- This topic is empty.
- Posts
A comparative of two versions.
John 1:1-3
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
2 This same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.John 1:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Is the GNV's” “it” a more appropriate translation to English or the KJV's “he”?
Isaiah 55:11
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)11 So shall my word be, that goeth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I will, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 55:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.In this verse both versions translate the male “he” to the neuter “it” unlike in the passage from John. Why did the AKJV variate for John 1:1-3?
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 03 2013,05:29) A comparative of two versions. John 1:1-3
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God.
2 This same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.John 1:1-3
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Is the GNV's” “it” a more appropriate translation to English or the KJV's “he”?
Isaiah 55:11
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)11 So shall my word be, that goeth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I will, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
Isaiah 55:11
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)11 so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth:
it shall not return unto me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.In this verse both versions translate the male “he” to the neuter “it” unlike in the passage from John. Why did the AKJV variate for John 1:1-3?
Hi Kerwin:Thanks, for bringing this to our attention. I believe that this makes sense, that is to translate “it” instead of him, verse 4 reads in it was “life” and that life was the light of man.
And 1 John 1 would agree:
Quote 1 That [a]which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with these our eyes, which we have looked upon, and these hands of ours have handled of that [c]word of life, 2 (For that life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and [d]show unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was made manifest unto us
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Kerwin:
I believe that I am being check by the Lord, and because of this I believe that the proper translation should be “all things were made by him”, and this agrees with Hebrews 1 and Colossians 1. The Logos or Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but it is not him as a pre-existent sentient person.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2013,06:02) Hi Kerwin: I believe that I am being check by the Lord, and because of this I believe that the proper translation should be “all things were made by him”, and this agrees with Hebrews 1 and Colossians 1. The Logos or Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but it is not him as a pre-existent sentient person.
Love in Christ,
Marty
martyit ad to be for many reasons ; because ALL THINGS WERE CREATED THROUGH ,
because in heaven angels are place to look after men's world ,and they do report to God ,of who doing what ,
and so every one as ,if he is worthy by doing good deeds ,they will be reported to God (Cornelius)
so without some heavenly being interceding for us we will not be looked after ,(that is why satan picked up those that do not care for God )
AND THIS IS THE MAIN REQUEST IN THE BOOK OF JOB ,SOME ONE THAT COULD INTERCEDE FOR HIM BEFORE GOD “
this came to be when God send down his son from heaven to become that person that will intercede for us all before the throne of his father ,THEIR COULD NOT BE ANYONE ELSE THAT COULD DO THIS WORK ,ONLY ONE AND IT AD TO BE THE ONE THAT STARTED ALL “THE FIRST CREATION “THE WORD” THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD -THE ONLY ONE THAT GOD CREATED FROM HIS OWN FORM ;BUT HE IS NOT THE FATHER ;
NO MEN CAN SAVE ANOTHER NOR HIMSELF FROM THE HAND OF THE LORD -SINS,GUILT
ONLY THE REAL BEING IN THE FORM(NATURE) OF GOD USED TO CREATED ALL OF CREATION ,COULD SAVE ALL CREATION ,THAT IS JESUS CHRIST ,THE WORD' OF GOD ,THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF HIS FATHER ,WHO CAME TO DIE HERE TO SHOW HOW WE CAN BE SAVED AND LIVE EVERLASTING
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 03 2013,06:02) Hi Kerwin: I believe that I am being check by the Lord, and because of this I believe that the proper translation should be “all things were made by him”, and this agrees with Hebrews 1 and Colossians 1. The Logos or Word in John 1 pertains to Jesus, but it is not him as a pre-existent sentient person.
Love in Christ,
Marty
942767,In my opinion either it or he is fine as it is both the passages from John and Isaiah are written in poetic form.
The passage you speak of in Hebrews is a loose interpretation of the Koine words by Trinitarians, For that reason I find the passage in Colossians a better example of what you mean.
I am convinced John uses the term Son to speak of the holy spirit as well as to speak of Jesus. I have no idea if Paul or any of the writers did though it is similar to the practices of certain Jews of that day. It is something to keep in mind as a hypothesis.
The topics of the passage you speak of in Colossians and the one in John are different. John speaks of the Word while Colossians speaks of the Son.
Hi Kerwin:
I do believe that the Logos in John pertains to Jesus, and no, I do not believe that Paul would refer to the Son as the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.
Love in Christ,
Marty942767,
Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,12:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
Hi Kerwin:The scripture states “the Logos was made flesh”, and so, who made the Logos flesh?
I am not sure what Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense, please explain this to me, Thanks.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 04 2013,07:14) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,12:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
Hi Kerwin:The scripture states “the Logos was made flesh”, and so, who made the Logos flesh?
I am not sure what Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense, please explain this to me, Thanks.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Philo of Alexander, a first century Jew, writes about it.
.
Quote d. First-born Son of God The Logos has an origin, but as God’s thought it also has eternal generation. It exists as such before everything else all of which are secondary products of God’s thought and therefore it is called the “first-born.” The Logos is thus more than a quality, power, or characteristic of God; it is an entity eternally generated as an extension, to which Philo ascribes many names and functions. The Logos is the first-begotten Son of the Uncreated Father: “For the Father of the universe has caused him to spring up as the eldest son, whom, in another passage, he [Moses] calls the first-born; and he who is thus born, imitating the ways of his father, has formed such and such species, looking to his archetypal patterns” (Conf. 63). This picture is somewhat confusing because we learn that in the final analysis the Creative Power is also identified with the Logos.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
The early fathers held the view that the Logos was in God and then the Logos came to be with God. This Logos was the first work of the Father. Similar to a torch (fire) that lights another torch. When this happens, the first torch is not lessened by this and now there are 2 torches. One being the original and the other next to the original.
We know that Jesus is the word of God and we know that God created all things through Jesus Christ and the Word of God.
People get confused because they think the logos is exclusively a part of God. No. Just as God is Spirit so it is that angels are spirits. Just as God is true, so it it that Jesus is the Truth.
When we understand the difference between a characteristic or attribute verses another identity, then we accept both ideas can co-exist. While others think it is one or the other.
T8……That torch thing applies to the human race, Jesus a man became the First torch from mankind, not from the beginning of all creation, as you Preexistences and Trinitarians believe. IMO
Peace love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,07:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
KLk 10:25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
Lk 10:26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”is this how you read the bible kerwin
i mean with your explanation if you are true WHY YOU DO NOT DO LIKE THE MAN THAT ANSWER JESUS AND “QUOTE THE SCRIPTURES AS IT WAS WRITTEN , OR DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT
?Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:35) The early fathers held the view that the Logos was in God and then the Logos came to be with God. This Logos was the first work of the Father. Similar to a torch (fire) that lights another torch. When this happens, the first torch is not lessened by this and now there are 2 torches. One being the original and the other next to the original. We know that Jesus is the word of God and we know that God created all things through Jesus Christ and the Word of God.
People get confused because they think the logos is exclusively a part of God. No. Just as God is Spirit so it is that angels are spirits. Just as God is true, so it it that Jesus is the Truth.
When we understand the difference between a characteristic or attribute verses another identity, then we accept both ideas can co-exist. While others think it is one or the other.
T8,Quote We know that Jesus is the word of God and we know that God created all things through Jesus Christ and the Word of God. The rest sounds fine but Genesis teaches all that has been created has been created by God's Word and does not mention anything or anyone else except God's Spirit. We know that same Word was made flesh in Christ Jesus though we disagree about the when.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,23:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
Hi t8:When Jesus was born into the world as a man child, he was a living soul, his spirit was formed in this world as he learned to apply God's Word in his daily life.
The doctrine of Christ then would also be the spirit of Christ. A person is defined by the life that he lives.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:09) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 05 2013,04:07) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,18:27) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 04 2013,13:03) 942767, Jesus gives the logos flesh as the result of his role of the Son of God. Some Jews called the Word the firstborn Son of God in a poetic sense and these same Jews appear to be John's audience. Paul on the other hand had a mixed audience though he too uses a poetic form of speech in Colossians.
This means that Jesus is mere flesh only.Yet Adam became a living soul when God breathed into him.
Did Jesus have a soul or is he a soul? Or is he less than us for not having one. Just a flesh being.
I personally do not go along with the view that anyone is just a body of flesh that comes alive when God's spirit enters.
Why? Because we have a spirit.
God's Spirit witnesses with our spirit that we are the sons of God. We are more than mere flesh and so was Jesus.
And is the poetic form you speak of a lie?
T8,Jesus gave the Word the whole human being but I chose to emphasize the flesh. As the Heir Jesus came to fill the same role as the Word has previously filled.
The poetic form I am writing of is using words in an abstract manner to reveal ideas, relationships, and other things. The truth is in the intend and the interpretation.
No, I can't go along with any of this. Hebrews 1 God spoke to humanity through the prophets, and in divers manners, has in these last days spoken to humanity through His Firstborn Son. The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions.We need to stick to the scriptures in seeking for our understanding.
Love in Christ,
Marty
martyQuote The Word or logos are the declaration of the thoughts as expressed in His Words or actions. IF YOU RIGHT ,CHRIST DIED IN VAIN OR USELESSLY,
THEIR IS NO NEED FOR THE SACRIFICE OF A LIVE ,IN YOUR POINT OF VIEW ;
TO all……..Sense sin came by a 100% human being it had to be atoned for by a 100% human being. In order to Aline with the law of God nothing less or more then a pure human being could pay the debt. Jesus only as a pure human could qualified to pay it . He redeemed us, a complete human life for our human life , he could not have been a God because a God could not pay for it, because a GOD can't die, . Scripture says Sin entered in by MAN and BY MAN (Jesus Christ) it is atoned for. nothing else would fulfill the requirements of GOD'S Law. A Morphed preexistent being would not have meet the law requirements. Jesus only could only qualify as our KINSMEN REDEEMER by being a 100% pure human being, born the same way we are through a human mother . That is why it says he is the FIRST BORN OF “MANY” BRETHREN . Nowhere did Jesus ever SEPERATE HIMSELF from his human brothers and sisters flesh existence, even after he was resurrected he said he was flesh and bone. He is still flesh and bone and will return that way also. IMO
Gene
T8……Yes Jesus was a living SOUL he had FLESH and SPIRIT IN IT! which made him a LIVING Soul and he remained tha way until he died and then the spirit left him and returned to the father just as all spirits in flesh does when the flesh dies and that is it for ever , that soul no longer exists, until a body is resurrected and spirit added back into it and then it becomes a living soul again. That is why we all need to attain to the resurrection of our BODIES to have life again. just as Paul said , we all hope for the resurrection from the dead that will witness the redemption of our BODIES.
Gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
