Jesus is the image and we are an image

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ June 20 2010,22:48)

To All,

I'm confused…

Jesus is the [visible] image of God, yes?
But Man was also created in the [visible] image of God, yes?

So…is man then not a [visible] manifestation of God?

Also, in Heaven, Jesus was in the 'form of Spirit' but he then ''EMPTIED'' himself and was born in the 'form of Man'.

He was fully man and therefore the same 'image of God' as all others of Mankind or that Mankind could be, that is, Sinless.

The only difference between Jesus and any other man was that Jesus was sinless.

This single difference, like the single DNA molecule difference, science says, between Man and Ape, makes a massive difference to the being. For Jesus it means that completely believes in his creator, just as Adam would have until he was tested. Adam failed, Jesus did not.
Perhaps a thread about 'What exactly does ''in God's Image'' mean' is in the offing.

To me, it means having the spirit of truth (Holy Spirit) and Thinking, Speaking and Acting in the same manner as the creatore, God Almighty.

Therefore, Man can:
– Think original and independent thought;
– Speak those thoughts (Not simple predefined mimicks but highly complexed vocalisations);
– Act[ion] those 'Words', the vocalisation of the original and independent thought.
To wit – To be a Creator, to be a 'limited, restrained' version of God the Creator, written as 'a god'.

Hi JA.

I thought this was a vaild question and was worthy to have its own discussion. So I have created one here:

June 22, 2010 at 12:44 pm#199149

Participant

I know this is not a complete answer, but there might be some food for thought here.

God made man in his image and he created them male and female. So is he talking about both man and woman being the image?

Also, Jesus is the bridegroom and we are the bride and we know that the man is the head of the woman and Christ is the head of the man and God is the head of Christ.

Is the woman also not the image of the man?

“For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.”

My guess is that if Christ is the image of God and the firstborn of all creation and he is the head of the man and the man is the head of the woman, then an image of an image of the image of God is still an image of the original God.

June 22, 2010 at 1:10 pm#199151

Tim Kraft

Participant

Wow, thats good! Im still chewing on that one. In my opinion, that truth didn't come from flesh and blood (other doctrines)! That is pure revelation knowledge from our father God. Bless you, TK

June 22, 2010 at 2:21 pm#199153

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All………..First we need to establish what a (IMAGE) is. From what i have read it is a (reflection of something) Like when one looks into a Mirror and see His reflection , that is not Him (IN) the mirror but a reflection. This whole thing ties into understanding what (SPIRIT) really IS. Spirit is NOT a Physical thing, it is (THOUGHT) AND COMPOSES or makes up OUR (intellects) we poses (IN) Us. GOD is Pure SPIRIT and spirit can be compared to water, it can be poured out into a vessel or extracted from a vessel, as when a man dies it returns to him who gave it. The pool (so to speak) from which it came, It is what life is, all things in existence in physical form can (ONLY) reflect or image the Spirit (IN) them, from a one celled animal to a whale, it makes no different everything (Images) the Spirit (life) in then.

We are told we can see the (invisible) things of GOD through the creation. Spirit is not a being it is what is in the being , it animates it and causes it to reflect or image what spirit is (IN) it. God lives vicariously (through) his creation. He is in all thing or it would not have life. God not only Creates things He sustains them. The more Spirit we have of any kind the more we will image it. As God adds His spirit (intellects) to us the more we image or reflect his. We are born neither Good or Evil, we acquire our thought from what is in the world as we grow we recieve it into us. “All that is in the world , the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and pride of life , are (FROM) the world, John said .

This is a profound truth, it is vital in understanding the absolute power of GOD in all things. GOD creates and brings into existence his Will through the operation of HIS Spirits. All creation is in the image of GOD to one degree or another, because all creation reflects GOD in one form or another. Yes even a one celled animal has life and that life is a reflection of GOD. One GOD in all and through all things.Most hate the idea the GOD is in (FULL) control of (ALL) Life even theirs.

God Said through Jesus' mouth , all that ever came before me were lairs and thieves, Man is a thieve and lies, tries to steal glory and give it to one another. “For when they knew God they glorified him not as God , therefore he turned them over (in their) minds to do those evil things”. Spirit (IS) Thought and gives us our Intellects, rather good or evil and there is a SPIRIT of TRUTH from the GOD of all Spirits and this Intellect guides us into ALL truths, It both accuses us and defends us, it is the earnest given us from GOD.

That is why it is written. THE LORD BLESS AND KEEP YOU, THE LORD MAKE HIS FACE TO SHINE ONE YOU, AND BE GRACIOUS UNTO YOU, THE LORD LIFT UP HIS COUNTENANCE UPON YOU AND (GIVE) YOU PEACE. It is all about God and HIS Works and Words. Jesus as well as Man, are all reflecting the IMAGE of GOD to the Degree that GOD is (IN) them , The more GOD is (IN) a person the more he will IMAGE the FATHER GOD. IMO

peace and lov to you all………………………gene

June 22, 2010 at 10:07 pm#199240

942767

Participant

Hi All:

I have already given my understanding of this elsewhere, but here it is again:

The first Adam was made a living soul, like God in that he has a mind, a will and emotions and the last Adam is like God in that he is a spirit of love.

Jesus was born into this world a living soul, just as any infant except, of course, that he was conceived of the Holy Ghost rather than by the sperm of man, he became the last Adam through obedience to the Word of God without sin even unto death on the cross, and was the “first born from the dead”. It is through this sinless spirit, that “the last Adam was made a life-giving spirit”.

Jesus said, “he who has seen me has seen the Father”.

Quote

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

And so, we have seen God our Father manifest through the life that Jesus lived in obedience to God's Word, and we also who are born again are becoming like him as we learn to apply the commandments that have come from God to humanity through Jesus.
It is through these commandments, the Word of God, that we have the life of the Father. However, Jesus obeyed the commandments without sin even unto death on the cross, but we who are born again have had our sins washed away by the blood of our Lord when we have been born again from the dead and have received the Holy Spirit fall short of perfect obedience and so, we could not become like God without the blood of our Lord to wash away our sins when we fall short of perfect obedience. He lives forever to make intercession for us when we fall short of perfect obedience.

Quote

Hebrews 5:7(Jesus)Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

8Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

9And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Quote

2 Corinthians 5:19-22 (King James Version)

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

June 22, 2010 at 10:35 pm#199245

Participant

Gene,

Since everyone is born neither good nor evil (you choose two excitable words, I see) and acquire our 'sin' through what the 'lust' that in the world, do you think then that we could 'grow' a sinless person by keeping him 'from the world' from new born baby through to adulthood.
I know, make him deaf, dumb and blind, like the three wise monkeys but in one body…hmmm..i just had a thought, yeah, i know,….no, i meant, WJ, KJ and Is 1.8 (I think that's the sum of their IQ!)

IMAGE… 'In the likeness of another', 'mimicking the character and nature'(Like the ape character that TT had…very apt…no insult, he chose it himself.)

Try not to limit your definition to human wisdom.

'Image', in the case in point, is as I defined it…discuss.

The point is, if one says that Jesus is God because he is the [Visible] image of God then is not man then also God because man is made in the [Visible] image of God.
By the way, Scripture does not say that Jesus is the 'Visible' image of God. A very 'sad' person in this forum made it up to try to win a point…very sad…

By the way, i wasn't confused. It just my funny way of acting ignorant and raising an issue in the image of one who is nonplussed!

June 22, 2010 at 11:21 pm#199255

Participant

Gensis 1
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

Romans 1:23
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

1 Corinthians 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

2 Corinthians 3
17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Collossians 1
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Collossians 3
10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Philippians 2
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

June 22, 2010 at 11:51 pm#199259

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ June 23 2010,09:35)

Gene,

IMAGE… 'In the likeness of another', 'mimicking the character and nature'(Like the ape character that TT had…very apt…no insult, he chose it himself.)

Try not to limit your definition to human wisdom.

'Image', in the case in point, is as I defined it…discuss.

By the way, i wasn't confused. It just my funny way of acting ignorant and raising an issue in the image of one who is nonplussed!

Ja………The invisible attributes of GOD are seen through His creation. Jesus is a reflected those invisible attributes of GOD to Us, so he did IMAGE HIM right?

You said, “i said” everyone is born neither good or evil and acquire our sin through the world. Actually i was quoting John He is the one who said that not me. “for all that is in the world , the lust of the eyes , the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life , are (FROM) the World. He wen on to say and the world is passing away and it's lusts with it, as i recall.

I have not found a scripture that say we are born Evil at berth so i assume we acquire it from what is Here. There is a scripture that says “train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart”. So it does appear we can learn behavior by our environments we are in. IMO

peace and love to you and yours JA……………….gene

June 23, 2010 at 4:40 am#199324

Participant

Thanks for those scriptures SF.

June 23, 2010 at 4:48 am#199327

Participant

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 23 2010,00:10)

Wow, thats good! Im still chewing on that one. In my opinion, that truth didn't come from flesh and blood (other doctrines)! That is pure revelation knowledge from our father God. Bless you, TK

Thanks TK.

I would like to add that an image and glory of something is different to that which you are imaging in this sense:

Just as Eve wasn't Adam, she was adam (which is the word for mankind). As it is written: God made 'adam', male and female.

So it stands to reason that just as Eve is not Adam, but is adam, Jesus is not God, but is divine (having God's nature).

I think this is where some men have fallen into error. They think that Jesus existing in the form of God is the same as Jesus existing as God. And just as we can say that Eve existed in the form of (adam) man(kind), we cannot say that she was Adam himself.

It is the difference between quality and identity. There is in identity one God the Father. There is one WHO is God. In quality there are others who are called 'theos' too. Even John 1:1 read with this understanding removes all confusion.

June 23, 2010 at 4:51 am#199329

Participant

T8,
No problem i thought it would be good for the sake of discussion.

To All,
What is the differense between the word image and likeness
or are they used interchangablely?

Oberservation.

The bible says that man i.e. Adam and eve were made in the image of God but not us.
because Seth was made in the image of Adam WHO was now sinful
The IMAGE of God is Jesus, but when he became man, he was in the LIKENESSS of man, and our sinfull nature.
We become the IMAGE of God when we become the NEWMan.
and we become that new man through Jesus Christ.

in simple terms, the image of God is unto the perfect man, The first Adam and the Second.
Through the First we lost that image, through the Second we ressurected that image.

Therefore the image of God is Christ his perfect image, flawless.

June 23, 2010 at 4:56 am#199331

Participant

Quote (t8 @ June 23 2010,09:48)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 23 2010,00:10)

Wow, thats good! Im still chewing on that one. In my opinion, that truth didn't come from flesh and blood (other doctrines)! That is pure revelation knowledge from our father God. Bless you, TK

Thanks TK.

I would like to add that an image and glory of something is different to that which you are imaging in this sense:

Just as Eve wasn't Adam, she was adam (which is the word for mankind). As it is written: God made 'adam', male and female.

So it stands to reason that just as Eve is not Adam, but is adam, Jesus is not God, but is divine (having God's nature).

Just to be a comedian,

Its like stating that Jesus is the wife of God?
Yet man becomes one with his Wife through mating.

I dont think that points hold compelelty, even though its a good point.

but the bible does says that Jesus wife is the church…..
What does that mean for God?

Is Jesus a role or identity?

June 23, 2010 at 5:00 am#199335

Participant

Gene,
Then you quote out of context.

You imply that we are only sinful because of what is in the world and our lust for it. so, isolate a man…does not change his nature, even from birth…

We are born IN sin.

A child is 'innocent' of his sin until he learns the law.

But even if he does not 'learn' the law [of man], he still knows the law of God that is in him. He still knows 'good and bad' and has the ability to make a choice.

God did not leave even the heathen without His guidance because it is still the spirit from God that is in that heathen. The heathen chooses to ignore the wisdom in him more likely because of social pressure, desire to conform to the norm and fit into the environment he is born in. But he can do good, but chooses to do bad, in the eyes of God.

June 23, 2010 at 5:25 am#199341

Participant

SF,

It's great that you can quote Scripture verses (Copy and Paste).

How about a little explanation of your copypaste Script…we can all google: 'Image God Jesus'!

Do you notice that none say 'He is the VISIBLE image of God'

Is the image of the invisible, the visible?

Someone is straining to make something out of what is not there?

Bring it down to fundamentals and then build it up from there.

Thefundamental 'Image of God' is 'Love'.

Jesus is a reflection of the love of God.

Man loves.

Animals do not 'love'. They have relationship with each other for procreational purposes and some even exube aspects of 'love', care, familial cooperation and mutual concern, but this, even this, is less than 'love' from a Godly point of view, being more ofna 'preprogrammed' response towards the species survival instinct. One animal 'loving..' another of its species but does it 'love' another species and care for their survival?

God designs. Man designs.

God creates. Man creates.

God destroys. Man destroys.

Man mimicks God because we are in His image.

Jesus himself says, 'I can do nothing except what I see my Father doing!'
No wonder God loves him and is 'Well pleased'. Jesus is the perfect image, imitator, mimick, reflection of the glory of his God and Father.

And they both want mankind to be redeemed and follow Jesus' example.

The Glorification of Jesus is to follow his lead.

The glorification of Jesus is also the Glorification of the Father, for to Glorify one is to glorify the other also.

June 23, 2010 at 5:32 am#199344

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ June 23 2010,10:25)

SF,

It's great that you can quote Scripture verses (Copy and Paste).

How about a little explanation of your copypaste Script…we can all google: 'Image God Jesus'!

Do you notice that none say 'He is the VISIBLE image of God'

Is the image of the invisible, the visible?

Someone is straining to make something out of what is not there?

Bring it down to fundamentals and then build it up from there.

Thefundamental 'Image of God' is 'Love'.

Jesus is a reflection of the love of God.

Man loves.

God designs. Man designs.

God creates. Man creates.

God destroys. Man destroys.

Man mimicks God because we are in His image.

And they both want mankind to be redeemed and follow Jesus' example.

The Glorification of Jesus is to follow his lead.

The glorification of Jesus is also the Glorification of the Father, for to Glorify one is to glorify the other also.

JA,
did you missed my observation above?
I did copy and paste, bc i didnt have time to give my observations so i left it like that and i already gave in explanation above.

God is love, its not the image of God.
God created animals in love for us.

God designs, which man destroy and distorts, into there own design.

God creates, Man invents out of what God created.

God destroys, Man tries to destroy

Man trys to mimick God because its in there nature to be everything God is not, man is imperfect.

Christ was Perfect,
Paul said be imitators of him, as he imitates Christ, Christ does not imitate God, he just does.

ANYWAYS,
i already responded FYI

Why is everyone attacking me today on false pretenses!!!
aghhh

June 23, 2010 at 8:14 am#199362

Participant

SF,

Perhaps the number of times you post and then apologise for simething you forgot or didn't have time to explain or didn't explain right…. Has something to do with it.

Man creates… You going too deep…yes, and i hate the word 'invent' even though i perfectly understand what it means….

What i'm saying is that man is in the likeness, the image of God.. I didn't say he was a perfect image.

Man creates (invents out of the limited and restricted bounds)

Man designs…ditto

Man destroys…. Ditto… Energy cannot be created nor destroyed…it simple changes state. Force(Latent energy)…work(active energy)…heat(excitation of elements by energy)…light(visible emination of energy)…somat else… So, no man cannot ultimately destroy, thank god..but he is trying with the LHC. When he does, boom…uncontroled release of energy beyond his imagination and control..thankfully that will never happen…i hope!

June 23, 2010 at 8:19 am#199365

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ June 23 2010,13:14)

SF,

Perhaps the number of times you post and then apologise for simething you forgot or didn't have time to explain or didn't explain right…. Has something to do with it.

Man creates… You going too deep…yes, and i hate the word 'invent' even though i perfectly understand what it means….

What i'm saying is that man is in the likeness, the image of God.. I didn't say he was a perfect image.

Man creates (invents out of the limited and restricted bounds)

Man designs…ditto

JA,
Understood, i guess people forget im Human
and that i am imperfect…

instead of invent lets use recycle. Soloman knew this.

I get your point about what man Dittos.

but Man can ditto alot of things except love and good, which comes from God.

June 23, 2010 at 10:08 am#199389

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 23 2010,15:56)

Just to be a comedian,

Its like stating that Jesus is the wife of God?
Yet man becomes one with his Wife through mating.

I dont think that points hold compelelty, even though its a good point.

but the bible does says that Jesus wife is the church…..
What does that mean for God?

Is Jesus a role or identity?

I think 'wife' is a word delegated for humans. Even animals don't have a wives as far as I know, they have a mate. Although a mate in NZ or OZ is a friend. Anyway, moving on…

The woman is the glory of the man, the man is the glory of Christ, and Christ is the glory of God.
You can replace the word glory with head.

The point is, that each one (except God as he is the Most High) is derived from the head and each one is different, even if they are composed of the same stuff, i.e., flesh or spirit. Yet each one is an image of the predecessor, the woman, the man, and Christ, and they are all images of God. Although I might make the argument that only Christ is the full image or full expression of God, whereas we reflect in part and maybe in full when all the redeemed are taken into account.

June 23, 2010 at 2:29 pm#199432

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ June 23 2010,16:00)

Gene,
Then you quote out of context.

JA………How is it I quoted Out of context. Not following you brother. No Scripture say we are born sinners that i know of, I know were are born with a Propensity to sin though. I still believe John was right in what he said. We are born into a sinful world and it rubs off on us all. IMO

WE do have the ability to absurd knowledge from our berth, but as to our ability to differentiate it, being installed by God at berth , I do not think so, “FOR IT IS NOT WITHIN A MAN TO DIRECT HIS PATHS”.

It is the Spirit given us By GOD later that gives us the ability to do this, “FOR THE SPIRIT BOTH ACCUSES YOU AND DEFENDS YOU”> A man is very much like a ship without a rudder to guide it , until GOD installs a Rudder (IN) Us. Hope this helped to show were i am coming from.

JA………Here is something i just thought about, consider the Thousand year reign of Christ and the Saints, Evil is completely removed from the earth , even the natures of the animals are changed, a (perfect) world full of Love and bless for a thousand year , then what happens at the end when Evil is released, (ALL) except Jesus and The Saints, fall into it's influence and go to war against Jesus and the Saints at Jerusalem where fire comes down from heave and devours them. Point is the Saints had God's spirit (IN) them as well as Jesus and did fall into Evil as the rest did. The thousand years Prove a (BIG) POINT> To ALL. That unless GOD is (IN) US we can not remain sinless. And remember it say “UNLESS THE LORD SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE THE BUILDERS TOIL IN VAIN, UNLESS THE LORD IS THE CITIES SHIELD THE GUARDS MAINTAIN A USELESS WATCH.”

True righteousness must be given (AND) maintained by GOD HIMSELF. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………gene

June 23, 2010 at 6:21 pm#199455