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Nick,
The body sees decay the soul does not; for it is of the breath of God.
Before Adam sinned his body did not know decay. It was a body without corruption, honorable, and full of the power of the Spirit of God. These are the same characteristic ascribed to the resurrected body.
I did not inherit such a body from Adam. The body I inherited knows decay; is dishonorable; and is weak in the power of the Spirit of God. It is the natural body while the body Adam was created in was spiritual being quickened by the one from above.
When Adam ate the fruit his body was changed to a body of death; even though God’s Spirit continued to struggle against that death until the time of the flood; just as it is written:
Genesis 6:3
King James Version (KJV)3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
Even though Adam was created flesh and blood; God’s spirit did not strive with man until the fall.
It is the Gnostics that teach that flesh is flawed; a prison of the soul; God does not; as he created man good and perfect.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,13:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,03:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 08 2012,10:52) If Jesus did not have the exact same nature as we do he could not have qualified to be a sacrifice to GOD for us , He had to be “EXACTLY” the SAME in EVERY WAY……………
Let me stop you right there, Gene. First of all, no scripture says Jesus had to be the same as us in every way. Secondly, Jesus has as his Father God Himself. He had no human father like the rest of us, so it is clear that Jesus was NOT the same as us in every way.
Hi MB,
You need a break because you have just opposed scripture.Heb 2.14-17
Nyou are a false teacher ,and have a deceitful mind
look closely to the scriptures you quoted ;you left out all the things you do not believe in ;
Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Heb 2:12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
Heb 2:13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.”And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.you are deceiving your self man.
Hi KW,
You say
“I did not inherit such a body from Adam. The body I inherited knows decay; is dishonorable; and is weak in the power of the Spirit of God. It is the natural body while the body Adam was created in was spiritual being quickened by the one from above.”Adam was not made different to us in any way.
Your assumptions are based on human logic.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,02:21) Hi KW,
You say
“I did not inherit such a body from Adam. The body I inherited knows decay; is dishonorable; and is weak in the power of the Spirit of God. It is the natural body while the body Adam was created in was spiritual being quickened by the one from above.”Adam was not made different to us in any way.
Your assumptions are based on human logic.
Nick,You criticize what you do not understand. A person arrives at valid and sound conclusions; not assumptions; using logical reasoning. Your use of the word “assumptions” testifies of your lack of knowledge. Logically I could be mistaken and instead you are either being deceitful or displaying poor communication skills.
Adam was made different than us for we are being made in a world subjected to corruption; while he was not. We are not living in the time before the fall. That was a time of Paradise on Earth, and this world was not the World it has become.
I am reasoning with you; even as Paul reasoned with those in the marketplace.
Hi KW,
The only difference was longevity
and that was not due to a him having a different nature but the curse God put on creation.Mikeboll,
You said:Quote
Quote (toby @ April 07 2012,16:32)
What happened to the (so called) 'Spiritual Body' you say Jesus previously had in Heaven?Toby, this seems to be the main point of your post, so I'll address it ONCE AGAIN:
What happened to the Word of God who emptied himself and was made flesh?
The answser to my question is also the answer to yours. Why you would think something DIFFERENT had to happen to the body of the Word of God than what happened to the rest of the Word of God is beyond me. But when you give a direct answer to MY bolded question above, you'll also have the answer to yours.
Mikeboll, so you can't come up with an answer to what happened to the Imperishiable Incorruptible Undecaying Undying Spiritual Body that you claim Jesus had in Heaven before coming as Man?
The simple reason is because he didn't have one otherwise you would have just answered from Scriptures.
Quote Quote (toby @ April 07 2012,16:32)
Mikeboll, are you suggesting that Spirits in Heaven had 'New' bodies? New from what and when?Nope. The teaching is not that angels get new bodies, but that the bodies of the resurrected will be like the bodies the angels ALREADY have.
Nope, the teaching is that those raised from the dead will be like the Angels in that they will not procreate (will not be given or taken in marriage).
If you disagree then show me the verse where you get your evidence.Quote Quote (toby @ April 07 2012,16:32)
Is mankind going to become an Angel in Heaven that is not made in the image of God.Who told you that angels are not made in the image of God? They are spiritual sons of God after all. If God made man in His image, then how much more so are His first sons also made in His image.
Are you saying that Angels are made in the Image of God? Where is this written? Please show me the verse.
Has anyone else made this claim before?Quote Quote (toby @ April 07 2012,16:32)
(Those that are in Spain are like the man from Spain – what information is being conveyed by stating the obvious?)Exactly! Those that ARE in heaven are like the man from heaven. And who was in heaven at the time Paul said these words?
Mikeboll, the verse does not say what you are claiming it says. It says those who are 'Heavenly' – not 'In Heaven'.
Consider: 'The Earthly Man seeks what is Carnal, but the Heavenly Man seeks what is Spiritual'.
Both these 'Man' are in the Flesh on the Earth. It is the state of their Spirituality that is inferred by 'Earthly' and 'Heavenly'.
So, too, is the inference in 'As is the man from Heaven, so too are those who are Heavenly'.
'As is the man from Spain, so too are those who are Spanish'.
One does not need to be in Spain to be 'Spanish' as it means to be 'Flamboyant and colourful – LIKE the Spanish'
One does not need to be in Heaven to be 'Heavenly' as it means to be 'Glorious, Powerful and Sinless' – LIKE the Heavenly'.Quote Quote (toby @ April 07 2012,16:32)
Or is this one of those times you decide to disagree with Barnes? Note the future use 'Will'But even as your translation points out, the word is “ARE”, not “WILL BE”. But, even if it did refer to “WILL BE”, Barnes is saying that those who will follow Jesus WILL have spiritual bodies IN HEAVEN like the man from heaven now has. (Refer to my Barnes quote from yesterday for confirmation of this.)
Mikeboll, if you were to outline what you believe you would find that your ideology does not match point for point with Scriptures,
Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,13:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,03:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 08 2012,10:52) If Jesus did not have the exact same nature as we do he could not have qualified to be a sacrifice to GOD for us , He had to be “EXACTLY” the SAME in EVERY WAY……………
Let me stop you right there, Gene. First of all, no scripture says Jesus had to be the same as us in every way. Secondly, Jesus has as his Father God Himself. He had no human father like the rest of us, so it is clear that Jesus was NOT the same as us in every way.
Hi MB,
You need a break because you have just opposed scripture.Heb 2.14-17
Nyou are a false teacher ,and have a deceitful mind
look closely to the scriptures you quoted ;you left out all the things you do not believe in ;
Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Heb 2:12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
Heb 2:13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.”And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.you are deceiving your self man.
Hi t,
Please explain your serious accusation.“you are a false teacher ,and have a deceitful mind
“What have I taught falsely from these verses and how do these scriptures show my mind is deceitful?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,16:33) Quote (terraricca @ April 09 2012,07:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,13:54) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2012,03:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 08 2012,10:52) If Jesus did not have the exact same nature as we do he could not have qualified to be a sacrifice to GOD for us , He had to be “EXACTLY” the SAME in EVERY WAY……………
Let me stop you right there, Gene. First of all, no scripture says Jesus had to be the same as us in every way. Secondly, Jesus has as his Father God Himself. He had no human father like the rest of us, so it is clear that Jesus was NOT the same as us in every way.
Hi MB,
You need a break because you have just opposed scripture.Heb 2.14-17
Nyou are a false teacher ,and have a deceitful mind
look closely to the scriptures you quoted ;you left out all the things you do not believe in ;
Heb 2:5 It is not to angels that he has subjected the world to come, about which we are speaking.
Heb 2:6 But there is a place where someone has testified:
“What is man that you are mindful of him,
the son of man that you care for him?
Heb 2:7 You made him a little lower than the angels;
you crowned him with glory and honor
Heb 2:8 and put everything under his feet.”In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him. Yet at present we do not see everything subject to him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
Heb 2:10 In bringing many sons to glory, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.
Heb 2:11 Both the one who makes men holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers.
Heb 2:12 He says,
“I will declare your name to my brothers;
in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises.”
Heb 2:13 And again,
“I will put my trust in him.”And again he says,
“Here am I, and the children God has given me.”
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil—
Heb 2:15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
Heb 2:16 For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham’s descendants.
Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.you are deceiving your self man.
Hi t,
Please explain your serious accusation.“you are a false teacher ,and have a deceitful mind
“What have I taught falsely from these verses and how do these scriptures show my mind is deceitful?
Nif you do not preach Gods truth in his word then what are you preaching
you quoted ;Heb 2.14-17,but taken out of context ,you give it a different meaning than if you would have quoted the all context like I did to you ,
because it is on those verses that you claim and accuses Mike to his claim (see his quote)
and so I have answered you truthfully as you are not a new comer to Gods scriptures.you should know that that is bad practice,religion practice ,deceitful practice,the devil way.
Hi T,
You have received your doctrine from men.
Yet you defend it as if it was truth.
And act as the ACCUSER.Why is this?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,16:51) Hi T,
You have received your doctrine from men.
Yet you defend it as if it was truth.
And act as the ACCUSER.Why is this?
Nyou just prove who you are ,with the very words you sending me
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 09 2012,16:54) Hi T,
You cannot see the kingdom unless you are reborn from above.
Nyou have not been born again in truth of God but in men s religion views
and Christ his not your master because you still blind ,NO ONE OF CHRIST PEOPLE ARE LEFT BLIND AFTER HE BECAME THEIR MASTER ,
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2012,13:54) Hi MB,
You need a break because you have just opposed scripture.Heb 2.14-17
YOU need a break if you think none of us have human fathers, Nick. And Pierre is right: You ignore the whole teaching of Heb 2, where it is speaking of the pre-existence of Jesus and how he had to partake in humanity and why.Quote (kerwin @ April 08 2012,14:10) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 08 2012,21:57) Quote (kerwin @ April 07 2012,21:38) Mike, I did not trick you; you tricked yourself. You have now admitted that flesh can mean sinful nature when it is not driven by the Spirit.
Oh, so Hebrews 5:7 is saying that Jesus made many supplications while in his “sinful nature that was not driven by Spirit”?
Mike,“mortal body” as it is not addressing the time after his death and we know he presented a flesh and bone body to his students after his resurrection.
Then why didn't the writer SAY “his MORTAL flesh”, if that's what he meant?Kerwin, if YOU want to add words into God's word, I can't stop you. But we are all warned against doing that.
Hi MB,
You say
“First of all, no scripture says Jesus had to be the same as us in every way. Secondly, Jesus has as his Father God Himself. He had no human father like the rest of us, so it is clear that Jesus was NOT the same as us in every way. “You mean he was different BECAUSE God was his father or was he really a man like us?
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