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Hi WJ,
'You' didn't answer “my” question?
But regarding yours; did you mean “SUN” instead of “son”?…
Quote Can the Sun exist without the Radiance or can the Radiance exist without the Sun?
I don't believe so… now what?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2011,04:14) t8 A Mystery? First of all please present a scripture that says Jesus “will become” anything, for my Bible says he is the same, yesterday, today and forever”!
Dear WJ, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.In other words, Paul's information as to what we are to become was the same as what Jesus is now.
So if Jesus existed with divine nature and we are told that we can participate in that nature, then a picture does start to emerge. However, I would like to play it safe and say no more than what my brother Paul has said.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2011,04:14) Every one please take note that the questions I ask are not being answered by t8. He is merely spinning around them. That seems a little hypocritical of you t8 since you scolded those of us that you and Mike have been accusing of not answering questions don't you think?
These questions only require a simple answer and you can't seem to do that, why not?
Does Jesus share or partake of Gods nature, Yes or No?
Whose “Divine” nature are we being changed into? God or Jesus?
WJ
No need to get irate WJ. You have no justification to complain here because I have answered the first question many times and made statements that show my stance regarding this. It is you who is spinning like a top, not me.I have said and I repeat that he existed with divine nature then partook of human nature and is now back in the glory that he had with the Father before the world begun.
In other words yes I believe that he has or partakes in divine nature now as he did before he partook of human nature. I have said this many times.
Please take note of the answer WJ. Every one take note that I have given WJ his answer and have done so in the past and even did so before he asked the question.
I will answer the second question in the next post. That one seems like a new question or I haven't seen it before.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2011,04:14) Whose “Divine” nature are we being changed into? God or Jesus?
It should be the same divine nature.When Eve was created from Adam, she shared his nature, the same nature called human nature.
I would imagine that it wouldn't be too different in this case.
But just as Eve was created by God but through Adam, we are being changed by God but through Christ Jesus.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 16 2011,16:41) In other words yes I believe that he has or partakes in divine nature now as he did before he partook of human nature. I have said this many times.
t8Okay please clarify.
Where is the scripture that says Jesus “partook” or “partakes” of the divine nature?
Isn't this more conjecture?
Wasn't Jesus “divine” when he walked in this earth in the flesh?
WJ
I said that he has or partakes of divine nature. Read that sentence carefully.
We know that Jesus existed with divine nature and partook of human nature (flesh and blood) and returned to the glory he had before.
I guess you could ask yourself WJ if you are a partaker of human nature. Whatever your understanding of this is, could well be the answer you seek because you have human nature and Jesus existed with divine nature. The only contention may be the difference in being a partaker or participator. If you think there is a difference, then that is the part that might affect the outcome. i.e., that Jesus is not a partaker of divine nature because he first existed with that nature, instead he is a partaker of human nature because that was the nature he took of as opposed to having in the first place. If that is your understanding, then we (humans) are the reverse, in that we have human nature and can partake of divine nature later on. Ultimately though, we will have a body like his.
Hebrews 2:14
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devilQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 17 2011,08:55) Wasn't Jesus “divine” when he walked in this earth in the flesh?
Don't know.Somethings to consider.
We can NOW partake of divine nature, so I would imagine that he at least partook of divine nature, while sharing in human nature.
But just as we can partake in that nature, one day we will have a spiritual body, so I assume that he has that now.
Remember our lowly bodies will be transformed into his likeness and he calls us brothers.
This is hardly material for arguing the Trinity Doctrine, in fact it is detrimental. Why bring this up?
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 16 2011,19:22) We know that Jesus existed with divine nature and partook of human nature (flesh and blood) and returned to the glory he had before.
t8But you are assuming that he gave up his “divine nature” to partake of human nature and then partake of divine nature again, is that right?
WJ
Whether he gave it up or not has no bearing because we who have human nature can partake of divine nature now.
(It says he emptied himself and we don't have the fine details as to what he emptied himself of.)Sure, divine nature must be part of the new creation in us, but we still carry around our old bodies and until they are made new, we are burdened by the old still.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 15 2011,08:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 15 2011,08:35) Will anyone or does anyone but Jesus and the Father sit in Gods throne t8? It is a simple yes or no question!
You didn't answer my questions t8, why not? Should we put you on the hot seat?
WJ
Only the Father and Jesus will sit on the Father's throne.Now my question.
Will anyone but Jesus sit in Jesus throne WJ?
Did you answer this question?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 16 2011,04:33) Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2011,12:00) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 15 2011,19:04)
Christ is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory and the EXACT representation of His substance.
Hi Jack,We can discuss this example of yours!
Is the radiance of the sun the entire sun?
More importantly the question should be…Can the Sun exist without the Radiance or can the Radiance exist without the Son?
WJ
Keith,Exactly! It's a no brainer!
Jack
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 18 2011,10:28) Whether he gave it up or not has no bearing because we who have human nature can partake of divine nature now.
(It says he emptied himself and we don't have the fine details as to what he emptied himself of.)Sure, divine nature must be part of the new creation in us, but we still carry around our old bodies and until they are made new, we are burdened by the old still.
Human nature CANNOT partake of the divine nature.KJ
t8 said:
Quote We can NOW partake of divine nature, so I would imagine that he at least partook of divine nature, while sharing in human nature.
There is no such biblical teaching. We CANNOT partake of the incommunicable attributes of God. We can only reflect the communicable attributes such as love and mercy, etc.KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 18 2011,09:46) Human nature CANNOT partake of the divine nature. KJ
Tell that to your buddy Keith, who thinks Jesus is still human AND divine.mike
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 19 2011,02:46) Quote (t8 @ Mar. 18 2011,10:28) Whether he gave it up or not has no bearing because we who have human nature can partake of divine nature now.
(It says he emptied himself and we don't have the fine details as to what he emptied himself of.)Sure, divine nature must be part of the new creation in us, but we still carry around our old bodies and until they are made new, we are burdened by the old still.
Human nature CANNOT partake of the divine nature.KJ
Read the post again KJ.I never said that human nature does.
I said that we can partake of divine nature.Again it is an identity and nature issue that makes you trip up.
Next time you utter a statement like that again, know that I will likely have to correct you on the same issue.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 19 2011,02:49) There is no such biblical teaching. We CANNOT partake of the incommunicable attributes of God. We can only reflect the communicable attributes such as love and mercy, etc. KJ
Brother Peter teaches otherwise.2 Peter 1:4
NIV
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.NASB
For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust.This promise is part of our inheritance as children of God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2011,13:45) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Mar. 18 2011,09:46) Human nature CANNOT partake of the divine nature. KJ
Tell that to your buddy Keith, who thinks Jesus is still human AND divine.mike
Nice observation Mike.At least one of them has to be wrong on this point.
BUMP for WJ.
He complained in the Hot Seat forum that I was being hypocritical for not answering all his questions.
I said that I am very happy to answer any of his questions and that he should highlight any I may have missed answering.
While he brought this up, I thought he should be reminded of this debate that is awaiting his response.
Feel free to concede, reply, or say you need more time WJ on KJ's point that human nature cannot partake of divine nature, and why you both differ on the God/Man doctrine.Quote (t8 @ Mar. 28 2011,19:54) BUMP for WJ. He complained in the Hot Seat forum that I was being hypocritical for not answering all his questions.
I said that I am very happy to answer any of his questions and that he should highlight any I may have missed answering.
While he brought this up, I thought he should be reminded of this debate that is awaiting his response.
Feel free to concede, reply, or say you need more time WJ on KJ's point that human nature cannot partake of divine nature, and why you both differ on the God/Man doctrine.
Like I said, I wasn't the one crying about others not answering questions. I merely have pointed out that you guys accuse others for not doing what you do not do yourselves.WJ
WJ, we are happy to answer all your questions.
But it should be understood that a person is not going to read every topic and post and therefore some questions will go unanswered. In that case, you can bring things to attention if they are being missed. Often a question might be asked a few times and and answer will follow.
The Hot Seat is for questions that are being purposefully avoided. It is one of the reasons it exists. If we were intentionally avoiding questions, then we would hardly have set up a forum to deal with it.
That would be like doing something bad but within the law, and then setting up a law to convict people of such behaviour, thereby condemning yourself.
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