Jesus is the image and we are an image

[RokkaMan]

And your wrong again that sin is a learned behavior. We do go through a time of innocence when we are born, but when we fully come into our “free will” we CHOOSE to do whatever we want.

God created us with the ability to sin, when he gave us free will.

So it isn't learned, it was ordained.

That is why he felt responsible for OUR mistake…and offered himself as a sacrifice through the manifestation of HIS son, Jesus Christ.

Seeing as how the sins of The Father are visited by the son.

God's perfect mistake (yet it wasn't a mistake nor a sin) of giving mankind free will, was reconciled through the blood of his Son.

And with that same mistake of free will, can we be saved if we CHOOSE to freely accept Jesus Christ.

Like i've said countless times, EVERYTHING GOD DOES can be understood through a paradox.

It was a mistake to give mankind free will, yet it wasn't.
God took responsibility for it through Jesus Christ, yet he didn't by giving us the responsibility to choose him.

And any other tough question, if you say the answer is BOTH you will get the truth.

[NickHassan]

Hi RM,
You can accuse God of making mistakes?
Wow

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (RokkaMan @ June 25 2010,03:25)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 25 2010,03:11) Quote (JustAskin @ June 24 2010,09:12) Gene, The only sinful things in the world are man and the fallen angels. Man is born in sin 'and falls short of the glory of God'. Every man is in sin and needs to repent, even the one that has not yet physically sinned. I think there is a human desire to think of babies as innocent. This is wrongful thinking…it is based on emotion. Emotion cannot judge adequately. Does one feel sorry for a 'baby' cancer cell? No, you need to be unemotional and cut out all cancerous growth without measure else what is left will spread with vigour worse thsn the established cancer cells. What did God do to the King who did not destroy ALL of the nation that God instructed him to destroy…men, women, children, cattle, chattle, everything…? Was God sympathetic with the children 'who had not yet sinned (by your reckoning?)?? Psalm 51:5…Psalm 53… JA………..I will agree man is born (INTO) a Sinful World, But as a Child He or She is (NOT) a Sinner , We all (BECOME) sinners do to exposures. “FOR (ALL) THAT IS IN THE WORLD, THE LUST OF THE EYES , THE LUST OF THE FLESH, THE PRIDE FROM LIFE, IS OF THE WORLD.  Sin is a learned behavior, again while we all have a propensity to sin, due to our flesh natures, we are not born sinners, we become sinners. I would like to see one scripture that says we are (BORN) sinners, and i will change my thinking brother. Would it be fair for GOD to hold us accountable it we were born a sinner, how could we help it is we sin then? peace and love to you and yours……………….gene Here's your verse to change your thinking… Exodus 34:7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Exodus 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, Duetoronomy 5:9Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, Numbers 14:18 The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, forgiving iniquity and transgression, but he will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, to the third and the fourth generation.’ There's a plethora of scripture that states we are born sinners due to the sins of our Father….tracing all the way back to Adam. Why else do we die physical deaths? Because Adam sinned. ———

RM………..What you posted only proves my point , why could God visit the Iniquities of the Father on their Childern, is it not because they pasted their iniquities on to their Childern , they teach them right. “Train up an child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart” it says. That can apply to Good as well as Evil. Naturally God could visit those same iniquities again, because they were pass on to the childern. That has nothing to do with the Subject of a Child Being (BORN) EVIL does it? Again i maintain a Child is born (INTO) a Sinful world, and He becomes infected with it, much like a virus infects us when we get sick, sin has the same effect on our lives it sickens it until we die from it. IMO

You say there is Plethora of scriptures, (what ever that means), that say we are born sinners, So produce (ONE) scripture that say that “WE ARE BORN SINNERS” I have yet to see it.

Jesus didn't seem to think the Childern were sinners, and When GOD destroyed all the Israelites that came out of Egypt , He did not hold those below twenty years of age responsible did he. Were they not also sinners according to you thinking.

I still maintain sin is a learned behavior. IMO

peace and love …………………….gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 24 2010,07:19)

Quote (942767 @ June 24 2010,06:46) Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2010,12:18) Quote (942767 @ June 24 2010,11:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,15:51) T8, No problem i thought it would be good for the sake of discussion. To All, What is the differense between the word image and likeness or are they used interchangablely? Oberservation. The bible says that man i.e. Adam and eve were made in the image of God but not us. because Seth was made in the image of Adam WHO was now sinful The IMAGE of God is Jesus, but when he became man, he was in the LIKENESSS of man, and our sinfull nature. We become the IMAGE of God when we become the NEWMan. and we become that new man through Jesus Christ. in simple terms, the image of God is unto the perfect man,  The first Adam and the Second. Through the First we lost that image, through the Second we ressurected that image. Therefore the image of God is Christ his perfect image, flawless. Hi SF: And so, Seth was now sinful because Adam sinned? Love in Christ, Marty Hi SF: And so, Seth was now sinful because Adam sinned? Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty (numbers), (Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13) Romans 5:14-19 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification. For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Yes, Ed.: I am aware of those scriptures.  Death reigned because all men have sinned.  They did not have a direct commandment from God like Adam had, but they transgressed God's unwritten Law.  All have sinned. Enoch repented and walked with God.  All had the opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God. Love in Christ, Marty Numbers, I didnt say that Sith was sinful. I said that Seth was created in the image of Adam in his fallen state and conditions. thats all i said. Therefore Seth had to deal with the same CONSEQUENCES that Adam had, and anything that ADam had to go through, therefore he could be TEMPTED VERY EASILY. Just like Cain, Seth could be tempted but made other choices, anythign other than that is speculation. we just know that SEth was— ***(sorry i sent it early in acccident so im editing it to add the rest of what i was going to say.  for some reason pressing enter, posts what i have written before im finished.. sorry guys….)*** —IMPERFECT!!! He was not PERFECT. therefore distorted. He was not a perfect being. but a distorted being.  a fallen state, not orginal state. Who said that ENoch repented? thats speculation. Simply it says that ENoch walked with God! thats it, had a personal relationship with him,  and was TRANSLATED.  thats it. we dont know anything else, unless we include the book of Enoch. This is what God searches for a person to be open to him, Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

Bump for Numbers,

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,00:00)

Hi RM, You can accuse God of making mistakes? Wow

Nick,

You know very well that RM didnt mean it that way.
Read what he wrote.
Be lead by the Spirit, not by your carnal judgement.

[NickHassan]

Hi SF,
3 times he spoke of God's MISTAKE.
But he did not mean it that way??

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2010,00:59)

Hi SF, 3 times he spoke of God's MISTAKE. But he did not mean it that way??

Nick,
If you knew him, you would understand.
Take my word for it, as a brother in Christ,
His meaning is deeper.

[JustAskin]

RM,

I told you before about 'LukeWarm'.

Saying everything is 'Yes' and everything is 'No'.

A rather cinical way of appearing to be right in all things.

Well, my man, what it does is show that you cannot commit.

And someone who cannot commit, is not worth anything because no one knows where he stands.

That is why Jesus said, 'Oh how I desire that you were either hot or cold…for lukewarm is bitter to the taste'

You seem incapable of understanding this simple precept. Why?… “Actually, I do…but then again, I don't”

“God is not a God of confusion”(God is not a paradox nor causes such)

You have invented a new testimony and now realise that there is a paradix in what You created and yet you try to deploy it like a cancer onto others hoping some innocent person will agree with you. So far, happily, noone has.

Also, you accuse God of making mistakes…wow…you are beyond incredible!

God 'regretted' that he made mankind. To regret something does not imply that it 'must be' the regretter who made a 'mistake'. It implies that a mistake was made by someone. In this case, it was man, Adam, who made the mistake.

God regretted the fact that the one he gave free will to had abused that free will.

RM, I regret to say, ''You're fired''!

[chosenone]

My opinion if I may…

You say…

Quote

Jesus is the [visible] image of God, yes? But Man was also created in the [visible] image of God, yes?

The first statement “Jesus is the [visible] image of God, yes?” I agree, yes.

The second staement…”But Man was also created in the [visible] image of God, yes?” No, I disagree, the scripture Gn.1:26, correctly translated… And saying is the Alueim, “Make will We humanity in our Image…” And in Gn.1:27, And creating is the Alueim humanity in His image. In the image of the Alueim He creates it. Male and female He creates them.

Notice that these statements are yet future, “Make WILL We”… (vs. 27) and “CREATING” is the Alueim…” (vs. 28)

Scripture states that only Christ is the “Image of the invisable God” at this time (era), but mankind will be at the “consummation”, (the completed creation) when God will be “All in all” (1Cor. 15:28)

This is how I see it.

God Bless, Jerry.

PS. I use the “Concordant version” of scripture. I believe this to be the most accurate translation, it is a literal translation. If interseted how this translation originated, see the website “concordant.org”

[Proclaimer]

Image = eikon {i-kone'}
Word Origin: from 1503
TDNT: 2:381,203
Part of Speech: noun feminine

Total: 23
Definition: an image, figure, likeness

[Proclaimer]

We are created in the image of God.
Jesus is the image of God.

Is the difference the word “created”?

Does it say anywhere that Jesus was created in the image of God?

[Proclaimer]

Just as Christ is the glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man, so it is that the woman is not the man and Jesus is not God.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 24 2010,05:21)

t8, I was being humerous it wasnt a serious arguement.

Actually all joking aside, the definition of the word “image” is as follows:

eikon {i-kone'}
Part of Speech: noun feminine
Definition: an image, figure, likeness

[GeneBalthrop]

T8………..You need to now look up what our definition of and (IMAGE) is, right. It is to Mirror or refection of something , Jesus reflected GOD the FATHER to US all. But a reflection is never the thing it reflects, As the decieved Trinitarians think. We are to all Grow to reflect GOD the Father as Jesus does, but that does not make us all God's , just his childern who have His (seed) Holy Spirit in us. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene

[942767]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 25 2010,06:45)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 24 2010,07:19) Quote (942767 @ June 24 2010,06:46) Quote (Ed J @ June 24 2010,12:18) Quote (942767 @ June 24 2010,11:04) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,15:51) T8, No problem i thought it would be good for the sake of discussion. To All, What is the differense between the word image and likeness or are they used interchangablely? Oberservation. The bible says that man i.e. Adam and eve were made in the image of God but not us. because Seth was made in the image of Adam WHO was now sinful The IMAGE of God is Jesus, but when he became man, he was in the LIKENESSS of man, and our sinfull nature. We become the IMAGE of God when we become the NEWMan. and we become that new man through Jesus Christ. in simple terms, the image of God is unto the perfect man,  The first Adam and the Second. Through the First we lost that image, through the Second we ressurected that image. Therefore the image of God is Christ his perfect image, flawless. Hi SF: And so, Seth was now sinful because Adam sinned? Love in Christ, Marty Hi SF: And so, Seth was now sinful because Adam sinned? Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty (numbers), (Matt.7:7 / 2Tm.2:13) Romans 5:14-19 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offenses unto justification. For if by one man's offense death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org Yes, Ed.: I am aware of those scriptures.  Death reigned because all men have sinned.  They did not have a direct commandment from God like Adam had, but they transgressed God's unwritten Law.  All have sinned. Enoch repented and walked with God.  All had the opportunity to repent and be reconciled to God. Love in Christ, Marty Numbers, I didnt say that Sith was sinful. I said that Seth was created in the image of Adam in his fallen state and conditions. thats all i said. Therefore Seth had to deal with the same CONSEQUENCES that Adam had, and anything that ADam had to go through, therefore he could be TEMPTED VERY EASILY. Just like Cain, Seth could be tempted but made other choices, anythign other than that is speculation. we just know that SEth was— ***(sorry i sent it early in acccident so im editing it to add the rest of what i was going to say.  for some reason pressing enter, posts what i have written before im finished.. sorry guys….)*** —IMPERFECT!!! He was not PERFECT. therefore distorted. He was not a perfect being. but a distorted being.  a fallen state, not orginal state. Who said that ENoch repented? thats speculation. Simply it says that ENoch walked with God! thats it, had a personal relationship with him,  and was TRANSLATED.  thats it. we dont know anything else, unless we include the book of Enoch. This is what God searches for a person to be open to him, Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever. Bump for Numbers,

Hi SF:

This is what you said:

Quote

The bible says that man i.e. Adam and eve were made in the image of God but not us. because Seth was made in the image of Adam WHO was now sinful

Love in Christ,
Marty

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (t8 @ June 25 2010,02:10)

Just as Christ is the glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man, so it is that the woman is not the man and Jesus is not God.

But the man and the woman are “One flesh” and Jesus and the Father are “One Spirit”.

The man and the woman is human, and Jesus and the Father are God!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Are you not one Spirit with God in His Son yet?
Stop philosophising and do something useful with your life.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,09:03)

Quote (t8 @ June 25 2010,02:10) Just as Christ is the glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man, so it is that the woman is not the man and Jesus is not God. But the man and the woman are “One flesh” and Jesus and the Father are “One Spirit”. The man and the woman is human, and Jesus and the Father are God! WJ

WJ, If the woman and the man are one flesh, then that that doesn't make them the same being does it? No they are made of the same stuff. In quality the same, different identities, different beings. Human is the quality or type, and Adam, Eve, whoever are the persons who are beings in their own right.

So it is with God and Jesus. We are told that he existed in the form of God (nature/quality), but we know that he is not God himself. Not God in identity. It is the Father WHO is God. He is the Most High God.

I will say it again, if Trinitarians knew the difference between nature and identity, they wouldn't be Trinitarians and if they decided to stay Trinitarians, then they need to play word games and ignore the difference between type and identity or who and what.

[Ed J]

To All,

Rev.13:15 And he (Antichrist) had power to give life unto the image of the (Adam) beast,
that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as
would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

                       Understanding this image ( Click Here) <– Third and Last Post  (And Click Here)

In Rev.13:15 the false prophet causes those who don't worship this image of Adam should be killed.   HOW ?
By claiming a futuristic (false) flesh return of Jesus; whoever does not worship this image is killed! (John 16:1-3)

                     Jesus returned at Pentecost (Click Here)

We need to fully understand the difference between the image of Adam and Christ!
1Cor.15:49: And as we have borne the image of the earthy(Like Seth), (Rev. 13:15)
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly(Same as Christ!). (2Corinthians 4:3-4)

God bless
Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Eccl.9:12-16)
PS> Please read through ALL the references to understand this 'antichrist' DECEPTION!

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 26 2010,09:03)

Quote (t8 @ June 25 2010,02:10) Just as Christ is the glory of God, and the woman is the glory of the man, so it is that the woman is not the man and Jesus is not God. But the man and the woman are “One flesh” and Jesus and the Father are “One Spirit”. The man and the woman is human, and Jesus and the Father are God! WJ

WJ

you know better a men is a man and a women is a women,

the meaning of one flesh means they are one complete unit.

you say; Jesus and the Father are “One Spirit”.

now you mean ARE or OF if you say they ARE so there is no difference.

if you say they OF now it means they are different but have common purposes or …….

so what is it ??

Pierre

[Author]

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