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Hi Gene,
Thank you for you understanding. Perhaps you should start another thread entitled “At what point did Jesus become the Son of God?”, present your understanding, then have that topic be subject to debate as it is not germain to the topic and scope of this thread.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,20:25) This in contrast with baptized with the Holy Spirt which is a divine process of receiving the spirit of God.
Jesus is the “anointed one” of prophesy. Set aside for Gods' purpose and service of bringing us the new testament and covanantResearch on the Greek word used. This to my mind clearly shows Jesus was anointed in prophesy.
Hi Wispring,The word in Acts 10:38 is “chrio”, which means “to be anointed” as clearly as “christos” means “anointed one”. And Peter says that God “chrio” Jesus with Holy Spirit after John's baptism.
Tim might be right, that we are all born with an inkling of Holy Spirit because without God's Spirit animating us, we would be “dead in the water”. But apparently God pours out much more of this Spirit on us during baptism. And in the case of Jesus, it is said that God gave of His Spirit without limit.
I agree that anointed means “set aside for a special purpose”, but maybe there's the metaphorical anointing and then the physical anointing. Priests of the OT were anointed with a special oil that was not to be used for anything else. In Jesus' case, this “oil” was the Holy Spirit itself I guess.
mike
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,09:05) Hi Everyone, Quote Matthew 3:15 (King James Version) 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
To me Jesus is saying to John to fulfil all righteosness Jesus has to set the example of undergoing the repentence process. To be an example so to speck and do it in public to be witnessed by others.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Since immersion is water is for purification I can certainly see John the Baptist's point.As to Jesus' point in the long view he was just taking a necessary step in order to live his life according to the command of God.
The purpose of Jewish immersion is to cleanse those who are ritually unclean. It is also used for anyone undergoing a change in status in reguards to purification, restoration, qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community. The later to ensure the cleansed person would not impose uncleanliness on the property of a cleansed person.
Even though Jesus was alread clean I believe he did it as a qualification for full religious participation, a change in status, in the community in accordance with the law.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 29 2011,21:21) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,20:25) This in contrast with baptized with the Holy Spirt which is a divine process of receiving the spirit of God.
Jesus is the “anointed one” of prophesy. Set aside for Gods' purpose and service of bringing us the new testament and covanantResearch on the Greek word used. This to my mind clearly shows Jesus was anointed in prophesy.
Hi Wispring,The word in Acts 10:38 is “chrio”, which means “to be anointed” as clearly as “christos” means “anointed one”. And Peter says that God “chrio” Jesus with Holy Spirit after John's baptism.
Tim might be right, that we are all born with an inkling of Holy Spirit because without God's Spirit animating us, we would be “dead in the water”. But apparently God pours out much more of this Spirit on us during baptism. And in the case of Jesus, it is said that God gave of His Spirit without limit.
I agree that anointed means “set aside for a special purpose”, but maybe there's the metaphorical anointing and then the physical anointing. Priests of the OT were anointed with a special oil that was not to be used for anything else. In Jesus' case, this “oil” was the Holy Spirit itself I guess.
mike
Mikewhat did the holy spirit do to the apostles when they receive it ,and also what did Jesus said what it will do wen they received it ??
see were Jesus went after he received the holy spirit ,and understand what was his fight,and how he respond to the attack of the devil
Pierre
Hi Mike,
Right. We are talking about the use of the word anoint in it's adjective form and it verb form and it's use as a title or identifier in prophesy. All are valid in my humble opion. My understanding is that God anointed Jesus and the Prophets of OT who in turn annointed Kings. Jesus would be the one that anoints us with the Holy Spirit. I base this understanding on John saying Jesus would babtize with the Holy Spirit. Later on Jesus is anointed by a woman physically with oil and Jesus says it is so special that it should be remembered. Pure speculation here. I think that Jesus wanted it remembered because besides the traditional anointing of bodies for burial it also physically symbolized the anointment for the King of Kings. No scriptural reference. Just a thought. I truly believe we are pretty much in harmony in our induvidual understandings.With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (kerwin @ Mar. 29 2011,22:36) Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 27 2011,09:05) Hi Everyone, Quote Matthew 3:15 (King James Version) 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
To me Jesus is saying to John to fulfil all righteosness Jesus has to set the example of undergoing the repentence process. To be an example so to speck and do it in public to be witnessed by others.
With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Since immersion is water is for purification I can certainly see John the Baptist's point.As to Jesus' point in the long view he was just taking a necessary step in order to live his life according to the command of God.
The purpose of Jewish immersion is to cleanse those who are ritually unclean. It is also used for anyone undergoing a change in status in reguards to purification, restoration, qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community. The later to ensure the cleansed person would not impose uncleanliness on the property of a cleansed person.
Even though Jesus was alread clean I believe he did it as a qualification for full religious participation, a change in status, in the community in accordance with the law.
Kerwinfrom the time of John the baptist ,and the coming of Christ to him ,the observation of the law was now done with , and time was come now to fulfill it,
Pierre
Hi Pierre,
Those scriptures are just ahead in the book of Matthew. As my mother used to say to me “Hold your horses” please.With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Kerwin,
Quote Since immersion is water is for purification I can certainly see John the Baptist's point. As to Jesus' point in the long view he was just taking a necessary step in order to live his life according to the command of God.
The purpose of Jewish immersion is to cleanse those who are ritually unclean. It is also used for anyone undergoing a change in status in reguards to purification, restoration, qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community. The later to ensure the cleansed person would not impose uncleanliness on the property of a cleansed person.
Even though Jesus was alread clean I believe he did it as a qualification for full religious participation, a change in status, in the community in accordance with the law.
Well said!With love and Respect,
WispringI would like to summarize what everyone has brought as thier understanding to this thread with respect to Matthew 3:15.
Quote
The purpose was to set an example. To show repentance is necesary. To show his obedience to God. To fulfill prophesy. To show Jesus to be in conformance with Mosaic law regarding a ritual to publicly show a change of status in reguards to purification, restoration, qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community.
I hope this sufficiently presents a summation of everones input to this thread.With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Everone,
This for a reference to be used by anyone in this thread:
===================================================================Matthew 4:1-11 (King James Version)
Matthew 4
1Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.2And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
3And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
5Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
6And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
8Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
10Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
11Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.
===================================================================
You can use this post to copy/paste from to talk about all of it at once or just certain parts where Jesus said something and what that means to you and how you understand it. I will reiterate here, It would be wonderful if you did so in your own words.
With Love and Respect,
WispringQuote (terraricca @ Mar. 28 2011,22:40) Mike what did the holy spirit do to the apostles when they receive it ,and also what did Jesus said what it will do wen they received it ??
see were Jesus went after he received the holy spirit ,and understand what was his fight,and how he respond to the attack of the devil
Pierre
Many things, Pierre. Just make your point, because I don't know what you're after here.
mike
Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 28 2011,22:45) Hi Mike,
Right. We are talking about the use of the word anoint in it's adjective form and it verb form and it's use as a title or identifier in prophesy. All are valid in my humble opion. My understanding is that God anointed Jesus and the Prophets of OT who in turn annointed Kings. Jesus would be the one that anoints us with the Holy Spirit. I base this understanding on John saying Jesus would babtize with the Holy Spirit. Later on Jesus is anointed by a woman physically with oil and Jesus says it is so special that it should be remembered. Pure speculation here. I think that Jesus wanted it remembered because besides the traditional anointing of bodies for burial it also physically symbolized the anointment for the King of Kings. No scriptural reference. Just a thought. I truly believe we are pretty much in harmony in our induvidual understandings.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
Agreed.Quote (Wispring @ Mar. 28 2011,23:35) I would like to summarize what everyone has brought as thier understanding to this thread with respect to Matthew 3:15. Quote
The purpose was to set an example. To show repentance is necesary. To show his obedience to God. To fulfill prophesy. To show Jesus to be in conformance with Mosaic law regarding a ritual to publicly show a change of status in reguards to purification, restoration, qualification for full religious participation in the life of the community.
I hope this sufficiently presents a summation of everones input to this thread.With Love and Respect,
Wispring
And agreed.Hi Mike and Pierre,
Quote
what did the holy spirit do to the apostles when they receive it ,and also what did Jesus said what it will do wen they received it ??
I humbly submit this discussion is for later on in this thread. If you want to debate it now, please take it to a Debate thread or wait on this one to proceed.Quote
see were Jesus went after he received the holy spirit ,and understand what was his fight,and how he respond to the attack of the devil
Behold, we are here now. Input away.With Love and Respect,
WispringHi Wispring,
That was my fault. Pierre is right on topic, now that I've figured out what he's saying. The Holy Spirit gave KNOWLEDGE to all who received it. As Jesus was growing up, he kept increasing in knowledge up until he was baptized. It was when the Holy Spirit came upon him at his baptism that he received full knowledge of who he really was, and was announced by God to be His beloved Son.
So maybe just as John had a calling to go baptizing in the wilderness, Jesus might have also had a calling that he must be baptized by John. He might only have known that God wanted him to do this to “fulfill all righteousness”. He might have known nothing else about it at that time.
And just as Moses went into the wilderness to talk with God and ate or drank nothing for 40 days, Jesus set immediately off to do the same. Perhaps Jesus was being instructed on who he really was, and where he really came from at this time.
mike
To all,
Jesus often goes into desolate areas to pray. He teaches us to seek to go to private places when praying. Fasting is one way to get closer to God as is seeking desolate areas free from distraction. The Devil just took advantage of the situation as he is known to do.
Jesus demonstrated that even in a weakened state a human being can when carried along by the Spirit of God resist the Devil. He demonstrates that God does leave a way out from temptation even as Scripture demonstrates that Jesus to underwent temptations that are common to humans.
Jesus resisted Satan and as Scripture declared would happen the Devil ran away. Satan ran await to await a more opotune time and he does the same with us, so alway be on the watch.
This was Jesus' “Dark Night of the Soul” to me. Everyone has at least one event like this in their lives. Where they have to have a talk with God and sort things out. The enticements the devil(false accuser, traducer) of such a noble character as Jesus were presented with were grand and his faith was tested. Jesus responded successfully relying on his rock-solid faith in our Father and responding to the devil's questions with scripture that proceeded out of the mouth of God and scripture that was a prophetic foretelling of his arrival in the world. Then, of course, the devil let him((yay!)See you wouldn't want to be you!) and he received the ministering of angels(Strengthening of spirit, good company, trail mix?he was hungry you know.)
With Love and Respect,
WispringThis to me shows how obediant Jesus is/was and how he never feared satan or temptations but had control over them. And I like what you said wispring….with the ministering of Angels. And how we do go through things and afterward often feel love and joy which is given to us and better things. So it is a comfort to know that.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 31 2011,19:53) Hi Wispring, That was my fault. Pierre is right on topic, now that I've figured out what he's saying. The Holy Spirit gave KNOWLEDGE to all who received it. As Jesus was growing up, he kept increasing in knowledge up until he was baptized. It was when the Holy Spirit came upon him at his baptism that he received full knowledge of who he really was, and was announced by God to be His beloved Son.
So maybe just as John had a calling to go baptizing in the wilderness, Jesus might have also had a calling that he must be baptized by John. He might only have known that God wanted him to do this to “fulfill all righteousness”. He might have known nothing else about it at that time.
And just as Moses went into the wilderness to talk with God and ate or drank nothing for 40 days, Jesus set immediately off to do the same. Perhaps Jesus was being instructed on who he really was, and where he really came from at this time.
mike
Mikeyou have taking the words out of my lips
Jesus also told his disciples that wen they would recieve the holy spirit he would remind them of all the things they have learn with him in the 3.5 years,Pierre
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