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Kingdoms …… and kings
What it seems to be is that the kingdoms were ruled by kings however the 4th kingdom also is a kingdom that devours the earth and sustains itself without an actual king to lead.
Babylon – Nebucadnezzar
Medo-Persia – Cyrus
Greece – Alexander
Rome – different from the rest (4th kingdom – 4 horns etc, etc)OOps meant 10 horns, 7 crowns ……… harlot woman rides this beast but is not an actual woman symbolises all religion that has false teaching/doctrines
Hi MK,
Colour symbolism tells us the woman wears purple[religion]rides a scarlet [man] beast[many kingdoms].
God [blue] is not part of the equation.
An interesting subject.Hi Jodi:
Quote Quote (942767 @ Dec. 07 2008,19:31)
Hi Jodi:No my God and Father is not a failure, and I am going to continue to preach the truth, and I urge you and Gene and others who preach that all men will eventually be saved to repent and preach the truth so that men will repent and be saved through the gospel. God has not said that all men will be saved. All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and the gospel is preached to them so that God can have mercy on whomever chooses to be reconciled to Him through the Lord Jesus. HE IS THE PROPITIATION FOR THE SINS OF ALL MANKIND, AND THE ONLY WAY THAT MAN CAN COME TO GOD IS THROUGH HIM.
Yes, Jesus is our example and He died in order that we could be resurrected from the dead.
Clearly however, throughout time many people have never heard of him, and those who have and didn't give him much thought are ALL those who will have an opportunity to hear from Jesus in person.
You are making assumptions that there are some who did not hear about God's plan for their salvation, and you may be right, I do not know, but my commission is to go into all of the world and preach the gospel to everyone who wants to hear, and that is what I have done. We as born again Christians are the body of Christ, and so if we are genuine, people should be talking to Jesus when they are interacting with us. Tell me what is so difficult to understand about God's plan for the salvation of humanity? It isn't difficult at all. The problem is that the devil is the author of confusion, and many have been deceived by their false religions and false doctrines.
I have found my Father and God to be extremely merciful with me I have made many mistakes since I have been reconciled to Him. But it is one thing to make mistakes in trying to obey Him and another to practice sin wilfully. God hates sin and he especially hates hyprocrisy.
Quote Pro 6:16 These six [things] doth the LORD hate: yea, seven [are] an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness [that] speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.Yes, and my God is longsuffering not willing that any man should perish, but as the door to the ark was shut in the days of Noah so shall it be in our day also.
Quote 2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 [Seeing] then [that] all these things shall be dissolved, what manner [of persons] ought ye to be in [all] holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. AmenYou say:
Quote Even at that time there will be some who deny him, and these will have to go into punishment in order to be changed. Please give me the scripture that supports this statement.
And the rest of your post:
Quote What is the state of man's darkness? Many people who are dark and evil are that way because of bad genes and a more then horrifying childhood. Evil is a pattern that worsens over time without the intervention of God. The world today does not know God, God is letting man rule and carry evil as far as it may go. When Jesus returns however, this is when healing begins, and at the second resurrection those that died in the utmost state of evil, will start to have their evilness chipped away from them through both healing and discipline. Most really evil people have lived horrible lives since their childhood, they know no trust in anyone or anything. God has to work harder to gain their trust and rebuild their spirit because they are truly broken people. Your idea 942767 of God being longsuffering towards man, not willing that any should perish but all come into repentence, is for YHWH to not take into consideration people's different lives and experiences, treat everyone like they are exactly the same?
Your idea of fairness, consideration and love towards fellow man I find disturbing. It is like asking a two year old to accept Jesus and because they don't understand, you kill them, or speaking the gospel to a deaf person and killing them simply because they couldn't hear you.
Do you think that you God's creature can know the circumstances and hearts of men better that God? My commission is to preach the gospel which is good news to those who will receive it. It is a good deal, all of your sins can be forgiven and you can have a new beginning in life and eternal life in the world to come with no more pain, or suffering, a
nd joy in the presence of a loving creator. This is a wise decision, and I would hope that all will make this one, but I must also let those who want to reject God's plan for their salvation that there is a day of judgment comeing for all mankind wherein men will be judged according to their works. Jesus paid the judgment or punishment for the first death or separation from God because of sin. HE is the propitiation for the sins of all humanity, but he died once unto sin, and he is not going die again. If someone dies in their sins or has not been reconciled to God through him at his coming for the church, there is no more sacrifice for their sins. The second death is eternal separation from God through the destruction of one's body and soul. And so, now I have told you and others who may be reading this post the truth. Which of these choices seems to be that best alternative? Is there anyone who does not understand what I have said here?Quote Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling [them] out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present [you] faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, [be] glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.Quote Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. God Bless
for N H
James 1-26,if anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a thght rein on is tongue,he deceives himself and his religion (or faith) is worthless, the faith accepted byGod as to be pure and faultless and not polluted by the world.Goats
Fear Of Judgment: “The terror of the Lord”
Paul appears to justify speaking about the judgment seat by saying “knowing therefore the terror of the Lord (the terror of the thought of rejection), we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God” (2 Cor. 5:11).
This is to say 'A healthy fear of judgment can persuade men to a better way of life, but by our complete openness to God, through self examination, we can know ourselves to be personally unworthy, but justified through Christ; and so we don't need to think of rejection in the same way as faithless men do'.
We will go through a process of ‘persuading’ our own hearts before the judgment presence of Jesus in the last day; and we should likewise persuade ourselves of His grace and justice now (1 Jn. 3:19 Gk.).
The fear of judgment is again used by Paul as a motivation for obedience in Heb. 2:1-4; 4:1.
An element of fear is not wrong in itself.
Israel in the wilderness had the pillar of fire to remind them of God's close presence, and to thereby motivate them not to sin: “His fear (will) be before your faces, that ye sin not” (Ex. 20:20).
Notice how Isaac's guardian angel is described as “the fear” in Gen. 31:42,53 cp. 48:15,16.
The trumpet blasts which our call to judgment is likened to are based upon the Old Testament blowing of trumpets to mark “the day(s) of your gladness…your solemn days…the beginnings of your months” and also whenever the camp was to move onwards (Num. 10:10).
This same mixture of emotions will fill us when we receive the call; a sense of solemnity, but also of gladness at a new beginning, a moving on towards the promised land.
The knowledge that God is not mocked is a salutary thing in itself, and the propriety of His executing vengeance on those who cast His kindness back in His face is not to be questioned.
But if the chastening of the Lord can stir slothful or rebellious souls into the path of obedience, then the prospect of judgment to come will have wrought a good work in those who cannot at first be moved by love.
But of course it is not the ideal condition.
Many of us need to be warned, but none of us ought to need to live a life of dread with the judgment seat in prospect.
If, starting as some will from fear, we can progress through obedience to pleasurable service, and so to live, it will even perhaps be possible for us to approach the judgment seat in the spirit which John exhorts us to: “Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment. There is no fear in love, for perfect love casteth out fear” (1 Jn. 4:17,18).
This is the spirit which overcomes the trembling of the sinner who knows that he is not yet ripe for grace and moves toward the confidence of the man who could write: “Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness…and not for me only, but also for all them also that love his appearing””.
Much of the Lord's teaching concerned judgment to come.
It was a particular theme of His parables.
An analysis of them reveals that:
He puts far more emphasis on the rejected than on the accepted.
There is the theme of surprise in many of the parables of judgment.
Both worthy and unworthy are surprised at both the process and outcome of judgment.
The day of judgment was an important theme with the Lord.
There is an element of unreality in the way he speaks of the King as being the judge (Mt. 25:40); the implication is that our judgment will be an extremely important event; the King himself is the judge (actually, the King of heaven and earth).
This indicates that the Lord wishes to put before us the picture of those who have been called to the Kingdom but reject His offer.
Sadly we seem to be shying away from this picture as a community, falling victim to the sloppy picture of God peddled by an apostate Christendom.
This stress on rejection is only a continuation of the emphasis of the Old Testament.
The real possibility of rejection at judgment day was evidently a motivator in Paul's life (e.g. 1 Cor. 9:27), and he used “the terror” of the coming day of judgment to persuade men in his teaching of the ecclesias (2 Cor. 5:11), and also in his preaching to the world (e.g. Acts 17:31). Paul's exposition of judgment to come caused Felix to tremble (Acts 24:25).
I don't suppose he would if he walked into many churches today.
The fact is, many will be rejected.
The unforgiving believer will be delivered to the tormentors to pay what is due (Mt. 18:34); God is preparing torture instruments for the punishment of the rejected (Ps. 7:13).
These are awesome descriptions of the self inflicted mental agony in which the rejected will writhe.
The matchless grace of God and His eagerness for our salvation should not be allowed to blunt the impact of these warnings of what we can do to ourselves, more than God doing to us.
Almost certainly, some of those you know today will go through the terrible rejection process which we are going to explore now.
People from all over the world, the living responsible, will see the sign of the Son of man, will know His return is imminent, and wail with the knowledge that they have crucified Him afresh and must now meet Him (Mt. 24:30,31 cp. Rev. 1:7; Zech. 12:10).
Our response to the certain knowledge that His return is imminent will in effect be our judgment.
Condemnation is about having our fears brought upon us. Israel feared the sword, and so God brought the sword upon them (Ez. 11:8).
Passively, subconsciously, for all the blasé nonchalance of some, every man who has even known the Lord fears His wrath and His condemnation.
And their fears will be brought upon them.
Job went through a condemnation experience and then repented, just as Peter did.
He described it as the thing that he had feared coming upon him (Job 3:25).
Prov. 1:27 uses the same Hebrew words to describe latter day condemnation it is the fear of the condemned coming upon them.
In fact, the Proverbs passage would appear to be alluding to Job, and holding him up as a pattern for all those who reject wisdom and thus find themselves condemned.
Note how Jer. 48:44; 49:5 likewise describe condemnation as fear being brought upon people, and Is. 24:18 and other passages speak of the condemned fleeing from “the noise of the fear”. “The fear” is almost a way of saying ‘the judgment of God’ (Lam. 3:47).
The torment of the rejected will be their fear (1 Jn. 4:18). Psychologically, we need to get in touch with our own fears now, face our fears of condemnation eye to eye, and work through them in repenting and coming to believe firmly in God’s gracious acceptance, living in the spirit of the true love which casts out fear.
I know men and women who knew God and walked with the Lord, but now say ‘it means nothing to me’.
They shrug when I nervously mention to them the reality of judgment to come and I’m not very bold at bringing the conversations around to that issue, because it is just so fearsome and of such magnitude.
They tell me that they’re indifferent.
But somewhere deep within them, no matter what good actors they are before the stage of our human eyes, there has to be a deep and awful fear.
And it is that fear which will be revealed and which will grip them in that final day.
Perhaps the greatest mental torment of the rejected will be realizing how they could have been in the Kingdom of God; they will then perceive how great was the potential which they had had in the brief years of their mortality.
Thus Israel had their judgment from God “in the border of Israel” (Ez. 11:11), in Babylon, on the Euphrates, which was intended to be the border of the land promised to Abraham and themselves, his seed.
They were made to realize the potential they had missed, and as it were they were taken to the gate of Eden, to the entry to the promised land, judged there, and thrown out of Paradise.
They were made to realize that they had followed the judgements of this world rather than of God (Ez. 11:12 RVmg.), and that one of the reasons for their condemnation was the way in which they had told some of their brethren that unto them, and not unto those brethren, the land had been promised (Ez. 11:15).
Thus they had acted as if some of their brethren were not really ‘of Israel’.
They were made to remember their words and actions, and now they realized that they were themselves being thrown out of the promised land, the land they had tried to cast their brethren out of.
Hence their judgment “in the border” of that same land.
The forced recollection of such acts and attitudes of unlove, of ungrace, will be punishment enough.
Sorry, forgot to add the link.
To All………..Judgment is the best thing that can happen to anyone, specially if their mind has been opened to recieve it, it is the Process of salvation, the ones called Now are (NOW) going through Fiery Judgments, it burn away the dross in them to purify them. Judgment is a very janissary part of the salvation process, and while it is not enjoyable at the time , it produces the Joy and enjoyment in the end. It is a good thing to come under the Judgment of GOD, it shows His love for us. Like King David Said “thy (ROD) and they Staff does (comfort) me. David know the (ROD) of GOD'S correction , but took comfort in knowing GOD loved him enough to discipline HIM. WE should also take comfort when GOD corrects us also. IMO
peace and love to you all………………..gene
G,
Judgement indeed begins in the house of God by fire.
But how will it be for the godless?[1Peter]
The lake of fire consumes some.Nick………..GOD'S judgments consumes (ALL) for He is the consuming FIRE (intense Judger) of (ALL). IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene
hi to all
i have look at all those quotes in this section boy i am impressed,some said there is no free will ,well then why God has send us is son,if it is not to have the oportunity to use that free will by ether accepted or rejected him,if God set your heart and that there is no way to step out of it ,why make all the fuss and time waisted ,God could have shortened by only bring to live the ones he wanted.
but there is a free will because he send is Son to us so we can be juged on the truth ,Gods truth,that is wath bothers some who dont believe,because ther conscience tel them that the are againt God,by there on free will.the way i see it ,there are two jugement one ongoing and punichment is ongoing has well ,the fact that the rightieous are juged first God can not let there rong action go unpunished (look up David story)and other scriptures.
the second is at the end of the milenium, after the second resurection of goob and bad,this are the peoplel Christ talk abode when he was in capernahum and talk to the scribes and pharesians abode sodom and gomorra,and the one who have done good or apply the universal law by nature it does not mather were the lived.
But the jugement has to occur with satan freed so the conditions will be the same excep for the present of the rightieous who were part of the first resurection,this is time limited after that the bad will try to run out to kill the rightieous and God will destroye them before the apply there wicketness.
now satan and is followers will be trown away in the lake of fire.
the ones who would have accepted Christ who was preached to them by the rightieous(first resurection)would now stand equal to the rightieous,now the healing can begin and now the heavenly jerusalem will com down to earth.wath was the plan of God in the begining,well to me i understand that he wanted to populate the earth with rightieous poeple,
wath is plan now at the end well this is fullfilled.terraricca
The way you have it put together is a bit confusing.
God's plan, to populate the world with righteous people, is still the same as it was from the beginning.
However, God did not want robots to worship him, so he gave angels and us, a free will to choose, obey God and live, or disobey and die. God of course knew the answer to that long before he had us created.
But, God's plan was much bigger than just this little earth, he did not create this wast universe to just populate one planet. In Isaiah 9:7 it says, “of the increase of his government, there will be no end”, how could that be true if this planet becomes filed up?
God tested the angels first, and as you know, a third of them rebelt; than he tested man, he too rebelt. But God had a plan for all that from the beginning, his Son Jesus. He came to die in our stead for our sins, and to teach us how to obey and love God, and all that do will live for ever, and all that don't will die for ever.
But this time we are living in is not the time that determines that, it is the time were God chooses those that will rule and reign with Jesus Christ for a thousand years as kings and priests; all those that will come up in the first resurrection.
When Jesus begins to rule, that is the white throne judgment, he is the one that sits on that throne, and it is during his thousand year reign, that he will judge,teach, all the rest of the people that have lived as they are being resurrected. For the majority of people, this will be there first time they will here about Jesus. If they listen and obey, repent of their sins, they will live, if not, they will die a second death.
There will be no interference from Satan during the thousand years, understanding will be easy, repenting for some may not be so easy.
There will be children born during the thousand years, they will learn only good, they will not experience Satan's evil influence, they will be tested after the thousand years are over and Satan will be loosed for a short time. The bible tells us the sad truth, there will be millions that follow Satan into death, the good news is, Satan too will be thrown into the lake of fire, destroyed for ever.Georg
terraricca………….God made man in this physical state for the purpose of learning , not for the purpose of so-called (FREE WILL) or self salvation by (OUR) So-called free will choices. Nothing could be further from the truth then that. GOD made us this way for the purpose of experiencing good and evil (to KNOW) IT, that means to have a personal relationship with it, not just know (about) good and evil , but learn from personal experience with it, so we can come to love the good and hate the evil. All things are created by GOD for a purpose no chance involved , we don't choose to get old and weak do we, we don't chose where or how we are born do we, we don't chose what country we will be born in, we don't chose to die do we. It is all appointed to us including death. Jesus said we can't even go to him unless the father draw him. WE are here to learn to be appreciative of all things given us. Notice when we are young we are not as appreciative of life, our health, our site, our hearing and Strength, we start learning to appreciate them as we begin to loose them, so really our losses are our gains in what they produce in our understanding to (appreciate) what we have been given, and what better way then to give them and then take them away to create appreciation in us. In fact it says the whole creation was MADE SUBJECT to VANITY, for the very purposes of GOD. WE are (ALL) learning from this life no matter who we are or where we live or what religion we are (all) are learning by GOD effectually working in all His creation. IMO
peace and love……………..gene
hi gene
so there is no free will ? so wen you said i go to the movies it is compultion who force you to go ?or if you decied to go to a vacation ogain it is that compultion force ?or you want to get maried to this or that it is that compultion in you but not you who make the decition?
free will means that you are responsable for the actions you take based on the knowledge available to you at the time,thing it over.God is just and impartial,he those not punish the rightieous ones.!!!!!!!!!!!!
terraricca………..All those you listed are (INFLUENCED) Desires, nothing (FREE) about it. The word (FREE) means free of (any) influence , What you are doing is chosing from what you want to do and what you want to do is what (INFLUENCED) YOU Choice. That is why it says we are saved be (GRACE) (God's influencing on the heart) this influence of God (CAUSES) you to chose His way. Nothing (FREE) about it. Man is saved apart from (HIS) “Self CHOICES”. For you are saved by grace and that (NOT) of yourselves, Not by your works (of FREE self choices) lest any should BOAST, it is a Gift from GOD. Again for you are (created) unto righteousness , we do no chose our way to righteousness, we are CREATED (by GOD) unto righteousness) . For He (God) works in us (BOTH TO WILL) and to good works. Its a work of GOD that transforms us not or (So-called ) “FREE WILL” Choices. We are HIS (GOD'S WORKMANSHIP) NOT OUR OWN. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Nov. 17 2009,17:58) terraricca………..All those you listed are (INFLUENCED) Desires, nothing (FREE) about it. The word (FREE) means free of (any) influence , What you are doing is chosing from what you want to do and what you want to do is what (INFLUENCED) YOU Choice. That is why it says we are saved be (GRACE) (God's influencing on the heart) this influence of God (CAUSES) you to chose His way. Nothing (FREE) about it. Man is saved apart from (HIS) “Self CHOICES”. For you are saved by grace and that (NOT) of yourselves, Not by your works (of FREE self choices) lest any should BOAST, it is a Gift from GOD. Again for you are (created) unto righteousness , we do no chose our way to righteousness, we are CREATED (by GOD) unto righteousness) . For He (God) works in us (BOTH TO WILL) and to good works. Its a work of GOD that transforms us not or (So-called ) “FREE WILL” Choices. We are HIS (GOD'S WORKMANSHIP) NOT OUR OWN. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Hey Gene: Many things we agree on some things we don't. I find none of the teachings of Jesus that align with what you are saying about free will.In fact Jesus came to set us free! Jesus came to break the bonds of control of religion. He came to set the captives free from ritualistic works through religious influence. He said take my yoke upon you for my burden(requirement) is(easy) lite(or light). Jesus did the work of God and we enter his rest. No more works of any kind to get to God. All Jesus taught was pertaining to mankind re- connecting with God(in the mind). Those in sin believed they were separated from God. Jesus came to seek and to save those who were lost(thought they were separated from God). We can't get saved, he already saved us through his words of truth. We don't get whole, we are made whole through Jesus. If we believe it is done we recieve. If we believe that it hasn't been done then we must do it ourselves. This is not possible. If we dis-believe we still are whole we just don't know it or experience it. The work is done.We have been saved, sanctified, cleansed and made whole by Jesus. To enter in is only by believing.
Does being a captive puppet on a string, caused to say and do whatever the puppeteer's whim is, sound like good news to you? Not me!(just my opinion) God Bless you always, TKTK………..Everything you said is a salvation (caused) by GOD, (OUR) so-called FREE WILL Choices had nothing to do with it. Jesus plainly said (NO) Man (CAN) come unto me unless the FATHER (draw) Him. GOD puts His commandments into US He writes them on our Hearts through the operation of (HIS) Spirit, we do not Chose to be saved we are chosen to be save by GOD HIMSELF> I maintain it is a work of GOD that saves Us , Not MY or anyones so-called “Free WILL” choices. Jesus said (THY) kingdom come (THY) WILL be done , no where does it say His will is done by our “FREE WILL” Choices. Salvation is a work of GOD ALONE through the operation of GRACE (God's influencing on the Hear) that is GOD'S WORK not ours. God creates righteousness in us, we do not chose it, OUR Choice has nothing to do with it , its GOD'S Choice That effects HIS Will on all Creation. I Know to see ourselves as puppets on a string effects us adversely , but if you understand there is (ONLY) ONE right way to live and the way is for all, by GOD indwelling us and effecting HIS (PERFECT) Will in us. Why do you find it so offensive then, Even Jesus said “Not (MY) WILL but (THY WILL) be done. I hope and pray GOD does take over (MY) WILL and Cause (HIS WILL) to be in my life. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
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