in his faith.  I am not completely confident that the purpose I ascribed for God is correct.

I have inserted the possibility of the preexistence of the soul of unborn human children in the Seventh Heaven as that is a Jewish teaching consistent with Paul's teaching about the Third Heaven and one I do not know the scriptural argument to either support or oppose.

[mikeboll64]

Hi All,

This is Kerwin's post, so it's his choice IMO, but I think this is not the place for individual discussions. I think all questions should be posed in a “What do you think, Kerwin?” or “How do you understand this scripture, Kerwin?” manner.

Maybe I'm wrong? “What do you think, Kerwin?”

peace and love,
mike

[Arnold]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 30 2010,16:18)

Quote (Arnold @ May 29 2010,07:53) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 28 2010,18:47) Quote (Arnold @ May 27 2010,13:38) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 27 2010,06:14) Hey kerwin, Intresting you should add more from that discussion we had about beliefs into this thread as well. I also believe that Jesus was compeltly Human, yet God in the very same time. Son Of Man/ Son of God. Fully human, a Perfect Human, the second Adam, yet had the Character of God, his works, his ethics, his love. much love bro! When Jesus was a man He had emptied Himself of all He was in Heaven and became like a Servant.  He left behind what He was that is what Phillipaians 22:5 tells us.  He was just like us in every way except that He never sinned…. Irene And was born out of a virgen. And knew the Father that no one has ever seen, but he has seen him. Yet a Man, who disappeared into crowds when they wanted to kill him.  plus etc. a Man who defeated death by resurrecting A Man who should be Dead, Who Still lives… The first amongst the Dead. Of course just a Man, like anyone of us. Simple Forgiven!   Jesus not only was born in the flesh, He also was the firstborn of all creation. And was in Heaven with His Father… Col. 1:15-17 Rev. 3:14 John  1:1 and in verse 14 it shows you that He became flesh. Also Rev. 19:13and verse 16 check it  out.  I do not have enough time right now to write it all out for you. And in John 17:5 He tells His father that He wants to go back where He was before… Check out these Scriptures to John 6:38-40 John 3:17 John 3:17 John 8:58 Philippians 2:5 shows us that He emptied Himself and became like a Servant…. Peace and Love to you, Irene Observation: First born all Creation. Yet John 1:1 states that he is the Word. Yet all creation did not take place until the First day. In what Role did the Son take in Heaven if he was with the Father.   Second: Whats servitude is there to become Man? into the likness of Man? Is Jesus not man? If he became a servant what was he before? Peace and love to you too sister,

No that is not so.  Jesus was the firstborn, meaning that He came before all.  Then through Jesus all was created.  By the power of our Heavenly Father Jehovah God.  There are like I said clear Scriptures that tell us that.
John 1:1 In the Beginning there was the Word…..and in verse 16 He became flesh.  We know that Jesus is the God that became flesh the Son of God……He is the mighty God while the Father is the Almighty God.  Jehovah God called Jesus His Son God in Hebrew 1:8.
In Philippians 2:5 says that He emptied Himself and became like a Servant…. to die for us, so we can live….as a man….to be with the Father He had to be a Spirit Being…. He was created in His Fathers image…. and the Father is a Spirit Being. If we know that some of the Angels can tranform themself into a Human Form ,w what makes you thonk that Jesus could not? I like to tell you a story. When our Granddaughter was 2 years old they lived in an Apartment on the second floor. It had a Balcony with a Grill on it. Tifffany went on top of the Grill and jumped dpwn. Cindy our Daughter, just seen Hert jump down and screamed. She ran down as fast as She could. In the mean time some neighbor heard Her and run towards Tiffany on the ground. They saw two man wa,king away from Her and nobody knew who they were. Cindy took Tiffany to the Hospital and they found out that there was not a cratch on Her. No blue marks nothing… We believe that those two man were Angels who cought Tiffany. Incredible tht there was no scratch on Her. Only a catch from someone would have saved Tiffany. If you would do so would you walk away? No nobody would unless the were Angels…..
If you have any doubt that the Word is not Jesus then look at Rev. 19:13and verse 16
John in 6:38 Jesus said this:” “For I have come down from Heaven not to do My will. but the will of Him who sent Me..,.
then He goes on to tell us what that will is…
Col 1:15 says that He is the firstborn of all creation and in verse 16 it tells us that by Him all was made.  Also in Genesis it says us and our.  Now who is us and our. Some might say that are Angels, I don't believe that because of these Scriptures that state that Jesus created all, by the power of God the Father.
One Scripture that also shows us that Jesus was in  Heaven with His Father is
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
I also like Proverbs 8:22-30  Now read this with an open mind, because so many will say this is Wisdom.  To me that makes no sense because God had always had Wisdom, why would He want to create wisdom which He had.  Also verse 30 Wisdom being a Craftsman also makes no sense.  I believe it goes along with all other Scriptures that it is Jesus that proverbs is talking about…..
Also some may say that now you have to believe in a Trinity.  I only shake my head, because I do not believe in  a trinity…..To answer you Question what was Jesus part in Heaven? Read Proverb 8
He was the Fathers delight every day….First Question Yes, Jesus was a man after He emptied Himself..And He went back to what He was before John 17:5 tells us that…..How that is done we have to wait and ask Him one day….
Peace and Love to you, Irene

[SimplyForgiven]

Irene,
Cannot respond, due to the fact that this is the wrong thread to discuss this.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 31 2010,23:50)

Hi All, This is Kerwin's post, so it's his choice IMO, but I think this is not the place for individual discussions.  I think all questions should be posed in a “What do you think, Kerwin?” or “How do you understand this scripture, Kerwin?”  manner. Maybe I'm wrong?  “What do you think, Kerwin?” peace and love, mike

That sounds like a good idea!  We have very active discussions elsewhere and it can help us work on being more organized.

Your follow student,

Kerwin

[kerwin]

Irene.

Perhaps you can continue your discussion on a thread telling us what you believe and why you believe that. I believe there will be interest in it.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[Arnold]

kerwin Sorry that was a wrong verse that I gave. It is Rev. 19:13 and 16, yes and you are right, this goes under the Preexisting tread, but I was responding to Simple F. Irene

[kerwin]

Quote (Arnold @ June 01 2010,19:49)

kerwin  Sorry that was a wrong verse that I gave.  It is Rev. 19:13 and 16, yes and you are right, this goes under the Preexisting tread, but I was responding to Simple F.  Irene

I know how it is to both make a typo and how to feel the need to make an immediate response. I would like to hear what you believe and why you believe it and I believe it would be more clear in a thread dedicated to that then one with a multitude discussing the particular issue.

Your fellow student,

Kerwin

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 28 2010,02:50)

Quote (kerwin @ May 27 2010,22:07) I wish to clarify a couple of my believes. It is tricky to differentiat temptation from actual sin when both are on the mental level, i.e. our thoughts.  I look to the temptations of Jesus as an example of what temptation is.  In those examples you see that Satan make a proposition and that Jesus then rejects that proposition.  We know that Jesus was tempted just like we are so if our thoughts merely form a proposition to sin but reject it is by fleeing from the temptation of fighting it then we do not sin.  On the other hand if we fantasize about that proposition then we sin.  As I said it is tricky to differentiate between a mental sin and a temptation as I am not covering all that is sin but merely pointing out that the proposition itself should not be confused when sin while phantasizing is sin.  I did this to warn people against calling what is not sin sin or calling what is sin temptation. According to my believes it is God doing the work so our stopping from sin is not depending on our effort but rather on the efford of God who can do anything but sin.  It is our faith that we must work on strengthening and even that comes from God.  It is therefore crucial that we want to change and that we believe God will change us.  This does not seem to happen instintanius but rather is a growing experience that may take more time in some than others.  The bottom line is that we will grow more mature if we are in Jesus the Messiah. I believe that the spirit is the driving and guiding force behind our action whether it is the spirit we are born with or it is the spirit of righteousness that those in Christ are reborn in.  Even the spirit we are born with can be renewed to a certain extent as Old Testiment testified it was for some before the New Covenant was established.  It is only through entry in the New Covenant that one recieves the sinless spirit of Jesus. I thought Jesus temptation was to Prove He was Son of God. Just like God in massah. Look up what Temptation means, sometimes it doesnt mean that you have been tempted it could mean the act of tempting.

Simply

That is exactly right.

Jesus did not have a fallen nature or old man that was prone to sin.

He said when satan came that there was nothing in him.

I do not believe that Jesus ever had an impure thought that came from within his heart.

But every man is tempted, “when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:14

Lust is sin. Jesus had no no sin or lust in him, or could not be the perfect and sinless Lamb!

Can anyone show us where Jesus had to make attonement for any sin?

Jesus was tempted by the one who did the tempting, and that was the evil one!

Blessings Keith

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So he was not a man and not born of woman?
He was tempted in all the ways we are[Heb 4.15] how?

He is an overcomer not a superman[rev3.21] and we follow him.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2010,15:49)

Hi WJ, So he was not a man and not born of woman? He was tempted in all the ways we are[Heb 4.15]  how? He is an overcomer not a superman[rev3.21] and we follow him.

NH

So you believe Jesus was tempted with every possible temptation known to man?

That would include incest, murder, rape, suicide, homosexualism, child molestation, and all kinds of unimaginable temptations known to man!

Is that what you think Hebrews means?

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Should you wish to argue with scripture go ahead but it is stronger than you.

[Author]

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