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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2009,10:41) Hi TT,
He was GIVEN all power and he will hand the kingdom back to his God and our God.
He is not a PART of that God.
But until then He is God. Then God will be all in all.thinker
Thinker…….Scripture says GOD does all things after the council of (His) own WILL, Jesus plainly showed He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL but the WILL of HIM who sent HIM. This show He is under the authority of a higher source them himself. Can't you even get that? GOD the FATHER is the ONLY SOVEREIGN GOD, no one else is. ONLY (HIS) Will will be done by (ALL) if Jesus were sovereign He would have been doing (HIS) WILL not the Will of HIM who SENT HIM>. Man that trinitarian teaching has got you all screwed up brother. Dump that garbage and come out of that apostate teachings.
Peace and love……………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,15:15) Thinker…….Scripture says GOD does all things after the council of (His) own WILL, Jesus plainly showed He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL but the WILL of HIM who sent HIM. This show He is under the authority of a higher source them himself. Can't you even get that? GOD the FATHER is the ONLY SOVEREIGN GOD, no one else is. ONLY (HIS) Will will be done by (ALL) if Jesus were sovereign He would have been doing (HIS) WILL not the Will of HIM who SENT HIM>. Man that trinitarian teaching has got you all screwed up brother. Dump that garbage and come out of that apostate teachings. Peace and love……………………..gene
If Jesus is not sovereign then why did the Father command men to call Him “Lord?” The anti-trinitarian doctrine is showing you up. You once confessed that Jesus is Lord. Now you deny it. I have remained the same in my beliefs.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 27 2009,21:40) Hi TT,
So God, who is greater, commanded men to call His Son Lord.
So you have two Lords then?thinker
Personally I think Jesus was merely human, not a god, demigod or part of God himself (at least not anymore then all of creation may be concidered part of God). What Jesus was IMO was an example of what we as humanity can aspire to. A life of love and service to God and one's fellows. I don't think he was sent to pay off our sins, but rather to show us a life where we can pay off our own debts and live without creating new ones. If he was not as one of us then what true example would he be? If he was God himself well that is something none of us can aspire to or even relate to. Yet if he was simply human but a human with an evolved spirit and great knowledge, wisdom and intellect, that would be something we could possibly strive for. Jesus was not meant to be our God, but our role model and teacher.
Cato………I agree with most of what you said, But I do believe Jesus paid our sin debt though. He truely is our example in every way and if we are to approach The (ONLY GOD) we need to do it the way He did for sure. He is our master and teacher working to bring us to his full measure, It is His and the FATHERS desire we become exactly like Him. “Till we all come unto the full measure of Christ.”
peace and love………………..gene
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,15:23) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,17:49) Hi TC: No, not equal to God:
Quote 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Yes, equal to God.
John 5:18
Quote “For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 10:30-33
Quote “I and the Father are one.” 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” TC27
Hi TC27:How does Jesus saying that God is his Father show that he is equal with God? Does what the Pharisees say supercede the scriptures that I have quoted showing that there is but “One God”?
Jesus said the he and His Father are one. Yes, they are one in the spirit. They are one in the purpose of the salvation of mankind. We who are born again Christian should be also one with them. This is what Jesus Prays to God:
Quote Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:And so, how does this make Jesus equal to God?
Finallly you use the following scripture indicating that this also shows that Jesus is equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” God dwells within the whole body of Christ from the head unto the toe by His Spirit. How does this make Jesus equal with God? He has been exalted to his position as head of the church, and so, every thing in heaven and earth is subject to him, but the scripture states that every thing does not include God.
No, not equal to God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ July 28 2009,00:12) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,15:23) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,17:49) Hi TC: No, not equal to God:
Quote 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Yes, equal to God.
John 5:18
Quote “For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 10:30-33
Quote “I and the Father are one.” 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” TC27
Hi TC27:How does Jesus saying that God is his Father show that he is equal with God? Does what the Pharisees say supercede the scriptures that I have quoted showing that there is but “One God”?
Jesus said the he and His Father are one. Yes, they are one in the spirit. They are one in the purpose of the salvation of mankind. We who are born again Christian should be also one with them. This is what Jesus Prays to God:
Quote Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:And so, how does this make Jesus equal to God?
Finallly you use the following scripture indicating that this also shows that Jesus is equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” God dwells within the whole body of Christ from the head unto the toe by His Spirit. How does this make Jesus equal with God? He has been exalted to his position as head of the church, and so, every thing in heaven and earth is subject to him, but the scripture states that every thing does not include God.
No, not equal to God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyCan you tell me in what way Jesus is not equal to the Father if he sets on his right hand, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him having all authority and Power?
1 Cor 15:24-28 tells us that Jesus at this time is not subject to the Father, and in fact the scriptures tell us right now the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus!
By Jesus all things consist, (Col 1:17) and all things are upheld by the Word of his power, (Heb 1:3)
Then explain to me also how you are not equally human to your own Father.
Jesus is the “monogenes”, Only Son of God.
Why do you guys constantly seek to bring Jesus down to being less than he is?
Jesus is the Head of his body and it is Jesus who lives in his Body and that means he is God!
Jesus is God in the flesh.
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2009,19:30) Hi WJ,
So your plea for equality is proof you do not see them as one God?
On the contrary Nick.thinker
Worshippingjesus said to Marty:
Quote Hi Marty Can you tell me in what way Jesus is not equal to the Father if he sets on his right hand, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him having all authority and Power?
1 Cor 15:24-28 tells us that Jesus at this time is not subject to the Father, and in fact the scriptures tell us right now the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus!
By Jesus all things consist, (Col 1:17) and all things are upheld by the Word of his power, (Heb 1:3)
Then explain to me also how you are not equally human to your own Father.
Jesus is the “monogenes”, Only Son of God.
Why do you guys constantly seek to bring Jesus down to being less than he is?
Jesus is the Head of his body and it is Jesus who lives in his Body and that means he is God!
Jesus is God in the flesh.
Yes WJ!
If Marty is going to be consistent with what Paul said then God is not all in all now.thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,17:22) Quote (942767 @ July 28 2009,00:12) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,15:23) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,17:49) Hi TC: No, not equal to God:
Quote 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Yes, equal to God.
John 5:18
Quote “For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 10:30-33
Quote “I and the Father are one.” 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” TC27
Hi TC27:How does Jesus saying that God is his Father show that he is equal with God? Does what the Pharisees say supercede the scriptures that I have quoted showing that there is but “One God”?
Jesus said the he and His Father are one. Yes, they are one in the spirit. They are one in the purpose of the salvation of mankind. We who are born again Christian should be also one with them. This is what Jesus Prays to God:
Quote Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:And so, how does this make Jesus equal to God?
Finallly you use the following scripture indicating that this also shows that Jesus is equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” God dwells within the whole body of Christ from the head unto the toe by His Spirit. How does this make Jesus equal with God? He has been exalted to his position as head of the church, and so, every thing in heaven and earth is subject to him, but the scripture states that every thing does not include God.
No, not equal to God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyCan you tell me in what way Jesus is not equal to the Father if he sets on his right hand, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him having all authority and Power?
1 Cor 15:24-28 tells us that Jesus at this time is not subject to the Father, and in fact the scriptures tell us right now the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus!
By Jesus all things consist, (Col 1:17) and all things are upheld by the Word of his power, (Heb 1:3)
Then explain to me also how you are not equally human to your own Father.
Jesus is the “monogenes”, Only Son of God.
Why do you guys constantly seek to bring Jesus down to being less than he is?
Jesus is the Head of his body and it is Jesus who lives in his Body and that means he is God!
Jesus is God in the flesh.
WJ
Hi Brother WJ:You ask:
Quote Can you tell me in what way Jesus is not equal to the Father if he sets on his right hand, not beneath him, nor above him, but beside him having all authority and Power?
1 Cor 15:24-28 tells us that Jesus at this time is not subject to the Father, and in fact the scriptures tell us right now the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus!Who put Jesus in the position of authority? Isn't he God's Christ, and in this position doing the Father's will?
When he was in his ministry here on earth, he was teaching and obeying what God showed him, and therefore, he was not teaching his own thoughts. As Hebrews 1 states God was speaking to humanity through him, and now, he watches over this same Word that he taught and obeyed to perform it. He overcame sin and death through obedience to this Word and now, we also in his body by obeying his commandments learn to overcome through this Word and by his blood.
If you are saying that he is equal to God in the authority that has over humanity, yes in once sense. He speaks for God and no one can come to God except by confessing him as their Lord, bu
t God has given him this authority, and so, that would indicate that he is not equal to God. God is the creator and all wisdom comes from God.The scripture states:
Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. And Jesus said the following:
Quote Jhn 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And so, if he said his Father is greater, why do you insist that he is equal?
How does your analogy if my being equally human to my Father make him equal to God? God made man in his own image, and Jesus is the express image of his person. Notice, it was God who made man in His own image.
You say:
Quote 1 Cor 15:24-28 tells us that Jesus at this time is not subject to the Father, and in fact the scriptures tell us right now the Holy Spirit is subservient to Jesus! How is the Holy Spirit subservient to Jesus? He prays to the Father and the Father does what he asks. I also can pray to the Father in his name and the Father will do what I ask. No man can receive the Holy Spirit except they confess him as Lord. We are doing the will of our Father, and so, if we ask anything according to His will he will do what we ask.
You say:
Quote Jesus is the “monogenes”, Only Son of God. He is the Only Begotten Son of the Living God, and yet, by His own admission he said that he is not God. He said his Father was the “Only True God”, and that his Father was greater than him.
Yes, he is the head of the body and he lives within us when we keep his commandments, and these commandments came from God to humanity through him. He is worthy of all praise, and glory and honor, he obeyed these commandments without sin even unto death on the cross, but he did not teach and obey his own thoughts.
I for one am not making him less than he is, but I am not going to be swayed into teaching something that is not true. He is the Christ the Son of the Living God, the Only Begotten Son of God, and he is God in that he is the express image of God's person, and he is my Lord. He gave his life for me and I am doing my best to give my life for him.
And so, I don't see that he is equal to God in the sense that the Trinity doctrine teaches. Please let me know in what way is he equal to God. Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are saying.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Gene @ July 26 2009,19:15) Thinker…….Scripture says GOD does all things after the council of (His) own WILL, Jesus plainly showed He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL but the WILL of HIM who sent HIM. This show He is under the authority of a higher source them himself. Can't you even get that? GOD the FATHER is the ONLY SOVEREIGN GOD, no one else is. ONLY (HIS) Will will be done by (ALL) if Jesus were sovereign He would have been doing (HIS) WILL not the Will of HIM who SENT HIM>. Man that trinitarian teaching has got you all screwed up brother. Dump that garbage and come out of that apostate teachings. Peace and love……………………..gene
Gene,If only the Father is sovereign, then please explain Jude verse 4 to me.
TC27
Quote (Cato @ July 27 2009,10:15) Personally I think Jesus was merely human, not a god, demigod or part of God himself (at least not anymore then all of creation may be concidered part of God). What Jesus was IMO was an example of what we as humanity can aspire to. A life of love and service to God and one's fellows. I don't think he was sent to pay off our sins, but rather to show us a life where we can pay off our own debts and live without creating new ones. If he was not as one of us then what true example would he be? If he was God himself well that is something none of us can aspire to or even relate to. Yet if he was simply human but a human with an evolved spirit and great knowledge, wisdom and intellect, that would be something we could possibly strive for. Jesus was not meant to be our God, but our role model and teacher.
Cato,How can you say that Jesus did not pay for sins? The basis of the Bible is salvation from sin.
TC27
Quote (942767 @ July 27 2009,20:12) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 25 2009,15:23) Quote (942767 @ July 24 2009,17:49) Hi TC: No, not equal to God:
Quote 1Cr 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. Quote 1Cr 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman [is] the man; and the head of Christ [is] God. Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,Yes, equal to God.
John 5:18
Quote “For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.” John 10:30-33
Quote “I and the Father are one.” 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” 33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” TC27
Hi TC27:How does Jesus saying that God is his Father show that he is equal with God? Does what the Pharisees say supercede the scriptures that I have quoted showing that there is but “One God”?
Jesus said the he and His Father are one. Yes, they are one in the spirit. They are one in the purpose of the salvation of mankind. We who are born again Christian should be also one with them. This is what Jesus Prays to God:
Quote Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:And so, how does this make Jesus equal to God?
Finallly you use the following scripture indicating that this also shows that Jesus is equal with God:
Colossians 2:9
Quote “For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form.” God dwells within the whole body of Christ from the head unto the toe by His Spirit. How does this make Jesus equal with God? He has been exalted to his position as head of the church, and so, every thing in heaven and earth is subject to him, but the scripture states that every thing does not include God.
No, not equal to God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,You say to me that what the Pharisees thought is not what needs to be taken into account. First of all, they were the Jews that claimed that Jesus was calling himself God. Second of all, if Jesus was not God, then why did he not correct them when they assumed that he was. To allow them to think such a falsehood would be blasphemy. Blasphemy is a sin, and since we know that Jesus is not sinful, then he could not have blasphemed. Therefore, it can be concluded that Jesus is God because he did not correct the Jews on their thinking that he was.
You also completely ignored my Colossians verse that states that all the FULLNESS of the DEITY lived in bodily form. You have no answer I take it.
TC27
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