Jw's and islam

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 04 2011,02:09)

bd, another question, i have read that your sabbath is friday, however the only difference is that you have a caller that tells you it is time to pray, is this true? is it something like mass?

The Sabbath day has always been from Friday sunset to Saturday Sunset in Islam the day of congregating is Friday Afternoon and is not called “Sabbath”

The call to prayer is made so that everyone can stop what thety are doing to come together and pray as one and then they return to their daily activities.

The Sabbath is a sign between the Jews and Jehovah it was made strict for them.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Jan. 04 2011,05:04)

The JW's are always talking about ransom sacrifice and is something people try to smear them with for some reason. Is it unbiblical? I DON'T THINK SO. Matthew 20:28(NWT) reads 28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” Matthew 20:28 KING'S JAMES VERSION reads 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Matthew 20:27-29 (English Standard Version) 27and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,[a] 28even as the Son of Man came not to be served but(A) to serve, and(B) to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Does to give his life as a ransom have to mean “Sacrifice”?

All I am asking here is the term “give your life” mean always to die or can it mean “devote your life” as a redeemer

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2011,07:02)

Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Jan. 04 2011,05:04) The JW's are always talking about ransom sacrifice and is something people try to smear them with for some reason. Is it unbiblical? I DON'T THINK SO. Matthew 20:28(NWT) reads 28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” Matthew 20:28 KING'S JAMES VERSION reads 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Matthew 20:27-29 (English Standard Version) 27and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,[a] 28even as the Son of Man came not to be served but(A) to serve, and(B) to give his life as a ransom for© many.” Does to give his life as a ransom have to mean “Sacrifice”? All I am asking here is the term “give your life” mean always to die or can it mean “devote your life” as a redeemer

Hi BD,

This is the closest I've seen you come the admitting “The Truth” of the Gospel!

YHVH bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[princess]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2011,06:56)

is not called “Sabbath”

does it have a name?

they call that mass in the catholic faith. i do believe their sabbath is on sunday or the christian sabbath, change and all that.

do you do anything other then this call to prayer on sabbath?

do you sabbath?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 04 2011,08:13)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2011,06:56) is not called “Sabbath” does it have a name? they call that mass in the catholic faith. i do believe their sabbath is on sunday or the christian sabbath, change and all that. do you do anything other then this call to prayer on sabbath? do you sabbath?

This is not called Sabbath and neither should those who simply go to church on sunday claim it as a Sabbath. God proclaimed to the Jews to keep the sabbath forever and there has been no change in it. It is a Holy Covenant made strict for the Jews. It is not like Mass because Islam has no priests in agreement with Jesus who says do not lord over one another as the gentiles do

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 04 2011,07:23)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 04 2011,07:02) Quote (betweenchristendomandjws @ Jan. 04 2011,05:04) The JW's are always talking about ransom sacrifice and is something people try to smear them with for some reason. Is it unbiblical? I DON'T THINK SO. Matthew 20:28(NWT) reads 28 Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” Matthew 20:28 KING'S JAMES VERSION reads 28Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Matthew 20:27-29 (English Standard Version) 27and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,[a] 28even as the Son of Man came not to be served but(A) to serve, and(B) to give his life as a ransom for© many.” Does to give his life as a ransom have to mean “Sacrifice”? All I am asking here is the term “give your life” mean always to die or can it mean “devote your life” as a redeemer Hi BD, This is the closest I've seen you come the admitting “The Truth” of the Gospel! YHVH bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

“blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”

[princess]

k, so we are going to ring around the rosie, let's not call it that, who wants to chant and dance to death?

once again i apologize, it has been shown you do not understand what is being asked, and truly i could not use simpler terms, my apologies bd.

take care

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 04 2011,12:40)

k, so we are going to ring around the rosie, let's not call it that, who wants to chant and dance to death? once again i apologize, it has been shown you do not understand what is being asked, and truly i could not use simpler terms, my apologies bd. take care

What are you asking?

[princess]

maybe it is me you don't understand, i am familiar with many religions and their beliefs, traditions, customs. have taken most and compared paralelled charts ect…i do like to gather information, however, i have not put much time into islams customs, traditions.

Stuart's introduction to critical thinking has even help me go farther, not in the way he wanted, even so i enjoy the gift.

so to give me lesson of theology is to say the least is boring.

your friday call to prayer, this is done only on a set apart day correct? comparison would be sabbath, without the 'title' of this day, i do not know what to call it, so does this set apart day have a title, does islam do anything other then this call to prayer on this set apart day.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 05 2011,12:52)

maybe it is me you don't understand, i am familiar with many religions and their beliefs, traditions, customs. have taken most and compared paralelled charts ect…i do like to gather information, however, i have not put much time into islams customs, traditions. Stuart's introduction to critical thinking has even help me go farther, not in the way he wanted, even so i enjoy the gift. so to give me lesson of theology is to say the least is boring. your friday call to prayer, this is done only on a set apart day correct? comparison would be sabbath, without the 'title' of this day, i do not know what to call it, so does this set apart day have a title, does islam do anything other then this call to prayer on this set apart day.

It's not really a day set apart it's simply a day of congregation

O ye who believe! When the call is proclaimed to prayer on Friday (the Day of Assembly), hasten earnestly to the Remembrance of Allah, and leave off business (and traffic): That is best for you if ye but knew!
And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah: and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper. —Qur'an, sura 62

Remember, Muslims pray often throughout the day i.e. “pray without ceasing”, the assembly is for the sake of Community i.e. “do not forsake the assembly of others”

God bless you and just to let you know I was not trying to give you a lesson in theology I was just sharing with you what I could share, I thank you for being willing to listen.

[princess]

Quote

Direction of Prayer toward Jerusalem Mohammad changed the direction of Prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem when arrived at Medina. Later it was changed back to Medina after the Jews rejected his Prophethood.

source

see bd, comparison, as rome changed the sabbath for christians.

the source mentioned above has some interesting facts in regards to islam, if you see anything of interest on the site, i would be happy to discuss them with you.

blessings and favour bd

[bodhitharta]

Quote (princess @ Jan. 07 2011,14:04)

Quote Direction of Prayer toward Jerusalem Mohammad changed the direction of Prayer from Mecca to Jerusalem when arrived at Medina. Later it was changed back to Medina after the Jews rejected his Prophethood. source see bd, comparison, as rome changed the sabbath for christians. the source mentioned above has some interesting facts in regards to islam, if you see anything of interest on the site, i would be happy to discuss them with you. blessings and favour bd

It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing. —Qur'an 2:177–250 (Yusuf Ali)

Turning towards the Sacred Mosque is not for ritual it is simply to symbolize unity

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2011,18:25)

Turning towards the Sacred Mosque is not for ritual it is simply to symbolize unity

From Wikipedia, (and matched by other dictionary definitions):

A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value.

“Unity” is one expression you could use.
Symbol of tribalism is another.
Submission to a caliphate it is also.

This religion interrupts your day several times and demands allegiance. You have to remind yourself of the “Straight Path” five times a day.

Is that because Mo thought his followers were morons, or because he feared the period of time in which they might mull on their own thoughts would be dangerously long and put at risk the zombie spell induced by chanting nonsense to oneself?

Just look at the mindless vacant stare in the eyes of Danish cartoon protesters in Pakistan and Bangaldesh shown on TV to see this effect in practice. You can bet they had just been addressed by an imam who insisted on more prayers.

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2011,11:05)

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2011,18:25) Turning towards the Sacred Mosque is not for ritual it is simply to symbolize unity From Wikipedia, (and matched by other dictionary definitions): A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value. “Unity” is one expression you could use. Symbol of tribalism is another. Submission to a caliphate it is also. This religion interrupts your day several times and demands allegiance.  You have to remind yourself of the “Straight Path” five times a day. Is that because Mo thought his followers were morons, or because he feared the period of time in which they might mull on their own thoughts would be dangerously long and put at risk the zombie spell induced by chanting nonsense to oneself? Just look at the mindless vacant stare in the eyes of Danish cartoon protesters in Pakistan and Bangaldesh shown on TV to see this effect in practice.  You can bet they had just been addressed by an imam who insisted on more prayers. Stuart

I'm sorry, what I meant to say was that it was not what made one a Muslim.

For instance not reading the Bible wouldn't make someone an atheist.

In the Quran there is no reference to submitting to a caliphate and their is no hiearchy not even in a Mosque, however shia Muslims do seem to contain those elements but these elements are not presribed in the Quran as something to be followed.

Regarding praying often it is really a best method for rememberence and self-control.

The fact is if you go to an atheists forum or simply observe yourself you practice a constant prayer like mantra here as if you were constantly praying that people here stopped believing in God.

By the way if someone did stop believing in God because of conversing with you , how would you feel?

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 09 2011,15:19)

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2011,11:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 08 2011,18:25) Turning towards the Sacred Mosque is not for ritual it is simply to symbolize unity From Wikipedia, (and matched by other dictionary definitions): A ritual is a set of actions, performed mainly for their symbolic value. “Unity” is one expression you could use. Symbol of tribalism is another. Submission to a caliphate it is also. This religion interrupts your day several times and demands allegiance.  You have to remind yourself of the “Straight Path” five times a day. Is that because Mo thought his followers were morons, or because he feared the period of time in which they might mull on their own thoughts would be dangerously long and put at risk the zombie spell induced by chanting nonsense to oneself? Just look at the mindless vacant stare in the eyes of Danish cartoon protesters in Pakistan and Bangaldesh shown on TV to see this effect in practice.  You can bet they had just been addressed by an imam who insisted on more prayers. Stuart I'm sorry, what I meant to say was that it was not what made one a Muslim. For instance not reading the Bible wouldn't make someone an atheist. In the Quran there is no reference to submitting to a caliphate and their is no hiearchy not even in a Mosque, however shia Muslims do seem to contain those elements but these elements are not presribed in the Quran as something to be followed. Regarding praying often it is really a best method for rememberence and self-control. The fact is if you go to an atheists forum or simply observe yourself you practice a constant prayer like mantra here as if you were constantly praying that people here stopped believing in God. By the way if someone did stop believing in God because of conversing with you , how would you feel?

Is a muslim only someone who only pays attention to the koran?

My feelings about someone abandoning god belief might depend on the reasons given.

How would you feel about someone becoming atheist as a result of conversing with you?

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 09 2011,16:38)

Quote

Is a muslim only someone who only pays attention to the koran?

The best way to answer that question is to say “no” those wishing to be the best of Muslims certainly do.

Quote

My feelings about someone abandoning god belief might depend on the reasons given.

so the reasons would effect your feelings?

Quote

How would you feel about someone becoming atheist as a result of conversing with you?

I would feel pleased and the reason is simple, any definite decision that was made by hearing all the facts brings out the informed decision therefore leaving no one with an excuse or without a warning.

I think what I do not enjoy is hearing that someone has become an atheist based upon something in their own religion that turned them away or that they realized about it. For instance someone believing in the trinity or the belief that Jesus is God, when people like this become Atheist because they find one or both of these conclusions to be false it makes me sad because Jesus not being God, doesn't disprove the existence of God or the faulty logic of trinitarians don't make the belief in God illogical. In-fact I find it quite impossible not to believe in God what I find is people who say they don't believe in God don't believe in any understanding of God which “is” their own understanding of not believing in God.

God Bless!

[Stu]

Quote (bodhitharta @ Jan. 10 2011,03:15)

Stu,Jan. wrote: [/quote] Quote Is a muslim only someone who only pays attention to the koran? The best way to answer that question is to say “no” those wishing to be the best of Muslims certainly do. Quote My feelings about someone abandoning god belief might depend on the reasons given. so the reasons would effect your feelings? Quote How would you feel about someone becoming atheist as a result of conversing with you? I would feel pleased and the reason is simple, any definite decision that was made by hearing all the facts brings out the informed decision therefore leaving no one with an excuse or without a warning. I think what I do not enjoy is hearing that someone has become an atheist based upon something in their own religion that turned them away or that they realized about it. For instance someone believing in the trinity or the belief that Jesus is God, when people like this become Atheist because they find one or both of these conclusions to be false it makes me sad because Jesus not being God, doesn't disprove the existence of God or the faulty logic of trinitarians don't make the belief in God illogical. In-fact I find it quite impossible not to believe in God what I find is people who say they don't believe in God don't believe in any understanding of God which “is” their own understanding of not believing in God. God Bless!

I would agree regarding those who decide to give up god belief on the basis of having the freedom to consider it. I think the reasons you would not enjoy hearing however are quite common ones. For a lot of people, once you realise that there is nothing about their existence, or anything, to be explained by believing in a god then the last reason is removed for them.

Would you be classifying muslims then not into sunni, shia, wahhabist, etc, but “better” and “not better”?

Stuart

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 10 2011,08:41)

Quote

I would agree regarding those who decide to give up god belief on the basis of having the freedom to consider it. I think the reasons you would not enjoy hearing however are quite common ones. For a lot of people, once you realise that there is nothing about their existence, or anything, to be explained by believing in a god then the last reason is removed for them.

Well, this is my point they cannot come to such a conclusion about the existence of God they can only come to a point about the existence of their “understanding of God” This is the crux of the whole matter. Let's say you could convince me that Islam was a false religion and that I have it all wrong, how would that in anyway impact reality? It would only impact my understanding of reality, convincing me I can fly doesn't mean I won't fall dead if I jump from a high place so misunderstanding does not negate actuality, not understanding calculous doesn't somehow make it not work and my experience is “God Works”.

If I eat and get full your argument against not eating and being full is invalid

Quote

Would you be classifying muslims then not into sunni, shia, wahhabist, etc, but “better” and “not better”?

That's rather hard to state plainly about anybody believing in anything because that is determined according to their knowledge the best Muslim or Christian or Atheist for that matter is one that is not a Hypocrite

God Bless!

[Stu]

Quote (Stu @ Jan. 10 2011,08:41)

Well, this is my point they cannot come to such a conclusion about the existence of God they can only come to a point about the existence of their “understanding of God” This is the crux of the whole matter.

I have come to a provisional conclusion about the existence of your god. Based on the fact that you cannot provide me with a single shred of unambiguous evidence for it, and not just you but any believer, I conclude it does not exist. I am not concluding that the god idea or the “understanding of god” does not exist because obviously it does, but it is make-believe concerning an imaginary friend.

Quote

Let's say you could convince me that Islam was a false religion and that I have it all wrong, how would that in anyway impact reality? It would only impact my understanding of reality, convincing me I can fly doesn't mean I won't fall dead if I jump from a high place so misunderstanding does not negate actuality, not understanding calculous doesn't somehow make it not work and my experience is “God Works”.

It might make your life more rewarding for you not to be believing things that almost certainly aren’t true. You might appreciate the universe and your place in it more profoundly without a mythology obscuring it.

Quote

That's rather hard to state plainly about anybody believing in anything because that is determined according to their knowledge the best Muslim or Christian or Atheist for that matter is one that is not a Hypocrite.

What is the relationship between knowledge and hypocrisy? If you don’t know anything about the religion you profess then you have the least chance of behaving in a hypocritical manner.

Stuart

[Stu]

Oops, coding didn't work there…was quoting BD…

[Author]

Posts