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Quote (Not3in1 @ June 10 2009,20:15) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,05:40) Quote (Gene @ June 10 2009,13:21) Jodi……….God has given you a ministry of bringing this out, don't let any discourage you , we are all held accountable to what GOD has revealed unto us, it is good for edification, to Saints, the true believers who have the Spirit of truth in them. They do see the logic and soundness of the scriptures you have posted and others Just aren't able to recieve it. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………………….gene
Hi GeneWe realize that you and Jodi and GM think that you are the only ones around here with the Spirit of truth. How arrogant and foolish! IMO.
WJ
Aw, come on now bro…..You forgot to add yourself, Nick, Kathi, Georg and Irene – and me!!!
We all think we have the corner market on TRUTH. And interestingly enough, we all have different truths to share! Sure, we're open to other's ideas (but we're pretty much convinced already of our own beliefs).
Jodi is passionate about her subject, haven't we all been there? For me, it was the Trinity and the conception of Jesus. And there for a while, I couldn't talk about anything but preexistence. We all get in our grooves and want that intense verbal-volleyball. When someone shuts us down, it's frustrating, and we may not always act as Christ-like as we should.
But we've all been foolish in thinking we know it all on any given subject – right? So, let's cut each other a break, huh?
Patience, long-suffering, consideration, loving those who curse us…..all that good Christian stuff!
Love,
Mandy
Hi MandyAwe come on what? Why should I add the names you mention. As far as I know none of them make the claims that Gene and Jodi and GM make.
No I have never claimed to be the only one with the “Spirit of Truth” or that the Trinitarians are the “True Brothers” of the faith like Gene and Jodi and GM have infered, that everyone who doesnt believe what they believe are in Babylon or worshipping satan or not even true brothers with the Spirit.
These are the words from Genes own mouth…
Quote (Gene @ June 10 2009,13:21) “it is good for edification, to Saints, the true believers who have the Spirit of truth in them.” Its one thing to go after percieved false doctrine, but attackng someones person and judging their relationship with God is wrong.
Read their words. Sure there should be Love and patience.
But High minded elitist attitudes should be called out. IMO
Blessings WJ
Quote (942767 @ June 11 2009,16:22) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,15:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2009,12:03) Hi Jodi,
Funny things that these KINGS take one third of the angels with them.
Jesus saw Satan falling from heaven[lk10]
Like I said I go by what the scriptures say, which is that the dragon is directly said to represent kings. You don't think it is possible that a group of kings could have followers, and drag a third of them down with them?Did Hitler have followers, how about Stalin? Does Bin Laden have followers? Did Hitler and his men fall?
Just because the scriptures speak in symbolism that does not mean we should let our imaginations run wild and create our own understanding of them.
The bible says that the dragon represents KINGS, I'm going to stick with that.
Hi Jodi:Looking at the following scriptures, I believe the dragon represents the Evil spirit dwelling within his angels or messengers rather than the kings.
Quote Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.Revelation 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Throughout history, kings could easily be referred to as beasts, because that is exactly what they act like, creatures who have no clue to who or what God or His ways are. The only clue that they have is that of their own natural instincts of selfish acts serving the flesh.
Love in Christ to you too, Jodi
Hi Mandy
By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
W.J. You are absolutely right. I do not claim to know it all. In some things I am sure, very sure, and I will say that. I do not believe in a trinity doctrine for instance and do believe that there is a Satan, who is deceives people by making them believe that he is the Angel of Light. Some like Jodi and Gene do not even believe that there is a Satan. There are so many Scriptures that there is no other way for me.
I am going to be so glad when Christ will return and set things straight. No more confusion.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ, nice of you to speak of me
Are you ever going to get back to me from my latest post I have addressed to you on the beelzebub thread, or have you decided it's pointless?
It's o.k., I understand, sometimes I get tired of debating certain topics too, especially when you think your just going around in circles. That happens quite a lot around here.
Right now I am still working on a post for Nick on man and wicked spirits, and one for Bodhitharta on Universal Salvation, and Gene for his excellent post on 'the man of sin'. My brain is feeling rather fried however at this moment, and what I really need to be doing is getting three kids, a puppy and my husband all ready for going camping this weekend! Yikes, that is a serious chore, and the worst part is the unpacking when we get back, UUGG! But it's all actually worth it!
To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out?
How about I save Mandy some expense and call myself out….yes I am human and at times can have a short temper and be a smart ass. I already told Kathi that I am sorry if she is sincere about her reasons for not wanting to discuss the adversary. I am being honest when I say that I feel sorry for the way she holds certain views, finding them unfortunate.
I think several of us should lighten up a bit. I am trying to do that, especially with Nick, who always pushes my buttons. This whole forum has been nothing but a great learning experience for me, and for that I am thankful to everyone.
We are going to keep on fighting and bickering just like any other family does, but let's never forget that we all know one day we will be united in truth, as Irene so graciously likes to remind us.
Have a good night WJ, Jodi
Funny Irene, I actually had that last bit written mentioning you, before I read your last post to W.J.
Peace and love to you and Georg, Jodi
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hey Keith,Sorry bro, I didn't mean to single you out necessarily. I'm not here much anymore (I pop in and out). So, I don't follow every thread like I used to.
I read what you wrote and I was only trying to appeal to your maturity in Christ. To whom much is given, much is expected. And you have been given a lot more than me (I know that much!).
Anyway, let's try to encourage one another as the days grow shorter….you know how much you long for encouragement! It's difficult when you need it and no one's giving it out. Maybe Jodi, Gene and Adam just need some encouragement instead of correction? I don't know…that's all I was trying to say.
Love you always,
MandyQuote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,01:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ, nice of you to speak of me Are you ever going to get back to me from my latest post I have addressed to you on the beelzebub thread, or have you decided it's pointless?
It's o.k., I understand, sometimes I get tired of debating certain topics too, especially when you think your just going around in circles. That happens quite a lot around here.
Right now I am still working on a post for Nick on man and wicked spirits, and one for Bodhitharta on Universal Salvation, and Gene for his excellent post on 'the man of sin'. My brain is feeling rather fried however at this moment, and what I really need to be doing is getting three kids, a puppy and my husband all ready for going camping this weekend! Yikes, that is a serious chore, and the worst part is the unpacking when we get back, UUGG! But it's all actually worth it!
To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out?
How about I save Mandy some expense and call myself out….yes I am human and at times can have a short temper and be a smart ass. I already told Kathi that I am sorry if she is sincere about her reasons for not wanting to discuss the adversary. I am being honest when I say that I feel sorry for the way she holds certain views, finding them unfortunate.
I think several of us should lighten up a bit. I am trying to do that, especially with Nick, who always pushes my buttons. This whole forum has been nothing but a great learning experience for me, and for that I am thankful to everyone.
We are going to keep on fighting and bickering just like any other family does, but let's never forget that we all know one day we will be united in truth, as Irene so graciously likes to remind us.
Have a good night WJ, Jodi
Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,01:35) To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out? Where did I ask Mandy “to turn on other brethren”?
I only asked her why she called me out and not you or Gene or GM.
I may respond to your post but it is probably pointless.
Like Kathi, I would rather discuss other things, and it sure isnt because I see any shred of truth in your teachings.
And I will also admit at times that I get stern. But I have never accused anyone of worshipping satan or the devil and infering that they were not believers or saved!
So have a good night and dont let the “boogie man” scare you!
Just kidding!Blessings WJ
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,01:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hey Keith,Sorry bro, I didn't mean to single you out necessarily. I'm not here much anymore (I pop in and out). So, I don't follow every thread like I used to.
I read what you wrote and I was only trying to appeal to your maturity in Christ. To whom much is given, much is expected. And you have been given a lot more than me (I know that much!).
Anyway, let's try to encourage one another as the days grow shorter….you know how much you long for encouragement! It's difficult when you need it and no one's giving it out. Maybe Jodi, Gene and Adam just need some encouragement instead of correction? I don't know…that's all I was trying to say.
Love you always,
Mandy
Hi MandyNo problem.
You know I care for you. Even though we are like iron that sharpens iron.
Love and blessings to you also.
Keith
Hi Jodi,
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.You should understand more about the visible heavens as this sign [gen1] occurred in 1997 apparently.
Hi Jodi,
Revelation 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.The time is the millenium.
Read Rev 20Satan is in prison.[Rev 20.2]
So he was and is not.He will ascend again out of this pit to stir up the nations of natural men he still owns.[Rev 20.3,7]
He will go to perdition. [Rev20.10]10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
So the kings are not the beast but the horns and the mountains that cling to this beast, Satan.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,18:04) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,01:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ, nice of you to speak of me Are you ever going to get back to me from my latest post I have addressed to you on the beelzebub thread, or have you decided it's pointless?
It's o.k., I understand, sometimes I get tired of debating certain topics too, especially when you think your just going around in circles. That happens quite a lot around here.
Right now I am still working on a post for Nick on man and wicked spirits, and one for Bodhitharta on Universal Salvation, and Gene for his excellent post on 'the man of sin'. My brain is feeling rather fried however at this moment, and what I really need to be doing is getting three kids, a puppy and my husband all ready for going camping this weekend! Yikes, that is a serious chore, and the worst part is the unpacking when we get back, UUGG! But it's all actually worth it!
To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out?
How about I save Mandy some expense and call myself out….yes I am human and at times can have a short temper and be a smart ass. I already told Kathi that I am sorry if she is sincere about her reasons for not wanting to discuss the adversary. I am being honest when I say that I feel sorry for the way she holds certain views, finding them unfortunate.
I think several of us should lighten up a bit. I am trying to do that, especially with Nick, who always pushes my buttons. This whole forum has been nothing but a great learning experience for me, and for that I am thankful to everyone.
We are going to keep on fighting and bickering just like any other family does, but let's never forget that we all know one day we will be united in truth, as Irene so graciously likes to remind us.
Have a good night WJ, Jodi
Hi Jodi
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,01:35) To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out? Where did I ask Mandy “to turn on other brethren”?
I only asked her why she called me out and not you or Gene or GM.
I may respond to your post but it is probably pointless.
Like Kathi, I would rather discuss other things, and it sure isnt because I see any shred of truth in your teachings.
And I will also admit at times that I get stern. But I have never accused anyone of worshipping satan or the devil and infering that they were not believers or saved!
So have a good night and dont let the “boogie man” scare you!
Just kidding!Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,Not sure if you were specifically referring me to all those things you said, because most of them aren't true.
What is true, and I stand behind is that IMO when people give supernatural powers to any other being other then God they are making a false god, and when they fear that god I see that as a form of worship. So any person who believes that the adversary is a rebel spirit who has supernatural powers to curse, I believe they are in a way worshiping a false god.
What is completely not true is me accusing people that they are not saved. I am a Universal Salvationist, which would mean that I believe ALL people will come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved. So I would never tell anyone that they are not saved.
I have told people that I believe they are denying certain scriptures, but I have never accused anyone of not being a believer.
Just wanted to clarify all that.
Blessings to you too, Jodi
Nick………You have the time right, except the, beast is not a person or being, but EVIL Spirit that works in the whole earth, even in the nature of animals and when it is removed even animal natures change. Because that (EVIL SPIRIT not a BEING) is what GOD removes from the earth at the beginning of the Millennium reign of Christ and the Saints. At the the end it is released again in the earth and immediately effect all the inhabitants of the earth, except for the Saints and Jesus, because they have GOD”S Spirit in them and can not be decieved by the influence of EVIL. The point GOD is proving by this is that He must be IN you in order to be keep from falling, no matter how much good you have been taught as the inhabitants of the earth were for a 1000 years they without GOD'S Spirit in them turned back to evil immediately when it is released back on earth. This is a very big POINT GOD is proving by this to ALL. HE MUST (KEEP) YOU ALWAYS OR YOU WILL FALL UNDER THE WRONG INFLUENCES, BIG POINT GOD IS MAKING . IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,01:35) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ, nice of you to speak of me Are you ever going to get back to me from my latest post I have addressed to you on the beelzebub thread, or have you decided it's pointless?
It's o.k., I understand, sometimes I get tired of debating certain topics too, especially when you think your just going around in circles. That happens quite a lot around here.
Right now I am still working on a post for Nick on man and wicked spirits, and one for Bodhitharta on Universal Salvation, and Gene for his excellent post on 'the man of sin'. My brain is feeling rather fried however at this moment, and what I really need to be doing is getting three kids, a puppy and my husband all ready for going camping this weekend! Yikes, that is a serious chore, and the worst part is the unpacking when we get back, UUGG! But it's all actually worth it!
To get back to it though, why after all the great advice Mandy gave to us, are you asking Mandy to turn on other brethren because she called you out?
How about I save Mandy some expense and call myself out….yes I am human and at times can have a short temper and be a smart ass. I already told Kathi that I am sorry if she is sincere about her reasons for not wanting to discuss the adversary. I am being honest when I say that I feel sorry for the way she holds certain views, finding them unfortunate.
I think several of us should lighten up a bit. I am trying to do that, especially with Nick, who always pushes my buttons. This whole forum has been nothing but a great learning experience for me, and for that I am thankful to everyone.
We are going to keep on fighting and bickering just like any other family does, but let's never forget that we all know one day we will be united in truth, as Irene so graciously likes to remind us.
Have a good night WJ, Jodi
Dear Jodi,
No hard feelings! God can use even our failures to bring truths in scripture alive. He did that for me through you in Jude 1, thank you.For a few weeks God has been teaching me about the futility of arguments and how the “adversary” seeks to devour our time. I suppose that Michael the archangel could see that arguing with satan over something that was truly irrelevant would be especially pointless. I think that quite possibly Jude 1:9 is more about how futile a debate with the adversary is and Michael is putting an end to it. Perhaps the purpose of the verse it isn't about what the body of Moses is at all.
Sometimes the adversary wants to “join us for tea,” we must not let him in, for there would be no benefit. He would never come to build us up in the Lord for he is not our encourager but our destroyer seeking only to cunningly belittle us and trying to leave us discouraged. Our time would be gone and possibly our joy.
Let these verses in Jude encourage you:
Jude 20-25
20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,
21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.
22 And have mercy on some, who are doubting;
23 save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.
NASUThere is an old redneck proverb that I was told and it has always been a humorous reminder to me and it goes like this:
You can wrestle a skunk and win but you still come up stinking
God bless,
KathiQuote (Gene @ June 12 2009,03:25) Nick………You have the time right, except the, beast is not a person or being, but EVIL Spirit that works in the whole earth, even in the nature of animals and when it is removed even animal natures change. Because that (EVIL SPIRIT not a BEING) is what GOD removes from the earth at the beginning of the Millennium reign of Christ and the Saints. At the the end it is released again in the earth and immediately effect all the inhabitants of the earth, except for the Saints and Jesus, because they have GOD”S Spirit in them and can not be decieved by the influence of EVIL. The point GOD is proving by this is that He must be IN you in order to be keep from falling, no matter how much good you have been taught as the inhabitants of the earth were for a 1000 years they without GOD'S Spirit in them turned back to evil immediately when it is released back on earth. This is a very big POINT GOD is proving by this to ALL. HE MUST (KEEP) YOU ALWAYS OR YOU WILL FALL UNDER THE WRONG INFLUENCES, BIG POINT GOD IS MAKING . IMO peace and love……………………gene
Amen to that Gene!!Quote (Gene @ June 12 2009,03:25) Nick………You have the time right, except the, beast is not a person or being, but EVIL Spirit that works in the whole earth, even in the nature of animals and when it is removed even animal natures change. Because that (EVIL SPIRIT not a BEING) is what GOD removes from the earth at the beginning of the Millennium reign of Christ and the Saints. At the the end it is released again in the earth and immediately effect all the inhabitants of the earth, except for the Saints and Jesus, because they have GOD”S Spirit in them and can not be decieved by the influence of EVIL. The point GOD is proving by this is that He must be IN you in order to be keep from falling, no matter how much good you have been taught as the inhabitants of the earth were for a 1000 years they without GOD'S Spirit in them turned back to evil immediately when it is released back on earth. This is a very big POINT GOD is proving by this to ALL. HE MUST (KEEP) YOU ALWAYS OR YOU WILL FALL UNDER THE WRONG INFLUENCES, BIG POINT GOD IS MAKING . IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
So parts of men and animals are imprisoned.
You have your own odd bible.G,
So you look at scripture to find a lesson God is trying to teach and once you think you have found it the rest is superfluous to your needs. Scripture is not sacred to you but a series messages hidden amongst rubbish?Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,16:42) Quote (942767 @ June 11 2009,16:22) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 11 2009,15:45) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2009,12:03) Hi Jodi,
Funny things that these KINGS take one third of the angels with them.
Jesus saw Satan falling from heaven[lk10]
Like I said I go by what the scriptures say, which is that the dragon is directly said to represent kings. You don't think it is possible that a group of kings could have followers, and drag a third of them down with them?Did Hitler have followers, how about Stalin? Does Bin Laden have followers? Did Hitler and his men fall?
Just because the scriptures speak in symbolism that does not mean we should let our imaginations run wild and create our own understanding of them.
The bible says that the dragon represents KINGS, I'm going to stick with that.
Hi Jodi:Looking at the following scriptures, I believe the dragon represents the Evil spirit dwelling within his angels or messengers rather than the kings.
Quote Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Revelation 12:1 Now a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars. 2 Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth. 3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born.Revelation 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
Throughout history, kings could easily be referred to as beasts, because that is exactly what they act like, creatures who have no clue to who or what God or His ways are. The only clue that they have is that of their own natural instincts of selfish acts serving the flesh.
Love in Christ to you too, Jodi
Hi Jodi:The fiery Red Dragon is common to the seven heads and ten horns. And this is the reason I am saying that the Dragon is that evil spirit dwelling within these kings.
Also, the scripture states that Michael and his angels fought and Dragon and his angels fought.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Not3in1 @ June 11 2009,17:42) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 11 2009,16:45) Hi Mandy By the way, didn’t you see how Jodi “spurned” and “patronized” Kathi?
Yet you make comment about what I said?
Why didn’t you speak to the mean Spirit that Jodi and Gene has shown towards those who disagree with them?
Blessings WJ
Hey Keith,Sorry bro, I didn't mean to single you out necessarily. I'm not here much anymore (I pop in and out). So, I don't follow every thread like I used to.
I read what you wrote and I was only trying to appeal to your maturity in Christ. To whom much is given, much is expected. And you have been given a lot more than me (I know that much!).
Anyway, let's try to encourage one another as the days grow shorter….you know how much you long for encouragement! It's difficult when you need it and no one's giving it out. Maybe Jodi, Gene and Adam just need some encouragement instead of correction? I don't know…that's all I was trying to say.
Love you always,
Mandy
May God bless you Sis,
For such encouraging words. I don't know why our brother WJ mentioning my name often. You might have noticed how I have kept myself away from confrontations these days. I always appreciate your way of dealing since the beginning in this forum. That is the spirit of Christ God bestowed on us which edifys the church.Thanks and love
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 11 2009,19:10) Hi Jodi,
Revelation 17:7 But the angel said to me, “Why did you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and the ten horns. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.The time is the millenium.
Read Rev 20Satan is in prison.[Rev 20.2]
So he was and is not.He will ascend again out of this pit to stir up the nations of natural men he still owns.[Rev 20.3,7]
He will go to perdition. [Rev20.10]10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.
So the kings are not the beast but the horns and the mountains that cling to this beast, Satan.
Nick you still have not shown any proof from scripture that the adversary ever represents a rebel super powerful spirit being.What does Jesus DEFINE satan as being?
A man having in mind the things of MEN, and he also said woe to the world because of the offenses, of which come FROM MAN!
What was Jesus example for the two masters of which we can only have one, God and mammon.
What does Paul refer to us being enslaved by?
Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Our old man was crucified with Jesus, that the body of sin might be done away with, not some temptation from invisible beings would be done away with.
The adversary that RULES over all mankind, including KINGS is the body of sin with it’s passions and desires. The entire world exist under this enslavement. As Jesus says out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, there is no authority to twist the words of Jesus and say that out of the influence of invisible creatures the heart of man proceeds with evil thoughts. Paul tells us SPECIFICALLY WHO the INVENTORS of EVIL THINGS are.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
Should we corrupt the simplicity of Jesus and Paul’s words? Out of the heart proceeds evil, not out of invisible beings inspiring our hearts, do we do evil.
Nick show me a scripture that says rebel spirits INVENT evil and then man chooses to follow that evil?
Because humans did not retain God in their knowledge God gave them over to a DEBASED MIND, which is a mind we see in the bible likened to animals…..animals who exist living solely on their natural instincts.
Evil does not exist because God ALLOWS invisible rebel spirits to go around influencing man to do evil.
Paul clearly tells us that our own debased minds FILL us with unrighteousness.
In the beginning of Revelation who is the devil? The devil is shown directly to be a human who is persecuting Christians.
There is no authority to create our own definition of adversary.
Kings serve mammon, GREED, and where does Jesus tells us greed comes from?
Mark 7:21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.'”
All scripture forms a circle of truth. Jesus says to be satan is to have in mind the things of men, he says woe to the world because of man’s offenses, he tells us precisely where those offenses come from. So when we see Kings being likened to dragons doing evil, it is scriptural truth to define that evil coming from within those Kings themselves.
God says that He is the one that determines the Nations, He brings about their RISE and fall. Those nations have evil because of man’s own heart, because of man’s own ability to invent evil ways.
In Revelation we see the symbolic use of beasts, including a dragon. We also see this in Daniel, and as well, in the OT we see several examples of man being likened or referred to as animals, or beasts.
Psalms 73:21 Thus my heart was grieved, And I was vexed in my mind. 22 I was so foolish and ignorant; I was like a beast before You.
Foolishness comes not from some conscience decision to follow the whispers of some rebel spirit, but it comes from ignorance, like that of an animal. We are all born ignorant, and we need God’s Spirit to bring us into truth and righteousness.
Daniel 7:17 'Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth.
The Kings arise out of the earth, should we take that literally, like some like to take the dragon’s fall from heaven, literally?
23 “Thus he said: 'The fourth beast shall be A fourth kingdom on earth, Which shall be different from all other kingdoms, And shall devour the whole earth, Trample it and break it in pieces. 24 The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings. 25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time. 26 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever. 27 Then the kingdom and dominion, And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High. His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.'
Should we take the RISE as being literal? Maybe I should make up a story that says the kings are really fallen angels in disguise so that is why they are able to rise, because they have the power to fly. =)
2Pe 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves.
Humans speak evil not because they are listening to rebel whispering spirits, but because they are ignorant and without God all they have to rely on for understanding is their own
nature.Psalm 49:20 A man who is in honor, yet does not understand, Is like the beasts that perish.
Jeremiah 34:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the Lord, when Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon and all his army, all the kingdoms of the earth under his dominion, and all the people, fought against Jerusalem and all its cities, saying,
The dominion of evil is always shown to be men.
Jeremiah 51:24 “And I will repay Babylon And all the inhabitants of Chaldea For all the evil they have done In Zion in your sight,” says the Lord. 25 “Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, Who destroys all the earth,” says the Lord. “And I will stretch out My hand against you, Roll you down from the rocks, And make you a burnt mountain. 26 They shall not take from you a stone for a corner Nor a stone for a foundation, But you shall be desolate forever,” says the Lord. 27 Set up a banner in the land, Blow the trumpet among the nations! Prepare the nations against her, Call the kingdoms together against her: Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz. Appoint a general against her; Cause the horses to come up like the bristling locusts. 28 Prepare against her the nations, With the kings of the Medes, Its governors and all its rulers, All the land of his dominion. 29 And the land will tremble and sorrow; For every purpose of the Lord shall be performed against Babylon, To make the land of Babylon a desolation without inhabitant. 30 The mighty men of Babylon have ceased fighting, They have remained in their strongholds; Their might has failed, They became like women; They have burned her dwelling places, The bars of her gate are broken. 31 One runner will run to meet another, And one messenger to meet another, To show the king of Babylon that his city is taken on all sides; 32 The passages are blocked, The reeds they have burned with fire, And the men of war are terrified. 33 For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor When it is time to thresh her; Yet a little while And the time of her harvest will come.” 34 “Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon Has devoured me, he has crushed me; He has made me an empty vessel, He has swallowed me up like a monster; He has filled his stomach with my delicacies, He has spit me out.
Da 4:22 it is you, O king, who have grown and become strong; for your greatness has grown and reaches to the heavens, and your dominion to the end of the earth.
The KING reaches the heavens, and it is his DOMINION of darkness, that exists.
Da 7:12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
If someone who has dominion is said to have grown in greatness that reaches the heavens, then at some point when that dominion is taken away, it then could rightly be said that they FELL FROM HEAVEN!
Da 11:3 Then a mighty king shall arise, who shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
The mighty KING will ARISE and rule with great DOMINION, and do according to HIS WILL!
Notice the king is following his will, not the influences of some spirit beings will.
Nick I have heard you speak of the dominion of darkness. Daniel shows that the dominion of darkness comes from the rule of human beings, KINGS.
Da 7:26 'But the court shall be seated, And they shall take away his dominion, To consume and destroy it forever.
Who’s dominion Nick? Who is the “his” referring to in Daniel 7:26?
There is nothing in these scriptures that speak of invisible manipulating rebel spirits.
Daniel 11:36 “Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done. 37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. 38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.
Habakkuk 2:9 “Woe to him who covets evil gain for his house, That he may set his nest on high, That he may be delivered from the power of disaster! 10 You give shameful counsel to your house, Cutting off many peoples, And sin against your soul. 11 For the stone will cry out from the wall, And the beam from the timbers will answer it. 12 “Woe to him who builds a town with bloodshed, Who establishes a city by iniquity!
Kings and people follow their flesh for their own gain. Jesus defines satan as having in mind the things of men. Kings do not follow invisible rebel spirits. Jesus says that from man's own heart comes greed. Jesus said that man cannot serve TWO MASTERS, that man cannot serve God and mammon.
Jude 1:15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” 16 These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage.
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