Jesus' Spiritual body is flesh and bone

[NickHassan]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,11:55)

Yes Nick.  Quite sure, and scripturally supported.

Hi MB,
Where??

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
So if scripture says he was a man scripture is wrong?
What if it says he took on the seed of Abraham and was made like his brethren to be their High Priest?
heb 2.17
Heb 5 1-4

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:17)

Hi MB, So if scripture says he was a man scripture is wrong? What if it says he took on the seed of Abraham and was made like his brethren to be their High Priest? heb 2.17 Heb 5 1-4

N

Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

who are the companions mention here

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:34)

Hi T, Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead.

N

NO,Nick ,it is not because he was begotten that he became the first born of the dead but by his own dead literally,on the cross and 3 days later his resurrected to live from his father and his God,

do not confuse or deceive yourself the resurrection is not a state of being reborn ;the resurrection of Christ is only a phase to be fulfilled by the Messiah,and sets the stage to the followers ,this is the cup that all who follow Christ has to drink,

it is in the obedience that the reborn stage is done and the obedience can only take place if you really believe in God with a pure heart

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2012,19:17)

Hi MB, So if scripture says he was a man scripture is wrong?

Okay Toby Jr.  I said BOTH, did I not?  How then can you HONESTLY make the inferrence you just did?

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2012,19:17)

What if it says he took on the seed of Abraham and was made like his brethren to be their High Priest?

Then you should know from the “odd” language that Jesus wasn't always a human being.  Is there a scripture that says MOSES was “made like his brethren” to be a good leader?  Or a scripture that says AARON had to “partake in humanity” to be a good priest?

You don't see this kind of language with anyone except for Jesus.  No one else had to BE MADE LIKE THEIR BRETHREN for a particular reason.  All others ALREADY WERE LIKE THEIR BRETHREN from the minute they existed.

Think about it, Nick.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:34) Hi T, Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead. N NO,Nick ,it is not because he was begotten that he became the first born of the dead but by his own dead literally,on the cross and 3 days later his resurrected to live from his father and his God, do not confuse or deceive yourself the resurrection is not a state of being reborn ;the resurrection of Christ is only a phase to be fulfilled by the Messiah,and sets the stage to the followers ,this is the cup that all who follow Christ has to drink, it is in the obedience that the reborn stage is done and the obedience can only take place if you really believe in God with a pure heart

Pierre,

Jesus is the First Born because of being begotten by the Spirit of God.

He is also the First Born because of his death and resurrection.

He was never spiritually dead; as were the dead he is First Born of.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58)

Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that.

Mike,

You add words if you call what I do adding words.  We have already discussed that you interpret “flesh” as “sinful nature” in some scriptures because of the context.  I do a similar thing when as a result of the context I interpret “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews  instead of accepting your Gnostic influenced interpretation.  

I assure you the flesh of man was not flawed before the Fall  and it will not be flawed after the Day of Judgement; just as the rest of the world will not be.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58)

Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that.

Mike,

Flesh means mortal body as just as the World without God is called the World so is the flesh without God called the flesh.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:08)

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:34) Hi T, Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead. N NO,Nick ,it is not because he was begotten that he became the first born of the dead but by his own dead literally,on the cross and 3 days later his resurrected to live from his father and his God, do not confuse or deceive yourself the resurrection is not a state of being reborn ;the resurrection of Christ is only a phase to be fulfilled by the Messiah,and sets the stage to the followers ,this is the cup that all who follow Christ has to drink, it is in the obedience that the reborn stage is done and the obedience can only take place if you really believe in God with a pure heart Pierre, Jesus is the First Born because of being begotten by the Spirit of God. He is also the First Born because of his death and resurrection. He was never spiritually dead; as were the dead he is First Born of.

K

how is that ? show me scriptures for the reasons you tell me 3 in all

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:19)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that. Mike, You add words if you call what I do adding words.  We have already discussed that you interpret “flesh” as “sinful nature” in some scriptures because of the context.  I do a similar thing when as a result of the context I interpret “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews  instead of accepting your Gnostic influenced interpretation.   I assure you the flesh of man was not flawed before the Fall  and it will not be flawed after the Day of Judgement; just as the rest of the world will not be.

K

Quote

“flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews

this is true in all cases,

but could you tell me would it have been the same thing if Adam would have not sin???

[kerwin]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,03:34)

Hi KW, The only difference was longevity and that was not due to a him having a different nature but the curse God put on creation.

Nick,  

Here is what is written:

1 Corinthians 15 (King James Version)

42So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

According to the characteristics listed above, which type of body did Adam have before The Fall?

You have heard that Gnostics teach that flesh is flawed.  You know God did not create a flawed creation but instead creation became flawed when Adam sinned.   You also know that like the rest of creation the flesh and blood of man became flawed and natural after the Fall.  You know that Scripture labels this flawed World the World even though there is a different World to come.

Just as the World to come will be without flaw so will the flesh to come.

All flesh is not the same; just as it is written:

1 Corinthians 15 (King James Version)

39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

Do you believe those words were written without purpose?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,09:31)

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that. Mike, You add words if you call what I do adding words.  We have already discussed that you interpret “flesh” as “sinful nature” in some scriptures because of the context.  I do a similar thing when as a result of the context I interpret “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews  instead of accepting your Gnostic influenced interpretation.   I assure you the flesh of man was not flawed before the Fall  and it will not be flawed after the Day of Judgement; just as the rest of the world will not be. K Quote “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews this is true in all cases, but could you tell me would it have been the same thing if Adam would have not sin???

Pierre,

Man was created to be immortal; for it is written

Genesis 2:17
King James Version (KJV)

17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Just as God promised, man's immortality was changed to mortality the day he ate of the tree.

We are taught Jesus rescues us from mortality and returns us to the immortal state we were created to be in.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,09:28)

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:08) Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:34) Hi T, Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead. N NO,Nick ,it is not because he was begotten that he became the first born of the dead but by his own dead literally,on the cross and 3 days later his resurrected to live from his father and his God, do not confuse or deceive yourself the resurrection is not a state of being reborn ;the resurrection of Christ is only a phase to be fulfilled by the Messiah,and sets the stage to the followers ,this is the cup that all who follow Christ has to drink, it is in the obedience that the reborn stage is done and the obedience can only take place if you really believe in God with a pure heart Pierre, Jesus is the First Born because of being begotten by the Spirit of God. He is also the First Born because of his death and resurrection. He was never spiritually dead; as were the dead he is First Born of. K how is that ? show me scriptures for the reasons you tell me 3 in all

Pierre,

If you believe the Scripture that flesh is begotten of flesh and spirit is begotten of Spirit then you also believe Jesus was begotten of the Spirit of God; just as believers are begotten by faith in him through the same Spirit.

The result of his death and resurrection is that he was granted the power to send the Spirit as Councilor to those that believe.

If you do not know the Scriptures I refer to then I can find them for you.  I believe you are familiar enough with the bible to know them.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:52)

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,09:31) Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that. Mike, You add words if you call what I do adding words.  We have already discussed that you interpret “flesh” as “sinful nature” in some scriptures because of the context.  I do a similar thing when as a result of the context I interpret “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews  instead of accepting your Gnostic influenced interpretation.   I assure you the flesh of man was not flawed before the Fall  and it will not be flawed after the Day of Judgement; just as the rest of the world will not be. K Quote “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews this is true in all cases, but could you tell me would it have been the same thing if Adam would have not sin??? Pierre, Man was created to be immortal; for it is written Genesis 2:17 King James Version (KJV) 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Just as God promised, man's immortality was changed to mortality the day he ate of the tree. We are taught Jesus rescues us from mortality and returns us to the immortal state we were created to be in.

K

No God saved us

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,22:03)

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,09:28) Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:08) Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,19:34) Hi T, Indeed the Son by begettal of the Spirit is the firstborn from the dead. N NO,Nick ,it is not because he was begotten that he became the first born of the dead but by his own dead literally,on the cross and 3 days later his resurrected to live from his father and his God, do not confuse or deceive yourself the resurrection is not a state of being reborn ;the resurrection of Christ is only a phase to be fulfilled by the Messiah,and sets the stage to the followers ,this is the cup that all who follow Christ has to drink, it is in the obedience that the reborn stage is done and the obedience can only take place if you really believe in God with a pure heart Pierre, Jesus is the First Born because of being begotten by the Spirit of God. He is also the First Born because of his death and resurrection. He was never spiritually dead; as were the dead he is First Born of. K how is that ? show me scriptures for the reasons you tell me 3 in all Pierre, If you believe the Scripture that flesh is begotten of flesh and spirit is begotten of Spirit then you also believe Jesus was begotten of the Spirit of God; just as believers are begotten by faith in him through the same Spirit. The result of his death and resurrection is that he was granted the power to send the Spirit as Councilor to those that believe. If you do not know the Scriptures I refer to then I can find them for you.  I believe you are familiar enough with the bible to know them.

K

Christ was begotten the very first of all creation ,way before even Adam was,before the universe was made he was,

The counselor was send to replace and help them trough the lost of their teacher,no less no more,

Now is dead as nothing to do with him sending the counselor ,is dead was for the ransom of Adam sin,

You are wrong on many things ,you do not understand the plan of God,

[toby]

Ah, so back to the thread topic!

What can we conclude from Scriptures:

1) The Spiritual Body is the body raised from the dead by the power from Heaven (The Holy Spirit)

2) it is 'reBORN' of the Spirit as Immortal, Imperishable, Glorious and empowered as said by Apostle Paul: 'Flesh conceives flesh, Spirit conceives Spirit' and Jesus says: 'One must be reBorn of the Spirit'

3) Jesus was raised from the dead in his Spiritual Body and proved it by being able to enter into a locked room with that body. It is for no simpler reason that one Disciple was in doubt and Jesus proved he was not a Spirit. The raised body was not a Spirit Body but a Spiritual Body

4) Scriptures then states that those of the elect will be raised from the dead in similar Spiritual Bodies at the last trumpet. Those of the elect who are not dead at the last trumpet will be changed 'in the twinkling of an eye'. Then they will rise up in the air and meet with Christ who will have come back 'with the clouds'

5) Flesh and Blood (The Body – not the state of sinfulness) cannot enter Heaven as it is still material matter and Heaven is the realm of the Spirit (immaterial, invisible and formless) so it must be assumed that the Spirit alone enters Heaven. Speculation is all that is left surrounding what of the Spiritual Body left by the Spirit?

Seeing that the Spirit can leave the Natural Body (do we agree this?)

Then we also agree that the Spirit can leave the Spiritual Body.

However, when the Spirit leaves the Natural Body, the Natural Body starts to decay due to being Mortal and Perishable.

But the Spiritual Body is Immortal and Imperishable therefore when the Spirit leaves it, it does not decay. Can we agree this, too?

If, as is said by others that the Spiritual Body is a 'so called Spirit Body' then it would have to be agreed that this 'Spirit Body' is made of 'Flesh (and Bone)' as Jesus showed (PROVED) to his Disciples. Who would dare agree such absurdity?

So let us rule out this notion of a 'Spirit Body' that is nowhere mentioned in any Scriptural rendering nor by any credible authority on Scriptures.

Scriptures clearly and unequivocally states that the risen from the dead Body will be Spiritual – and so it is. The Natural Body is sinful and subject to death and decay and is driven by Carnel desires.

The reBORN Body (Please note: It is NOT a NEW BODY but a RENEWED body – please understand the difference) is reborn not of the sinful nature of man (Flesh begets flesh) but of the Holy Spirit (Spirit begets Spirit) and is driven by the Spirit (Of the Spirit : Spiritual).

Thus it is said 'they shall be LIKE the Angels of Heaven who are neither given nor taken in marriage'. This means the Spiritual Bodied person will not procreate – it DOES NOT MEAN that they will BE ANGELS but LIKE Angels in nature.

So then one asks, 'What is the point of having a Spiritual Body that is of no use in Heaven?'.

This is not hard to answer: Jesus was raised up from the dead in a Spiritual body and then taken up to Heaven (in Spirit only).

But he will come back to Earth at the last trumpet. WHY?

Could not Jesus do what he had to do FROM HEAVEN without 'coming back' to the physical world. Well, yes and no. Yes, but what would that prove? And No, because it is to Man in the Flesh that he wishes to address and bring to righetousness in the new age therefore he needs to be 'As Man' in physical form.

It is without doubt that there will be an Earth, a Paradise Earth ruled by Christ Jesus and the elect and Angels will no longer come into the world nor will they be be part if the rulership in Heaven as their purpose is over.

And, just as Angels Spirits materialised in the physical world, so then will those elect in Heaven materialise in their Human Form in the physical world as snd when they desire – as will Jesus Christ.

Angels cannot be recognised one from another in their materialise form. But the elite will materialise in recognisable form of their old bodies renewed as fresh as a child with all ailments and disablements done away with.

The short man will still be short and the tall man tall, the stout man still stout and the thin man still thin – these are not ailments. But the one eyed and lamed and the disfigured will be healed or renewed as whole as exemplified by the miracle healings of Christ else for what reasons were these miracles?

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,11:53)

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:52) Pierre, Man was created to be immortal; for it is written Genesis 2:17 King James Version (KJV) 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Just as God promised, man's immortality was changed to mortality the day he ate of the tree. We are taught Jesus rescues us from mortality and returns us to the immortal state we were created to be in. K No God saved us

Pierre,

It is true that God saves us from mortality through faith in Jesus Christ.

[kerwin]

Toby,

Was the body, Adam and Eve had before the fall, natural or spiritual?

[NickHassan]

Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,14:52)

Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,09:31) Quote (kerwin @ April 09 2012,21:19) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,05:58) Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself.  You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit. Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?   Mike, “mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection. Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant? Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you.  But we are all warned against doing that. Mike, You add words if you call what I do adding words.  We have already discussed that you interpret “flesh” as “sinful nature” in some scriptures because of the context.  I do a similar thing when as a result of the context I interpret “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews  instead of accepting your Gnostic influenced interpretation.   I assure you the flesh of man was not flawed before the Fall  and it will not be flawed after the Day of Judgement; just as the rest of the world will not be. K Quote “flesh” as mortal body in Hebrews this is true in all cases, but could you tell me would it have been the same thing if Adam would have not sin??? Pierre, Man was created to be immortal; for it is written Genesis 2:17 King James Version (KJV) 17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Just as God promised, man's immortality was changed to mortality the day he ate of the tree. We are taught Jesus rescues us from mortality and returns us to the immortal state we were created to be in.

Hi KW,
Indeed he and his children were cursed,
But it was the same body

[Author]

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