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Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 06 2011,02:14) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 02 2011,18:48) Princess Quote It has been noted that this forum would have no light in it without trinity/binity believers, only one way to find out. how is that ?
Pierre
I said it and it is the truth. Kathi, Keith and myself give this forum light. This forum would be all darkness without us.You say thanks by spitting on God's truth.
KJ
That is so ridiculous….. especially since the trinity is a false doctrine…..
There is only one God and Fathe of all….
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
1Cr 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.
1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God.
there are more Scriptures that proof the trinity wrong…. But this is sufficient…
Irene
Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Who is your Lord?Acts 10:34
34Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel,preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”Col 2:8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
God bless,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2011,08:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Psalm 110:1
Jehovah says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”Kathi, if Jesus is a part of "Jehovah", then who is the "Lord" to whom JEHOVAH said, "Sit at my right hand………."?
David understood that Jesus, who is also his Lord, is somebody OTHER THAN "Jehovah". Why can't you?
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2011,01:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Who is your Lord?Acts 10:34
34Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel,preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”Col 2:8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
God bless,
Kathi
Kathi! Just because you say that Jesus and His God is Jehovah God doesn't make it so… Scripture says differently…..
That's it Kathi, I am wasting my time….
IreneI agree Irene!
I can't believe Kathi takes a scripture that says we have but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, and tries to use that very scripture to claim that Jesus is ALSO our God.
It is true that Jesus is our Lord, but only because God made him so:
Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”It is clear that our ONE God MADE Jesus our Lord.
How do people's views become so twisted? At what point do they cease to understand phrases like "Son OF God"?
peace to you and Georg,
mikeQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ Aug. 05 2011,09:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 02 2011,13:04) Well, at least they would be safer there Pierre. They wouldn't have to put up with you and Irene and t8 and me constantly blasting that comically flawed, man-made doctrine to shreds. 
Mike tears his own theology to shreds by speaking out of two sides of his mouth. Jesus is begotten and distinguished from the angels. No wait, Jesus is an angel.
KJ
Jack,There is no doubt that Jesus is an angel of God, for any spirit messenger of God is an angel. And Jesus, as the Word, is the HEAD messenger of his God. But is he a different kind of being than the angels who were created through him? I think he has to be a little different because he alone was created DIRECTLY by God while all other things were created by God but THROUGH Jesus.
It gets tricky to be clear on this point. Does Jesus have the nature of God? Yes, they both have a spirit nature. Do the angels and even Satan have the nature of God? Yes, because they are also spirit beings and God is their Father too. But is Jesus different from the others? I think yes.
Does that make him God Himself?
That's too silly to even answer.To sum up: Is Jesus an angel? "YES" Is Jesus different from the angels? "YES" Confusing? "YES"
But the fact is that Jesus IS an angel of his God, yet is different from the group of spirit beings commonly referred to as "angels".
peace,
mikeQuote (Pastry @ Aug. 07 2011,03:44) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2011,01:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Who is your Lord?Acts 10:34
34Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel,preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—37you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed. 38“You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. 39“We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross. 40“God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible, 41not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead. 42“And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. 43“Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.”Col 2:8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
God bless,
Kathi
Kathi! Just because you say that Jesus and His God is Jehovah God doesn't make it so… Scripture says differently…..
That's it Kathi, I am wasting my time….
Irene
Could you address the passages Kathi quoted Irene? It's not too much to ask….Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 07 2011,01:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Who is your Lord?
God made Jesus Lord. But he didn't make him Lord over God.Simple as that. God is Lord over Jesus and he appointed Christ to be Lord over all that he has made. If we reject Jesus lordship, then we obviously reject the one who made him Lord.
No Binity here LU. The YHWH Binity Compound Unity you teach is in your own head. It is not in scripture and therefore you teach something that is not scriptural.
If you start with the Binity you end with it, jsut as those who start with the Trinity end with it, or those who start with no God end with no God.
If you empty yourself of yourself, then you can be filled. Perhaps you are unable to be filled because you are already full of yourself? Just something for you to consider.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 03 2011,15:33) Acts 10:34
34 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
“I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. 36“The word which He sent to the sons of Israel,preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)—
IS and LU.Jesus is Lord because he received that from God. He is not Lord because he is God. The latter is a false understanding created by false doctrine and is complete unnecessary.
Ask yourself this: Is Jesus Lord of God?
Answer: No.God made Jesus Lord according to scripture. But he didn't make him lord of God. Not hard to understand is it? Think of the Pharaoh. He made Joseph lord of his kingdom, but he never made him lord of the Pharoah.
The one who makes a person Lord is obviously lord of the one who receives the lordship. Is it not written that it is greater to give than receive? Jesus is the recipient and God is the giver in the case of lordship. Even Jesus says, "why call me good, only God is good. Jesus is not saying that he is evil, rather he is saying that his goodness comes from God. That he is the recipient.
Back to the drawing board guys. Have another go at toppling the truth that there is one God the Father. I know you will not succeed, but that won't stop you from trying will it?
t8,
Who is saying that Jesus is the Lord of/over God? I am saying that Jesus is Jehovah with the Father not over the Father.God made the man part of Jesus many things, including Lord and Christ. The divine, pre-existing part of Jesus was Lord already. He was the creator with the Father after all.
Also, we aren't saying that there is more than one God the Father. However there is also one Lord the Son. Jehovah is both God, the Father…and Lord, the Son. Together, they are one in unity, not one in person.
Kathi
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2011,04:46) Perhaps you are unable to be filled because you are already full of yourself? Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2011,02:36) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 03 2011,04:46) Perhaps you are unable to be filled because you are already full of yourself?
+1Bump for Kathi, invite for Paul:
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2011,08:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Psalm 110:1
Jehovah says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”Kathi, if Jesus is a part of "Jehovah", then who is the "Lord" to whom JEHOVAH said, "Sit at my right hand………."?
David understood that Jesus, who is also his Lord, is somebody OTHER THAN "Jehovah". Why can't you?
mike
Paul, Jesus is not called Jehovah…. Whether Jesus is Lord of Lords or not….
Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.HIS NAME ALONE
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JEHOVAH, and rejoice before him.
HIS NAME, NOT THEIR NAMES…
Psa 97:9 For you, O LORD, are supreme over all the earth; you are exalted far above all gods.
In most Scriptures in the Old Testament LORD is translated Jehovah, because they didn't want to take Gods Name in vain….
Psa 86:12 I will praise You, O Lord my God, with all my heart, And I will glorify Your name forevermore.
There is only ONE Most High God…
Deu 4:35 "To you it was shown, that you might know that the LORD Himself [is] God; [there is] none other besides Him.
Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD [is] one! [fn]
Jehovah is ONE and not TWO……He is our Heavenly Father only, His name….ALONE
Irene
Kathi and Paul,
I add this to my last post:
Zechariah 6
12 And you must say to him, “‘This is what Jehovah of armies has said: “Here is the man whose name is Sprout. And from his own place he will sprout, and he will certainly build the temple of Jehovah. 13 And he himself will build the temple of Jehovah, and he, for his part, will carry [the] dignity; and he must sit down and rule on his throne, and he must become a priest upon his throne, and the very counsel of peace will prove to be between both of them."It seems that Jehovah is speaking about someone else building a temple for Him. Who is this builder of Jehovah's temple………the one who is NOT Jehovah Himself, but instead the builder, ruler and priest that Jehovah has appointed? Who might this one be?
Mike,
The root is the pre-existent Son, the 'sprout' is the human Son, together they are the incarnation of the begotten God and flesh man.Jehovah in the fullest sense is the unity of the Father and Son and their Spirit
Each member of this unity is also called Jehovah, one as the Father and one as the Son.
Context will help.John Gill is a good commentator if you want to know more.
http://bible.cc/zechariah/6-12.htmQuote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 04 2011,14:03) Bump for Kathi, invite for Paul: Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 06 2011,08:18) Jehovah is both God and Lord, Irene.
Psalm 110:1
Jehovah says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”Kathi, if Jesus is a part of "Jehovah", then who is the "Lord" to whom JEHOVAH said, "Sit at my right hand………."?
David understood that Jesus, who is also his Lord, is somebody OTHER THAN "Jehovah". Why can't you?
mike
The Lord here is the Jehovah the Son as David envisioned Him, by the Spirit, incarnated as man to be Jehovah our Righteousness.Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 04 2011,01:11) t8,
Who is saying that Jesus is the Lord of/over God? I am saying that Jesus is Jehovah with the Father not over the Father.
I know you haven't said that.
I am making the point that God is greater than lord/kurios.
Therefore God made Jesus Lord is now understood in context.God is greater than Jesus our Lord.
Not only do we know that God making Jesus Lord means that God is greater, but Jesus also said it with his own words. "The father is greater than I".Jesus is not God because he is Lord.
You could say that Jesus is the greatest with the exception of God. But saying that he is God is tantamount to saying he is the greatest because God is the greatest.
Your doctrine actually states that there are 2 greatests or Almighties, whether you like to admit it or not.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 07 2011,18:02) Your doctrine actually states that there are 2 greatests or Almighties, whether you like to admit it or not.
She BOLDLY admits it, t8. That's what makes this thing even more bizarre. Kathi doesn't even try to hide her TWO Almighty Gods inside a Godhead like the Trinitarians do with their three Gods.Instead, she just plainly states for the record that she has TWO Almighty Gods who created her, and TWO Almighty Gods that she worships.
This one is even too bizarre for the Bizzaro World thread.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 07 2011,10:54) Jehovah in the fullest sense is the unity of the Father and Son and their Spirit
Each member of this unity is also called Jehovah, one as the Father and one as the Son.
Context will help.
Jehovah never changes, Kathi. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. That means that "Jehovah" can't sometimes be just the Father, other times just the Son, and other times the both of them. Besides, your original claim was that there was the nameless Father, Jesus the Son, and "Jehovah" was the compound unity of BOTH of them together. Are you changing your doctrine now?Anyway, in the case of Zech 6, Jehovah is the one who is having a temple built. The OTHER ONE mentioned is the one who does the building.
For your understanding to be realized, Jesus the HUMAN has to be the one who built Jehovah's temple. Is that what you think?
And Jesus the HUMAN has to be the Priest to Jehovah. Is that what you think? And if so, is Jesus the HUMAN the Priest to only Jehovah the Father? Or is Jesus the HUMAN the Priest to the unity of Jehovah the Father and Jehovah the Son, making Jesus the HUMAN be a Priest to HIMSELF?
And finally, for your understanding to be realized, Jesus the HUMAN has to be the one who sits and rules on his throne. Is that what you think?
mike
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