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Worshipping Jesus:
Quote BTW is satan a supreme being to you?
Are you making up things. I don't believe the bible states anything about anyone but the Father being a supreme being and that only because it refers to Him as almighty which is “Shadday” in Hebrew or “Pantokrator” in Greek. I cannot be sure since I have not checked if it is reserved for God alone. “Theos” as I mentioned is not so reserved.
Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2009,20:32) Worshipping Jesus: Quote
BTW is satan a supreme being to you?
Are you making up things. I don't believe the bible states anything about anyone but the Father being a supreme being and that only because it refers to Him as almighty which is “Shadday” in Hebrew or “Pantokrator” in Greek. I cannot be sure since I have not checked if it is reserved for God alone. “Theos” as I mentioned is not so reserved.Hi Kerwin
Im not Not making it up.
I said…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,17:29) Can you supply “ONE Scripture” that ascribes the term God, “Theos” to a supreme being other than the Father and Jesus.
You said…Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2009,18:07) As you can see at one point scripture even calls Satan “theos”. God uses the word to make a point and the context determines the point he is making. 2 Corinthians 4:4(NIV) reads:
Quote
In whom the god(theos) of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
You seemed to answer my question with the thought that satan is a supreme being, but now you say only God is. But the Apostle Paul denys that there are any other “Gods” but one and that all other so-called gods are not gods at all.Then I said…
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 17 2009,19:56) BTW is satan a supreme being to you? And you said…
Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2009,20:32) Are you making up things. I don't believe the bible states anything about anyone but the Father being a supreme being and that only because it refers to Him as almighty which is “Shadday” in Hebrew or “Pantokrator” in Greek.
Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you?Now show me any other example that “theos” is used for a supreme being. If you can't then the whole Idea that because other beings are referred to as “gods” Jesus cannot be “The True God” is a strawman especially when scriptures clearly call him God.
WJ
Hi Kerwin
Quote (kerwin @ April 17 2009,20:32) “Theos” as I mentioned is not so reserved.
Can you give me an example?WJ
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you?
I do not believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” as I only believe there is one “Supreme Being” and that is the Father. Perhaps my idea of a “Supreme Being” is different than yours.
I believe Jesus is the one God made King of everything in heaven and on earth which authority and therefore power. Scripture clearly indicates he received some, as the Holy Spirit did not come until he ascended to heaven, though perhaps not all the authority he would before he died and was resurrected. This all means he is sitting on the throne of David in the kingdom of God which has expanded to include everything in heaven and on earth and not just the territory David ruled over.
As for “theos” it is not a reserved word though perhaps the “Pantokrator” is. You can see for yourself though.
A source for “theos”.
A source for “Pantokrator”.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,07:09)
Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you?Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
I do not believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” as I only believe there is one “Supreme Being” and that is the Father. Perhaps my idea of a “Supreme Being” is different than yours.
Ok fair enough. But remember we are talking about “a being” here. For instance is a poodle in nature a supreme being over a mutt?Now as far as the nature of Jesus, can you tell me one thing that makes the Father in nature greater than Jesus? Is there one quality, attribute or characteristic of the Father that Jesus does not have?
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
I believe Jesus is the one God made King of everything in heaven and on earth which authority and therefore power.
Sounds like a supreme being to me! But your statement disagrees with Paul when he says…So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that “THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if “THERE ARE SO CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH” (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
How do you explain this contradiction?
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
Scripture clearly indicates he received some, as the Holy Spirit did not come until he ascended to heaven, though perhaps not all the authority he would before he died and was resurrected.
Where is the scriptural evidence for your statements? For instance,Jesus said…
The Father loveth the Son, and “HATH GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND”. John 3:35
”ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE”: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:15
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, “ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH”. Matt. 28:18
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
This all means he is sitting on the throne of David in the kingdom of God which has expanded to include everything in heaven and on earth and not just the territory David ruled over.
OK lets see what that means.Would you say that Heaven where Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, (not beneath him or above him and with all authority and power being subject to him) is above every thing in the universe and over all created matter, time and space?
Scripturally I would say yes. Now use your finite mind for a moment and try and imagine what that means. Think of how vast the Universe is and the billions of Galaxies out there, infinite in number and space. Then think of this Jesus who by him all things are upheld by the word of his power (Heb 1:3) and by him all things consist, (Col 1:17) and that not only that but this Jesus is inside of his Body the church and in the midst of millions of believers all over the world answering their prayers and blessing them all at once for he says where 2 or 3 are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them.
With that in mind how can you in good conscience reduce Jesus to less than being a supreme being? Or to be less than the Father in nature when the scriptures clearly teach he is the “image of the invisible God” and if you see him as less than God then you are not seeing a true image of God?
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
As for “theos” it is not a reserved word though perhaps the “Pantokrator” is. You can see for yourself though.A source for “theos”.
OK so which definition below do you choose, and what scripture do you have to back it up in light of 1 Cor 8:4,5? Trinitarians can back up that Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are “True Theos” but the evidence shows that any other theos is nothing but a so-called theos or false.1.a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities
2.the Godhead, trinity
a.God the Father, the first person in the trinity
b.Christ, the second person of the trinity
c.Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
3.spoken of the only and true God
a.refers to the things of God
b.his counsels, interests, things due to him
4.whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a.God's representative or viceregent
1.of magistrates and judgesQuote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09)
A source for “Pantokrator”.
1.he who holds sway over all things
2.the ruler of all
3.almighty: GodThis is a good definition of who Jesus is.
Jesus is the believers Lord and God. You said so yourself, but for some reason you do not speak of him in that way very often. Why?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,07:09) Quote Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you? Now show me any other example that “theos” is used for a supreme being. If you can't then the whole Idea that because other beings are referred to as “gods” Jesus cannot be “The True God” is a strawman especially when scriptures clearly call him God.
WJ
It doesn't matter if Jesus is “a” supreme being The Father is The Most High Supreme being.
And yes if Paul reffered to Satan as a god how is it you can pick and choose who qualifies? That is exactly why Jesus Christ the One you Worship made it Clear THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus didn't say me and the Father are the only true God he Said that The Father is The Only True God and yet you don't believe even Jesus.
What would you have said if Jesus said that to you as he said it to that woman that day, when he looked her in the eyes and said: The FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD. would you have said no Jesus the Father is not? That's why not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom all though they may prophesy or heal in the name of Jesus because Jesus said only those who do the will of the Fathe shall enter Heaven and worshipping any other god before Him is a violation of the First and Greatest Commandment.
You went so far as to label yourself “Worshiping Jesus” You didn't even give Glory To The Father of Lights you should change your name on the board immediately to be in alignment with Christ who Worships his Father God Almighty lest he spit you out!
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,08:09) Worshipping Jesus wrote: Quote Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you?
I do not believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” as I only believe there is one “Supreme Being” and that is the Father. Perhaps my idea of a “Supreme Being” is different than yours.
I believe Jesus is the one God made King of everything in heaven and on earth which authority and therefore power. Scripture clearly indicates he received some, as the Holy Spirit did not come until he ascended to heaven, though perhaps not all the authority he would before he died and was resurrected. This all means he is sitting on the throne of David in the kingdom of God which has expanded to include everything in heaven and on earth and not just the territory David ruled over.
As for “theos” it is not a reserved word though perhaps the “Pantokrator” is. You can see for yourself though.
A source for “theos”.
A source for “Pantokrator”.
Your post was very much accurate but the Holy Spirit was here before Jesus came and when he was here John Had it, Zachariah had it Elizabeth Had it the Prophetess Anna had it, Mary Had it… There were many people who had it the disciples received as Jesus was leaving because there belief was attached to him so much they couldn't believe in their own faith until he left.Remember when he sent them to heal others in a town and when Jesus got there the people were upset because they had not been healing everyone and Jesus called them wicked because they did not believe that they could. Just like peter starting to walk on water and then doubted.
So, the Spirit has always been available to those who love Our Father and ask for his guidance and spirit. Elijah extremely filled with the Holy Spirit and Elisha asked for a double portion of Elijah's spirit and received it and Elisha was so filled with the Spirit of God that when Elisha died his bones brought a dead man back to life. Praise God!
God Bless you Always!
WJ…..why did Jesus say God the Father was greater the him then, and say he could do nothing of himself if He is God himself, doesn't scripture say GOD does all things after the council of His own WILL, and Jesus said He came not to DO His will but the will of Him who sent Him.
1Co 15:27….> For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the SON also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may be all in all.Wj………break that down word for word and you will have your answer, as to who is in POWER and FOR how long and FOR What reason.
(ONE) GOD WJ that will be (ALL) in (ALL), not two or three triune anythings brother. IMOlove and peace to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,12:19) Quote Now as far as the nature of Jesus, can you tell me one thing that makes the Father in nature greater than Jesus? Is there one quality, attribute or characteristic of the Father that Jesus does not have? He is The Father of Jesus. Do you not understand That God our Father gave Jesus his Authority? But now I ask you, who gave The Father His Power?
BTW, Jesus said about the Father that His is The Kingdom, The Power and The Glory Forever
Also, who is the Head of Christ?
Repent my friend, Repent!
Hi bodhitharta,
All are good posts on the 'Only True God the Father'. I appreciate all your posts. If we see God in the light of Jewish Monotheism we will not deviate from this truth which Jesus being a Jew preached. But the Hellenism and Greek Paganism which entered the Christianity spoilled everything and deviated from the religion of Jesus and from the Only True God of Jesus.
May God continue to reveal more things through you.Peace to you
AdamWorshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Where is the scriptural evidence for your statements? For instance,
If you read this and consider that John is speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit which only happens after Jesus’ ascends to heaven then you will realize John is prophesying of what will be and not what was at that time.
John 3:31-36(NIV) reads:
Quote “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.”
This next one is self explanatory if you read verse 7as it indicate Jesus cannot send the Spirit until he dies, is resurrected, and ascends to heaven.
John 16:7-15(NIV) reads:
Quote But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
Matthew 28:18 occurs after his death and resurrection but before his ascension. It is possible he could have the ability to send the Spirit at that point though he has technically not yet sitting on the throne of David. I cannot say for sure because I do not know exactly what he meant by saying “he had to go away.” Still I do know the Spirit did not come until Pentecost.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Would you say that Heaven where Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, (not beneath him or above him and with all authority and power being subject to him) is above every thing in the universe and over all created matter, time and space?
Genesis 48:14(NIV) reads:
Quote But Israel reached out his right hand and put it on Ephraim's head, though he was the younger, and crossing his arms, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, even though Manasseh was the firstborn.
Scripture is not saying God made Jesus equal to God in authority rather Jesus is God’s sole representative and God’s other agents represent God through Jesus.
WJ………..you ask would you say the Heaven where Jesus is seated at the right hand of the FATHER, (not beneath him or above him and with all authority and power being subject to him) is above everything in the universe and over all created matter, time and space. So from that not true statement you conclude Jesus is the TRUE GOD of ALL. NOW with that in mind go and reread 2 Th 2, about the man of sin and then ask yourself what have you just said, and does it fit, brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene
bodhitarta said:
Quote Grace and blesings be to you all in the name of The Merciful and Compassionate God our Father and the Father and God of Christ Jesus. bodhitarta,
Do you suppose that Jesus Himself was less compassionate than the “true God” when He took spitting in the face and laid down His life for you? Jesus said:
Quote Greater love has no one than this: that he lay down his life for his friends Who layed down his life? The Father or the Son? If the “true God” is compassionate and Jesus' compassion MATCHES the compassion of the “true God”, then….
bodhitarta said:
Quote Jesus called the Father THEE ONLY TRUE GOD The above statement is just another boring example of how non-trinitarians white out the statements in Scripture they DON'T LIKE. Jesus expounded in His prayer and said,
Quote And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world began (17:5) The selective use of the Scripture by non-trinitarians is getting so old that I have found myself yawning every time I read one of their posts. When will non-trinitarians present a real challenge? They just pick and choose what is true and not true. The statement “only true God” in reference to the Father is true and trinitarians have consistently confessed this LONG BEFORE bodhitatra was conceived. Yet Christ said that He shared God's glory and the non-trinitarians white this out.
YHWH said:
Quote I am YHWH, this is My name; and My glory I will not give to another (Isaiah 42:8) How could Jesus have shared the Father's glory if He was “another” than God?
Let bodhitarta chew on this for a while.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 18 2009,07:09)
Surely you believe Jesus is a “Supreme Being” don't you?Now show me any other example that “theos” is used for a supreme being. If you can't then the whole Idea that because other beings are referred to as “gods” Jesus cannot be “The True God” is a strawman especially when scriptures clearly call him God.
WJ
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
It doesn't matter if Jesus is “a” supreme being The Father is The Most High Supreme being.
So what is your point? Of course Jesus is not above the Father, but, at this time Jesus is not beneath him either for scriptures show Jesus is at his right hand. Jesus has a role and the Father has a role and the Holy Spirit has a role. But if you think that the Father being greater than Jesus is speaking to his ontology then you are creating a straw man.Are you greater than your natural Father in nature? Is your Father less human than you are? The President of the USA is greater than you but, is he less human than you? When you can show me in nature (his attributes, qualities, Etc.) by scripture how Jesus is less than the Father then you may have a point, if not then you have no case.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
And yes if Paul reffered to Satan as a god how is it you can pick and choose who qualifies?
I didn’t pick and choose, the Apostle Paul did……”THERE IS NO GOD BUT ONE“. For even if “THERE ARE SO CALLED GODS, WHETHER IN HEAVEN OR ON EARTH” (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 1 Cor 8:4, 5
Which part of this scripture is not clear to you? Do you think Paul is contradicting himself when he calls satan the god of this world? No, it is Paul that writes satan appears as an angel of light. To Paul satan is a so-called god who usurps power over men for he is a counterfeit and an imposter. Jesus knew this when satan sought for his worship. Do you see satan as a god? I don’t even capitalize his name for he is nothing to me and he should be nothing to every believer.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
That is exactly why Jesus Christ the One you Worship made it Clear THAT THE FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD and Jesus didn't say me and the Father are the only true God he Said that The Father is The Only True God and yet you don't believe even Jesus.
You put words in my mouth for I never said the Father is not the “Only True God”. You need to go and learn what a Trinitarian believes. Scripture also declares Jesus is God. Trinitarians believe the whole council of God in that we believe the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are One.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
What would you have said if Jesus said that to you as he said it to that woman that day, when he looked her in the eyes and said: The FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
Get your facts straight friend. Jesus was not speaking to a woman when he said that, in fact he was praying to the Father.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50) would you have said no Jesus the Father is not?
No, as a strict Monotheist Hebrew I would have probably questioned why Jesus spoke his own name in third person right next to the Fathers and then say that knowing him and the Father is a prerequisite to Eternal life.,Especially when I had heard Jesus say earlier…
Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and “YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, PHILIP? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; AND HOW SAYEST THOU THEN, SHEW US THE FATHER”? John 14:9
Why didnt Jesus just say “This is eteranl life that they might know thee the only True God?
Why did he add “AND” Jesus Christ and then pray for the Glory he shared with the Father from the foundation of the world? So until you can show me that Jesus is a false God then I believe he is “True God” as the scriptures declare.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
That's why not everyone who says Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom all though they may prophesy or heal in the name of Jesus because Jesus said only those who do the will of the Fathe shall enter Heaven and worshipping any other god before Him is a violation of the First and Greatest Commandment.
Yet we see Jesus being “worshipped”, [proskyneō], (the same Greek word Jesus spoke of for worship to the Father in John 4:23, 24).And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And “THEY CAME AND HELD HIM BY THE FEET, AND WORSHIPPED (PROSKYNEŌ ) HIM”. Matt 28:9
Do a search and see how many times this happened, yet when this was happening not one time did Jesus ever tell them to not worship him but worship the Father. The Father commands the Angels to worship him.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 18 2009,13:50)
You went so far as to label yourself “Worshiping Jesus” You didn't even give Glory To The Father of Lights you should change your name on the board immediately to be in alignment with Christ who Worships his Father God Almighty lest he spit you out!
Empty threats! Who are you to judge me? You do not know my heart or my relationship with God. Can you show me where I am not to give glory and honor and praise and worship to Jesus when it is clear the Apostles and even the Angels do?
I give the same honor to Jesus I give to my Father, how about you?
WJ
Quote (Gene @ April 18 2009,14:05) WJ…..why did Jesus say God the Father was greater the him then, and say he could do nothing of himself if He is God himself, doesn't scripture say GOD does all things after the council of His own WILL, and Jesus said He came not to DO His will but the will of Him who sent Him.
1Co 15:27….> For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the SON also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may be all in all.Wj………break that down word for word and you will have your answer, as to who is in POWER and FOR how long and FOR What reason.
(ONE) GOD WJ that will be (ALL) in (ALL), not two or three triune anythings brother. IMOlove and peace to you and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ April 18 2009,14:05) WJ…..why did Jesus say God the Father was greater the him then,
Are you greater than your Father?” Are you less human than your Father.You are creating a strawman.
Quote (Gene @ April 18 2009,14:05) and say he could do nothing of himself if He is God himself, doesn't scripture say GOD does all things after the council of His own WILL, and Jesus said He came not to DO His will but the will of Him who sent Him.
There you go again Gene pulling parts of scripture out of the air and quoting them out of context.Yes and Jesus also said…
Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, “the Son can do nothing of Himself“, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; “FOR WHATEVER THE FATHER DOES, THESE THINGS THE SON ALSO DOES IN LIKE MANNER“. John 5:19
Gene, do you believe Jesus words when he says “”FOR WHATEVER THE FATHER DOES, THESE THINGS THE SON ALSO DOES IN LIKE MANNER”? You see how your bias reads into it? Jesus says that he does nothing “by himself”, not that he doesn’t do anything, and only the Father does like you propose. . Can you see that?
Of course he is doing the will of the Father for Jesus never does anything without the Father, and the Father never does anything without the Son
Quote (Gene @ April 18 2009,14:05) 1Co 15:27….> For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the SON also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD may be all in all.
Good scripture Gene. But did you notice that the scripture says all things are under Jesus feet and in the future Jesus will be subjected to the Father. But, again your bias reads into it something else like this means Jesus is not God.George Bush was president of the USA and over all, until Obama was elected and now he is president and over all, but is Bush less human than Obama. You guys don’t get it do you? The scriptures call Jesus God and claim at the same time there is no other God but one, so you guys live with contradictions. Trinitarians accept the whole council of God found in the scriptures.
WJ
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2009,18:49) Worshipping Jesus wrote: Quote Where is the scriptural evidence for your statements? For instance,
If you read this and consider that John is speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit which only happens after Jesus’ ascends to heaven then you will realize John is prophesying of what will be and not what was at that time.
John 3:31-36(NIV) reads:
Quote “The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him.”
This next one is self explanatory if you read verse 7as it indicate Jesus cannot send the Spirit until he dies, is resurrected, and ascends to heaven.
John 16:7-15(NIV) reads:
Quote But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned. “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.
Matthew 28:18 occurs after his death and resurrection but before his ascension. It is possible he could have the ability to send the Spirit at that point though he has technically not yet sitting on the throne of David. I cannot say for sure because I do not know exactly what he meant by saying “he had to go away.” Still I do know the Spirit did not come until Pentecost.
Worshipping Jesus wrote:
Quote Would you say that Heaven where Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, (not beneath him or above him and with all authority and power being subject to him) is above every thing in the universe and over all created matter, time and space?
Genesis 48:14(NIV) reads:
Quote But Israel reached out his right hand and put it on Ephraim's head, though he was the younger, and crossing his arms, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, even though Manasseh was the firstborn.
Scripture is not saying God made Jesus equal to God in authority rather Jesus is God’s sole representative and God’s other agents represent God through Jesus.
Hi kerwinNone of what you post makes any sense to me. Jesus had the Spirit without measure long before the outpouring in Acts 2.
Ask yourself how he could have the infinite Gods Spirit without measure?
And I might add to think about the infinite Spirit of God being subject to Jesus and being sent by Jesus and in fact Jesus is the actual baptiser of the Holy Spirit.
Yet you do not think he is a “Supreme being”?
WJ
Worshiping Jesus wrote:
Quote None of what you post makes any sense to me.
I believe you do not understand my post since I was pointing out Jesus did not have the ability(authority) to send the Spirit to those who believed in him until he had “gone away”.
Worshiping Jesus wrote:
Quote Jesus had the Spirit without measure long before the outpouring in Acts 2.
I agree since God did say He would put His spirit on His servant which means Jesus is not equal to God or he would not be God's servant.
Worshiping Jesus wrote:
Quote And I might add to think about the infinite Spirit of God being subject to Jesus and being sent by Jesus and in fact Jesus is the actual baptizer of the Holy Spirit.
You have a point here that deserves more examination though I am not going to do it at the moment.
Hi Kerwin
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,06:33) None of what you post makes any sense to me. Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2009,08:28) I believe you do not understand my post since I was pointing out Jesus did not have the ability(authority) to send the Spirit to those who believed in him until he had “gone away”.
And yet Jesus breathed on the disciples and said “recieve the Holy Spirit” before he ascended.Have you ever considered that his action breathing on them the Holy Spirit is an act of deity?
the Lord God formed the man* from the dust of the ground and “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life“, and the man became a living being. Gen 2:7
But why do you think Jesus didn't have the “authority” before he ascended? Jesus never said he didn't have the “authority” he said…
The Father loveth the Son, and “HATH GIVEN ALL THINGS INTO HIS HAND”. John 3:35
”ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE”: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:15
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, “ALL POWER IS GIVEN UNTO ME IN HEAVEN AND IN EARTH”. Matt. 28:18
Could it be that he just needed to ascend so he could send the Spirit as he said? Do you have to read into it anymore than that?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,06:33) Jesus had the Spirit without measure long before the outpouring in Acts 2. Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2009,08:28) I agree since God did say He would put His spit on His servant which means Jesus is not equal to God or he would not be God's servant.
Spoken by a true Unitarian who sees Jesus through his Arian glasses and not the scriptures in Phil 2:6-8 and other places.Can you show me where the Father “Spit” on Jesus? Does this mean to you that Jesus is just a mere man and Gods Spirit is just “Spit”?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 19 2009,06:33)
And I might add to think about the infinite Spirit of God being subject to Jesus and being sent by Jesus and in fact Jesus is the actual baptizer of the Holy Spirit.Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2009,08:28) You have a point here that deserves more examination though I am not going to do it at the moment.
I understand why you would have to think about that.Please be honest and not just bring more spin.
WJ
Kerwin said:
Quote I agree since God did say He would put His spit on His servant which means Jesus is not equal to God or he would not be God's servant. WJ replied:
Quote Spoken by a true Unitarian who sees Jesus through his Arian glasses and not the scriptures in Phil 2:6-8 and other places. WJ,
Well done!The Unitarian would rather pit Scripture against Scripture. He cannot conceive of God becoming a servant. The idea of the Lawgiver Himself being made under law and under God is a stupid idea to him. The “god” of the Unitarian is too transcendant to be a servant Himself.
thinker
WJ……………….Why does Jesus say in Like manor, You say Jesus is GOD right, But Jesus said He could do (NOTHING) by HIMSELF, Scripture say GOD does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) Will. why does Jesus who you say is GOD need to do any thing Like the FATHER if He himself is a GOD as you assert. You seem to not be able to comprehend that GOD can (INDWELL) (ANYONE), He was (IN) Jesus reconciling the world unto (HIMSELF). God is SPIRIT (intellect) expressed by WORDS. Jesus never did (ONE) miracle HIMSELF, But GOD did them conforming the words He spoke , which by the way were (NOT) his as he said. Neither did he his WILL but the will of the (ONE) who sent Him. Interesting GOD would do his (own will) by His (own words) and by His own (POWER) . But Jesus said He didn't do his own will, and did not speak his own words, and use his own power. Even in revelations Jesus is portrayed as a (SLAIN) Lamb, Why is that WJ, is it because He put His Will to death and as a result has been given the seven Spirits of GOD which effect the (ONE) GOD”S WILL. This all is an example to all of us of what must happen in us in order to become a son or daughter of the (ONE) GOD. The trinitarian separation, along with creating an idolatrous condition of Jesus from our likeness is the Error of the Trinity. Jesus was a man who GOD perfected not a GOD who GOD perfected. IMO
peace and love………………………………..gene
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