Jesus is sovereign and therefore, god

[GeneBalthrop]

Cato…….I agree with you, and Jesus said (NO) MAN HAS EVER SEEN GOD, but the SON has DISCLOSED HIM. So simple Logic would say if we can't see GOD , but we can see Jesus, then Jesus is not GOD, He simply made Him more Known to us. The Trinity is simply a LIE taught by the APOSTATE CHURCHES, A pagan teaching disguised as CHRISTIANITY. imo

peace and love to you and yours…………………gene

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,09:43)

TC27 said: Quote Marty, He did not correct them because he was still God even if he was in a more humble state at that period in time. It was only a temporary humility to become man. He knew and looked forward to his exaltation. This is so clearly taught in scripture it makes one wonder why there is even a debate. thinker

Hi thethinker:

And so, Jesus is no longer a man?

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,06:26)

Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,09:43) TC27 said: Quote Marty, He did not correct them because he was still God even if he was in a more humble state at that period in time. It was only a temporary humility to become man. He knew and looked forward to his exaltation. This is so clearly taught in scripture it makes one wonder why there is even a debate. thinker Hi thethinker: And so, Jesus is no longer a man? Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;   Love in Christ, Marty

Absolutely! Jesus is no longer a man! The “mediator” was the Jesus of history and not the Jesus of heaven. When Paul was on the road to Damascus He saw the glory of the Jesus of heaven and was made blind. No man can make a man blind by his presence. He had to take flesh and blood only temporarily. He is NOT clothed in humanity now.

His mediatorial work has been finished.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So there are two Jesus's and he is not the same yesterday today and forever?
Do men no longer needs a mediator?- they do till the remnant is saved.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,08:29)

Hi TT, So there are two Jesus's and he is not the same yesterday today and forever? Do men no longer needs a mediator?- they do till the remnant is saved.

“This I say then, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.” Jesus is NOT a man now.

All men need a mediator. But He finished the work. It's not taking Him two thousand years to make atonement.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi TT,
So Jesus was just flesh?
Are all men already reconciled to God?
Why then did Paul continue the work of reconciliation and urge us to do the same?

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 01 2009,08:21)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 01 2009,06:26) Quote (thethinker @ July 31 2009,09:43) TC27 said: Quote Marty, He did not correct them because he was still God even if he was in a more humble state at that period in time. It was only a temporary humility to become man. He knew and looked forward to his exaltation. This is so clearly taught in scripture it makes one wonder why there is even a debate. thinker Hi thethinker: And so, Jesus is no longer a man? Quote 1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;   Love in Christ, Marty Absolutely! Jesus is no longer a man! The “mediator” was the Jesus of history and not the Jesus of heaven. When Paul was on the road to Damascus He saw the glory of the Jesus of heaven and was made blind. No man can make a man blind by his presence. He had to take flesh and blood only temporarily. He is NOT clothed in humanity now. His mediatorial work has been finished. thinker

Hi thethinker:

Is he not our High Priest who lives forever to make intercession for us? And, there is something about confessing him as Lord, in order for anyone to be saved. Still a mediator, and still a man, but a man with a spiritual body. He is the last Adam.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[TrinitarianCalvinist27]

Everyone,

Why is clear Scripture so hard to see?

TC27

[NickHassan]

Hi TC,
Because there is no clear scriptural teaching that God is not one but three and the reverse is the case in the OT and the NT.
Men devised the trinity.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…………The reason flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of GOD is Because The kingdom of GOD is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can not be observed Physically. “For the Kingdom of GOD comes without observation” , you can't see it . You can see the Fruits it produces in someones life , but you can not see it, because it is Spiritually perceived through the MIND. Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus our Lord, (the SAME MIND). If this MIND be in you (IT) will also quicken your (MORTAL) Bodies (ALSO”> Like (IT) did His. The kingdom of GOD is not about flesh and blood but SPIRIT (INTELLECT OR MIND) of GOD in a person. Now the LORD gives (IT) a body Just as HE Pleases, And to (EACH) , SPIRIT(INTELLECT) a body of (ITS) OWN> Spirit is useless without a Body to animate because Spirit is PURELY INTELLECT ONLY. When we die the Spirit (intellect) goes back to Him who gave it and will remain there until GOD gives it a BODY to INHABIT. Now (IF) this MIND that Jesus Had is in You, you have passed from death to life , because the Spirit of GOD (IS) LIFE, And how do we know we have this Life in us , by our intellect, “FOR THE SPIRIT (INTELLECT ) OF GOD TESTIFIES TO OUR SPIRIT (INTELLECT) THAT WE (ARE) THE SONS OF GOD”. ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………….gene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,08:58)

Hi TT, So Jesus was just flesh? Are all men already reconciled to God? Why then did Paul continue the work of reconciliation and urge us to do the same?

Men do not continue the work of reconciliation. Jesus finished the work. We preach the message of reconciliation.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Marty said:

Quote

thethinker: Is he not our High Priest who lives forever to make intercession for us?  And, there is something about confessing him as Lord, in order for anyone to be saved.  Still a mediator, and still a man, but a man with a spiritual body.  He is the last Adam.

His intercessory work is done. He finished His intercessory work in ad70. The destruction of the temple was the sign God gave them that it is finished. It does not take two thousand years to make atonement. Jesus no longer has humanity. He has the glory He had with His Father before the world began.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,12:27)

To All…………The reason flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of GOD is Because The kingdom of GOD is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) and can not be observed Physically.  “For the Kingdom of GOD comes without observation” , you can't see it . You can see the Fruits it produces in someones life , but you can not see it, because it is Spiritually perceived through the MIND. Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus our Lord, (the SAME MIND). If this MIND be in you (IT) will also quicken your (MORTAL) Bodies (ALSO”> Like (IT) did His. The kingdom of GOD is not about flesh and blood but SPIRIT (INTELLECT OR MIND) of GOD in a person. Now the LORD gives (IT) a body Just as HE Pleases, And to (EACH) , SPIRIT(INTELLECT) a body of (ITS) OWN> Spirit is useless without a Body to animate because Spirit is PURELY INTELLECT ONLY. When we die the Spirit (intellect) goes back to Him who gave it and will remain there until GOD gives it a BODY to INHABIT. Now (IF) this MIND that Jesus Had is in You, you have passed from death to life , because the Spirit of GOD (IS) LIFE, And how do we know we have this Life in us , by our intellect, “FOR THE SPIRIT (INTELLECT ) OF GOD TESTIFIES TO OUR SPIRIT (INTELLECT) THAT WE (ARE) THE SONS OF GOD”.  ONE GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL, LET THIS MIND BE IN YOU. IMO peace and love to you all…………………….gene

Gene,
You are right that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God but for the wrong reasons.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

thinker………I find nothing wrong in what i have posted, so why do you say its right but for the wrong reasons. If there is something wrong in my reasons the post it, every thing i have posted in then post i can back scripturally. IMO

peace and love………………………gene

[glad tidings]

My brother is my Father and I don't know what to do,
For Christmas they gave me a bike, and that's my Father too!
Now “3 in 1” is the oil I use when that bike needs to be greased,
and if you can figure that one out, you'd make a darn good Priest!

I think those lyrics of “The Trinity Song” really speak volumes.:laugh:

[glad tidings]

Thinker,

In view of one of your previous posts regarding Jesus Christ being our mediator, may I invoke your consideration (i.e., tenses and grammatical construction) of I Timothy 1:5: For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Messiah], Jesus.”

Doesn't this verse seem to speak of the present tense reality of Jesus??? Does it in any way indicate a past tense concept? Does it say our mediator is the concept of a historical figure who lived 2,000 years ago?

If I'm reading this incorrectly, then why doesn't it read: “the God, Christ Jesus”?

Here's another consideration along these lines: Where in the Hebrew scriptures are the verses that portray the high priest (or give the concepts thereof) as (literally) being God? Moses is called god in Exodus, but it seems pretty clear that he's a god to Pharoh in a representational sense only.

What prophet in the OT is called Yahweh by name? What angel?

I'd be interested to see your thoughts on these matters.

Cheers

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 10 2009,15:16)

My brother is my Father and I don't know what to do, For Christmas they gave me a bike, and that's my Father too! Now “3 in  1” is the oil I use when that bike needs to be greased, and if you can figure that one out, you'd make a darn good Priest! I think those lyrics of “The Trinity Song” really speak volumes.:laugh:

Hi Glad

Maybe so, if you are a Modalist!

Trinitarians do not believe the Son is the Father!

We Believe the Son is God, as the Father, just as a natural son is as human as his natural father!

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 10 2009,16:08)

Thinker, In view of one of your previous posts regarding Jesus Christ being our mediator, may I invoke your consideration (i.e., tenses and grammatical construction) of I Timothy 1:5:  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Messiah], Jesus.”   Doesn't this verse seem to speak of the present tense reality of Jesus???  Does it in any way indicate a past tense concept?   Does it say our mediator is the concept of a historical figure who lived 2,000 years ago?   If I'm reading this incorrectly, then why doesn't it read:  “the God, Christ Jesus”? Here's another consideration along these lines:  Where in the Hebrew scriptures are the verses that portray the high priest (or give the concepts thereof) as (literally) being God?  Moses is called god in Exodus, but it seems pretty clear that he's a god to Pharoh in a representational sense only. What prophet in the OT is called Yahweh by name?  What angel? I'd be interested to see your thoughts on these matters. Cheers

Hi Glad

Quote (glad tidings @ Aug. 10 2009,16:08)

Moses is called god in Exodus, but it seems pretty clear that he's a god to Pharoh in a representational sense only.

Read the text closely, it doesnt read that Moses was called God, it reads that Moses would be as a god to Pharoah because Pharoah believed in many gods!

God is not a Polytheist, which according to the Hebrew and the definition of the word itself is the belief in more than one God!

However, Jesus is called God, even by the Father himself, yet we know there is only one God!

Therefore there is only one way to reconcile all of scriptures and that is the Trinitarian view.

while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our “great God and Savior, Jesus Christ“, Titus 2:13

There is an interesting thread on this scripture, just cleck here..

WJ

[942767]

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 10 2009,11:08)

Marty said: Quote thethinker: Is he not our High Priest who lives forever to make intercession for us?  And, there is something about confessing him as Lord, in order for anyone to be saved.  Still a mediator, and still a man, but a man with a spiritual body.  He is the last Adam. His intercessory work is done. He finished His intercessory work in ad70. The destruction of the temple was the sign God gave them that it is finished. It does not take two thousand years to make atonement. Jesus no longer has humanity. He has the glory He had with His Father before the world began. thinker

Hi thethinker:

And so, what do you say about the following scriptures?

Quote

Hbr 7:24 But this [man], because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Glad tidings said:

Quote

Here's another consideration along these lines:  Where in the Hebrew scriptures are the verses that portray the high priest (or give the concepts thereof) as (literally) being God?  Moses is called god in Exodus, but it seems pretty clear that he's a god to Pharoh in a representational sense only. What prophet in the OT is called Yahweh by name?  What angel? I'd be interested to see your thoughts on these matters. Cheers

GL,
Hebrew 3:3-4 says that Christ is “counted worthy” of much more glory than Moses. It goes on to say that the glory which Christ receives is EQUAL to the glory of God Himself.

Quote

3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.

Note that Jesus is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder and that the builder is God. Therefore, Christ is counted worthy of glory EQUAL to God.

Quote

In view of one of your previous posts regarding Jesus Christ being our mediator, may I invoke your consideration (i.e., tenses and grammatical construction) of I Timothy 1:5:  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ [Messiah], Jesus.”   Doesn't this verse seem to speak of the present tense reality of Jesus???  Does it in any way indicate a past tense concept?  Does it say our mediator is the concept of a historical figure who lived 2,000 years ago?

 
There is no present tense verb in the verse. In verse 6 Paul connects Christ's mediatorial work with what He has done in history,

Quote

who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,

It says that the mediatorial work of verse 5 is based in the fact that He “GAVE” Himself (past tense). Christ's mediatorial work is finished. It does not take two thousand years to make atonement. The Christ of heaven is indeed the same Person as the Christ of History. But His mediatorial work is finished. We are to “testify” to it as Paul said.

Again, there is no present tense verb in verse 5 and verse 6 bases His work as Mediator in a historical act. He “GAVE” Himself in history past. Btw, one anti-trinitarian here denies that Christ gave Himself. Gene, for instance says that the Father offered up our sacrifice. But the law of Moses required that the high priest offer up the sacrifice. Christ was both the High Priest which offered the sacrifice and the sacrifice which was offered. Paul said that it was Christ's own obedience that save us.

blessings,
thinker

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