Jesus' Spiritual body is flesh and bone

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

My question was:

DO YOU LIVE IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Think spiritual.
If the head of the body is in heaven we who share his Spirit are united with him there.

[mikeboll64]

Nick,

Let's evaluate what I think your understanding is.  It seems that you think Paul is saying that as is the man from heaven, so are those who are right now “of heaven because they've been 'born again' “.

Is that correct?

If so, how does it fit into, And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Paul is talking about the difference between the BODIES of those who dwell on earth, and those who (will) dwell in heaven.  When he says, “so also are those of heaven”, he is not speaking about men on earth who are led by the spirit, because they STILL HAVE their perishable bodies.

He is obviously speaking of those who now dwell in heaven, ie: angels.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,14:02)

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,15:38) toby Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it . so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,) so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS , would this answer be good enough to you ? Hi Pierre, this is all speculation? Are you suggesting: when the Angels were manifested to Lot, that they could have been killed by the people of Sodom? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
OBVIOUSLY relates only to your use of greek 'wisdom'.

Indeed all who are alive in the Spirit are of heaven.

We shall bear the likeness of the man from heaven but we do not know the details[1Jn 3.2]

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,03:31)

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) It is written: Jeremiah 33 King James Version (KJV) 17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve. You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived.  Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him.  Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit. Kerwin with this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding this is wrong ; if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted , unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures , but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures , of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words Pierre, Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David.  What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise?

K

how is he the son of David ,he came 900 years later

usually it takes only 9 months

[mikeboll64]

So Nick,

You seriously think Paul was saying we will bear the IMPERISHABLE body like those of heaven – and he was talking about men who still were dwelling within their PERISHABLE bodies?

Oh brother!

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The only comparison is with that of the Man from heaven.

[mikeboll64]

Think it out, Nick. The earthly body is sown perishable, and raised imperishable.

Are those “born again” Christians of today living in an imperishable body right now? How about those who died to sin in Paul's day? Were they already existing in their imperishable bodies of glory while still existing as human beings on earth?

If not, then who are the “those of heaven” to which Paul refers? As is the man from heaven, so also are those of heaven.

Who are the “those of heaven” who were existing with imperishable bodies like Jesus' at the time Paul wrote this letter?

[toby]

Hi Terraricca,
You said:  

Quote

would this answer be good enough to you ?

Terraricca, I'm not sure of what you just said – I think it is best if you don't try to be part of this discussion as it appears you have no idea what you are talking about.
By following another person who equally has no idea of what he is saying you have just created yet more squalor of Scriptures and it is clear that you also know that!

If you really knew what the person who you are following is saying then you would listen to reason and stop following him as he is leading you down a path of a destructive ideology!

[toby]

Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,14:28)

Hi Mikeboll, You said: Quote Scripture says that water CAN be drank, and Toby says it can't – without one shred of scriptural proof. Mikeboll, I did not use the word 'Drank'. I said 'Drunk'!! It is just this kind of 'changing of words' that has got you where you are today (and you know where that is!!) Perhaps you are not as 'Clever' as you think you are.

Quote

The past tense of “drink” is “drank”, Toby.  (Although I did find a note in Dictionary.com where it said “drunk” was a “nonstandard” past tense of “drink”.)

Mike, it's good to see that when you need a defence that speaks for you that you can use a dictionary. How hard was it to use one when I asked you to show definitions of the word 'Body'? But never mind – I quite understand why you cried off from doing so.

Ok, can I emphasise that I did not write the word 'Drank'.
I wrote 'Drunk' and 'Drunk' is what I meant – not 'Drank'.

So, Mike, the point here is this:
You did not understand what was written for you to read – so, instead of seeking clarification on what was asked of you, YOU CHANGED the word to ONE OF YOUR OWN choosing!!

That is what you have done in terms of this issue of 'Body of Jesus' and 'Spiritual Body' (or 'Spirit Body' as you changed it to for many many posts)

Quote

So, instead of this being a case of the deceptive and lying mikeboll64 trying to twist words to win an argument, it was merely a case of me trying to correct your poor English.

But, Mikeboll64, your own words here testify of yourself. You use the correct words that apply to yourself unwittingly. Be it shown that i did not write them but you yourself (perhaps your own conscience is working against you!)

And regarding my ENGLISH – it is not in question (and you can testify against me in anything I have written in this forum barring minor typographical errors which 'Editing Rights' would have sorted out!)

Quote

I assumed you meant “drank”, and answered accordingly.

Mikeboll64, you also Assume that Jesus had a Spiritual Body in Heaven – and look where that Assumption has got you? It has got you saying by way of summary that Scriptures is wrong and Jesus could not have died because he was in an Immortal Body in the Flesh Body from the seed of Mary while on Earth.

Mikeboll64, that is one mighty blasphemous claim!

Quote

Is there some hidden meaning associated with you using the hillbilly past tense of “drink” in your post instead of the actual one?

Well, seeing that I don't know what a 'HillBilly' is I can't answer with regard to that but, no, there is no hidden meaning. It is just you who has misinterpreted what was asked of you in the question as you also misinterpret what Scriptures says concerning the 'Spiritual Body'.

Plain and simple.

Now, when you can work out your error and get the answer to 'Can Water be Drunk' then you will also work out your error regarding what Apostle Paul meant by the 'Spiritual Body'.

Oh, and also 'Man 'From' Heaven' and 'Flesh and Blood cannot 'Inherit' the KINGDOM of God (Not 'Enter' the Kingdom of God) and that Angels were never said to in 'Spiritual Tents'.

[toby]

Mike,

You said:

Quote

Exodus 25 18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover. According to the above passage, God Himself teaches that cherubs have faces and wings and eyes.

Mikeboll64, And you forgot to mention their size as well and that the Mercy Seat is God's Chair – how big was that? Was the Mercy Seat and the Angels representative sizes as regards the Angels seen by mankind on Earth?

Oh, and what about the 'Jacob's Ladder' that the Angels climb up and down out of Heaven on?

Oh, why do they need a ladder if they have wings?

Quote

Would you like to see more scriptures?  If so, then look up “angel” in a Bible search engine and find them yourself.  This kind of crap is a complete waste of my time, Toby.

Mikeboll64, is this all you got – one verse?
Is this your 'Many Descriptions' that you boasted about?
It isn't even a description of Spirits in Heaven.
It's no wonder you could not and would not produce it before.

So this is it – just this… And were the Spirits (Angels) seem by Human witnesses the same as those in your 'Proof'?
And what of the Angel that was a Pillar of Fire and thunder in the Wilderness with the Israelites. And the one that was a Fire in a bush before Moses?  And the ones that 'went up' in a flame of fire before Manoah and another person? Did they have 'Wings'?

Mikeboll64…..!!!!

Quote

And it is this kind of nonsense that fills the majority of your posts.  Then you wonder why I don't want to prolong this discussion, that's already been going on for over two years, in the HotSeat section.

Mikeboll64, then why are you discussing (oh! Debating) this topic at all? No one is forcing you to post anything! And I did as you asked (Not mention your name in my post) and even when I did as you asked you still came back as if I didn't do as you asked of me.

That, my man, is called 'Fear' and 'Paranoia'! If you were confident of your belief you would not need to get jumpy at every post that feels like some one is speaking about you.

Quote

You ask if I'm afraid.  Well, yes I am.  Afraid of spending my valuable time dealing with nonsense like this.

But yet you are willing to carry it on in an open forum with many others instead of a single thread with ONLY you and me! Odd! Very Odd!

I see you have many Debates threads listed. It seems you are the 'King of Debators' – I even see you said to someone that you are the 'Best Debator' in the forum. So what is wrong with doing one with me – surely you are not afraid are you. Don't worry, I will be kind to you – it's not that hard to learn the truth – and it won't take long – trust me!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,19:37)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Would you like to see more scriptures?  If so,then look up “angel” in a Bible search engine and find them yourself.  This kind of crap is a complete waste of my time, Toby. Mikeboll64, is this all you got – one verse?

See?  I've already told you how to find other descriptions of angels in the Bible, yet you want ME to do your homework for you.  Forget it.

Now, weren't YOU about to post your VERY FIRST scripture that tells us how angels DON'T have bodies?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ April 01 2012,19:34)

Ok, can I emphasise that I did not write the word 'Drank'. I wrote 'Drunk' and 'Drunk' is what I meant – not 'Drank'.

Well, since the English word “drunk” means “inebriated”, then no, water can't be “drunk”.  It can, however, be drank.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,04:40)

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) It is written: Jeremiah 33 King James Version (KJV) 17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve. You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived.  Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him.  Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit. Kerwin with this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding this is wrong ; if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted , unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures , but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures , of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words Pierre, Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David.  What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise? K how is he the son of David ,he came 900 years later usually it takes only 9 months

Pierre,

You admit the Hebrew people are the sons and daughters of Israel. Are you denying Jesus has the same relationship to David as they have to Israel?

Jeremiah spoke at a time when all the 1st generation of David's children were all resting in dust of the ground.

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 02 2012,03:21)

Kerwin, Can you show me where David's father called him “my Lord”. Can you show me how Jesus was prophesied to be a king in the order of David, yet was ABOVE David, God's servant? David was appointed as the firstborn of the kings of the earth.  How could any earthly king that came AFTER him be called “my Lord” by the firstborn of the kings of the earth? Are any of Abraham's descendents greater than him?  Does Abraham call any of them “my Lord”?

Mike,

Scripture does not say that Abraham called any of his descendants, even Jesus, Lord.  We infer that Jesus is his Lord because Scripture teaches us Jesus was made Lord of everything in heaven and on Earth; and that includes Abraham.

In a like manner David was made king of Judah and Israel and all the people in them.  Jesse was one of those people.

Jesus is King of everything in heaven and on earth.  His kingdom is superior to David's.

[kerwin]

Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,02:02)

Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,15:38) toby Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it . so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,) so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS , would this answer be good enough to you ? Hi Pierre, this is all speculation? Are you suggesting: when the Angels were manifested to Lot, that they could have been killed by the people of Sodom? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

bump,

I sure would like to hear the answer to this as I started a thread related to it and it received no responses.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,20:11)

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,04:40) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) It is written: Jeremiah 33 King James Version (KJV) 17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve. You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived.  Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him.  Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit. Kerwin with this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding this is wrong ; if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted , unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures , but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures , of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words Pierre, Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David.  What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise? K how is he the son of David ,he came 900 years later usually it takes only 9 months Pierre, You admit the Hebrew people are the sons and daughters of Israel.  Are you denying Jesus has the same relationship to David as they have to Israel? Jeremiah spoke at a time when all the 1st generation of David's children were all resting in dust of the ground.

Kerwin

Jer 33:17 For this is what the LORD says: ‘David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,
Jer 33:18 nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.’ ”
Jer 33:19 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah:
Jer 33:20 “This is what the LORD says: ‘If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time,
Jer 33:21 then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

I wander if you understand those scriptures ;just to make sure ,could you tell what is going on here

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,20:39)

Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2012,02:02) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,15:38) toby Quote Terraricca, perhaps you can answer the question that another refuses to answer – and that is: if Jesus was in a Spiritual body while in Heaven before coming as Man then how did he die on the cross seeing that the Spiritual body cannot die. first let correct your spelling ,I do not know but I believe we can not have two bodies we only have one ,like if a angel materializes and take a body of man he does not keep his spirit body ,one body at the time ,so Christ could not remain in his glorious body in heaven and at the same time being in a man's body,it is either one or the other ,so wen Christ became a man by the works of God powers he did not stay a spirit in nature but like us HE had the spirit of the soul that leaves us wen we die,this can not die unless God destroy it . so in a matter of being right in Christ terms ;”GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING NOT OF THE DEAD”so dead for now does not exist or dead is only THE ABILITY OF NON PERFORMANCE (NO ACTIONS NO INFLUENCE)AND SO JUST WAITING FOR THE TIME OF JUDGEMENT ,) so what happen wen Jesus died same thing of what happen to all of us ,EXCEPT HIS WAITING TIME WAS LESS THAN THREE DAYS , would this answer be good enough to you ? Hi Pierre, this is all speculation? Are you suggesting: when the Angels were manifested to Lot, that they could have been killed by the people of Sodom? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org bump, I sure would like to hear the answer to this as I started a thread related to it and it received no responses.

Kerwin

you guy's are really not in scriptures ;

IF AN ANGEL IS INVISIBLE THEN HE IS IN A SPIRIT FORM ,IF HE CAN BE SEEN THEN HE IS IN A MAN FORM ,NOW HOW FAST DOES IT TAKE TO BE IN EITHER FORM i WILL ASK WEN i MEET ONE AND TELL YOU IF i CAN

NOW THE RULES AND UNDER WITCH CONDITION CAN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN OR FUNCTION I DO NOT KNOW.

all scriptures with angels encounters were all for messages ,I have not notice an angel in the form of a man do works of the powers of angels ,this is seen in the wrestling match between an Angel(in man form) and Jacob

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,08:58)

Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,20:11) Quote (terraricca @ April 02 2012,04:40) Quote (kerwin @ April 02 2012,03:31) Quote (terraricca @ April 01 2012,06:51) Quote (kerwin @ April 01 2012,18:34) It is written: Jeremiah 33 King James Version (KJV) 17For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel; To fulfill these words God took a part from Mary to create her son even as he took a part from Adam to create Eve. You should be well aware that the flesh of men is created from a part of their parents and their soul (spirit) comes from God when they are conceived.  Jesus’ conception was as other men accept with it’s being miraculous in nature as he has but one parent. Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit, just as others are being born of the Spirit through him.  Flesh is born from flesh and spirit is born from spirit. Kerwin with this prophecy you encompass all scriptures disregard what they say just to satisfy your appetite of understanding this is wrong ; if you would have a pure heart you would see the truth as God want it not as you wanted , unless you explain the entire bible around your verse you may have a problem with your explanation to fit other scriptures , but you know that ,so you like to see your own understanding rather than the one describe in the scriptures , of cause you know that this will and has divided us ,and will continue to do so until the end ,wen all the wheat and the tar has been totally separated then Christ will come and deal with all ,according to his words Pierre, Scripture clearly states the Messiah is the son of David.  What passage of Scripture confuses you that you think otherwise? K how is he the son of David ,he came 900 years later usually it takes only 9 months Pierre, You admit the Hebrew people are the sons and daughters of Israel.  Are you denying Jesus has the same relationship to David as they have to Israel? Jeremiah spoke at a time when all the 1st generation of David's children were all resting in dust of the ground. Kerwin Jer 33:17 For this is what the LORD says: ‘David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel, Jer 33:18 nor will the priests, who are Levites, ever fail to have a man to stand before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.’ ” Jer 33:19 The word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: Jer 33:20 “This is what the LORD says: ‘If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time, Jer 33:21 then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne. I wander if you understand those scriptures ;just to make sure ,could you tell what is going on here

Pierre,

God declares his covenant with David: David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of the house of Israel,

God declares:  ‘If you can break my covenant with the day and my covenant with the night, so that day and night no longer come at their appointed time,

That has not happened.

God declares: then my covenant with David my servant—and my covenant with the Levites who are priests ministering before me—can be broken and David will no longer have a descendant to reign on his throne.

Therefore his covenant with David remains.

[Author]

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