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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 21 2011,22:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2011,07:50) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2011,20:59) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 21 2011,09:56) Keith, JA ran out of arguments. Rather than be humble and concede he hurled insults.
jack
Similar to the way YOU do things, huh?
MikeWas that needed?
WJ
Are you flippin' KIDDING ME?!?!?! That would be considered one of the NICEST things HE ever said to or about ME!
Come on, Keith……….show a little impartiality. Weren't you running for moderator?
mike
MikeYour statement was not in reference to anything just a pop shot. But Okay I agree I am biased.
For your information I wouldn't want to be a moderator especially if you are one.
WJ
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,20:30) I don't know if it went well for Mike or not, or perhaps it was you that lacked understanding.
It's going fantastically well for Mike over there.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,02:18) Mike Your statement was not in reference to anything just a pop shot.
As opposed to Jack's searching and thoughtful comments about ME?
By the way, I was raised in Iowa, and we called it a “pot shot”. Interesting.
peace and love to you Keith,
mikewj,
you know very well t8 brings more then one scripture forth for understanding. even though t8 post are far and inbetween they are powerful.
i can find many that support the scriptures t8 presents, however, i cannot find another to support yours.
please explain why this is.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:11) Jesus is not God. Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:04) Satan is a God. He is the God of this age. Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,05:04) Satan is still a God, the God of this age.
Hi AllDoes anyone see the confusion in the above statemens by t8? Why does it seem that the anti Jesus is God crowd seek to diminish Jesus rather than exalt him?
It appears here that satan is greater than Jesus, yet we know that Jesus has all authority and power and all things are in his hands and by him all things consist and are upheld by the Word of his power and that all things are being made subject to him.
Yet t8 says he is not God but satan is the God of this world.
The Bible teaches there is “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD” and not many gods. The Bible doesn’t teach “Polytheism”.
Paul said there is “no God but one”, and all others are so-called gods. 1 Cor 8:4-6
The world has many lords and gods which are not gods at all but to them they are.
Jesus is either God or he is not God at all.
Tell us t8, If to you satan is the God of this world then who is Jesus the God of?
WJ
Quote (princess @ Jan. 22 2011,10:24) wj, you know very well t8 brings more then one scripture forth for understanding. even though t8 post are far and inbetween they are powerful.
i can find many that support the scriptures t8 presents, however, i cannot find another to support yours.
please explain why this is.
Is Mattew 28:19 scripture or not?WJ
wj,
your response is unacceptable, for it does not apply to the question asked.
is there any other scripture that supports the one you present?
a yes or no is sufficent for me.
Quote (princess @ Jan. 22 2011,11:30) wj, your response is unacceptable, for it does not apply to the question asked.
is there any other scripture that supports the one you present?
a yes or no is sufficent for me.
PrincessSure it is a proper response. Scripture is scripture isn't it? Do we have to have duplicate scriptures for every scripture?
How about the scripture that says “God is a Spirit”? Do you have any other supporting scripture for “God is a Spirit”?
If you can't give me any then your point is moot. If you can then I will show you other scritpures that speak of the three, there other scriptures that do, you know
, just read the book of Acts and you will see the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit at work as One.WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:05)
Why does it seem that the anti Jesus is God crowd seek to diminish Jesus rather than exalt him?
We are calling a spade a spade, Keith. Jesus is the second most powerful ruler in existence and our Lord. We love him as much as you do and are just as thankful for his part in our salvation. But if scripture says Satan is the “god of this age”, then Satan is the “god of this age”. What do you suppose WE do about it? We are only believing the scriptures. It is you to whom Jesus says, “Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and not do what I say?”Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:05)
The Bible teaches there is “ONLY ONE TRUE GOD” and not many gods.
The Bible teaches that the one true God is the Father, not a Father/Son/Spirit trinity. Keith, if your Lord tells you that our one true God is his Father, then why don't you believe what your Lord taught you? And how do you come up with the thought that Jesus meant himself too? Did he SAY himself too?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:05)
Paul said there is “no God but one”, and all others are so-called gods. 1 Cor 8:4-6
Paul also said exactly WHO that “one God” is. He also said it was THE FATHER. And he, like Jesus, did NOT imply any Father/Son/Spirit trinity in his statement. Also, the phrase “so-called gods” is an invention of English scholars. The phrase Paul actually used was simply that “there are many who are called gods”.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 23 2011,03:05)
Jesus is either God or he is not God at all.
No Keith. For the way YOU want to take the “only true God” statement means that Jesus is either THE FATHER, or he is no God at all.Keith, is Jesus THE FATHER?
mike
Quote Sure it is a proper response. Scripture is scripture isn't it? Do we have to have duplicate scriptures for every scripture? you surprise me with this answer wj, you find these scriptures with each response you give to support your triad worship. do you not?
Quote How about the scripture that says “God is a Spirit”? Do you have any other supporting scripture for “God is a Spirit”? let's use this one,
Php 3:3 For it is we who are the circumcision—we who worship in the Spirit of God and find our joy in the Messiah Jesus. We have not placed any confidence in the flesh,
the spirit of god is in many places with scriptures, do you need more, let me know.
Quote If you can't give me any then your point is moot. ye have little faith wj.
Quote If you can then I will show you other scritpures that speak of the three, there other scriptures that do, you know , wj, this is a moot point, for all have seen your post in regards to this. come now wj.
Quote
just read the book of Acts and you will see the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit at work as One.i prefer john, you know the book, you use only the first part of it to prove your theory, it seems you forget the rest, take for instance i believe it is four twenty four, where ones are sought believing in spirit and truth.
do take care wj.
by the by wj,
by all means please refer another scripture that states the same as matthew does or just answer with a simple yes or no.a scholar of such this should not be so complicated now should it wj.
Bump for Keith:
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 22 2011,07:53) Mike You are not interested in discussing whether there is a Trinity God in the scriptures, because if we take the literal meaning of the scriptures then the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit are God.
The singular name and the definite articles is proof enough to prove my point with JA and the title of this thread.
WJ
Revelation 14:1 NIV
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.Revelation 3:12 NIV
The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.Sounds like two different beings who have two different names to me.
Keith, I can only think of ONE reason why someone would NOT have a PERSONAL NAME. And that ONE reason is because that “someone” is not an individual PERSON.
Pehaps you can enlighten me about other reasons that a PERSON doesn't have a PERSONAL NAME?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,14:36) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:37) You state that God created all through him? what God? whom? Define God for the sake of clarification. Of course I agree the Father created beacuse I believe them to be one and the same.
But thats the way I see it, which is easy for me to understand.
But as you wre stating in your last example that “God (Clarity needed)” is the orginator of all things, but we know that Jesus created, so of course Jesus is INCLUDED in this phrase as well.
Do you have kids?Did you create them, or did God create them through you? (I admit at this point that I do not know if you are male or female, but God creates through both does he not?
Now the head of Christ is God and the head of the woman is man, and the head of man is Christ. Who is the head of God? No one. He is the one true God. The only God. In otherwords all else is OF him. Even Jesus is OF him. Jesus came from God. Jesus cannot be both God and OF God. If you do not believe that, then you need to re-evaluate your faith according to this verse:
John 8:42 (English NIV)
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.
Oh gosh im happy i dont have kids.
Im a Dude T8.Totally understandable, but what does that have to do with Christ and how exactly he was used?
In other words, we know that in the OT there isnt a scripture that states that this Jesus created at all. but all of the sudden John and Paul paint this picture that since the beginning Jesus created and sustains all life?
in reference Col1, Heb1, John1T8 all scripture must be evaluted with other scriptures, and to make doctrine based on one scripture alone can be taken out of context.
19Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
54Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
55Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying
56Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Looking at your Text alone, of course you have a point, but consider the same text with Context and its a different story.Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,14:49) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:37) So Judas was still Judas, but it had nothing to do with Qaulity but possession. So As Judas was still Judas, he was still as much as Satan as Satan was.
Who said the Devil had horns? (Im honestly asking)
It does. He is either devil in identity making him the Devil or in nature/quality/characteristic. Jesus never called Judas THE Devil. That is my point. He called him devil. In English we add “a” to make the sentence intelligible.So not Judas was not as much Satan as Satan was. Satan didn't hang himself for a start. Satan probably still has no remorse.
Who said the Devil had horns? I guess that one was lost on you. It was a figure of speech to describe in few words that Judas didn't become Satan. I am surprised that one threw you. I won't assume that you will understand next time, so I will be more careful to cater to your understanding. In case you haven't figured it yet, I am not saying nor do I believe that he has horns.
Ok I agree in what your stating, but my focus is that Judas for a time was indwelt by the devil, so therefore if the Devil literally took hold of him, he is stilll Judas as much he was the Devil.It didnt lose on me, i just wasnt sure if it was a figure of speech or that you litearlly believe this. You be surprised in how many people and even small children believe the Devil is the monstrous beast.
So its good to clear things out.Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,14:56) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:37) So Qualitive would have to be proven in every reference.
Greek language is helpful here.THE in Greek identifies. Lack of the definite article (THE) qualifies.
If I say THE river in Greek, they will want to know WHICH one.
If I say river, then they might want an explanation about the general nature of a river.We have this also in English. If I say, you are an angel, I am saying you are like an angel, or have the nature of an angel. On the other hand, if I say, You are the angel. Then I am actually identifying you as a specific angel.
See how the word angel can be used here. TO identify or qualify. So it is with theos and elohim.
This is why Paul could say as I do that for us, there is one God, the Father. Because there is only one who is in identity THE God. Qualitatively speaking, theos and elohim has a wide range of applications beyond the Most High God.
T8,
Its late at night and my mind feels clouded.
but ill attempt to respond.Ok, soo Your basically saying that Elohim and Theos are used as a Quality or in other words a Ajective to describe a noun?
Question was the Father always the father?
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,15:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:37) Lets start with Theos.
Ephesians 1:3- Obviosuly is used for the Father.
John 20:28-29- I agree its about Jesus.
2 Corinthians 4:4- This is where i can prove that Satan is not a God at all. To be a God of an age, is not a god for its a limit to a authority that was never his to begin with. Its permissable by the one True God. and He does this to blind those from seeing the Light which is found in the IMAGE of God. to blind us away from the One True God.
Satan is a God. He is the God of this age. YHWH is not the God of this age. He is the God of the Earth, but not the age/world.A God is the creator and originator of something. Sure Satan is subject to the laws and boundaries that YHWH has set. But Satan is still a God, the God of this age. With that came certain power and authority which he even tried to give to Jesus at one point. This is another topic however.
You Defined God as “the creator and originator of something”
What is Satan the creator or orginator of what?
how is Jehovah not the God of this age? your talking about temporal time, isnt God Eternal?Quote (t8 @ Jan. 22 2011,15:11) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 22 2011,15:37) Well T8, to be honest im confused. I dont know where you going with these verses. Are you trying to prove that Jesus is not God? becuause your using scriptures that easily are interpreted by thier context, but how does that disprove that Jesus is a diety? And what do you believe the Term God means? is it ONLY a title, beacuse you also use Genesis 1:1 which we know God is used as a noun not a ajective.
Be confused no longer.There is one God the Father.
Jesus is the son of this God, the messiah, the Logos of God.
Jesus is not the son of himself.
God the Father is not the son and vice versa.Just as Jesus is like God, we can be like God and like Jesus. We are all different identities, but we can all be like in nature and character.
If you are preaching Oneness, then I can assure you that when God knows the day and the hour and the son doesn't it is not because God forgets when he turns into flesh.
God is not a man. God cannot die. God is not limited in knowledge.
Jesus is not God. He is of God. He came from God. He was sent by God. He is the image of God. Similarly Eve is not Adam. She is of Adam. She was the image of Adam. She came from Adam. But she wasn't Adam.
Before I address what u stated before ill focus on one part.Quote If you are preaching Oneness, then I can assure you that when God knows the day and the hour and the son doesn't it is not because God forgets when he turns into flesh. God is not a man. God cannot die. God is not limited in knowledge.
You said God does not forget.
But Doesnt God forget your Sins?
in fact doesnt scripture state that He forgets your sin for his own Good.Isnt that Limited in Knowledge?
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 24 2011,05:03) he is stilll Judas as much he was the Devil.
No he is Judas and Satan is the Devil.
Judas in not THE Devil he under the influence of the Devil.Being possessed, taken over, doesn't change a person into another person. It is still the original person under the influence.
If I am indwelt by God's Spirit and I obey every prompting of the Spirit, does that make me God? No, perhaps godly, but not God.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 24 2011,16:34) You Defined God as “the creator and originator of something”
What is Satan the creator or orginator of what?
how is Jehovah not the God of this age? your talking about temporal time, isnt God Eternal?
Scripture is clear that we have at least 3 enemies. Satan, flesh, and the world. The world is the same word as the age or aeon.If YHWH is the God of the world/age and the world is our enemy, then the only conclusion would be that YHWH is our enemy. We know that YHWH is good and the world is bad however.
Yes the Devil is the God of this age. Thankfully an age/aeon is not eternal. So his time will run out.
Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Jan. 24 2011,16:36) You said God does not forget.
But Doesnt God forget your Sins?
in fact doesnt scripture state that He forgets your sin for his own Good.Isnt that Limited in Knowledge?
God chooses not to bring them into remembrance when our sin is dealt with.If you think that he completely forgets, then you are entitled to that opinion I suppose.
Sometimes I say, “look forget about it”. What I mean by that is that it is not worth bringing it back to remembrance or to talk about it again. I am not telling the hearer to wipe their memory bank of this information to the point where if you brought it up, they would reply with something like, “what are you talking about”?
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