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Pierre,
I was rebuking my neighbor in as gentle a manner as I could think of at the moment. That I am commanded to do. I let him know a Christian is not to use a double standard. Mike has brought up some legitimate points in this thread but sadly that was not one. I have erred in the past and I find it best to repent and go on when I do. I expect nothing different from others.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,01:22) Pierre, I was rebuking my neighbor in as gentle a manner as I could think of at the moment. That I am commanded to do. I let him know a Christian is not to use a double standard. Mike has brought up some legitimate points in this thread but sadly that was not one. I have erred in the past and I find it best to repent and go on when I do. I expect nothing different from others.
Kerwinif you think Mike is wrong ,please show me but i can tell you with or without Mike it does not matter ,I would never accepted you word of “married” in that sentence,it would not fit with the entire spirit of Christ.
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,00:54) Pierre, I agree that the many English words translators ascribe as synonyms to “ginomai” seems excessive. I believe there is probably some basic idea they all hold in common. I have not looked into that yet. I do know that due to lack of knowledge in the field I am forced to rely on the judgment of experts to a large extent.
I point that Jesus basically states that he and God are joined when he teaches us that he is in the Father and the Father is in him, John 10:38 and John 14:10-11. We are also taught in a like manner it is the Holy Spirit that joins us to Jesus and so through him to God, John 17:21. Marriage is used as an example of the later joining, 2 Corinthians 11:12 and Ephesians 5:23-25.
Kerwinyou say;;I point that Jesus basically states that he and God are joined when he teaches us that he is in the Father and the Father is in him, John 10:38 and John 14:10-11.
==================================No they are not joint ,wen Jesus was arrested and Pilatus the Roman governor ask him what is the truth? Jesus answered I AM THE TRUTH;what do you think that mean?
???Pierre
Pierre,
Mike sinned by using a different standard when judging his own posts than when he judged mine.
Whether he accepts translating “ginomai” to “married” or not is irrelevant since it is obviously a legitimate possibility according to what the King James translators did.
I for instance do not agree with his alternative translation of “man” in 1 Timothy 2:5 but I accepted it as a possibility without even checking.
What Mike Boll or anyone else chooses to believe is on them. It is up to to make sure both my life and doctrine conform to the true gospel of Christ.
Pierre,
Jesus is the true way to make peace with God. You must believe all he teaches including that he was made king of the Kingdom of God. That is but a quick summary.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,02:00) Pierre, Jesus is the true way to make peace with God. You must believe all he teaches including that he was made king of the Kingdom of God. That is but a quick summary.
Kerwinyou are not even close to it
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2010,01:55) Pierre, Mike sinned by using a different standard when judging his own posts than when he judged mine.
Whether he accepts translating “ginomai” to “married” or not is irrelevant since it is obviously a legitimate possibility according to what the King James translators did.
I for instance do not agree with his alternative translation of “man” in 1 Timothy 2:5 but I accepted it as a possibility without even checking.
What Mike Boll or anyone else chooses to believe is on them. It is up to to make sure both my life and doctrine conform to the true gospel of Christ.
Kerwinunless you show the action were the double standard is used,you put you out as disturber who try to discredit others
look out side of what you are saying is it not true ??
Pierre
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2010,17:22) Pierre, An interpretation is not a rewriting. It is just an understanding of what is written. I am hopping to test that understanding to see if it comes from God or not. This is what we are taught to do as it is testing the Spirit. It is also a way of learning.
kerwinI concur with Pierre, it is not you that is testing the spirit, it is you who is making “us” test the spirit.
Why would you even go and twist scripture to begin with, what is the purpose?
You know what the bible says, “do not add, or take away”; by what you're doing you not only confuse your self, but others as well.
It is quite obvious that you are confused about what, and who the Holy Spirit is.
What does the word “spirit” actually mean? it means “invisible”.
God is spirit, invisible.
Angels are spirit, invisible.
Devils are spirit, invisible.
Paul calls our “mind” spirit, why? its invisible.
God has a mind, angels have minds, devils have minds; only God has a “Holy Mind/Spirit”; but that is not another person, just as our mind/spirit is not another person.
God's message is simple, only “we” in our extreme intelligence make it complicated for our self.Georg
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33)
Isn't is strange that you find it acceptable to disagree with translators when their translation disagrees with your conclusions and yet absolutely support them when you believe their translation agrees with your understanding.
Okay Kerwin, we'll discuss the better translation of “became” when we get to 1:14. For now, let's deal with 1:1 part b. Will you answer my “breakdown” so far?Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2010,17:33)
Take 1 Timothy 2:5 which calls Jesus a human being after he ascended to heaven. Are you now saying the translators were correct in their choice.
There is nothing wrong with the translation Kerwin. Only with your understanding of the scripture.5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people.
This is saying that the MAN who gave himself as a ransom is the same Jesus who is now a mediator between us and God. How can I be sure?
1 Corinthians 15
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,
Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
Are these enough Kerwin? There are more.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2010,19:00) Pierre, Jesus is the true way to make peace with God. You must believe all he teaches including that he was made king of the Kingdom of God. That is but a quick summary.
Hi Kerwin,FALSE: That doesn't have to be included!
Jesus came to tell us: “The Kingdom's God” “and YHVH is KING”!
Rev.1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and
the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And
hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him(YHVH) be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
1Samuel 12:19 And all the people said unto Samuel, Pray for thy servants unto [The LORD JEHOVAH] thy God
that we die not: for we have added unto all our sins this evil, to ask us 'a king'. (1Samuel 8:7)
they have rejected me(YHVH), that I(“The King”) should not reign over them.The Kingdom's God
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him
by force, to make him 'a king', he departed again into a mountain himself alone.and YHVH is KING
Psalm 29:10 [The LORD JEHOVAH] sitteth upon the flood;
yea, The LORD(YHVH) sitteth King for ever.
Psalm 10:16 The LORD(YHVH) is King for ever and ever:
the heathen are perished out of his land.The LORD JEHOVAH
Isaiah 33:17 Thine eyes shall see “The King” in his beauty:
they shall behold the land that is very far off.
Isaiah 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I a man
of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips:
for mine eyes have seen “The King”, the “LORD of hosts”.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)Mike Boll,
You previously asked me to point to an early writing where a part of someone is said to be with that something. It is a legitimate point but it takes some research. I am currently going over the works of Philo of Alexandria where he explains the theology of the Old Testament as it was believed during the First Century. He is contemporary of Jesus during the later’s time in his natural body.
As to 1 Timothy 2:5-6, the use of commas designates “the man Jesus” is a comment about “for there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind” proving Jesus is a human being even after ascension. In addition “who gave himself as a ransom for all people” is a comment about “the man Jesus” and thus shows Jesus is a human being for that purpose as well.
As to 1 Corinthians 15:45, it mentions man once and Adam twice. The first part of Adam God imparted to man was his flesh which lacked life. The second part he imparted was the spiritual breath which gave life to his flesh. It is the spiritual that gives life not the natural.
The scripture 1 Corinthians 15:50 uses a comma to make a further comment in relation to the first. The first part is that flesh and bone cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. The related fact is the perishable cannot inherit the imperishable. Putting the two together you get the perishable flesh and blood cannot enter the imperishable kingdom of heaven. Flesh and blood can be imperishable.
In regards to the words in Galatians 1:11-12 that go “not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ” consider Jesus’ teaching in John 14:24 where he states “These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me” A congruent understanding is appropriate for Galatians 1:1 as Jesus teaches us in John 14:10 that “Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.”
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 23 2010,03:44) Quote (Tim Kraft @ Dec. 22 2010,20:31) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2010,18:00) To All,
This is an interpretation of John 1:1-18 based on the New International Version of Scripture I would like to hear tested according to godly principles.In the following interpretation Emanuel = God with us.
Quote 1 In the beginning was the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of God was with God, and the Spirit of God was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was God of all mankind. 5 Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. 6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning the Emanuel, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the Emanuel; he came only as a witness to the Emanuel. 9 The true Emanuel that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Spirit of God married flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his (The Spirit of God married to flesh’s) glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ (The Spirit of God married to flesh). 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Related scriptures are Isaiah 40, Isaiah 42:1-17, and Genesis 28:10-22.
Kerwin: Bless you; This is a beautiful interpretation of one of the greatest sets of verses in the gospels.It is exceptionally powerful when in v6 it switches from God to Emanuel (God with us). I believe Jesus was God with us. God was/is in Jesus as the spirit/words or Christ.
All, everyone, whosoever will believe, …he gave the right to become children of God….not born of flesh and blood but born of the spirit words of Jesus.
The spirit of God, the bride of Christ, married Jesus (the bridegroom) and dwelt among us. We see God by seeing the glory of Jesus full of grace and truth.
The law was given to Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Powerful scriptures of the union/marriage of God/Jesus and mankind. All ONE! That was a blessed post, IMO TK
We accept the words of Jesus deep within(the union of God and man) we become one in marriage.
Hi Tim,God's Signature (Click Here)
יהוה=26 (God's Name: YHVH pronounced YÄ-hä-vā)
YHVH=63 (God's Name יהוה translated into English)
Jesus=74 (God's Son's name in English is: “Joshua”)
HolySpirit=151 (“FATHER: The Word”: in all believers)
God The Father=117 (Representing “GOD”: יהוה האלהים)It's refreshing to see you Post “Bible Truth”(117)! Perhaps you're beginning to see: “Color”(63) equals “YHVH”(63)!
John 17:21-23 That they all may be one(in spirit); as thou, Father(HolySpirit), art in me(John 1:33-34),
and I in thee(1Pt.1:11), that they also may be one in us(John 14:23): that the world may believe that thou
hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may
know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.For Kerwin: Acts 13:2 As they(the early Church) ministered to “The LORD”(YHVH), and fasted,
the HolySpirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Bumped for TimHi Kerwin,
I appreciate your attempt to address my scriptures. You use the placement of commas to “refute” two of them. So let's discuss them more in depth, one at a time.
Galatians 1 NIV
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.Kerwin, what would you think if I said I heard something, NOT FROM MAN, but by revelation FROM AN ANGEL. Would you assume from those words that the angel WAS A MAN? Or would you assume that “ANGEL” was contrasted as something OTHER THAN A MAN because of the wording, “NOT from MAN, BUT FROM an ANGEL“?
peace and love,
mikeMike,
Scripture tells us that the Law of Mosses was given by God and in Galatians 3:19 we are told it was given through angels and mediated by God. That sounds like Jesus claim that his actions are not his own but instead are God doing his works in Jesus’ flesh.
Note: I am assuming you are speaking of an angel in the unity of the spirit, of which God is over all.
Worshiping Jesus,
Previously you wrote to Ed:
Quote Don't you think that if the “Word” that was made flesh and dwelt (tabernacled) among us was the 'Holy Spirit” then there would be no need for the “Holy Spirit” to descend and sit upon him later in the chapter in verses 32, 33?
The Spirit is inexhaustible and thus can be in many places at once acting for a different purpose in each case. It could thus be that it carried out one purpose in dwelling in Jesus and another in descending on him. The later, at the least, seems to bear witness of who Jesus is.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 27 2010,08:26) Mike, Scripture tells us that the Law of Mosses was given by God and in Galatians 3:19 we are told it was given through angels and mediated by God. That sounds like Jesus claim that his actions are not his own but instead are God doing his works in Jesus’ flesh.
Note: I am assuming you are speaking of an angel in the unity of the spirit, of which God is over all.
Yes Kerwin,I can't tell if you don't understand what I'm asking, or if you're purposely avoiding the point.
If someone says, NOT MAN………BUT…………..SOMETHING ELSE, then would you not then assume the “something else” was NOT A MAN?
Paul says he received his truth NOT FROM MAN……………but from JESUS CHRIST.
If Jesus Christ WAS STILL A MAN, why would Paul say he did NOT receive his testimony from a MAN?
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll64,
Where does Paul say “Paul says he received his truth NOT FROM MAN……………but from JESUS CHRIST”?
What then, was/IS Jesus Christ then NOT a MAN?
Where is the Scripture that says what you say?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2010,15:10) Hi Kerwin, I appreciate your attempt to address my scriptures. You use the placement of commas to “refute” two of them. So let's discuss them more in depth, one at a time.
Galatians 1 NIV
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.Kerwin, what would you think if I said I heard something, NOT FROM MAN, but by revelation FROM AN ANGEL. Would you assume from those words that the angel WAS A MAN? Or would you assume that “ANGEL” was contrasted as something OTHER THAN A MAN because of the wording, “NOT from MAN, BUT FROM an ANGEL“?
peace and love,
mike
Mikeis that statement in line with this;;1Pe 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
1Pe 1:20 He was chosen before the creation of the world, but was revealed in these last times for your sake.
1Pe 1:21 Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.1Pe 2:4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him—
1Pe 2:5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
1Pe 2:10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy1Pe 2:21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
2Pe 1:3 His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness.
2Pe 1:16 We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—
Ac 9:5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.
“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied.
Ac 9:6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”this should claer thing s up.
Pierre
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 27 2010,14:44) Mikeboll64, Where does Paul say “Paul says he received his truth NOT FROM MAN……………but from JESUS CHRIST”?
What then, was/IS Jesus Christ then NOT a MAN?
Where is the Scripture that says what you say?
Hi JA,Galatians 1:1 and 1:12, among other places. This scripture is listed 3 posts above yours. The rules of this site suggest reading a few pages back in the thread before just jumping in the middle and posting. Had you done that, you would have seen where I quoted the scriptures…………twice.
Also, I posted these same scriptures to you in the “bodies” thread JA. But you ignored them there as well – like you ignored most of my answers to your questions.
mike
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 27 2010,16:13) this should claer thing s up.
Not really Pierre. First, I didn't realize things needed to be “cleared up”. Second, I don't know what you are trying to teach us from those scriptures.Perhaps you could post what lesson we are learning from which of the scriptures you posted?
peace and love,
mike
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