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Hi TC,
Do you not know that to obey God you must obey His son the appointed Lord Jesus?
Do you have two or more gods?Polytheism has nothing to do with the ways of God.
God is one Jesus told us.Hi TC,
The fullness of deity DWELLED IN JESUS.Yet you think he is that Deity?
Do you dwell within yourself?
That would make you two.Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 30 2009,06:50) Quote (942767 @ July 27 2009,20:12) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,15:23) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,17:49) Hi TC: No, not equal to God:
Quote 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Yes, equal to God.
John 5:18
Quote “For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 10:30-33
Quote “I and the Father are one.” 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” TC27
Hi TC27:How does Jesus saying that God is his Father show that he is equal with God? Does what the Pharisees say supercede the scriptures that I have quoted showing that there is but “One God”?
Jesus said the he and His Father are one. Yes, they are one in the spirit. They are one in the purpose of the salvation of mankind. We who are born again Christian should be also one with them. This is what Jesus Prays to God:
Quote Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:And so, how does this make Jesus equal to God?
Finallly you use the following scripture indicating that this also shows that Jesus is equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” God dwells within the whole body of Christ from the head unto the toe by His Spirit. How does this make Jesus equal with God? He has been exalted to his position as head of the church, and so, every thing in heaven and earth is subject to him, but the scripture states that every thing does not include God.
No, not equal to God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,You say to me that what the Pharisees thought is not what needs to be taken into account. First of all, they were the Jews that claimed that Jesus was calling himself God. Second of all, if Jesus was not God, then why did he not correct them when they assumed that he was. To allow them to think such a falsehood would be blasphemy. Blasphemy is a sin, and since we know that Jesus is not sinful, then he could not have blasphemed. Therefore, it can be concluded that Jesus is God because he did not correct the Jews on their thinking that he was.
You also completely ignored my Colossians verse that states that all the FULLNESS of the DEITY lived in bodily form. You have no answer I take it.
TC27
Hi TC27:You say that Jesus did not correct the Pharisees when they indicated that Jesus was making himself equal to God but let's read these series of verses in context, and see what you think:
Quote Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
What do you think did he correct them or not? He said he could do nothing of hi
mself but only what the Father showed him. It seems to me that by this he was saying that he was not equal to God.What does the scripture that states “For in him all the fulness of diety dwells in bodily form” mean to you? I gave you my answer by saying that the Spirit of God dwells within the body of Christ from he head to the toe.
This is the scripture in context:
Quote Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him: Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
And so, what are you saying this means to you?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,10:55) Hi TC,
The fullness of deity DWELLED IN JESUS.Yet you think he is that Deity?
Do you dwell within yourself?
That would make you two.
Nick,You have an elementary way of thinking. Yes, I do dwell in myself. My spirit lives within my body. You have proven nothing.
TC27
HiTC,
Simplicity is the aim[2Cor 11]
Perversions of the truth such as trinity doctrines destroy beauty and harmony and simplicity.Marty said:
Quote Hi TC27: You say that Jesus did not correct the Pharisees when they indicated that Jesus was making himself equal to God but let's read these series of verses in context, and see what you think:
Quote
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
What do you think did he correct them or not. He said he could do nothing of himself but only that the Father showed him. It seems to me that by this he was saying that he was not equal to God.
What does the scripture that states “For in him all the fulness of diedty dwells in bodily form” mean to you? I gave you my answer by saying that the Spirit of God dwells within the body of Christ fromt he head to the toe.
This is the scripture in context:
Quote
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him:Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
And so, what are you saying this means to you?
Love in Christ,
MartyWow Marty,
Ok, so the fact that Jesus said all things that the Father does had to be shown to him was because HE WAS IN THE FLESH! This means that he had not been exalted yet! It isn't hard. He took on the flesh and made himself lesser as it says in Philippians 2. He was then axalted to the equality of the Father as it also says in Philippians 2. This means that while Jesus was on earth he depended on the Father to show him the ways, but only because HE COSE to bcome one of us. In choosing this he shows his sovereignty.
Oh and read my post to Nish about the Colossians verse.
TC27
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,11:33) Hi TC,
So PART of GOD became less than God and yet was God?
Give us back simplicity.
Nick,That is your problem. You expect everything to be simple and when you find something to be slightly complicated (which it isn't) you throw it out the window. Very sad.
TC27
Hi TC,
So being as a child is no longer possible when men present a god that is of three parts not taught in scripture?Hi TC,
When you meet the Lord your theologians will not be there to explain why you rejected scripture.Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 30 2009,07:31) Marty said: Quote Hi TC27: You say that Jesus did not correct the Pharisees when they indicated that Jesus was making himself equal to God but let's read these series of verses in context, and see what you think:
Quote
Jhn 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
Jhn 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
What do you think did he correct them or not. He said he could do nothing of himself but only that the Father showed him. It seems to me that by this he was saying that he was not equal to God.
What does the scripture that states “For in him all the fulness of diedty dwells in bodily form” mean to you? I gave you my answer by saying that the Spirit of God dwells within the body of Christ fromt he head to the toe.
This is the scripture in context:
Quote
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, [so] walk ye in him:Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
And so, what are you saying this means to you?
Love in Christ,
MartyWow Marty,
Ok, so the fact that Jesus said all things that the Father does had to be shown to him was because HE WAS IN THE FLESH! This means that he had not been exalted yet! It isn't hard. He took on the flesh and made himself lesser as it says in Philippians 2. He was then axalted to the equality of the Father as it also says in Philippians 2. This means that while Jesus was on earth he depended on the Father to show him the ways, but only because HE COSE to bcome one of us. In choosing this he shows his sovereignty.
Oh and read my post to Nish about the Colossians verse.
TC27
But you said that Jesus didn't correct the Pharisees. Did you not?Did Jesus not say, that His Father is greater then I.
John 14:28 …. I am going to my Father, cause my FATHER IS GREATER THEN I. Also in
Ephesians 4:6 ….one God and Father of all, who is above all, and in us all.
Pretty clear to me that only the Father is greater then the Son. Whether the Father gave Him all Authority or not. If my boss gives me Authority over His Business, does that make me the Boss? And so you can look at that, also with God, the Father and the Son Jesus Christ, of the Father. I also said before that just because Jesus was called God, means not that He is equal with the Father. God is only a tittle. To understand all we have to look at all Scriptures involved. And you know that those who are Baptized are called the Children of God or Sons of God. IMO I look at it like a Family Name–the Family of God and Jesus is and was the firstborn of all creation.
Rev. 3:14
Peace and Love Irene
Peace and Love IreneQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,05:00) Anti-trinitarians claim that only the Father is sovereign. Well guess what, in the book of Jude, Jesus is referred to as sovereign. Jude verse 4:
Quote 4For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jesus in this verse is called sovereign. Ok, so what does sovereign mean?
Definition taken from dictionary.com.
Quote –adjective
5. belonging to or characteristic of a sovereign or sovereignty; royal.
6. having supreme rank, power, or authority.
7. supreme; preeminent; indisputable: a sovereign right.
8. greatest in degree; utmost or extreme.
9. being above all others in character, importance, excellence, etc.Here we see that sovereign means of supreme rank, greatest in degree, and utmost. If anti-trinitarians are correct in saying that Jesus is not God then there is a problem here. This is because only God can be the utmost with supreme power. So how can Jesus be sovereign unless he is God? We do not have two sovereign powers. Just one, our Sovereign God that exists in three persons.
Yes, Jesus is The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit
He is the living and the dead
He is the flesh and the spiritEFJ………….There is a saying that seems to apply here , “strain out a gnat and swallow a elephant”. Even trinitarians don't agree with that statement. As Nick said not even the pope. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 30 2009,07:26) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2009,10:55) Hi TC,
The fullness of deity DWELLED IN JESUS.Yet you think he is that Deity?
Do you dwell within yourself?
That would make you two.
Nick,You have an elementary way of thinking.
TC27
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