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Proclaimer. …..God is a Spirit, no man can see God and live, scripture says. God speaks sometimes “first person” in those he is “in”, it was not Jesus who said “destory this temple and in three days , l , (God the Father), shall raise it up”, that was God the Father speaking through the mouth of Jesus “first person”. It wasn’t Jesus who said that. GOD IS A SPIRIT, and can indwell anyone he choses to.
God spoke first person to Moses at the flaming Bush , because he was “in” the angel and speak though him to Moses. Remember what jesus said, “God is “a Spirit”. Spirits can dwell “in” people and angels alike, both clean and unclean spirits can indwell humans .
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Carmel, I did present the scriptures you just didn’t read them, go back to my post # 867752
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Carmel……God the Father is not now or ever was Jesus’ servant, you have put He man Jesus higher then Even God, himself, is the not what Paul said the man of sin would be , he would be siting in t h e temple of God being present and worshipped as a God, that is not , “exactly”, What you are doing with The man Jesus. 2THS2.
You have taken a human being and turned him into your God, and you worship him as such. Do you really think you are going to escape the wrath of God doing that. You are on very shaky ground Carmel, repent , while you have time Carmel.
Peace and love to you and yours…………gene
Jesus in REVELATION is not a created servant …. (chapter1; 2; 3; 22) for sure
He is worthy of worship for what he IS and for what he has done and what he is doing.
More later ….The Son of God who was God in the beginning and WAS WITH THE GOD did not become a man, but he put on his divinity with our humanity.
this is what Paul said to the Philippians (chapter 2)But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Berean. ….OK then you do believe he was a “servant” correct?, now then do you also believe he was God the Fathers “messenger” to all humanity?
I don’t want to go all over the place on this subject ok, let’s just stay focused on just a few thing at a time Berean, and I believe everyone here can really get something out of our descussion were having.
But I need to know if we so far “agree” , that Jesus was indeed a “servant” as well as a “messenger”, from God, to all of humanity.
Peace and love to you and yous………gene
Gene
Yes, JESUS CHRIST is the Servant of God, but divine-human, it is the divine Son of God who humbled himself so that we could be raised up to the glory of God.
IN REVELATION 1 ,HE IS SHOWN AS
1 JESUS CHRIST
2 faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.
3 I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
4 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Berean, let’s not rights now descuss the devinity issue, ok we can do that later. My question is again , by scripture can we establish, that Jesus is indeed referred to as a “servant” and a “messenger” of God,?, I would like a solid yes or no answer before we move on.? I am not saying he not more then that, but is that also, among other things.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Gene
Read my post again and you have the answer
867812:
Yes, JESUS CHRIST is the Servant of God, but divine-human, it is the divine Son of God who humbled himself so that we could be raised up to the glory of God.
Berean, not only “servant” but the “messenger” also, God sent to “testify” things to us OK., I ask you we are not talking about his “devinity” now, I am trying to keep this topic simple for right now. Berean, so we can all stay focused, and not Jettisoned or turned of in another direction, rather Jesus was a devine , servant or messenger is, not an issue in this descussion.
So I am assuming you do agree that Jesus is a servant, as well as a messenger, from God the Father, right?
Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
Proclaimer, first of all you are lying again, or maybe completely forgetful, I never said we can choose what is influencing us,
I never said that either. Show me where I said that you said that. Lol.
What is clear is you are way out of your depth here. You misinterpret what we say regularly. It is evident that you were not cut out to be a teacher.
Please pray to God about this. Life is too short to wildly experiment with our purpose.
Gene
You
“Berean, not only “servant” but the “messenger” also, God sent to “testify” things to us OK., “
Me
You Say: “God sent to “testify” things to us OK., ”
If You want to refer to Revelation 1;
Well, REVELATION 1, JESUS IS
NOT MENTIONED AS A MESSENGER OR SERVANT.IT IS HE WHO SENT HIS ANGEL
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
I know you want to say about Jesus
that he does not want us to adore him, but you are very wrong …
IT IS the angel that Jesus sent WHO did not want to be worshiped.
This is the only BIBLICAL TRUTH.It is useless to try to convince of this lie.
Berean…..Jesus angel/ messenger told John what God told him. That’s who “God” sent tell his servant “John”, who then took the message to God’s servants in the churches. Haven’t you noticed what Jesus said after the end of what, he sent John to tell the churches , ” hear what the “Spirit” says unto the Churches, and again , to those who have ears to hear what the “Spirit”say unto the churches, God who is Spirit delievered his “words” to his servant Jesus, who as a messenger, of God delievered them to his fellow servant JOHN, who as a “messenger”, of God and Jesus’ delivered them to his fellow servants , in the churches. There were only three people involved there, not an angelic being. It message went directly from God the Father to his “servant” / “messenger” JESUS to another “servant” / messenger John, to the Churches. There were only three persons involved .
The reason the trinitarian translators used angel, instead of just messenger, was to throw t h e readers of , because they preached Jesus as a God instead of any kind of messenger of God.
They changed the text to make it appear different then how it actually was intended to be read.
Peace and love to you and. ………gene
Berean , they are not lies, JESUS in Rev 1 AND 22…..WAS A SERVANT AND MESSENGER OF GOD. but there is even more, important, things shown in Revelations, Jesus himself is not shown as being “worshiped” Please notice.
Rev 5:14…… And the four beasts said, Amen, and the 24 elders fell down and worshiped “him” that lives forever. Tell me Berean, was The “one” being “worshiped” there Jesus or God the Father? It can’t be both, because it says “him” , not them. Jesus is not the one who sits on the throne before them that they fell down and worshiped, it was God the Father who was the one who sits on the throne and being “worshiped”.
Rev 4:10……The 24 elders fall down before “him” that sat on the throne, and “worshiped ” “him” that “lives for ever and ever’, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying , (now pay attention Berean,) verse 11, You are worthy, O Lord, to recieve glory and honour and power: for you have created “all things”, and for your pleasure they are and were created?
The word Lord there is “Almighty” God himself, himself Berean.
There is more, but do you see that only God the Father was the one being “worshiped” there?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
‘
Gene
In Revelation 1 and 22
Jesus is not shown as a angel or servant or messenger
It’s a sight of your mind, that’s all.Yes in Revelation 4 and 5 it is God who receives the supreme worship as God.
And in chap. 5, THE FATHER and the Son of God receive praise from all.
In Hebrews 1
We must not forget that the angels receive the order of God to worship the SonAnd again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he (God) saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Berean……I have no problem with that, but we are not talking about angels worshiping Jesus here, we are talking about mankind worshiping him. There is a big difference between angels and mankind, just as it says, “know you not that you shall judge angels”,we are told. Mankind is a much higher level of creation then the angels are, and again, Heb 2:5… ” for unto the angels has he “not”, put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.”
Here is what God the Father said would happen, I kings 9:6 – 9,
Verse 9:9…..”and they shall answer, because they forsook the LORD their God, who brought forth their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and have taken hold “upon other God’s, and have “WORSHIPPED” them and served them: therefore has the LORD brought upon them all this evil.
Remember what Jesus told us , “fear not them who can destory the body and do nothing else, but fear him (God), that can destory “both” body and soul in Hell (the grave).
The same thing applies today BEREAN. Nothing has changed , “one God and one mediator or “messenger”, between God and men, the “MAN” Jesus Christ?
“Worship” God “only” , and keep his commandments, that’s what Jesus’ work, was all about,IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh.
Don’t forget you told me Jesus don’t wanna be worshiped
Before Jésus ascent to Heaven
And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.
[52] And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy:
[53] And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.
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