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t8,
If Ken is not able to post, why is he still able to PM? Not only is he sending me emails now but he is also sending me PM's!! I guess I shouldn't put off changing my email address! The harassment continues….
Ken,
If your still watching this thread, you gotta leave Mandy alone brother. You've made your case, leave it be.In Him
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 21 2008,20:48) Not at all Stu. I have no fear in criticism of my faith. In fact a challenge is good. Rather it is just a practical thing that non-believers not post in that category because what they have to say is completely unrelated to the topics there and will only be disruptive.
There are other forums where you are free to post about your beliefs that are more appropriate.
Simple as that. It is just about management and keeping discussions on their subjects.
You are free critique in other forums that are appropriate.
If the issue is off-topic posting it would seem that two have been singled out as guilty while others continue to ignore thread headings. I might add that mods are not exempt from this either.You assume that non-believers are incapable of posting topically, yet Towshab was the most focussed contributor here. Believers are the losers for excluding others who do not meet their hypocritical standards.
Stuart
I just checked my email and there was yet another hateful email from Ken:
From:
[Add to Address Book]To:[email protected]
Subject:Re: Bye
Date:Monday, January 21, 2008 3:35:46 PM
[View Source]
HEY BET YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT I COULD STILL READ POST HUH?FORGET IT MANDY I JUST READ YOUR POST. YOU ARE A SICK LITTLE GIRL. I HARASSED
YOU JUST LIKE I HARASSED YOU TO THE SABBATH!YOU ALWAYS STRUCK ME AS A SPOILED LITTLE RICH GIRL! REALLY!
WHATEVER HAVE A NICE TIME OVER AT THE ANTICHRIST FORUM “BOTH OF THEM” LOL!
TO CONFESS SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND NOT MEAN IT IS NOT GOOD MANDY, NOT GOOD AT
ALL! IN FACT IT'S SICK!GOOD BYE TRAITOR!
PLEASE DON'T EMAIL ME, OK?
******************************************
Ken,
I have put your email out publically because I believe you need to be exposed for the person that you are. I have asked you countless times now to leave me alone. And now I will bring the problem public for witnesses. You really need some serious help! This is my last attempt to get you to leave me alone. I want you to know that I will publically post every email you send me from now on. I hate to pull my sister's and brother's into this by having them endure your hateful messages, but I am hoping this will discourage you from harassing me any further.What a sad testimony for the Lord you have left here……
I don't think harassing someone back to Jesus is a good approach, personally. Not even the Baptists will be using it as their evangelism program of the month
.Not3 can you list Kenrch's email address in your 'killfile' (most email programs allow a list of rules on what to do with email from particular addresses, allowing automatic deleting so you don't have to read it).
Stuart
Thanks, Stu.
But I don't think I need to “kill” Ken yet! Ha! Actually, we have reconciled and things are dandy now. Mutual respect is a good thing!
to all……..> we all have a right to stand up for what we believe in, but when it gets bashing a person on what they believe, thats going to far. A good debat is a good thing it sometimes brings out points that we may not thought about before and can add to our enlightenment, I learn alot that way. We are all growing in Grace and Knowledge, this shows its a process, no one has all the truth we all learnners and i think we always will be learnning new things, so debate is good, but when it moves into personel attacks thats another thing. Ken did bring some interesting points at times, but could not handel it someone would disagree with Him. I personally at times would get involved because what He was doing to Mandy and others to try to stop His assualt on them.
t8 has been very patient with ken as far as i can tell. We all know what the fruits of the Spirit are, And putting people down and asigning them to hell fire and calling them anti-christs because they don't agree with him certainly is not one of them. Even Jesus said he hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans, but notice He didn't say He hated them did He. I think if we can all understand we are all growing in our understanding we can be more talorent with eachother. I believe t8 did what he felt he had to do, and while it is sad for all of us i don't know of any other options He had.
Peace to all………..gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 24 2008,15:01) Thanks, Stu. But I don't think I need to “kill” Ken yet! Ha! Actually, we have reconciled and things are dandy now. Mutual respect is a good thing!
I'm glad about this.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2008,00:05) To clarify my last post, I will admit to questioning whether Jesus was truly the Messiah, but by that I did not mean messiah in a general sense, but the coming David of the OT, who was never called messiah. The very few times you see that one mentioned he is either called “son of David”, “David”, or “My servant David”. The Jews did not start attaching the title Messiah to the coming David until Christians started calling Jesus the Christ, and they did this as a reactionary measure.
All the kings of Israel were anointed or consecrecated to that position of authority by God.When Jesus started his ministry he quoted Isaiah 61 which states:
Quote Isaiah 61
61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted *, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
61:2
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.Quote Ezekiel 34
34:1
And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
34:2
Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
34:3
Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
34:4
The diseased have ye not strengthened, neither have ye healed that which was sick, neither have ye bound up that which was broken, neither have ye brought again that which was driven away, neither have ye sought that which was lost; but with force and with cruelty have ye ruled them.
34:5
And they were scattered, because there is no shepherd: and they became meat to all the beasts of the field, when they were scattered.
34:6
My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
34:7
Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
34:8
As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;
34:9
Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the LORD;
34:10
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.
34:11
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
34:12
As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.
34:13
And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.
34:14
I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.
34:15
I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord GOD.
34:16
I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
34:17
And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.
34:18
Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?
34:19
And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.
34:20
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.
34:21
Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;
34:22
Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.
34:23
And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
34:24
And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.Quote (942767 @ Jan. 24 2008,17:48) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2008,00:05) To clarify my last post, I will admit to questioning whether Jesus was truly the Messiah, but by that I did not mean messiah in a general sense, but the coming David of the OT, who was never called messiah. The very few times you see that one mentioned he is either called “son of David”, “David”, or “My servant David”. The Jews did not start attaching the title Messiah to the coming David until Christians started calling Jesus the Christ, and they did this as a reactionary measure.
All the kings of Israel were anointed or consecrecated to that position of authority by God.When Jesus started his ministry he quoted Isaiah 61 which states:
Quote Isaiah 61
61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted *, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
61:2
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
He never became a king here on earth. Why would you expect Jews to even acknowledge him?The Jews (who had right hearts and knew the scriptures) would “expect” him because he had arrived on time (dan 9:25,26) and in the right place.
LUKE 3:15
“Now as the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: “May he perhaps be the Christ?””Many thought John was perhaps the Christ, because they were expecting him at that time
INDEED, they expected or thought that many PERSONAL messiahs might be the Christ, at that time. Many turned out to be false. But they were in expectation, because back then, many knew. Of course, they HAD FALSE EXPECTATIONS, because they wanted a political leader and it wasn't Jesus time.
He was pictured in two roles. The Jews focused on the one. This was their fault, not his.Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2008,22:56) The Jews (who had right hearts and knew the scriptures) would “expect” him because he had arrived on time (dan 9:25,26) and in the right place. LUKE 3:15
“Now as the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: “May he perhaps be the Christ?””Many thought John was perhaps the Christ, because they were expecting him at that time
INDEED, they expected or thought that many PERSONAL messiahs might be the Christ, at that time. Many turned out to be false. But they were in expectation, because back then, many knew. Of course, they HAD FALSE EXPECTATIONS, because they wanted a political leader and it wasn't Jesus time.
He was pictured in two roles. The Jews focused on the one. This was their fault, not his.
In Jesus' day, if you had asked about the “anointed one” (“christ”, “mashiyach”), they would likely ask “which one?”. Kings, priests, and prophets were anointed. So to say Jesus was the “anointed one” in Dan 9:26 really does not mean much, and it certainly does not match what the Jews looked for in the coming son of David.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2008,23:56) Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2008,22:56) The Jews (who had right hearts and knew the scriptures) would “expect” him because he had arrived on time (dan 9:25,26) and in the right place. LUKE 3:15
“Now as the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: “May he perhaps be the Christ?””Many thought John was perhaps the Christ, because they were expecting him at that time
INDEED, they expected or thought that many PERSONAL messiahs might be the Christ, at that time. Many turned out to be false. But they were in expectation, because back then, many knew. Of course, they HAD FALSE EXPECTATIONS, because they wanted a political leader and it wasn't Jesus time.
He was pictured in two roles. The Jews focused on the one. This was their fault, not his.
In Jesus' day, if you had asked about the “anointed one” (“christ”, “mashiyach”), they would likely ask “which one?”. Kings, priests, and prophets were anointed. So to say Jesus was the “anointed one” in Dan 9:26 really does not mean much, and it certainly does not match what the Jews looked for in the coming son of David.
Jesus does however, match the anticipated Essene Messiah.Quote (Son of Light @ Jan. 25 2008,07:26) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2008,23:56) Quote (david @ Jan. 24 2008,22:56) The Jews (who had right hearts and knew the scriptures) would “expect” him because he had arrived on time (dan 9:25,26) and in the right place. LUKE 3:15
“Now as the people were in expectation and all were reasoning in their hearts about John: “May he perhaps be the Christ?””Many thought John was perhaps the Christ, because they were expecting him at that time
INDEED, they expected or thought that many PERSONAL messiahs might be the Christ, at that time. Many turned out to be false. But they were in expectation, because back then, many knew. Of course, they HAD FALSE EXPECTATIONS, because they wanted a political leader and it wasn't Jesus time.
He was pictured in two roles. The Jews focused on the one. This was their fault, not his.
In Jesus' day, if you had asked about the “anointed one” (“christ”, “mashiyach”), they would likely ask “which one?”. Kings, priests, and prophets were anointed. So to say Jesus was the “anointed one” in Dan 9:26 really does not mean much, and it certainly does not match what the Jews looked for in the coming son of David.
Jesus does however, match the anticipated Essene Messiah.
But look at the OT usage of “messiah”(“mashiyach”). It is used 39 times, and never once associated with the coming son of David.You are probably right Kejonn, I unfortunately have not put a lot of work in trying to see if Jesus matched all the criteria for the OT prophecies. But, you know that I don't think Jesus was that “type” of messiah so I am not as concerned about matching him up with the war-king prophecies.
Well I do know that Marcion believed that “that” messiah was still to come. He called him the antichrist. He thought that Jesus was NOT the anticipated messiah of Jehovah but a messiah from the Most High. Jehovah's was still coming.
Granted Marcion was a Pauline who believed Paul was the only apostle to “get it right”. (demonstrating how throughout history it was known he had a “different” gospel)
I bring this up because I wonder where DID the idea of the antichrist come from?
From what I can tell either:
1) It was viewed as a brand new revelation to the apostles.
or
2) It was viewed as the Pharisee Messiah who was coming but was bad.
Anyone have an idea on the origin of the antichrist??? Is it a new revelation of the apostles or does it have an older president?
Possible view points of the identity of antichrist, I have read from early christian groups:
1) It was viewed as the fallen principalities becoming men “literally” one becoming Nero, who will then rise again since Nero died.
2) Azazel (book of enoch) rising forth out of the bottomless pit incarnated as a man.
3) The pharisee messiah was coming but was actually a bad warmongerer.
4) A bad man used as a satan's earthly tool to destroy christians.
Yes, it is not necessary to match Jesus up to the coming son of David that the Jews expected. That is why he was not — and is still not — accepted by most of them. Jewish Christianity died with James and his fellows. Roman Christianity is what we have today.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 25 2008,15:46) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 24 2008,17:48) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 22 2008,00:05) To clarify my last post, I will admit to questioning whether Jesus was truly the Messiah, but by that I did not mean messiah in a general sense, but the coming David of the OT, who was never called messiah. The very few times you see that one mentioned he is either called “son of David”, “David”, or “My servant David”. The Jews did not start attaching the title Messiah to the coming David until Christians started calling Jesus the Christ, and they did this as a reactionary measure.
All the kings of Israel were anointed or consecrecated to that position of authority by God.When Jesus started his ministry he quoted Isaiah 61 which states:
Quote Isaiah 61
61:1
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted *, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
61:2
To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
61:3
To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
He never became a king here on earth. Why would you expect Jews to even acknowledge him?
Hi Kj:Jesus, in his ministry here on earth, told those who would hear who he was and God confirmed what he was saying with miracles such as opening the eyes of a man who was born blind.
Quote 29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is. 30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes. 31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. 32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. 33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing. He was not the king that many of the Jews expected because they were expecting a warrior like person like David, and they expected that the coming Messiah would restore the kingdom to the Nation of Israel, but just because that is what they expected does not void God's plan. Jesus has a dual role as King over the Nation of Israel, which is not the Israel in the Middle East, and as our High Priest and mediator between us and our God.
Quote Psalm 110
1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. 3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth. 4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath. 6 He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many F324 countries. 7 He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.
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