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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,05:02) Hi Kathi One God yet many Gods\gods?
Makes no sense to me.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ.One God made up of multiple person doesn't make sense either. The only true God sent his son, that makes sense.
Quote (thethinker @ April 19 2009,05:13) bodhitarta said: Quote Grace and blesings be to you all in the name of The Merciful and Compassionate God our Father and the Father and God of Christ Jesus. bodhitarta,
Do you suppose that Jesus Himself was less compassionate than the “true God” when He took spitting in the face and laid down His life for you? Jesus said:
Quote Greater love has no one than this: that he lay down his life for his friends Who layed down his life? The Father or the Son? If the “true God” is compassionate and Jesus' compassion MATCHES the compassion of the “true God”, then….
bodhitarta said:
Quote Jesus called the Father THEE ONLY TRUE GOD The above statement is just another boring example of how non-trinitarians white out the statements in Scripture they DON'T LIKE. Jesus expounded in His prayer and said,
Quote And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world began (17:5) The selective use of the Scripture by non-trinitarians is getting so old that I have found myself yawning every time I read one of their posts. When will non-trinitarians present a real challenge? They just pick and choose what is true and not true. The statement “only true God” in reference to the Father is true and trinitarians have consistently confessed this LONG BEFORE bodhitatra was conceived. Yet Christ said that He shared God's glory and the non-trinitarians white this out.
YHWH said:
Quote I am YHWH, this is My name; and My glory I will not give to another (Isaiah 42:8) How could Jesus have shared the Father's glory if He was “another” than God?
Let bodhitarta chew on this for a while.
thinker
Revelation 3:11-13 (King James Version)11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar[bold] in the temple of my God,[/bold] and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him [bold]the name of my God[/bold], and the name of the [bold]city of my God[/bold], which is new Jerusalem, [bold]which cometh down out of heaven from my God:[/bold] and I will write upon him my new name.
13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
How many times do I have to show you what the Testimony of Jesus Christ is and how long will you ignore the very words of Christ. These are not the words of disciples or writers of commentary these are the words of Jesus Christ himself, now how many times does he repeat “my God” in the above scripture and this is the risen Jesus speaking. It's amazing how much some of you hate the Father so much that even when Jesus tells you to Worship him you refuse.
Jesus already spoke of this occuring though saying:
John 4
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Notice once again how Jesus uses the word TRUE when it comes to the Father. Jesus says TRUE Worshippers WORSHIP THE FATHER.
Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL.
Quote (thethinker @ April 19 2009,05:13) bodhitarta said: Quote Grace and blesings be to you all in the name of The Merciful and Compassionate God our Father and the Father and God of Christ Jesus. bodhitarta,
Do you suppose that Jesus Himself was less compassionate than the “true God” when He took spitting in the face and laid down His life for you? Jesus said:
Quote Greater love has no one than this: that he lay down his life for his friends Who layed down his life? The Father or the Son? If the “true God” is compassionate and Jesus' compassion MATCHES the compassion of the “true God”, then….
bodhitarta said:
Quote Jesus called the Father THEE ONLY TRUE GOD The above statement is just another boring example of how non-trinitarians white out the statements in Scripture they DON'T LIKE. Jesus expounded in His prayer and said,
Quote And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world began (17:5) The selective use of the Scripture by non-trinitarians is getting so old that I have found myself yawning every time I read one of their posts. When will non-trinitarians present a real challenge? They just pick and choose what is true and not true. The statement “only true God” in reference to the Father is true and trinitarians have consistently confessed this LONG BEFORE bodhitatra was conceived. Yet Christ said that He shared God's glory and the non-trinitarians white this out.
YHWH said:
Quote I am YHWH, this is My name; and My glory I will not give to another (Isaiah 42:8) How could Jesus have shared the Father's glory if He was “another” than God?
Let bodhitarta chew on this for a while.
thinker
Revelation 3:11-13 (King James Version)11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
How many times do I have to show you what the Testimony of Jesus Christ is and how long will you ignore the very words of Christ. These are not the words of disciples or writers of commentary these are the words of Jesus Christ himself, now how many times does he repeat “my God” in the above scripture and this is the risen Jesus speaking. It's amazing how much some of you hate the Father so much that even when Jesus tells you to Worship him you refuse.
Jesus already spoke of this occuring though saying:
John 4
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Notice once again how Jesus uses the word TRUE when it comes to the Father. Jesus says TRUE Worshippers WORSHIP THE FATHER.
Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL.
Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,14:55) WJ……………….Why does Jesus say in Like manor, You say Jesus is GOD right, But Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) by HIMSELF, Scripture say GOD does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) Will. why does Jesus who you say is GOD need to do any thing Like the FATHER if He himself is a GOD as you assert. You seem to not be able to comprehend that GOD can (INDWELL) (ANYONE), He was (IN) Jesus reconciling the world unto (HIMSELF). God is SPIRIT (intellect) expressed by WORDS. Jesus never did (ONE) miracle HIMSELF, But GOD did them conforming the words He spoke , which by the way were (NOT) his as he said. Neither did he his WILL but the will of the (ONE) who sent Him. Interesting GOD would do his (own will) by His (own words) and by His own (POWER) . But Jesus said He didn't do his own will, and did not speak his own words, and use his own power. Even in revelations Jesus is portrayed as a (SLAIN) Lamb, Why is that WJ, is it because He put His Will to death and as a result has been given the seven Spirits of GOD which effect the (ONE) GOD”S WILL. This all is an example to all of us of what must happen in us in order to become a son or daughter of the (ONE) GOD. The trinitarian separation, along with creating an idolatrous condition of Jesus from our likeness is the Error of the Trinity. Jesus was a man who GOD perfected not a GOD who GOD perfected. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene
Awesome post! I have mentioned to others before about the seven spirits of God and they never respond to it .I explain to them about Elijah and how Elisha received a double portion of Holy Spirit than what elijah had and yet those who believe in the trinity have deemed The Holy spirit a God that holds meetings with Jesus and The Father.
The funny thing about believing that God is not ONE is that would mean that Jesus was a God that doubted his own decision to die although he couldn't really die, it is so insulting how these people think of God and make all sorts of things up.
Jesus says no one knows the hour not the angels or the Son but only The Father knows and only God knows everything but then they will say Jesus allowed himself not to know everything.
But the fact is Jesus thought the end would occur in his own generation. He even said some standing here would be alive when he returned with the holy angels and guess what? It didn't happen
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Can God really not know?
Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,14:55) WJ……………….Why does Jesus say in Like manor, You say Jesus is GOD right, But Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) by HIMSELF, Scripture say GOD does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) Will. why does Jesus who you say is GOD need to do any thing Like the FATHER if He himself is a GOD as you assert. You seem to not be able to comprehend that GOD can (INDWELL) (ANYONE), He was (IN) Jesus reconciling the world unto (HIMSELF). God is SPIRIT (intellect) expressed by WORDS. Jesus never did (ONE) miracle HIMSELF, But GOD did them conforming the words He spoke , which by the way were (NOT) his as he said. Neither did he his WILL but the will of the (ONE) who sent Him. Interesting GOD would do his (own will) by His (own words) and by His own (POWER) . But Jesus said He didn't do his own will, and did not speak his own words, and use his own power. Even in revelations Jesus is portrayed as a (SLAIN) Lamb, Why is that WJ, is it because He put His Will to death and as a result has been given the seven Spirits of GOD which effect the (ONE) GOD”S WILL. This all is an example to all of us of what must happen in us in order to become a son or daughter of the (ONE) GOD. The trinitarian separation, along with creating an idolatrous condition of Jesus from our likeness is the Error of the Trinity. Jesus was a man who GOD perfected not a GOD who GOD perfected. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene
Hi GeneBack to the same habits I see.
Blessings to you Gene!
WJ
Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,15:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,05:02) Hi Kathi One God yet many Gods\gods?
Makes no sense to me.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ.One God made up of multiple person doesn't make sense either. The only true God sent his son, that makes sense.
Hi t8To me it makes perfect sense, and it is truer to the scriptures since there is only “One True God” not one Big God and a little God, and its unambiguous that Jesus is called “God” by the Father and the Apostles and the forefathers while at the same time claiming Monotheistic faith in only “One True God”.
Blessings WJ
Quote (gollamudi @ April 18 2009,18:21) Hi bodhitharta,
All are good posts on the 'Only True God the Father'. I appreciate all your posts. If we see God in the light of Jewish Monotheism we will not deviate from this truth which Jesus being a Jew preached. But the Hellenism and Greek Paganism which entered the Christianity spoilled everything and deviated from the religion of Jesus and from the Only True God of Jesus.
May God continue to reveal more things through you.Peace to you
Adam
Greetings and God Bless you. Jesus already predicted this would happen.John 4
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
Ironically God did say that he would make the Jews
Deuteronomy 32:20-22 (King James Version)
20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.
21They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
Psalm 2:7-9 (King James Version)
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
In the end they will all be taught the right way if they are accepted at all but many foolish heathens that believe sincerely what they believe God may very well accept but to those who have had benefit of knowing the truth those have willingly denied God who is The Father of All.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18) Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,14:55) WJ……………….Why does Jesus say in Like manor, You say Jesus is GOD right, But Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) by HIMSELF, Scripture say GOD does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) Will. why does Jesus who you say is GOD need to do any thing Like the FATHER if He himself is a GOD as you assert. You seem to not be able to comprehend that GOD can (INDWELL) (ANYONE), He was (IN) Jesus reconciling the world unto (HIMSELF). God is SPIRIT (intellect) expressed by WORDS. Jesus never did (ONE) miracle HIMSELF, But GOD did them conforming the words He spoke , which by the way were (NOT) his as he said. Neither did he his WILL but the will of the (ONE) who sent Him. Interesting GOD would do his (own will) by His (own words) and by His own (POWER) . But Jesus said He didn't do his own will, and did not speak his own words, and use his own power. Even in revelations Jesus is portrayed as a (SLAIN) Lamb, Why is that WJ, is it because He put His Will to death and as a result has been given the seven Spirits of GOD which effect the (ONE) GOD”S WILL. This all is an example to all of us of what must happen in us in order to become a son or daughter of the (ONE) GOD. The trinitarian separation, along with creating an idolatrous condition of Jesus from our likeness is the Error of the Trinity. Jesus was a man who GOD perfected not a GOD who GOD perfected. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene
Awesome post! I have mentioned to others before about the seven spirits of God and they never respond to it .I explain to them about Elijah and how Elisha received a double portion of Holy Spirit than what elijah had and yet those who believe in the trinity have deemed The Holy spirit a God that holds meetings with Jesus and The Father.
The funny thing about believing that God is not ONE is that would mean that Jesus was a God that doubted his own decision to die although he couldn't really die, it is so insulting how these people think of God and make all sorts of things up.
Jesus says no one knows the hour not the angels or the Son but only The Father knows and only God knows everything but then they will say Jesus allowed himself not to know everything.
But the fact is Jesus thought the end would occur in his own generation. He even said some standing here would be alive when he returned with the holy angels and guess what? It didn't happen
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Can God really not know?
HiQuote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18)
But the fact is Jesus thought the end would occur in his own generation. He even said some standing here would be alive when he returned with the holy angels and guess what? It didn't happenI see, so not only is Jesus just a mere man but now he is a false prophet.
Its truly sad to hear a professed believer say this about the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the one who had the Spirit without measure.
This just shows ignorance of the scriptures.
Jesus words were fulfilled.
He said…
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:26
If you have ears to hear those who were born again never spiritually died but in fact left their earthly temple (body) and went to be with Jesus and they are alive and when Jesus returns they will join with their glorified bodies and reign with him.
The thief on the cross was with Jesus in Paradise that day.
If you want to know more then we can go to another thread and I will show you scripturally how the body without the Spirit is dead being alone.
Another false doctrine propagated by the JW’s is soul sleep.
WJ
Hi bodhitharta
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18) Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season. Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Now I understand why your doctrine is so wacked! The foundation is cracked and the whole house is leaning out of plumb and is not level.WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,17:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18) Quote (Gene @ April 19 2009,14:55) WJ……………….Why does Jesus say in Like manor, You say Jesus is GOD right, But Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) by HIMSELF, Scripture say GOD does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) Will. why does Jesus who you say is GOD need to do any thing Like the FATHER if He himself is a GOD as you assert. You seem to not be able to comprehend that GOD can (INDWELL) (ANYONE), He was (IN) Jesus reconciling the world unto (HIMSELF). God is SPIRIT (intellect) expressed by WORDS. Jesus never did (ONE) miracle HIMSELF, But GOD did them conforming the words He spoke , which by the way were (NOT) his as he said. Neither did he his WILL but the will of the (ONE) who sent Him. Interesting GOD would do his (own will) by His (own words) and by His own (POWER) . But Jesus said He didn't do his own will, and did not speak his own words, and use his own power. Even in revelations Jesus is portrayed as a (SLAIN) Lamb, Why is that WJ, is it because He put His Will to death and as a result has been given the seven Spirits of GOD which effect the (ONE) GOD”S WILL. This all is an example to all of us of what must happen in us in order to become a son or daughter of the (ONE) GOD. The trinitarian separation, along with creating an idolatrous condition of Jesus from our likeness is the Error of the Trinity. Jesus was a man who GOD perfected not a GOD who GOD perfected. IMO peace and love………………………………..gene
Awesome post! I have mentioned to others before about the seven spirits of God and they never respond to it .I explain to them about Elijah and how Elisha received a double portion of Holy Spirit than what elijah had and yet those who believe in the trinity have deemed The Holy spirit a God that holds meetings with Jesus and The Father.
The funny thing about believing that God is not ONE is that would mean that Jesus was a God that doubted his own decision to die although he couldn't really die, it is so insulting how these people think of God and make all sorts of things up.
Jesus says no one knows the hour not the angels or the Son but only The Father knows and only God knows everything but then they will say Jesus allowed himself not to know everything.
But the fact is Jesus thought the end would occur in his own generation. He even said some standing here would be alive when he returned with the holy angels and guess what? It didn't happen
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season.
Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Can God really not know?
HiQuote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18)
But the fact is Jesus thought the end would occur in his own generation. He even said some standing here would be alive when he returned with the holy angels and guess what? It didn't happenI see, so not only is Jesus just a mere man but now he is a false prophet.
Its truly sad to hear a professed believer say this about the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the one who had the Spirit without measure.
This just shows ignorance of the scriptures.
Jesus words were fulfilled.
He said…
And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:26
If you have ears to hear those who were born again never spiritually died but in fact left their earthly temple (body) and went to be with Jesus and they are alive and when Jesus returns they will join with their glorified bodies and reign with him.
The thief on the cross was with Jesus in Paradise that day.
If you want to know more then we can go to another thread and I will show you scripturally how the body without the Spirit is dead being alone.
Another false doctrine propagated by the JW’s is soul sleep.
WJ
Matthew 16:27-28 (King James Version)27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
We all know that every man shall taste death but more important Jesus is talking about them being alive in the physical and of course this doesn't make him a false prophet because he already said he did not know.
we know what he mwant because he also said
Luke 21:31-33 (King James Version)
31So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
It is clear that he thought all this would occur at that time.
These are the words of Jesus himself(blessings be upon him)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,17:58) Hi bodhitharta Quote (bodhitharta @ April 19 2009,17:18) Jesus cursed a fig tree for not having fruit out of season. Jesus didn't know.(blessings be upon him)
Now I understand why your doctrine is so wacked! The foundation is cracked and the whole house is leaning out of plumb and is not level.WJ
Mark 1112And on the morrow, when they were come from Bethany, he was hungry:
13And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet.
The scripture is clear he hoped to find figs on a tree at a time when figs were not supposed to be there as God is the creator of the times and seasons but Jesus(blessings be upon him) got angry because he found no figs.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,17:30) Quote (t8 @ April 19 2009,15:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,05:02) Hi Kathi One God yet many Gods\gods?
Makes no sense to me.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ.One God made up of multiple person doesn't make sense either. The only true God sent his son, that makes sense.
Hi t8To me it makes perfect sense, and it is truer to the scriptures since there is only “One True God” not one Big God and a little God, and its unambiguous that Jesus is called “God” by the Father and the Apostles and the forefathers while at the same time claiming Monotheistic faith in only “One True God”.
Blessings WJ
The problem is that promoting a multi-God is not only against the first commandment, but is also not the same God of the Jewish nation. We are the grafted in branches and we are adopted sons of God. The natural branches did not worship a Trinity God. Jesus also didn't, and I certainly do not.The one true God is not the Trinity. The one true God actually sent his son into the world. That God is the Father. He is called Father for a reason.
In addition, the foundational truth that Jesus built his Church on was the truth that he was the son of God and the messiah.
I simply cannot compromise these truths and keep a good conscience toward God at the same time.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,05:02) Quote (Lightenup @ April 17 2009,04:54) My theory:
One GOD
One God (God from GOD by birth as a literal Son, first to receive life apart from the always existent life source)
many gods (gods from GOD through God by creation and appointment)LU
Hi KathiOne God yet many Gods\gods?
Makes no sense to me.
Blessings WJ
I think Kathi is saying something similar to One Spirit, yet there are many spirits/angels.bodhitarta wrote:
Quote Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL. But the Father commands ALL angels to worship Jesus,
Quote But when He [God] again brings the Firstborn [Jesus] into the world, He says: Let ALL the angels of God WORSHIP Him (Heb. 1:6) So what is your reply bodhitarta? Why would the Father command ALL angels to worship Jesus but then condemn men for the same?
And the Father calls Jesus “God.”
Quote But to the Son He [the Father] says, “Your throne O God, is forever and ever (Heb. 1:8)
These passages reveal how selective non-trinitarians are in their use of the Scriptures. They accept Jesus' statement that the Father is the “only true God.” But they ignore the Father's statement that Jesus is God.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ April 19 2009,19:36) bodhitarta wrote: Quote Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL. But the Father commands ALL angels to worship Jesus,
Quote But when He [God] again brings the Firstborn [Jesus] into the world, He says: Let ALL the angels of God WORSHIP Him (Heb. 1:6) So what is your reply bodhitarta? Why would the Father command ALL angels to worship Jesus but then condemn men for the same?
And the Father calls Jesus “God.”
Quote But to the Son He [the Father] says, “Your throne O God, is forever and ever (Heb. 1:8)
These passages reveal how selective non-trinitarians are in their use of the Scriptures. They accept Jesus' statement that the Father is the “only true God.” But they ignore the Father's statement that Jesus is God.
thinker
Yes. Not only that but Yeshua is recorded as receiving heavenly worship WITH the Father in Revelation 5:12-14.t8 wrote:
Quote The problem is that promoting a multi-God is not only against the first commandment, but is also not the same God of the Jewish nation. We are the grafted in branches and we are adopted sons of God. The natural branches did not worship a Trinity God. Jesus also didn't, and I certainly do not. t8,
First, your term “multi-God” is misleading. God is a plural-unity. There is a difference. Second, the Father commanded ALL His angels to worship Jesus. See my post immediately above Is. 1:18's post. Third, the Father calls the Son by the name “God.” Again, see my post immediately above Is. 1:18's post.Fourth, the natural branches [Israel] understood the term “Son” in reference to the Messiah as a term for deity,
Quote Therefore, the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because he had not only broken the sabbath, but also said that God was His own Father, making Himself equal with God (John 5:18) Fifth, you do not worship God as a plural-unity. But I suggest you re-think this,
Quote And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying, “Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, AND to the Lamb, for ever and ever!”
Then the four living creatures said “Amen!” And the twenty-four elders fell down and worshiped Him who lives forever and ever (Rev. 5:13-14)
It says that “every creature” in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea give honor and praise to the Father AND to the Lamb (Jesus). But you are the exception.
The Bible is wrong. It should say “every creature except t8.” The four living creatures say “Amen” to worshiping the Father AND the Lamb. But t8 says “NO WAY!”
thinker
thinker……….It says when he brings his son (again) into the world, that hasn't happened yet. Jesus will have the seven horns and the seven eyes which are the seven spirits of God on Him when he comes again into the world. He will operate with the full capacity of GOD the FATHER at that time, until the thousand years are over, then the Kingdom will be turned over to GOD the FATHER, and He himself will become subject to the FATHER who gave him the power in the first place. IMO
love and peace to you and yours………………………………gene
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote And yet Jesus breathed on the disciples and said “receive the Holy Spirit” before he ascended.
Thomas for one was not there and yet he too received the Holy Spirit at the same later date the other disciples did. Why do you think the Spirit came after Jesus ascended and not before?
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Have you ever considered that his action breathing on them the Holy Spirit is an act of deity?
I see no reason why I should assume such an idea since God gives the authority He wants to whom He chooses and He obviously chose to give Jesus the authority to send the Holy Spirit but not until Jesus had “gone away”. I do know there is but one true God.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote But why do you think Jesus didn't have the “authority” before he ascended? Jesus never said he didn't have the “authority” he said…
You are not reading very carefully especially since I pointed out that Jesus stated:
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
And concluded he could not send the Spirit because he did not have the authority until He went away. I suppose though that you could also conclude he had the authority to send the Spirit but refused to do so until he went away. We can test those hypothesis against other scriptures and perhaps find if one or both are false or true according to the information God has provided us with.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Could it be that he just needed to ascend so he could send the Spirit as he said? Do you have to read into it anymore than that?
The question is why is he limited in such a way?
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Spoken by a true Unitarian who sees Jesus through his Arian glasses and not the scriptures in Phil 2:6-8 and other places.
I am not sure Arius was a Unitarian. I am probably closer to the Ebionites but with some significant differences. Still we know very little about the Ebionites and what we know comes from outsiders who may not have understood them.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Can you show me where the Father “Spit” on Jesus? Does this mean to you that Jesus is just a mere man and Gods Spirit is just “Spit”?
Yes I did misspell Spirit but I feel it is pretty obvious what I meant. I could be wrong. I have since corrected my error. I am sorry it confused you. Never the less, here is the scripture I was referring to.
Isaiah 42:1(NIV) reads
Quote “Here is my servant, whom I uphold,
my chosen one in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him
and he will bring justice to the nations. “This scripture declares Jesus is subject to God's authority and not vice versa. Still now that I think of it one can be considered equal to someone in some ways though not equal to them in authority. My employer has authority over me but I have equal rights to him and therefore under the law of the United States I am equal to him.
Quote (thethinker @ April 19 2009,19:36) bodhitarta wrote: Quote Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL. But the Father commands ALL angels to worship Jesus,
Quote But when He [God] again brings the Firstborn [Jesus] into the world, He says: Let ALL the angels of God WORSHIP Him (Heb. 1:6) So what is your reply bodhitarta? Why would the Father command ALL angels to worship Jesus but then condemn men for the same?
And the Father calls Jesus “God.”
Quote But to the Son He [the Father] says, “Your throne O God, is forever and ever (Heb. 1:8)
These passages reveal how selective non-trinitarians are in their use of the Scriptures. They accept Jesus' statement that the Father is the “only true God.” But they ignore the Father's statement that Jesus is God.
thinker
Hebrews 19Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
First of all if you read this verse it explains that since Jesus has been obdient God has placed him above those like Jesus i.e men.
second it says that Jesus inherited this position
third the scripture says that all who are heirs with Christ shall even judge the angels.
If man was meant to Worship Jesus there would be no need for Jesus to mediate as we could simply Worship him like WJ does but that would mean we are being ANTI-CHRIST because we have removed the office of Christ and worshipped Jesus as God instead.
They want you to believe that God will be the mediator between God and Man? What?
You must understand Satan can deceive you into being Anti-“Christ” by making you worship Christ as God. You think Satan is always doing things you find evil but Satan does evil that seemeth right to a man. Just like in the garden Satan wasn't saying mean and scary things to them he said what sounded real good and that is what he has done to so many of you here.
Satan has deceived you out of your love for Christ. Just remember what Satan was guilty of and now some of you want to put those charges on Christ Jesus. Jesus is the Son of God who worships God Almighty and teaches you to do the same Jesus does not sit on the Throne of God Jesus sits on the throne of David.
Galatians 3:19-21 (King James Version)
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
1 Timothy 2:4-6 (King James Version)
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Notice the scripture says “between” God and Man and who is this mediator but “the man” Christ Jesus.
Do you not believe Jesus's very own words? These are not the words of one of his disciples or later writers or even prophetic interpretation it is the direct testimony of Jesus Christ himself.
Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life.” and then what did he say? NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER except “Through” me so you are following Christ Jesus to go to the Father who is THE ONLY TRUE GOD as testified to by Jesus, will you not believe the words of your own High Priest? The way, truth and life has nothing to do with being God
1 Kings 2:3-5 (King James Version)
3And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:
4That the LORD may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.
Now I ask you who will sit on the throne of David forever? Jesus Christ !
Mark 12:13-15 (King James Version)
14And when they were come, they say unto him, Master, we know that thou art true, and carest for no man: for thou regardest not the person of men, but teachest the way of God in truth: Is it lawful to give tribute to Caesar, or not?Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 19 2009,20:04) Quote (thethinker @ April 19 2009,19:36) bodhitarta wrote: Quote Those who have been worshipping Jesus instead of The Father should repent before it's too late because they are also going to be in that class of those who say Lord, Lord and Jesus will say get away from me because you have sinned by not Worshipping the One you were told to worship, which is The ONLY TRUE GOD and FATHER of ALL. But the Father commands ALL angels to worship Jesus,
Quote But when He [God] again brings the Firstborn [Jesus] into the world, He says: Let ALL the angels of God WORSHIP Him (Heb. 1:6) So what is your reply bodhitarta? Why would the Father command ALL angels to worship Jesus but then condemn men for the same?
And the Father calls Jesus “God.”
Quote But to the Son He [the Father] says, “Your throne O God, is forever and ever (Heb. 1:8)
These passages reveal how selective non-trinitarians are in their use of the Scriptures. They accept Jesus' statement that the Father is the “only true God.” But they ignore the Father's statement that Jesus is God.
thinker
Yes. Not only that but Yeshua is recorded as receiving heavenly worship WITH the Father in Revelation 5:12-14.
Hi Is 1.18,
So they are not a tripartite god but the Son is over all creation under God.
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