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Kerwin
Quote Jesus is one who fulfills that desire as well as the one through which others fullfil that same desire. Doing those two things is what makes him the Son of God. I have no idea of what you mean so could you explain ??
Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2011,00:21) Kerwin Quote Jesus is one who fulfills that desire as well as the one through which others fullfil that same desire. Doing those two things is what makes him the Son of God. I have no idea of what you mean so could you explain ??
Pierre
Pierre1) God desires a people that are righteous as he is righteous as being righteous as he is righteous is worshipping God in Spirit
2) Jesus is righteous as God is righteous and so fullfills God's desire for a righteous people.
3) Jesus gives others the power to also be righteous as he is righteous and so fullfills God's desire for a righteous people.
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 11 2011,16:34) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 11 2011,18:01) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 11 2011,01:01) Kerwin! I think to make sure you understand who The Word of God is, I have given you this Scripture to compare…. Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Kerwin, who is that??? I thinki you should see out of this Scripture that it is a man, who will come back as The Word of God… and smite the nations with the wrath of God… which the nations need…. i just hope I am dead by then….Peace and Love Irene
Irene,Scripture is called the Word of God and yet you choose not to believe that Joh 1- is speaking of scripture.
So why would you use a different measurement and choose to believe that John 1- is speaking of Jesus because he also is called the Word of God.
As for me, I chose to believe the Word is the Word and that the Spirit of God expresses the Word whether it does so in Scripture or in Jesus.
Kerwin! So what you are saying that Rev. 19:13-16 is The Word of God, who became Jesus but not John 1:1
? That is so wrong it is the same person, and not the Spirit of God or His words…..Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Look at this Scripture. First it tells us that we beheld HIS, HIS glory…how can a spoken word of God be His, and become flesh…and who is the only begotten of the Father? It is who became Jesus …He is full of grace and truth…. A word alone cannot be made flesh…. that is ridiculous….
Also why do you think I gave you Rev. 19? Do you believe that is Jesus?
Irene,I am stating that Jesus is not the Word in John 1-.
He is the Word made human.
The Word is litterally the Word of God.
The Word is made human when that human lives according to it.
By living accord to the Word Jesus demonstrated that his nature was divine.
Jesus' glory is like the glory of the only begotten of God.
Since Jesus is the incarnation of the Word of God he is entitled to be called the Word of God.
If you look up the definition of incarnation then you will see that a human being the incarnation of the Word of God is not a ridicules concept.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 12 2011,22:19) Quote (terraricca @ Aug. 12 2011,00:21) Kerwin Quote Jesus is one who fulfills that desire as well as the one through which others fullfil that same desire. Doing those two things is what makes him the Son of God. I have no idea of what you mean so could you explain ??
Pierre
Pierre1) God desires a people that are righteous as he is righteous as being righteous as he is righteous is worshipping God in Spirit
2) Jesus is righteous as God is righteous and so fullfills God's desire for a righteous people.
3) Jesus gives others the power to also be righteous as he is righteous and so fullfills God's desire for a righteous people.
Kerwinif you fill your heart with the true knowledge of God and you love God for what he as done for you, you will be come righteous without any effort because it will be a natural out come of your love for God and his son,
trust the word of God and the spirit of Christ it will lead you to the love for God
Pierre
Mike,
Thank you for the reminder.
Quote As Irene has showed you, Rev 19 tells us exactly who the “Word” is. This is what God speaks by the Spirit of God through John.
Quote Revelation 19
King James Version (KJV)13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
You can see for yourself that it does not say Jesus is exactly the Word. What it does say is his name is called The Word of God.
Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Quote Ephesians 6:17 King James Version (KJV)
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:…, though I understand the Word in John 1:1- to be more in line with James 1:17-18 which follows.
Quote James 1
King James Version (KJV)17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
18Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.Quote And it is this same “Word” who was already God's only begotten before he was made flesh. I agree that the Word (Wisdom) of God is the first begotten of God. That is why seeing the glory of the Word made human being compared to the glory of the first begotten was not expected by me.
Quote That is why Jesus had the glory as of an only begotten from the Father, Kerwin. Because he WAS the only begotten from the Father. You are deriving that point as it is not written and the reason you gave for deriving it is tenuous at best.
Quote Kerwin, I know that Gene's agenda on the pre-existent subject is to do anything to keep Jesus from having ever been something other than “exactly like us”. What's your agenda? It is to seek God’s kingdom and his righteousness.
Quote I seriously wonder why you are willing come up with an understanding that allows for an “unknown” only begotten from the Father, but at the same time are so hell-bent against just accepting that Jesus has been God's only begotten Son way before God sent him into the world. Simply because John 1:14 compares the glory of the Word made human to the glory of the one and only begotten of God.
Quote You accept that Jesus is the one born first of the NEW creation. But you won't accept that he is the one born first of ALL creation. Why? After all, the scripture says ALL, not NEW. Scripture makes clear that all of creation will be made new by, through, and in Christ and is currently undergoing those birth pangs.
Quote You accept that the NEW ages were created through him, but you won't accept that THE ages were created through him. Why? To believe that is to believe that each individual was in Christ and then fell away. Hebrews 6:6 is clear of the results of that.
Quote Hebrews 6:6
King James Version (KJV)6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Quote The scripture doesn't say that the NEW ages were created through Jesus, does it? Quote Romans 8
King James Version (KJV)8For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.Quote Is there a particular scriptural reason why it is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE for Jesus to have pre-existed? Here are two.
Quote Luke 2:21
King James Version (KJV)21And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.
And
Quote John 7:42
King James Version (KJV)42Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
Kerwin! So The Word of God in both Scriptures are not who became Jesus? Then who is it in
Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Since you don't think it is who became Jesus and will come back, who is it?Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,09:04) Kerwin! So The Word of God in both Scriptures are not who became Jesus? Then who is it in Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Since you don't think it is who became Jesus and will come back, who is it?Peace and Love Irene
Kerwin! Are you going to0 answer this????IreneQuote (Pastry @ Aug. 17 2011,05:01) Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 15 2011,09:04) Kerwin! So The Word of God in both Scriptures are not who became Jesus? Then who is it in Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Since you don't think it is who became Jesus and will come back, who is it?Peace and Love Irene
Kerwin! Are you going to0 answer this????Irene
Irene,I am overwhelmed and so have not been able to answer all the posts. I believe I just answered, what you wrote in the previous post, in the thread on preexistence in the traditions or truth forum.
The topics of Jesus inheriting a preexisting Sonship and whether or not he preexist intertwine.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2011,15:58)
You can see for yourself that it does not say Jesus is exactly the Word. What it does say is his name is called The Word of God.
And Jehovah told Abraham that his name would no longer “be called” Abram. Does this mean that Abraham's name used to actually BE Abram? Or does “be called” have some hidden, mysterious meaning, like you imagine Rev 19:13 has?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2011,15:58)
Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Actually, it says that the SWORD of the spirit is the word of God, right?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2011,15:58)
though I understand the Word in John 1:1- to be more in line with James 1:17-18 which follows.
NIV
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Hmmm………….good scripture. Because we know that all things in heaven and on earth were brought forth THROUGH the Word of God, right? (We also know that all things were brought forth through God's only begotten Son, right?)Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 14 2011,15:58)
I agree that the Word (Wisdom) of God is the first begotten of God.
Then my work is done. Because whether you care to admit it or not, Jesus IS the Word of God. And Jesus IS the God's firstborn. And Jesus IS God's only begotten Son. The scriptures clearly say all three of those things, Kerwin.peace,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2011,08:58) Mike, Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Hi Kerwin,Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2011,05:00) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2011,08:58) Mike, Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Hi Kerwin,Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjIf I was you ,I would not point fingers ,your number are witness to your indoctrination,
Mike and I and Irene have told the same things and we do not have the NWT to follow so come up with good scriptures and understanding not bla,bla,bla
Pierre
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2011,22:00) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2011,08:58) Mike, Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Hi Kerwin,Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed, I know that you too think it is Gods Holy Spirit in John 1:1. well think about it. What does it say The Word of God is?Jhn 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In order to be there WITH GOD, THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER BEING, WHICH IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD…a better way to say this is that Jesus is the spoken Word of God…. Jesus came to do the will of His Father who sent Him….
Jhn 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Then in verse 14 of John 1 it says this
Jhn 1:14 ¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word of God who was with God became flesh. He is the only begotten of the Father. Do you know another being that is the only begotten of the Father? I don't think that is Gods Holy Spirit, but it is who became Jesus. That is why also He will come back as The Word of God and smite the nations with the wrath of Almighty God…… rev. 19:13-16
Peace Irene
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2011,17:00) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2011,08:58) Mike, Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Hi Kerwin,Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed. J.We all have been ensanared by the devil and it is wise to make sure we are not currently ensnared and to watch less we fall into more of his traps.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2011,16:25) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2011,17:00) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 15 2011,08:58) Mike, Compare Revelations 19:13 to Ephesians 6:17 where the Spirit is literally stated to be the Word,
Hi Kerwin,Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed. J.We all have been ensanared by the devil and it is wise to make sure we are not currently ensnared and to watch less we fall into more of his traps.
Kerwin! Maybe you need to look into a mirror…. finger pointing is not Christian like is it…. But the truth will one day be taught…. Jesus will come back as The Word of God who is the only begotten of the Father like John 1:14 states…..IreneQuote (Ed J @ Aug. 19 2011,05:00) Hi Kerwin, Religious 'brainwashing' (also called indoctrination) is hard to undo. (See Colossians 2:21-22)
Consider how Mike is still stuck on John 1:1 in the N.W.T rendered as 'a god' from the JW's indoctrination.God bless
Ed J
Who do you think “brainwashed” me, Ed? Three years ago I was an atheist. For reasons I won't go into at this time, I started reading the Bible in my own home, all by myself. I am now on my fourth time through, still reading it by myself.I don't attend church. I don't subscribe to Christian magazines. I don't belong to any organization or go on any other website forum except for HN.
And as far as I know, I'm the only one on HN who believes the “a god” translation of John 1:1. (I assume David believes it, but we've never discussed the matter.) So…………………who exactly “brainwashed” me?
And when were you ever going to get around to proving that translation false?
peace,
mikeQuote (Pastry @ Aug. 19 2011,19:15) In order to be there WITH GOD, THERE HAD TO BE ANOTHER BEING, WHICH IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD…
Exactly Irene.The FACT of the matter is that there are TWO beings being discussed in John 1:1. One of those beings was WITH the other being. They are both called by the title “theos”, which in English is “god”. But only ONE of them is called “THE theos” by John. So basically, we have “a god” who was WITH “THE god” in the beginning.
There is no way “THE god” could have been WITH “THE god”, for no person can be said to be WITH himself.
We also know from Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus would be called a mighty god. And we know from the rest of the scriptures that Jesus was not THE god he was WITH.
So like I said, John 1:1 speaks of the Word of God, who was WITH “THE God” in the beginning, and was himself a god.
It's not really that hard to figure out if you only allow yourself to be taught by the scriptures.
peace,
mikeMike
Quote And as far as I know, I'm the only one on HN who believes the “a god” translation of John 1:1. NO, you are not the only one here me to my friend ,I believe that it is “a god”
Pierre
[/QUOTE]
And as far as I know, I'm the only one on HN who believes the “a god” translation of John 1:1Mike!
No, you are not the only one, God is a title and so is The Word of God….. Jehovah God is above all
Eph. 4:6I see God as a Family name…. The Family of God…. which we are now members of, all born again Christians that is….
Some just are not called out to understand the truth now. Georg keeps on telling me all the time…Also what I find very interesting that only 3 years ago you started to read the Bible…. how amazing what God has done for you…. To see so clearly what the Bible is teaching us….
Most of all Churches today believe in the trinity and think that they have to keep the Sabbath… Neither is true… We have stayed home now since 1994 also…. God since then has revealed so many truths to us… Thank you Jehovah God who alone I worship…Peace Irene
What Kerwin doesn't see is that The Word of God is the only begotten of the Father and became flesh….
Irene and Pierre,
It is comforting to have support from people like you two, whose scriptural knowledge and faith I count on so often here.
And Irene, thank you for the compliment. But as you yourself know, it's not that hard to see clearly what the scriptures teach if you shut yourself off from the personal doctrines of others and let ONLY those scriptures do the teaching.
peace,
mike
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