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Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isaiah 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
THERE IS NON ELSE;THERE IS NON ELSE;THERE IS NON ELSE. JUST GOD AND HIS SPEECH/WORD.
You can not add another beside Him,because God said;
THERE IS NON ELSE.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 15 2014,17:07) THERE IS NON ELSE;THERE IS NON ELSE;THERE IS NON ELSE. JUST GOD AND HIS SPEECH/WORD. You can not add another beside Him,because God said;
THERE IS NON ELSE.
So then it was “God Himself” who told us that the Father was greater than him?
It is “God Himself” who is the Son, Servant, Prophet, Messiah, Mediator, and Priest of “God Himself”?
Come on, Wakeup. Surely you're smarter than that.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 15 2014,15:47) Jesus is not the Word of God, if the scriptures states that God has spoken through him? Is He?
Marty,Try not to confuse the literal words (commands, instructions, prophesies, judgments, etc.) that God speaks with the LIVING, BREATHING BEING known metaphorically as “The Word of God”, who rides a white horse in Revelation 19.
Also, try to forget that lame “his name is called” argument you use so often.
If his name is called “Abraham”, then “Abraham” IS his name.
If his name is called “Jesus”, then “Jesus” IS his name.
If his name is called “The Word of God”, then “The Word of God” IS his name.
If his name is called “Marty”, then “Marty” IS his name.
And so on, and so on, and so on………….
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,05:29) Quote (942767 @ Mar. 15 2014,15:47) Jesus is not the Word of God, if the scriptures states that God has spoken through him? Is He?
Marty,Try not to confuse the literal words (commands, instructions, prophesies, judgments, etc.) that God speaks with the LIVING, BREATHING BEING known metaphorically as “The Word of God”, who rides a white horse in Revelation 19.
Also, try to forget that lame “his name is called” argument you use so often.
If his name is called “Abraham”, then “Abraham” IS his name.
If his name is called “Jesus”, then “Jesus” IS his name.
If his name is called “The Word of God”, then “The Word of God” IS his name.
If his name is called “Marty”, then “Marty” IS his name.
And so on, and so on, and so on………….
Sorry, Mike:The Word of God is that which God has spoken. He has spoken to humanity through many prophets, and the scriptures state that in this last day. He has spoken to humanity through His Son.
I have given you my understanding of this using scriptures. You can reason all you want, but the scriptures must be line upon line and precept upon precept.
These are also names that Jesus is called.
Quote Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.They are titles that describe his character through his obedience to the Word of God, which has now also become a title based on the fact that he has obeyed the Word of God unto death on the cross, and he has been given all power and authority over heaven and earth, and is the judge of the living and the dead.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,08:28) Hi Marty,
Good points
reason does not rule over scripture
Hi Nick:We all need to learn this:
Quote
2Ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Mar. 17 2014,04:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 17 2014,08:28) Hi Marty,
Good points
reason does not rule over scripture
Hi Nick:We all need to learn this:
Quote
2Ti 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Love in Christ,
Marty
Pr 11:20 The LORD detests men of perverse heart
but he delights in those whose ways are blameless.Quote (942767 @ Mar. 16 2014,15:26) Sorry, Mike: The Word of God is that which God has spoken.
In most cases, you are correct. The phrase “the word of God” usually refers to literal instructions, commands, or words that God spoke.But in some cases, like Rev 19:13, it is abundantly clear that literal words from God will not ride a white horse.
And in John 1:14, it is abundantly clear that literal words from God did not become the flesh Son of God who dwelled on earth.
Like I said, don't confuse the literal words God spoke with the few times “The Word of God” refers to a PERSON.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 16 2014,15:26) These are also names that Jesus is called……. Isa 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.Exactly! And IS Jesus literally a wonderful counselor? YES.
Is Jesus literally a mighty god? YES – second in power only to the Almighty God, Jehovah.
Is Jesus literally an everlasting father? YES – in the “benefactor” sense with which Job uses the word in 29:16.
And is Jesus literally the Prince of Peace? YES.
These are names he is called BECAUSE he IS all of these things.
In the case of “The Word of God”, it is because he is God's main spokesperson.
Yes; on earth he was a physical spokes person.
But that physical is no more: Is dead and buried.
He was sacrificed.That physical person was not physical flesh,in the beginning.
He was in spirit form,transformed into flesh.
Then transformed back into spirit.He is now in spirit form in each of one of us, true believers.
That same spirit in us will be resurrected.
Without that spirit in us; we are AS lost in space.wakeup.
Hi Mike:
You say:
Quote In most cases, you are correct. The phrase “the word of God” usually refers to literal instructions, commands, or words that God spoke. And I am also correct in this case, the Word of God is always what God has spoken, but there is an outward man and a inward man which is this case the spirit that was formed in Jesus by the Word of God that he obeyed unto death on the cross, and is the same Word of God by which he will judge the living and the dead. And so, yes, the Word of God does ride the white horse. If you put a container of water on a horse, does just the container ride the horse or does the water that is in the container also ride the horse?
Quote 2Co 4:16
For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.And the Word of God spoken by God prophetically is what became our Lord who was manifested in the flesh at the specific point in time that it was appointed by God from the beginning.
The titles given to Jesus are based on the character that he manifested by his life through his obedience to the Word of God. Funny you list all of the titles except that the scriptures in Isaiah also state that “his name shall be called the Everlasting Father”. Now, we know that he is not “the Everlasting Father”, don't we?
I will agree that he is “God's main spokesman” and that his title is “The Word of God” in Revelation 19.
He has been made Lord and Christ, and is the judge of the living and the dead and will judge them by the Word of God. All power and authority over heaven and earth was given to him by our heavenly Father when he was resurrected from the dead.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Wakeup:
What you are giving me are your opinions and they are not scriptural.
This is what the scriptures state:
Quote 1Co 15:42
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:1Co 15:43
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:1Co 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.1Co 15:53
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.1Co 15:54
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.Quote Phl 3:20
For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:Phl 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.Quote 1Pe 1:18
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;1Pe 1:19
But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:1Pe 1:20
Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,Quote Gal 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,Quote Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:Eph 1:5
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,Eph 1:6
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.Eph 1:7
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;Eph 1:8
Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;Eph 1:9
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:Eph 1:10
That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:Eph 1:11
In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:Eph 1:12
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.Love in Christ,
MartyHi Wakeup:
Where is the scripture that states that God's Son was a spirit prior to becoming a physical being and that he as now been transformed back to this state and that we also will be transformed into this state?
I want scriptures for these statements. Otherwise, you will never convince me through your opinions.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty,
I don't know what to think. You started off with crazy talk, but then seemed to have a genuine understanding by the end of your post.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:45) If you put a container of water on a horse, does just the container ride the horse or does the water that is in the container also ride the horse?
Hmmmm……. let's try putting just water on the horse, and see if water can ride him!Marty, if King David rode a horse, would anyone say, “Hey look! There goes old blood and guts riding that horse!” Would they say that, because the blood and guts inside David also ride that horse?
Of course not, they would name the PERSON who was actually riding the horse – not the various things inside of him.
Besides, the “Word of God” who rides the white horse also wears a bloody robe on which it is written “King of kings and Lord of lords”. And he has eyes of blazing fire. And a sword protruding out of his mouth.
None of those things describe “the words of God inside the rider”, Marty. So it is clear that the PERSON about whom all these things are said is the one who has as his name “The Word of God”.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:45) And the Word of God spoken by God propheticallyis what became our Lord who was manifested in the flesh at the specific point in time that it was appointed by God……..
After I fixed your statement, it is 100% accurate and scriptural. Amen.This particular “Word of God” was never “spoken” by God. He is called “The Word of God” ONLY because he is God's spokesman – not because he used to be a literal word that God spoke.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:45) Funny you list all of the titles except that the scriptures in Isaiah also state that “his name shall be called the Everlasting Father”. Now, we know that he is not “the Everlasting Father”, don't we?
I explained “everlasting father” in my last post, and even gave you a scriptural reference to show you how the word “father” was sometimes used to refer to a “benefactor”, and not a literal “father”. There are more scriptural references I could show you, such as 2 Kings 2:12 and 13:14. Let me know if you need more.This title in Is 9:6 describes Jesus as our “everlasting benefactor”. Surely you don't think that the CHILD who was born to us was the Father God Almighty, do you?
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:45) I will agree that he is “God's main spokesman” and that his title is “The Word of God” in Revelation 19.
That is very sensible of you, Marty. Just don't let Nick find out that you're using your God-given common sense, or he'll be all over you like ugly on an ape.You seem to be on the right track, Marty. You need to lose the idea that the one who became flesh and became our Lord used to be a literal utterance from Jehovah's mouth. But if you can't do that, then you need to at least remember that whatever or whoever the Word was in John 1:1, that same thing or person actually BECAME the flesh Son of God, Jesus Christ.
It/he didn't come to be IN Jesus. It/he actually BECAME the flesh being of Jesus Christ.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 19 2014,13:08) Hi Wakeup: Where is the scripture that states that God's Son was a spirit prior to becoming a physical being and that he as now been transformed back to this state and that we also will be transformed into this state?
I want scriptures for these statements. Otherwise, you will never convince me through your opinions.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Phil 2:6-8 tells how Jesus was in the form of God before being made in the likeness of a human being. John 17:5 tells how Jesus had much glory alongside his God before the world was created.I don't think Wakeup is stretching it too far to assume that Jesus was existing as a spirit being during these times. What's the option? That he was a flesh human being before being made flesh? That he was a human being alongside God before the world even began?
As for the latter point, 1 Corinthians 15 explains to us how the Last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT, and how flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God. He also told us that you do NOT plant the body that will be. And he told us that the first man was made of dust of the earth, while the second man was from heaven……… ie: NOT made from the dust of the earth, and therefore, NOT a flesh human being like the first man.
Phil 3:21 explains how Paul is eager to be rid of his lowly earthly body, and get a new glorious body like the one Jesus now has.
2 Cor 5:1-5 explains the difference between our “earthly tent” and our “eternal heavenly dwelling”, with which God will clothe us.
1 John 3:2 explains how John wasn't quite sure what he would be after the resurrection, because he hadn't yet seen Jesus “as he is”. That eliminates the possibility that Jesus is still a flesh human being, since John DID see Jesus like that – both before and after Jesus was raised from the dead.
And the very fact that God allowed three of the disciples to see Jesus in a glorified state during his transfiguration leads us to believe that Jesus would some day be like that. Because if Jesus was never going to BE all shiny and glowing brighter than the sun, why would God even show him as such to those disciples? What would be the purpose of the transfiguration?
There is more, Marty…… but these should at least give you some things to think about.
Quote (942767 @ Mar. 20 2014,06:08) Hi Wakeup: Where is the scripture that states that God's Son was a spirit prior to becoming a physical being and that he as now been transformed back to this state and that we also will be transformed into this state?
I want scriptures for these statements. Otherwise, you will never convince me through your opinions.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.In the beginning was the Word.(spirit)
And that same Word was made flesh.(dust of the earth).That same flesh was resurrected.(quickened).
And given a spirit body.
The terrestrial body changed into a celestial body.The first Adam was made of dust. (clay).
The second Adam was made of spirit.(spirit).1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.(SPIRIT).
Adam was the *first* man.The first natural man.(creature).
Jesus was the *first* resurrected into spirit.
The first of the celestial. The first man with a spirit body.
And many *will* follow.Eve was made *second* after Adam,she was a woman.
She was *made out of* Adam.The church(woman), will be resurrected *second* to Jesus.
The church(she), is *made out of* Jesus.
She(church), and all Her children will be resurrected *second*.She is still producing children in Her womb.(spiritually).
Her time is ready to bring forth her children.
Soon she will be in labour pains.(tribulations).Her children will be born in one day.
Resurrection day.wakeup.
Hi Mike & Wakeup:
I have already been over the things that you present to me in your last posts to me, and there is not need for me to keep going over the same things with you time and time again. I have given you my understanding of the scriptures.
We are all responsible to God for what we teach, and so, I will just pray that God will correct whoever is not teaching the truth.
Love in Christ,
MartyMarty
Quote And I am also correct in this case, the Word of God is always what God has spoken, but there is an outward man and a inward man which is this case the spirit that was formed in Jesus by the Word of God that he obeyed unto death on the cross, and is the same Word of God by which he will judge the living and the dead. this needs background and scriptures ,
the inward man is the one that walks with God the outward man is the one that walks in vain and in the flesh ,
am I rightQuote (942767 @ Mar. 21 2014,01:02) Hi Mike & Wakeup: I have already been over the things that you present to me in your last posts to me, and there is not need for me to keep going over the same things with you time and time again. I have given you my understanding of the scriptures.
We are all responsible to God for what we teach, and so, I will just pray that God will correct whoever is not teaching the truth.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty.We must have a doctrine that is foolproof.
A solid rock foundation.We know that Jesus was a spirit being made
into a flesh being.
This spirit being was with God and had glory with God.
This means that HE was there,before the earth was.The problem we have, is to understand who/what; this spirit being is.
Scriptures tell us; HE is the Word of God.Many can not comprehend that the Word of God can be a being. The Word should be just that: the Word: and nothing else. Someone else must be created, to carry the Word.
A spokesman they say.This is the stumbling block they have not yet overcome.
There can not be ANOTHER being/creature, created to carry Gods Word.
BECAUSE THIS WOULD CONTRADICT GODS OWN WORDS.
HE SAID: THERE IS *NONE* BESIDE ME.NO OTHER CREATURE BESIDE HIM.
I DID IT ALL BY MY SELF; MY RIGHT HAND DID IT.
HIS RIGHT HAND MEANING; HIS WORKING WORD.
THE WORD ON THE JOB. HIS OWN WORD LIVING WITH A FORM.
GOD AND HIS WORD IS ONE. HIS WORD IS NOT AN OUTSIDER.GOD'S WORD WAS SEND OUT TO CREATE.
SEND DOWN TO TEACH AND DIE.John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that
***I came out from thee***,
and they have believed that thou didst send me.
NOT;I CAME FROM THEE; BUT **CAME OUT**FROM THEE.Keep on working,and let the HS lead.
wakeup.
Hi WU,
The only true foundation stone is the Master.
seek ye first the kingdomThe doctrines of men are no solid foundation.
They are the stumbling blocks.Hi Wakeup:
The following is your opinion, and is not supported by scripture, and I do not understand the scriptures to mean that Jesus pre-existed as a spirit being. He existed in the heart of God to be manifest to the world in due time.
Quote We know that Jesus was a spirit being made
into a flesh being.
This spirit being was with God and had glory with God.
This means that HE was there,before the earth was.The problem we have, is to understand who/what; this spirit being is.
Scriptures tell us; HE is the Word of God.Love in Christ,
Marty
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