John 1

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30)

Hi tiggis, Welcome.  Sorry to burst your bubble but what you have stated here is only a common myth: Quote It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence.  In the beginning was the word, not always was the word.  If I said, “in the beginning was the word 'Let there be Light' ” we could use the same word “was” as in John 1:1 and it certainly wouldn't mean always was. Just think about it…I hope you enjoy being challenged Kathi/LU/Lightenup

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30)

If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence

Hi Kathi

Of course context is important.

John 1:1 says the Word that was with God “was” God.

So we know that God is an “eternal being” therefore Johns use of the “Word” here having face to face communion with God is from eternity! He is the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3

WJ

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 30 2010,09:30)

Hi tiggis, Welcome.  Sorry to burst your bubble but what you have stated here is only a common myth: Quote It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence.  In the beginning was the word, not always was the word.  If I said, “in the beginning was the word 'Let there be Light' ” we could use the same word “was” as in John 1:1 and it certainly wouldn't mean always was. Just think about it…I hope you enjoy being challenged Kathi/LU/Lightenup

Hi LU,
Your implications are as reliable to you as what is written?

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 29 2010,17:40)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 30 2010,09:30) Hi tiggis, Welcome.  Sorry to burst your bubble but what you have stated here is only a common myth: Quote It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence.  In the beginning was the word, not always was the word.  If I said, “in the beginning was the word 'Let there be Light' ” we could use the same word “was” as in John 1:1 and it certainly wouldn't mean always was. Just think about it…I hope you enjoy being challenged Kathi/LU/Lightenup Hi LU, Your implications are as reliable to you as what is written?

You don't think that “was” means always was either, do you?

[Elizabeth]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2010,07:26)

Quote (tiggis @ Mar. 29 2010,15:21) *  Sorry posted this before I ran the spellchecker – Forgive me I am new to your board and thought there was an edit key. “In the Beginning” This is the same phrase used in the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testament Scriptures Jesus quoted and the ones that the Jews used at the time). I was no doubt written purposely to draw that reemergence from John's audience. The difference is the following words to the same beginning. Instead of “In the Beginning GOD”  John used “In the Beginning was the Word” The substitution of the WORD for GOD cannot be underplayed. It is a definite action by John that is repeated throughout the gospel – using Jesus in modes of action and being that previously were reserved for GOD. It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the beginning. Most people who try to make this imply a creation point for the “Word” do so because of a misunderstanding of eternity. Eternity is not an abundance of time going forward.  Eternity is outside of time.  If GOD is eternal he will always exist and has always existed.  Before the beginning (related back to Genesis) to the Jews is a clear indication that before anything existed was brought into existence the Word was. To suggest that there is cause to apply a creation to the Word is always cause to apply a creation to GOD himself. “The Word was with GOD” The “Word' and “GOD” both have an article in front of them that shows their independence of being. The word behind “with” shows a deep personal relationship or linking.  It lends itself to a feeling of “To GOD” or “Intimate with GOD”. This compels the reader to acknowledge that the Word is not simply a representation of a divine attribute but has personage. “And the Word was GOD” Here the word “Logos” has the article in front of it whereas the word “GOD” does not. This makes the word “GOD” without the article a Qualitative Noun. The grammatical text here suggests that the word “GOD” here  is qualitative. That means that all the attributes or qualities of God belong to the Son. To imply that a 1st century Jew was telling other prior Jews who believe in only 1 GOD that the word was a “god” would be in direct contradiction of the 1st Jewish rule “Hear oh Israel, the LORD our G_D is one LORD” A paraphrase could be: “In the beginning of all creation, the Word was already in existence.  The Word was intimately with God.  And the Word was as to His essence, fully God.” – (I did not write this, but it is true to the text when considering Greek Grammar and the context and the target of the text and their theological and physical world view) Hi tiggis Welcome! Good post. Click here! for more info on John 1:1. Blessings WJ

W.J. However Jesus did not always existed. I agree that it is Jesus in John 1:1 and in verse 14 became flesh and dwelt among us. In Col. 1:15-17 tells us that
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
verse 16 For by Him all things were created that are in Heaven and that are in earth,……..
verse 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
verse 18 shows us that He also was the firstborn of the death, so that in all things He may have preeminence.
Rev. 3:14….”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.”
After His death He said this to His father in
John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”Rev, 19:13
“He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is The Word Of God.
verse 16 And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is Jesus in John 1:1 and not just a plan of God or the Fathers Word…. It is Jesus He was the Spoken Word of God, cause no-one has heard Jehovah God or seen His form…..
Peace and Love Irene

[Ed J]

Quote (tiggis @ Mar. 30 2010,07:18)

“In the Begining” This is the same phrase used in the Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testament Scriptures Jesus quoted and the ones that the Jews used at the time). I was no doubt written pourposely to draw that remeberence from John's audience. The difference is the following words to the same begining. Instead of “In the Begining GOD”  John used “In the Begining was the Word” The substitution of the WORD for GOD cannot be underplayed. It is a definite action by John that is repeated throughout the gospel – using Jesus in modes of action and being that previously were reserved for GOD. It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. Most people who try to make this imply a creation point for the “Word” do so because of a misunderstanding of eternity. Eternity is not an abundance of time going forward.  Eternity is outside of time.  If GOD is eternal he will allways exist and has allways existed.  Before the begining (related back to Genesis) to the Jews is a clear indication that before anything existed was brought into existence the Word was. To suggest that there is cause to apply a creation to the Word is allways cause to apply a creation to GOD himself. “The Word was with GOD” The “Word' and “GOD” both have an article in front of them that shows their independence of being. The word behind “with” shows a deep personal relationship or linking.  It lends itself to a feeling of “To GOD” or “Intimate with GOD”. This compels the reader to acknowledge that the Word is not simply a representation of a divine attribute but has personage. “And the Word was GOD” Here the word “Logos” has the article in front of it whereas the word “Theos” does not. This makes the word “GOD” without the article a Qualitative Noun. The gramatical text here suggests that the word “GOD” here  is qualitative. That means that all the attributes or qualities of God belong to the Son. To imply that a 1st century Jew was telling other prior Jews who believe in only 1 GOD that the word was a “god” would be in direct contradiction of the 1st Jewish rule “Hear oh Isreal, the LORD our G_D is one LORD” A paraphrase could be: “In the beginning of all creation, the Word was already in existence.  The Word was intimately with God.  And the Word was as to His essence, fully God.” – (I did not write this, but it is true to the text when considering Greek Grammar and the context and the target of the text and their theological and physical world view) [/U][I]

Hi Tiggis

[ο λογος] Hō Lōgôs means “the Word [of] God” in English. In the beginning was the word,
and the word was with God, and the word was God (John 1:1). “God” in English was translated
from [θεος] Thēôs. “The Word”(HolySpirit) was in the beginning within the “Godson”=74
at both the conception and birth of “Jesus”=74. Jesus Christ=151 was with God in the beginning
when the worlds were fashioned (John 1:3) and in spirit-form Jesus Christ=151 is with the
Holy Spirit=151 as both are given from GOD the Father starting at Pentecost. (John 14:23)

“The Word,” in Greek, is [ο λογος] which equals four hundred and forty-three.
This is significant because 443 is the 86th prime number in a long list of prime
numbers (starting with two). The theological meanings of [ο λογος=443] and
[Word [of] God=86] are both associated through the prime number list-values
of 443 and 86; helping to illustrate “the word” is the “Word of God”. In the
creation account, God in Hebrew, [אלהים=86] ĔL-ō-Hêêm directly relates with
the Word [of] God=86 sharing inseparable theological and theomatic(Numbers)
meanings with [ο λογος] “The Word”. Through faith we understand that
the worlds were framed [made] by the word of God. (Hebrews 11:3)

John the apostle reported The Word was in the beginning; Moses’ account testifies
אלהים (ĔL ō Hêêm) as the creator of both the heavens and the earth. Essentially,
(אלהים) “The mighty God” spoke the worlds into existence by (ο λογος) “The Word”.
John’s gospel concerning Jesus, tells of his origin with the Holy Spirit and his helping with
creation. (Without [Jesus Christ=151] was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3)
Jesus was with the Holy Spirit during creation, so also was the Holy Spirit with Jesus at His
inception, as “the word(HolySpirit=151) maketh the Son(Jesus Christ=151).” (Heb. 7:28)

“The Word” speaks in behalf of both “GOD The Father” and “Jesus Christ”, as “God” in the plural.
In the beginning [אלהים] (ĔL ō Hêêm=63) “YHVH=63 in the plural” created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the
“Spirit [of] God”=117 moved upon the face of the waters. (Genesis 1:1-2) The waters are peoples,
multitudes, nations and tongues. (Rev. 17:15) The “Spirit [of] God” moved upon the face of
the earth’s waters (people), to bring the light of GOD where darkness was, because the
“Spirit [of] God”=117 “is the light”=117. The “Spirit [of] God” is the truth of the Bible
that moves=74 people to the light of God. “GOD The Father”=117 is the light of
“Bible truth”=117, and in him is no darkness at all (I John 1:5).

                       “YHVH is GOD”=117
PSALM 117 is [The Bible's Center], the [smallest chapter] of the [LARGEST BOOK]!

Witnessing to the world in behalf of… (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[karmarie]

Good explanation Ed if im allowed to say so:)

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,09:06)

Hi TT, Jesus told the Jews the Father was the one they called God.[Jn8.54] Was Jesus another god or god in some other way? Why do you need several gods?

God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. This disproves that He is God how?

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2010,09:39)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30) Hi tiggis, Welcome.  Sorry to burst your bubble but what you have stated here is only a common myth: Quote It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence.  In the beginning was the word, not always was the word.  If I said, “in the beginning was the word 'Let there be Light' ” we could use the same word “was” as in John 1:1 and it certainly wouldn't mean always was. Just think about it…I hope you enjoy being challenged Kathi/LU/Lightenup Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30) If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence Hi Kathi Of course context is important. John 1:1 says the Word that was with God “was” God. So we know that God is an “eternal being” therefore Johns use of the “Word” here having face to face communion with God is from eternity! He is the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3 WJ

Yes WJ,

God is a social being. God was never alone. He always had the Word at His side.

thinker

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 29 2010,17:39)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30) Hi tiggis, Welcome.  Sorry to burst your bubble but what you have stated here is only a common myth: Quote It is also important to note that the Greek word “Was” implies eternal existence before the begining. If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence.  In the beginning was the word, not always was the word.  If I said, “in the beginning was the word 'Let there be Light' ” we could use the same word “was” as in John 1:1 and it certainly wouldn't mean always was. Just think about it…I hope you enjoy being challenged Kathi/LU/Lightenup Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 29 2010,17:30) If that is true then whenever we see the word “was” as it is in John 1:1, that would imply eternal existence Hi Kathi Of course context is important. John 1:1 says the Word that was with God “was” God. So we know that God is an “eternal being” therefore Johns use of the “Word” here having face to face communion with God is from eternity! He is the “Eternal Life” that was with the Father in the beginning. 1 John 1:1-3 WJ

Sorry but that is myth #2 and we are only on page 2 of the topic.

Only the Most High God needed to be eternal. The Son did not.

[NickHassan]

Quote (thethinker @ Mar. 31 2010,05:34)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,09:06) Hi TT, Jesus told the Jews the Father was the one they called God.[Jn8.54] Was Jesus another god or god in some other way? Why do you need several gods? God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. This disproves that He is God how? thinker

Hi TT,
Was he God or was God in him?

[terraricca]

hi all

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning;

could it be understood like this?

in the beginning was the word;beginning means before creation start;

and the word was with God;this could imply that the word was before the beginning included with the father ,prior to his creation?and therefore being God (because they were not separeted or the word not begotten)

He was with God in the beginning;so after the word is created the time called the beginning start;

my thought

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
The beginning is the epoch before visible creation.
The earth was present at the start of genesis.

The Lord is the Spirit

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2010,07:50)

Hi T, The beginning is the epoch before visible creation. The earth was present at the start of genesis. The Lord is the Spirit

NICK

i think there are two posible beginning the one of the word,and the one of the beginning of all creation trough the word.

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
God created with wisdom at his side too.[Prov]
Lord Jesus is the wisdom of God and the truth of God, the Word of God.

The Lord is the Spirit

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2010,10:29)

Hi TT, God created with wisdom at his side too.[Prov] Lord Jesus is the wisdom of God and the truth of God, the Word of God. The Lord is the Spirit

Nick! You are confusing in what you just said…. Jesus is the Son of God and in John 1;1 and in Hebrew 1:8 He is called God. That does not mean however that He is above Jehovah God. God is a title and in Ancient times many were called God.
In Hebrew it is Jehovah God who is calling Jesus God.
However He is called The Word of God in Rev.
19:13 “He was clothed in a robe dipped in blood and His name is The Word of God. And in verse 16
And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

That sums it up nicely…..
Irene

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 30 2010,07:26)

Hi tiggis Welcome! Good post. Click here! for more info on John 1:1. Blessings WJ

Quote

This makes the word “GOD” without the article a Qualitative Noun. The grammatical text here suggests that the word “GOD” here  is qualitative.

This above quote from tiggis (which you call a good post) is exactly what I proposed in the John 1:1 debate with Is. Correct me if I am wrong, I know IS opposed me regarding the qualitative reading of theos without the article, but didn't you oppose me too?

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….75;st=0

[RokkaMan]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 30 2010,06:50)

Hi and welcome Tiggis. God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself[2cor5] Yes God has visited His people but in Christ.

Very Good Post deserving a very long bump.

Did I catch Nick Hassan admitting that God was operating IN Christ?

Holy Jesus!

I never thought he would actually say…

——–

Nick now you have to shutup about this whole Jesus thing, here we got a post where you actually said God was In Christ operating.

Isn't that what we've all beens saying all along?

[GeneBalthrop]

RM……………..Nick said the (CHRISTOS) Anointing was (IN) Jesus, i never hear him say differently then that. But saying that GOD was by his Spirit in a person do not make that Person the GOD that was (IN) Him. Can we all agree on this? The Spirit of GOD in us is the same Spirit in Jesus the ANOINTED or Christos and is the one and only true GOD. Are we all in agreement on this?

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

[RokkaMan]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2010,01:54)

RM……………..Nick said the (CHRISTOS) Anointing was (IN) Jesus, i never hear him say differently then that. But saying that GOD was by his Spirit in a person do not make that Person the GOD that was (IN) Him.  Can we all agree on this? The Spirit of GOD in us is the same Spirit in  Jesus  the ANOINTED or Christos and is the one and only true GOD. Are we all in agreement on this? peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

I believe God at times manifests in his children.
It doesn't make us God, or worthy to be called God…just that God is working IN us…yes I agree on that.

However,

I believe Jesus was a permenant manifestation unto the likes of The Angel of The Lord.

because

God manifests The holy Spirit in us, with Jesus however, he manifested The Word of God…then later The Holy Spirit.

No where in the bible does it show The Word of God manifesting in ANYONE.

For this reason, I understand Jesus in essence is just as much God as YHVH…yet subject to him.

For he is, The Word of God manifested in flesh.

Sinless
Spotless.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM,
You make him a superman none can follow.

[Author]

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