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Nick……….That a cop out, I as well as Jodi and many other give plenty of scriptures to explain what we are saying, its you ignorance and Arrogance the hinders the site. Jodi has Just posted a wonderful explanation about, what Jude was saying concerning the body of Moses and you come back with , “we are vaguely aware at times”, as a defense for you lack of understanding. Don't you understand that hinders growth Here. She used many scriptures to prove her points and you only spew out insults and ignorant commits. You yourself are acting as an adversary to the growth of this site by your lack of even trying to understand what others are saying. A good monitor would try to see what each of us can and do offer to this site and encourage us. There has been a lot of real good things brought out here that can add to all of our growth and correct our thinking about things. Get your PRIDE out of the way and start helping instead of hindering Growth, IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Jodi………I never really understood what Jude was talking about concerning depute over the body of Moses before, until your explanation, wonderful Job Sis. It so encourages me to see the SPIRIT of GOD at work in brethren, It makes me want to jump for JOY. IMO
peace and Love to you and your…………………………..gene
Quote (Not3in1 @ June 07 2009,18:38) Quote (Gene @ June 06 2009,03:31) And if you retaliate to him He simple gives you a tile, even it is He who started and drew you into saying what you say to him.
Perhaps a better Moderator would be one that is not so personally active in the froums?I always thought that t8 handed out the warnings – not Nick? It would be difficult for Nick to remain subjective as he is the main contributor here? Anyway, my two cents.
Jodi and Gene,
I have noticed that lately, a few of the conversations that have stayed on track (and were respectfully carried out), just ignored Nick's jabs and continued their debate. He'll get the picture eventually if you can do this. That being said, I have also been very encouraged by Nick, and I have learned a lot from him. But if he is frustrating you, just try to ignore the comments made and move on. I enjoy hearing what you two have to say!
And it's always frustrating when the insight on any given subject turns into a “fight with Nick”. Love,
Mandy
Thanks Mandy, very good advice!It can be self satisfying to make come backs at Nick, but your right it's not pleasing to those who have to see it occur, and it certainly serves no good service to the forum, so I will try hard just to ignore those types of posts, and really stick to the subject.
Thanks again and love to you, Jodi
Quote (Gene @ June 08 2009,04:16) Nick……….That a cop out, I as well as Jodi and many other give plenty of scriptures to explain what we are saying, its you ignorance and Arrogance the hinders the site. Jodi has Just posted a wonderful explanation about, what Jude was saying concerning the body of Moses and you come back with , “we are vaguely aware at times”, as a defense for you lack of understanding. Don't you understand that hinders growth Here. She used many scriptures to prove her points and you only spew out insults and ignorant commits. You yourself are acting as an adversary to the growth of this site by your lack of even trying to understand what others are saying. A good monitor would try to see what each of us can and do offer to this site and encourage us. There has been a lot of real good things brought out here that can add to all of our growth and correct our thinking about things. Get your PRIDE out of the way and start helping instead of hindering Growth, IMO peace and love………………………………….gene
G,
Growth into gnostic or judaic thought is not really growth is it?Nick……….You have no idea what you are talking about, Just another ploy to evade the real issues here,and labeling and postering yourself as some know it all, Jodi and I and other post many scriptures to show what we are saying , But you take the privileged of just ignoring them and then making some ignorant commit that make no sense at all to anyone. You have not idea what Gnostic of Judaic thoughts are just pure nonsense to evade the real issues being brought up and explained Here. The problem Here seems to be your self PRIDE and IGNORANCE. Labeling others is always a sign of ignorance and evades the true issues. If you cant give you reason for disagreement then you would be better keeping you mouth closed. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
G,
Care with judging others as it draws divine attention to yourself.
Stick to the path of truth and leave speculations behind.
Attack false doctrines but not other people.Nick……… Shouldn't you take your own advice, its not the doctrine its the personal attacks on our intelligence instead of addressing what we are saying, or the quotes we use, by labeling us. Labeling what a person says is the same as attacking their person. If you can only accuse others by labeling what they say as a Gnostic or some other label in your preconceived mind and not give any constructive reason for you commit, then why get upset if we fire back at your ignorance then. Are you not drawing divine attention to yourself by doing that. If you disagree with some one then please have the (common) decency to give your reasons, instead of Labeling them. Remember Nick it says all Hypocrites will have their part in the lake of fire. A defense is (NOT) and attack, Were not the ones going around labeling people Here are we and casting insults at them, you are. If you could just stick with the subject matter instead of avoiding them by labeling other we would not be having these problems here. IMO
peace and love……………………………….gene
G,
You should listen to scripture.
Your own ideas are weak in comparison.
Scripture does not need your additions to be graspedBro Gene,
Can you pin-point when you were sucked into a “fight with Nick”?
If you can, you can prevent it from happening again.
Love you,
MandyHi not3,
Anyone who presents their own speculations as equivalent to scripture, adds to scripture and and even denies the words of Jesus [about Satan] can expect a response.Nick………..show ME one (SPECULATION), Its not my fault you don't know what a (Word) OR spirit IS. You denying what we say without any scripture back up is what is speculation if you ask me. Indoctrination in false teaching gives no one the right to accuse other of “speculations” because their understanding is not in line with theirs. Jodi posted clear scriptures and you denying them for you (PERSONAL) conviction is what i call speculation, not her or my posted scriptures. someone who can't understand what scriptures say is hardly in a position to say someone is speculating on anything else as far as that goes. IMO
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2009,12:52) Hi not3,
Anyone who presents their own speculations as equivalent to scripture, adds to scripture and and even denies the words of Jesus [about Satan] can expect a response.
Indeed everyone does what you speak of here, including you.But so often you put folks on the defensive instead of on the path to finding the correct answer, it's a shame really. Instead of it being all about scripture, it ends up being all about you! Haven't you noticed? Maybe you have – maybe you enjoy it?
As someone who only pops in here and there….it's annoying to find pages of pointing fingers between you and other brother's and sister's, INSTEAD OF discussing scripture.
Just my opinion,
MandyQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 08 2009,15:08) G,
Find it written.
It gives authenticity. I would challenge you to take your own advice in regards to another thread, and topic.
Can you find it written that Jesus needed to be “born again”?
I didn't think so…..
Love ya, Nick!
MandyQuote (Lightenup @ June 06 2009,17:16) Hi Jodi,
You have put a great deal of thought into what you say about the body of Moses…it's interesting. Thanks!I was wondering who you thought tempted Christ in the desert after His 40 days fast in the wilderness.
The Temptation of Jesus
Matthew4:1-8
4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness 1 to be tempted by the devil. 4:2 After he fasted forty days and forty nights he was famished. 2 4:3 The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread.” 3 4:4 But he answered, 4 “It is written, ‘Man 5 does not live 6 by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” 7 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, 8 had him stand 9 on the highest point 10 of the temple, 4:6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ 11 and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. 14 4:9 And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship 15 me.” 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, 16 Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” 17 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels 18 came and began ministering to his needs.Also, I like your avatar,
Kathi
Thanks Kathi!To answer your question….
The scriptures say we are born children of wrath, and it's because we are born with a carnal nature. When someone is acting in a way where they are giving into their carnal nature they are being and adversary unto themselves and they become an adversary to others.
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, ]afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' ” 5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.' ” 7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' ” 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' ” F16
I find it very interesting that it starts off telling us that Jesus is going to be tempted, then we are told that he is starved and THEN we see the temptation come. What came to Jesus, was it some supernatural being? I think the answer is quite clear, having not eaten for forty days the temptation that came was the desires of his carnal nature. Jesus had all of God's powers and his carnal nature wanted him to use those powers for himself, but Jesus denied that nature and served God.
Thus why it is written,
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Jas 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
The carnal mind is death
Live according to the flesh you will die
Carnal mind is enmity
Desire brings sin and sin brings deathI don't see in scripture it saying that invisible supernatural beings bring death, or that to live according to a supernatural evil spirit brings forth death.
So when I see, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, I believe it is of scriptural truth to say that the devil must represent carnal nature.
One last look…
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
God cannot be tempted, for God does not have flesh like we do that is subjected to the bondage of it's nature. God does not have flesh telling it day to day to serve it in order to keep itself alive. Jesus however being a man, could be tempted by his nature, which to my understanding represents the devil or slanderer. We see that the hunger Jesus felt was trying to entice him. Jesus however was not led astray by that desire to feed the flesh, instead he rebuked it and said for it to serve God. Jesus told us that we cannot have two masters, we cannot serve both God and mammon. Man cannot serve greed, which is to serve the self, and serve God at the same time. Jesus denied
his nature that wanted him to serve himself instead of God.Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 08 2009,12:01) Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2009,17:16) Hi Jodi,
You have put a great deal of thought into what you say about the body of Moses…it's interesting. Thanks!I was wondering who you thought tempted Christ in the desert after His 40 days fast in the wilderness.
The Temptation of Jesus
Matthew4:1-8
4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness 1 to be tempted by the devil. 4:2 After he fasted forty days and forty nights he was famished. 2 4:3 The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread.” 3 4:4 But he answered, 4 “It is written, ‘Man 5 does not live 6 by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” 7 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, 8 had him stand 9 on the highest point 10 of the temple, 4:6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ 11 and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. 14 4:9 And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship 15 me.” 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, 16 Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” 17 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels 18 came and began ministering to his needs.Also, I like your avatar,
Kathi
Thanks Kathi!To answer your question….
The scriptures say we are born children of wrath, and it's because we are born with a carnal nature. When someone is acting in a way where they are giving into their carnal nature they are being and adversary unto themselves and they become an adversary to others.
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, ]afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' ” 5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.' ” 7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' ” 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' ” F16
I find it very interesting that it starts off telling us that Jesus is going to be tempted, then we are told that he is starved and THEN we see the temptation come. What came to Jesus, was it some supernatural being? I think the answer is quite clear, having not eaten for forty days the temptation that came was the desires of his carnal nature. Jesus had all of God's powers and his carnal nature wanted him to use those powers for himself, but Jesus denied that nature and served God.
Thus why it is written,
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Jas 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
The carnal mind is death
Live according to the flesh you will die
Carnal mind is enmity
Desire brings sin and sin brings deathI don't see in scripture it saying that invisible supernatural beings bring death, or that to live according to a supernatural evil spirit brings forth death.
So when I see, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, I believe it is of scriptural truth to say that the devil must represent carnal nature.
One last look…
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
God cannot be tempted, for God does not have flesh like we do that is subjected to the bondage of it's nature. God does not have flesh telling it day to day to serve it in order to keep itself alive. Jesus however being a man, could be tempted by his nature, which to my understanding represents the devil or slanderer. We see that the hunger Jesus felt was trying to entice him. Jesus however was not led astray by that desire to feed the flesh, instead he
rebuked it and said for it to serve God. Jesus told us that we cannot have two masters, we cannot serve both God and mammon. Man cannot serve greed, which is to serve the self, and serve God at the same time. Jesus denied his nature that wanted him to serve himself instead of God.
Hi Jodi,
I know that there is a lot of thought behind your post and I appreciate your efforts. I do agree that at times we are our own worst enemies as we struggle against our fleshly desires and then cave into them. I would think that in regards to Jesus in the wilderness, I would credit it to Him that He overcame the carnal nature long before 40 days were up. I have trouble skipping even one missed meal. So by day 40 I think that Christ was passing with flying colors as He demonstrated self control towards His flesh.I see the whole story differently than you Jodi. I do believe that there are dark evil forces in the world and their leader is a fallen angel now named Satan. He is very shrewd and in his cunning ways attacks us when we are at our weakest. That is why he approached Jesus after 40 days of fasting. The fact that Jesus, when He was tempted, did not give into temptation even when He was very weak is magnificent to demonstrate how to over come evil in any form whether it be from our natural fleshly desires tempting us or the evil forces of darkness trying to attack us.
Within the context of Jesus in the wilderness we are not told anywhere in the passage that the “devil” or “satan” are the carnal nature of Jesus. There may be passages elsewhere that could equate our carnal natures as our adversaries but I do not see it in this passage. I take this passage at face value and believe that God's word clearly shows us this to be possible. See this passage:
Eph 6:10-12
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
NASUGod has given us our weapons to put on and use for our benefit in this battle:
Eph 6:13-20
13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
NASUSo, Jodi, we are on different sides of the fence here. Thanks for your time. My hope is for our unity in truth…press on!
God bless,
KathiHi lU,
If we do not understand the battle then ourselves and other men become our enemies.
The adversary loves such contention and paranoia.Quote (Lightenup @ June 09 2009,07:17) Quote (Jodi Lee @ June 08 2009,12:01) Quote (Lightenup @ June 06 2009,17:16) Hi Jodi,
You have put a great deal of thought into what you say about the body of Moses…it's interesting. Thanks!I was wondering who you thought tempted Christ in the desert after His 40 days fast in the wilderness.
The Temptation of Jesus
Matthew4:1-8
4:1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness 1 to be tempted by the devil. 4:2 After he fasted forty days and forty nights he was famished. 2 4:3 The tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread.” 3 4:4 But he answered, 4 “It is written, ‘Man 5 does not live 6 by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’” 7 4:5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, 8 had him stand 9 on the highest point 10 of the temple, 4:6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down. For it is written, ‘He will command his angels concerning you’ 11 and ‘with their hands they will lift you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’” 12 4:7 Jesus said to him, “Once again it is written: ‘You are not to put the Lord your God to the test.’” 13 4:8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur. 14 4:9 And he said to him, “I will give you all these things if you throw yourself to the ground and worship 15 me.” 4:10 Then Jesus said to him, “Go away, 16 Satan! For it is written: ‘You are to worship the Lord your God and serve only him.’” 17 4:11 Then the devil left him, and angels 18 came and began ministering to his needs.Also, I like your avatar,
Kathi
Thanks Kathi!To answer your question….
The scriptures say we are born children of wrath, and it's because we are born with a carnal nature. When someone is acting in a way where they are giving into their carnal nature they are being and adversary unto themselves and they become an adversary to others.
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, ]afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” 4 But He answered and said, “It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' ” 5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He shall give His angels charge over you,' and, 'In their hands they shall bear you up, Lest you dash your foot against a stone.' ” 7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.' ” 8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.' ” F16
I find it very interesting that it starts off telling us that Jesus is going to be tempted, then we are told that he is starved and THEN we see the temptation come. What came to Jesus, was it some supernatural being? I think the answer is quite clear, having not eaten for forty days the temptation that came was the desires of his carnal nature. Jesus had all of God's powers and his carnal nature wanted him to use those powers for himself, but Jesus denied that nature and served God.
Thus why it is written,
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil,
Romans 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Jas 1:15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Heb 2:14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
Ro 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Ro 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
The carnal mind is death
Live according to the flesh you will die
Carnal mind is enmity
Desire brings sin and sin brings deathI don't see in scripture it saying that invisible supernatural beings bring death, or that to live according to a supernatural evil spirit brings forth death.
So when I see, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, I believe it is of scriptural truth to say that the devil must represent carnal nature.
One last look…
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.”
James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
God cannot be tempted, for God does not have flesh like we do that is subjected to the bondage of it's nature. God does not have flesh telling it day to day to serve it in order to keep itself alive. Jesus however being a man, could be
tempted by his nature, which to my understanding represents the devil or slanderer. We see that the hunger Jesus felt was trying to entice him. Jesus however was not led astray by that desire to feed the flesh, instead he rebuked it and said for it to serve God. Jesus told us that we cannot have two masters, we cannot serve both God and mammon. Man cannot serve greed, which is to serve the self, and serve God at the same time. Jesus denied his nature that wanted him to serve himself instead of God.
Hi Jodi,
I know that there is a lot of thought behind your post and I appreciate your efforts. I do agree that at times we are our own worst enemies as we struggle against our fleshly desires and then cave into them. I would think that in regards to Jesus in the wilderness, I would credit it to Him that He overcame the carnal nature long before 40 days were up. I have trouble skipping even one missed meal. So by day 40 I think that Christ was passing with flying colors as He demonstrated self control towards His flesh.I see the whole story differently than you Jodi. I do believe that there are dark evil forces in the world and their leader is a fallen angel now named Satan. He is very shrewd and in his cunning ways attacks us when we are at our weakest. That is why he approached Jesus after 40 days of fasting. The fact that Jesus, when He was tempted, did not give into temptation even when He was very weak is magnificent to demonstrate how to over come evil in any form whether it be from our natural fleshly desires tempting us or the evil forces of darkness trying to attack us.
Within the context of Jesus in the wilderness we are not told anywhere in the passage that the “devil” or “satan” are the carnal nature of Jesus. There may be passages elsewhere that could equate our carnal natures as our adversaries but I do not see it in this passage. I take this passage at face value and believe that God's word clearly shows us this to be possible. See this passage:
Eph 6:10-12
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
NASUGod has given us our weapons to put on and use for our benefit in this battle:
Eph 6:13-20
13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
19 and pray on my behalf, that utterance may be given to me in the opening of my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in proclaiming it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
NASUSo, Jodi, we are on different sides of the fence here. Thanks for your time. My hope is for our unity in truth…press on!
God bless,
Kathi
Kathi! Very good post,,I could not done any better. Keep up the good work.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 06 2009,15:44) Hi 94,
Meaning what?The flesh body of Jesus was taken up presumably to be clothed with his heavenly body just as ours will be,
Now those reborn into him have become part of his spiritual body on earth later to be united with the head, Jesus himself
Hi Nick:Meaning that we who are born again are the body of Christ, and so why cannot those who were baptized in the Red Sea unto Moses be the body of Moses?
Love in Christ,
Marty
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